bosn111

Thoughts for trades: Hanifin - likely going to a U.S. team if they want more than a rental. TSN suggested Tampa may be interested as Sergachev is out long term. Not sure they have cap space to sign him long term, so would he be more than a rental for them? Tampa doesn’t have a 1st or 2nd round pick this year, or a first next year. As for players they would send back, not much of interest that they would be willing to move. Only interesting prospect really for me is Maxwell Crozier (6’2 RD from Calgary) in his first year pro after University. Not an offensive dynamo, but +/- looks positive so steady on D. Markstrom - only going to a contender. Why leave one rebuild for another unless there are deeper locker room issues? Likely a trade for picks / prospects but would be late 1st at best. Tanev - lots of contenders want him as a rental. Not sure which teams would look long term with injury history, style of play and age. Likely a small bidding war, but as a rental only, best would be late 1st round pick. Likely 2nd plus middling prospect/ lower roster player. TSN also said Florida looking for a middle 6 forward. What would the Panthers have for say Mangiapane? Lundell would be nice, but is he available? Could likely get Spencer Knight, currently buried and eating cap space. Not sure any prospects that are intriguing. Same draft issues as Tampa. Biggest problem with a Kadri trade is his contract. He will only waive to go to a contender, and how many contenders can take on 7 mil for the next 6 years? We can dream, but unlikely he moves any time soon unless he requests a trade. Huberdeau contract to output likely makes him untradeable at this time. Coleman and Weegar would be coveted by any team for the same reasons the Flames should keep them. I don’t believe you get enough return to replace their intangibles. Vladar is trade able but doesn’t likely bring back a significant return. Not sure anyone else is really a trade option at this time.

Different question about trading Weegar to Ottawa… if this happens before TDL, does this improve Ottawa enough that they climb the standings and drop out of a top 10 pick? What about Andersson in Buffalo or Arizona? Are these more trades for just before the draft? If so, this likely keeps the Flames close to playoff position so not top 10 draft pick. If you move Weegar, Hanifin, Andersson and Tanev, Kylington becomes your “Vet” with only a year and a half of experience. Who is your example for the young guys coming up? Stone as a coach is good, but he is not in the game. I don’t see the need to burn down the team all at once in order to improve. I don’t have a full answer, but other than Backlund, Andersson, Mangiapane and Hanifin, no one else has played more than 4 seasons for the Flames. The rest of the team has changed over the past 4 seasons which is basically scorched earth. How many coaches in that time frame? First year GM? Not sure how much more change is really going to be needed to be considered a full rebuild? I do think the team needs to make some moves, if only for asset management purposes, but I don’t think Weegar or Andersson should be considered unless massive overpay is offered. Just a couple of thoughts.

Even with Dougie on LTIR, they are still against the cap. Toffoli is UFA and Mercer is RFA looking for a big raise. The loss of Toffoli covers the Mercer raise, but how then do they replace Toffoli. This was the basis for the Mercer suggestion.

2 of those prospects that really stand out to me are Beecher and Sapovaliv. Bigger, strong centres. Based on the link from brewcrew, Sapovaliv sounds like he could be a good top 6, possible benefit for Huberdeau and either Kuzmenko or Sharangovich. Apparently likes to stand in front of the net, hard to clear out, which should give more space to his line mates. Beecher is more of a middle or bottom 6, but again a big C. Good at face offs and physical. If the goal is to use the 4th line to bring in young talent, this could bode well for Beecher. Other young centres that would be interesting for me: Mercer (NJ) Berniers (Sea) MacTavish (ANA) Johnstone (DAL) Any others are even less likely than those listed above.

The consideration for Kuzmenko being flipped is simply thinking aloud. It has nothing to do with wanting to move him right away, simply considering the possibility. Asset management appears to be improving with Conroy as GM, so it should be a consideration that he could be a moveable piece before his contract expires. If there is an offer or opportunity to move him for a piece that makes sense for the Flames, you take that for sure. It is not actively shopping him, but being open is not a bad thing. I honestly hope he clicks well with Huberdeau, but I also would limit any future contracts. 5-6 mil for 3-4 years is reasonable. More than 5 years and over 7 would be overpay for what he brings, even if he helps Huberdeau get back to form.

TD, Mercer is the C coming back. Meier was the monetary piece for cap space. Meier makes it easier to move Mangiapane / upgrade on Dube. The idea of a future line of Pelletier, Mercer, Coronato intrigues me. Huberdeau has Sharangovich to snipe for him, just need to figure out their C. Meier is expensive for third line but Meier, Backlund, Zary could be a thing of beauty. On D, it remains to be seen if Kylington can return to form and be consistent. If he can, then the loss of Hanifin is lessened. DeSimone was interchangeable with Gilbert and Osterle anyways. With both Solovyov and Kuznetsov getting call ups this year and looking reasonable in limited viewing, Gil’s and Oester likely expendable as well. So D with this proposal would be Weegar Anderson Kylington Tanev Solovyov Osterle (not ideal, but gets Solo some experience).

Macleod, a C was their other loss. Hanifin / Lindholm maybe? But who in return? Need to bring back cap, so maybe Meier (underperforming his contract) and Mercer as a young piece coming back (RFA after the season) add in a draft pick for Calgary to retain salary to make it work. Not sure there is really anyone else we would really want.

NJ lost Cal Foote RSD to leave, likely due to the world juniors with nothing really in the pipeline. Most AHL D are on AHL contracts. DeSimone is cheap RSD for them as a stopgap.

Thanks Sak, I couldn’t remember who the goalies were. Looking online there was the Ramo, Hiller, Ortio issue in 13/14 where all 3 left after the season. Broissoit was also in that year. I think that was the situation I was remembering. (The one you mentioned but adding 2 more tenders) Anyone else remember something similar?

I am not against the premise of competition between two goalies driving each other to be better. You see this regularly and it is beneficial because you know the player who ultimately stands out most is competitive and driven to be the best (important in big games). In order for this to work, the goalies need to have the skill already there that just needs to get pulled out through hard work. What you lose out on is the player who may have a drive to steadily improve, who learns to play solid positionally and using good technique rather than relying on natural skill. These goalies thrive under mentorship by an older goalie but fail if their counterpart is competing with the intent of being better. Both methods could be successful, it depends on what personality your goalie has. I recall a few years ago (can’t remember how many anymore) the Flames used the competition to drive each other. There were 3 or 4 competing and none got enough game time to really shine. I may be mistaken about the exact goalies but I think there was Broissoit, Gilles, Ortio and Rittich. Basically development stagnated and none really became what was expected. So it really depends on your goalies. I’m not sure competition in the AHL is the benefit for Wolf. He needs reps against better players, not a teammate trying to take his job in my opinion. Does not mean we don’t need another high potential goalie in the system, just not looking for a direct challenger, rather a replacement once Wolf moves up.

It has been said before that predicting goalies is likely the most difficult task to give anyone which makes drafting near impossible. Scout sees young goalie in a game. Standing on his head, stopping every shot that comes his way, ends up with a shutout. Come back a month later, same goalie let’s in 4 goals on first 10 shots including a very soft one before being pulled in the first period. Which game is the better representation of his skills and potential? Does the scout even come back for a third viewing after the stinker game? The Flames have had success drafting tenders, have had some bad luck, and some outright flops. Drafted Vernon and Kidd, both had solid careers though only 1 will possibly get into the hall of fame. Craig Anderson had a decent career, just not for the Flames. Broissoit and McElhenny were serviceable backups for teams not called the Flames. Ortio just never quite got there, Gilles and Krahn fell to injuries they couldn’t come back from and Irving played a few games but didn’t quite work out. So is Flames drafting goalies really that bad, or is it simply that difficult to assess goalies? Was there just bad luck? Was the development coaching inadequate? Based on the statistics compared to other teams, I would say Flames drafting goalies is average, though Wolf has a shot to make it above average. Doesn’t mean it is good or great, but how many teams have a much better record?

The signing of Rooney, as Cross said, was not at all related to Gaudreau leaving, and likely had nothing to do with Tkachuk leaving either. He was signed to compete for the 4th line. He was simply another body in the 4th line merry go round of the past decade. We’re there better options? Probably, but doesn’t mean they wanted to play for the Flames. Tkachuk said outright that he had been thinking of asking for the trade all of the previous season, maybe even longer. He didn’t like being told by Giordano to simmer down, and the coaching style of Sutter likely rubbed him wrong. Add in the microscope he was under in Calgary. He is an ideal player for Florida. Lifestyle, relative anonymity, less pressure. All he needs to do is play and after the game he can do whatever he wants. Greer is finally the 4th liner the Flames have been missing, Duehr should work well also. Ruzicka could help that line work well, even if he isn’t ideal for the role. Was Rooney the right signing? No, but someone thought he could be with the right coach. Didn’t work out, but was a relatively low cost failure.

JJ is a passionate fan who wants the team to get better. Nothing wrong with that. He honestly does a lot of thinking of ways to get better and he is not the only one. The biggest issue with this particular thinking, as I see it, is we fans have been burned too often by “the best goalie / D man / goal scorer not in the NHL”, who then comes over and is average at best, or a flop at worst. Many fans are tired of the narrative. This doesn’t mean that this option is not possible for success, just hasn’t worked out for the Flames the last however many times. When all fans stay level headed and respectful, great discussions occur. When emotions and jabs take over, the threads fall apart. Let’s keep things respectful as we are all fans.

JJ, your assessment is accurate. There are definitely issues that could be overcome but are difficult. I believe it would be easier/cheaper to move Markstrom than it was to move Monahan. At worst, Markstrom is a below average starter (see last season) or an experienced but expensive backup, but in a good season he could challenge for best goalie (not sure how likely this is now but glass half full I guess) while Monahan was an extreme injury risk whose stats and role had completely tanked over the previous couple of seasons. TD makes a good point about experience in net and games played, but… Kipper. There are many who believe that Wolf could be the next Kipper, even if Kipper had been 3rd string goalie with multiple AHL years at the time of acquisition, thus a little more seasoned. None of the 3 goalies really shone in pre-season. Wolf didn’t steal the spot from either Markstrom or Vladar, so here we are. I think a Markstrom trade really depends on Lindholm as the two are very close. Lindholm walking or being traded likely makes Markstrom more willing to waive his clause for another team. Lindholm re-signs and that becomes more difficult. There was a buyout comment made as an option for Markstrom, but that would make little sense. Had it been done this year, would have only saved 2 million on the cap due to actual salary for the next 2 years, then just over 2 mil in cap savings for the final year, followed by a nearly 4 million cap hit for nothing and then 2 more years of over 1 million cap used for nothing. After this season would be a little better, 4 years to pay out 2 years of work, first 2 years costing nearly 4 mil and last 2 over a mil per season. Small cap savings over last 2 contract years, but then 2 extra years of buyout. Just not very useful for what gets tied up. Final season buyout makes sense with over 4 mil in cap savings with only 1 year of cap penalties. Whole reason the contract was created that way. Not sure the right thing to do, but we may be dealing with another 2 years of pain unless Markstrom can bounce back before anything else happens. (Trade deadline next season likely best opportunity for trade due to upcoming buyout scenario/ real money being paid out.) Just something I was thinking about.

Sorry JJ, the inflammatory comment was not just aimed at you and still isn’t. More comments have been made towards you by others which are equally, if not more heated and inflammatory, something I did not want to happen, as per my opening paragraph. The rest of my comment, starting with a new paragraph, was to be discussion around why I disagree with your statement of the need for D being the biggest need, showing why I disagree. Also, as for Sandin Pellika, multiple teams skipped him so there must have been something that was less impressive. Was it his size? Maybe. Was it something he demonstrated during interviews? Maybe. I don’t know why but multiple teams skipped him in favour of other players, not just the Flames. I don’t have an in, so I don’t know why, but I trust there was a reason why multiple teams didn’t choose him. I agree the Flames need to draft more high end D, I also believe they need more high end F so picking one over the other doesn’t bother me. You can look at my previous posts and my preference is for bigger RHS RW or D with skill in drafts. Just because it is my preference doesn’t mean I am right, it is my opinion only. When I post, I try to make thoughtful, logical comments with supporting evidence. I believe I did that in my post. I try not to post just for the sake of increasing my post count. Hopefully that comes across to most.

I think that there is some transition plan, just not in all positions. I think Zary is to be the next #2 C, ultimately pushing Kadri to 3 when Backlund retires after this contract. Pelletier replaces Huberdeau eventually. The problem is that the Flames don’t have a proper 1C potential in the pipeline, so nobody to replace Lindholm. In G, Wolf is the intended successor, while D is more complicated. Is Poirier a Hanifin replacement? Solovyov replacing Tanev? Kuznetsov replaces Zadorov/Gilbert/Osterle? The issue is not a lack of plan, it is a lack of prospects to cover all roles.

Let us back off the personal attacks and arguing based on opinion. Being overly inflammatory is not helpful and that is going on a lot on here right now. JJ, you would have preferred Pellika over Honzek, got it. Not going to argue for or against. Maybe there was something in the interview process that teams didn’t like with Pellika. Don’t forget that Kylington was rated top 10 as I recall in his draft year and we got him second round. Don’t know why multiple teams passed on him, but that is somewhat telling in itself. Maybe Pellika insinuated he would only come over for NHL, otherwise staying home, thus not team control of development. Who knows. You can’t claim failure of Honzek due to injury. Need to wait until he is healthy and plays again to pass judgment. We currently have 3 potential future D men in the A with Poirier, Solovyov and Kuznetsov. We don’t know any of their ceilings, but they are all trending towards the NHL. At forward, beyond Coronato and Pelletier, we don’t really have any other top 6 F in the pipeline. (I don’t know much about Honzek so I won’t limit him and he is also part of the current discussion). Zary may eventually rise to top 6 but currently looks middle 6. Other possible middle 6 not currently on the team would be Kerins (maybe) and Ciona. The rest (Klapka, Stromgrem, Pospisil, Pettersen, Bell and Schwindt) are likely bottom 6 at best. This all ignores that only Tanev 33 and Osterle 31 on the D are on the wrong side of 30 right now. With Wolf, we have a potential future starter in net, but we could use more in the pipeline. So in truth, the Flames need more top end talent at every position in the pipeline, not just one position. However based on current team makeup, age by position and such, the Flames are more desperate for more high end Forwards over other positions (due to the need for more forwards in general). If both Lindholm and Hanifin walk after this season without being traded, then the formula only alters slightly age wise and positionally. We will have to see how everything turns out, but at this time, claiming the Flames need more D over F in the pipeline is a choice rather than an absolute as they need all positions.

TD: Ruzicka, Duehr and Hunt are all waiver eligible. My comment about prospects trying out for roles that suit them was for waiver free players. Ruzicka is 4th line because there are too many others ahead of him. Yes he should be middle 6, but who would he replace? For players like Solovyov, Kuznetsov, Zary, Ciona, Pospisil or even Poirier, they needed to be better in camp than Coleman, Backlund, Mangiapane, Zadorov, Coronato, Sharangovich etc. Next year, Hanifin and likely Tanev, and Kylington will be gone on D. Also a chance Zadorov, Gilbert and Osterle. So without trades or UFA signings, there are likely 2 or even 3 D spots open. I believe possibly 2 re-sign but with only Anderson and Weegar signed past this season, there is a big likelihood that change is coming. Less likely changes on F with Lindholm, Greer and Rooney being UFA, Dube Pelletier and Ruzicka RFA. The youth infusion at F is this season with Ruzicka, Duehr likely getting more game time, add in Coronato and possibly Pelts once he is healthy, Greer and Hunt also 26 and 27, and the team is instantly younger at F. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out over the year and the next few. I am guessing that Schwindt / Ciona are likely Coleman replacement in middle six in a few years, Zary likely moves up when Backlund retires.

A few things to remember about rosters, for those worried that longer serving Flames prospects didn’t get a shot over Hunt, Gilbert, Osterle etc. First, the shot was there for the taking. If prospects only played about the same as the above, then they didn’t take the job. Prove you are better, not just equal, in order to get the spot. If you are equal, but waiver eligible and the other guy isn’t, you go down. Second, I recall the brass saying prospects need to earn a spot they are suited for. Zary is middle / top 6, so no go for forth line. That left Hunt, Schwindt and Klapka fighting for the 12/13 spot. Add in Greer, and Hunt is fine as 13th F, let Klapka and Schwindt get more ice time in the A. This works for Solovyov as well. Gilbert and Osterle sharing the 6/7 spot. Get Solovyov the minutes in the A. No point having prospects mostly sitting in the press box.

What I like so far is that the team as a whole seems to be playing faster. Quicker skating, quicker passing. Less sitting and watching the play materialize and more moving to space to create a pass for the puck carrier. Hopefully that continues and isn’t just due to the lesser competition.

Turned it on just in time to see the start of PP 3 and a nice goal by Huberdeau. Gilbert just rag dolled Irwin in a fight after flattening Hoglander. Good passing and pressure by the Flames, though it looks like most of the Flames starters getting early game in while few Canuck regulars playing so mostly NHL vs mostly AHL. Fairly expected results.

I agree for the most part TD. The difference is that I have more questions about both Tanev and Kylington than any other D (including Osterle). My question about Tanev is around his health. Due to his style of play and injury history, what does his body have left? He has only ever played 1 full season (it was for Calgary). At 33, most seasons having lost at least a quarter of games to injury says a lot. Would he sign for 3 mil or less in order to account for average time spent hurt? I don’t think he would. He has 1 more contract before 35, so I would think he wants 1 more good pay day. 4.5 x 3 likely the ask, even if 3 - 3.5 x 2 would be more reasonable. Kylington had 1 good NHL season and then missed a full season for personal reasons. Then missed medical to open training camp. Will he be the same player as he was? Will he prove himself this season? If he struggles, or at least shows no better than 3rd pair, I can’t see him get offered more than 2 mil. It is up to him what success he has. Zadorov and Hanifin are what they are. We know what we get with them. So it is really a wait and see what happens for D contracts.

TD, I don’t think it is re-signing Hanifin at all cost. As I posted earlier, of the 8 roster D, only 2 have contracts past this season. Not all will be re-signed. But if you don’t re-sign any, and prospects are not ready yet, then you need to sign FAs to have a roster, likely meaning over paying. Also an essentially brand new D core. As long as Hanifin’s contract is reasonable, then you bring him back, but not at 8mil + for 6+ years. I am also fine bringing Zadorov back unless he falls apart this season. Unless Kylington kills it this year, I don’t think he gets re-upped, but that is a gut feeling. Anyways, Connie has decisions to make.

Until we see more information, we can’t really suspect why Kylington didn’t clear medical. It could be as simple as he flew in last night and was jet lagged. Could be that his O2 levels are not good enough as Calgary is at higher elevation than most cities in Sweden. There is no mention of suspension due to league drug policy so it is likely a smaller issue this time around. He is at camp, just not cleared today. Hopefully cleared soon so he can get up to speed.

I am definitely not blaming Conroy as I agree that BT, with input from Sutter, left the Flames in this mess. I can’t give Connie a complete pass yet as Osterle and Sharangovich are Conroy adds. As long as Osterle can pitch in once in a while as 7D, I have no complaints. Sharangovich May turn out to be a steal at 3.1, but we don’t know yet. If he turns out to be bottom 6 rather than top 6, then the contract was too high. As such, I am holding judgement on Connie for the first half of the season.