bosn111

Good look for both Pelletier and Valimaki to be out early. Gives the appearance at least that they are hungry. Also like that Weegar is on the ice early to start getting ready. You kind of expect this from Lucic and Lewis being role veterans.

Someone asked about PTOs and who might be offered one. Players who the Flames should invite on a PTO to push the other players are (if they don’t want to sign outright yet): PK Subban. Sounds like he is being snubbed by most teams. Doesn’t hurt to give him a tryout with no obligation to sign. Tyler Motte. Cheap grinder who won’t shine offensively but can still help a team. Evan Rodrigues. May show chemistry on the PTO to prove he should be signed. Sonny Milano for the same reason. Derick Brassard is an older grinder, but could be an inexpensive add for 1 year on the 4th line. Michael Stone at league minimum is still the perfect 7th Dman unless the team wants to rotate a couple of young guys. Alex Chiasson is a former Flame, still serviceable in the bottom 6 at 31. RHS RW. Couple of young long shots who may be used to fill the AHL if they tryout but don’t stand out: Daniel Sprong, Brendan Perlini, Zach Senyshyn, Just some thoughts. PTOs are free. No harm no foul to cut the player if they don’t earn a contract offer.

Valimaki had an injury a couple of years ago where he basically missed a full season of development during prime development time. This may have had a more significant effect then most thought, but I think there is more than that. I have seen a few reports and rumours that the issue is more between the ears with respect to ego rather than injury. He is definitely not the only player with this issue, but it seems to be having an impact on Valimaki. The biggest evidence for this is Sutter. We know that Sutter will only play a young guy ahead of vets if he is lights out talented and/or works so hard every day both on and off the ice that he can’t be ignored. Since Valimaki has not shown the super high end skill (Makar or Hughes types), and Sutter refuses to play him, then the issue appears to be effort based. I believe that Valimaki needed the Kylington plan. Spend 2 years+ in the minors to learn how to be a pro and mature as an individual before getting the luxuries that come with an NHL roster spot. Once the maturity and hard work kicked in for Kylington, he stepped up and earned his roster spot. Valimaki was essentially gifted his spot initially. Now that he is being forced to mature and earn the spot back he isn’t happy. (Somewhat similar to the Puljujarvi situation of the past few years). If he doesn’t respond to the challenge of the tough love and expects a roster spot because he was drafted in the first round, then by all means trade him. If he learned from the Kylington example and will be coming into camp stronger and having put in the work, then he may have a shot. Maybe getting traded due to his attitude would be the shock he needs. Maybe another team would just give him a spot and he is good enough to have a decent career. But if he wants to be anything better than a bottom pair D who can fill in higher, he will need to put in the work. The NHL is no longer a league where skill alone will guarantee success. Players need to actually work off ice as well. No more cigarettes and steak before each game.

What does trading Mony and a conditional, lotto protected 1st round pick, signing Kadri, getting, and then signing, Huberdeau have to do with Weegar? You are making a number of assumptions with absolutely no logical reasoning. First there is no evidence that Huberdeau or Kadri will be bought out before the end of their contracts (they were not structured in a way that this makes any sense). Unless you are psychic, you are using conjecture at best. Second, I will be happy for Monahan if he gets back to 30 goals. He is simply not trending that way. It is great to hope the best for him, but he is 3 seasons away from a 30 goal season. He has been a - player the past 3 seasons and never played a physical game. He has always had an elite shot, but has undergone 2 wrist surgeries. 2 herniated discs repaired, groin surgery and both hips don’t help the fact that he was already on the slower side of skating. You can point to many players who remained effective after one or 2 surgeries, regardless of severity, though few remained at the top of their games. Monahan has had 7 surgeries in 4 years. Monahan also only has 1 year left under contract. If he doesn’t hit 20 goals, he isn’t worth his cap hit at over 6 mil so many would complain about that. Moving him allowed the team to sign Kadri, who will likely be more effective for the role. Lindholm is better than Monahan so Mony would be 2nd line at best, (without Kadri) and still wouldn’t have the playmaker play driving wing he needs to be successful. Weegar, whom this thread is about, is a great addition to the Flames D corps. He pushes Hanifin to second pair where he should be. He also makes 2 of Hanifin, Kylington and Valimaki expendable IF he signs an extension before the season starts.

I guess I worded it poorly in my mentioning the 2 year window. It is 2 years with the current group as is. After 2 years, changes will occur for certain due to contracts which will potentially extend the window to 4 years. Depending on the moves made, and how various prospects turn out (Wolf for example) that window could even be bigger. The Flames may be perennial contenders with the right moves. I am not psychic so I can only point out what is currently on the table. Honestly it will be interesting to see what happens in Edmonton post McDavid. He is the big draw for Free Agents to play there. Without him, what is the pull? Calgary has shown the desire to always want to compete and will go after big targets to attain their goal. This is a draw for players who want to succeed.

I don’t see the mortgage of the future by trading away firsts like candy for 5 years from now. The Flames as of yesterday morning were holding 5 first round picks over the next 4 years and based on conditions of the Monahan deal, they still have 4 in the next 4 years and the only one available to trade, due to the conditions is 2023 which likely won’t move. Flames have rounds 1,2,4,6,7 in 23, 1,2,3,4,6 in 24, and 1,2,3,5,6,7 in 24. That is still plenty of picks to work with. Right now, the Flames have 2 good years (with a Weegar extension) before needing to worry much about NEEDING to replace players on extend contracts. Weegar is the only really needed extension as only he, Lucic, Lewis, Valimaki, Vladar, Meloche and Mackey are up for contracts next year. Weegar is the only real impact player on the list, and if Vladar doesn’t sign, Wolf should be ready as backup. Lucic will either take huge pay cut to stay, or he is gone. All others are limited raises at best or are let go. 2 years away is the big one with Backlund, Lindholm, Toffoli, Dube, Rooney, Pelletier, Hanifin, Tanev, Zadorov, Kylington, Schwindt, Klapka, Kuznetsov, Solovyov and Wolf all due for new contracts. A 5 year extension for Weegar significantly lessens the impact of that contract heavy summer. Lindholm likely gets a solid raise, Backlund pay decrease as he will be 35. Hanifin likely gets a raise but if asking too much, I see him traded. If Toffoli and Kylington really step up, they could need significant raises, if not then minor raises only at best. Tanev likely takes a pay cut due to age. In 3 years, Mangiapane is the only current expiring contract. Play will dictate raise or not. For prospects you have Zary, Kerins, Nikolayev, And Poirier. A couple of possible future big team players, but don’t know when. 4 years are currently Andersson and Markstrom. Andersson will be 29, right in his prime, while Markstrom will be past prime at 36. Based on contracts, I would say that the Flames currently have a 2 year win now window. In order to keep Lindholm, you need prospects to replace Hanifin, Backlund, Toffoli, Tanev, and Kylington or have above players take cuts or limited raises depending on players. If the Flames can extend Lindholm, who will be 29, and not downgrade too much from the other 2 year FAs then the second window is 4 years. Who knows what will happen at that point, but any solid first rounder picked in the next 2 years should be close to stepping in by that time, current prospects should all be stepping up by then or likely won’t make the big club. It is basically impossible to consider anything beyond that as there are too many other variables at play. So 2 year window for sure, possible 4 year window. Other than that is anyone’s guess.

I like the sounds of Thornton and Sova. Livanavage sounds too one dimensional offence on PP. Thornton sounds like he is almost as skilled on PP with fewer warts defensively. I think the German could be offered a PTO as there is no harm in it. Looks like he is signed in Germany for next season. As far as Berezowski goes, Philips is already being overlooked due to size, not sure he would get any better treatment. As you say, Mange had more of a bite like Fleury which is needed when you are smaller unless skills are absolutely elite. If we offer PTOs to Rossmy, Biasca, Thornton and Sova, knowing that only Biasca is not under contract for next season and could go AHL (as I read it), it could be interesting.

JJ, I have no issues with PTOs, whether for NHL, AHL or even ECHL. I don’t personally follow Junior or international hockey enough to really know who to target or for which level. My suggestion for Biacsa was simply based on the game he was playing vs. Canada. I was curious who drafted him and saw he was un-drafted so tried to read further. He doesn’t look like a top 6 player, more a D/energy specialist. Still worth a look as he would be a free acquisition. Do you have some suggestions of who you think should get a PTO? Who are some over looked players who you feel should get a look on a PTO?

You are correct TD, need to wait another year. I thought it was 2 years of Major Junior or 20 years old, but it is 4 years. Interesting that there MAY be a loophole to the transfer agreement as it relates to DRAFTED players. Since he went un-drafted in 2 drafts, I don’t think the agreement covers him. But I don’t know. Could the Flames sign him to an ELC and loan him back to Halifax? Maybe someone else has a better understanding of this stuff. Just some thoughts.

Biacsa of the Swiss went un-drafted. 19 year old 6’1 183 defensive C. Apparently his first draft year was 2021. Any interest in bringing him to the Wranglers? He plays for Halifax in the Q. Low risk if he doesn’t pan out, but could be a good future bottom 6 defensive C for free. At worst an AHL player for a while.

I think Kuznetsov is most likely in the same category as Wolf, Pelletier and Coronato as far as likely to make the NHL. The difference being the likely hood that he is more of a defensive bottom 4 D man than a top pair. This is not a knock on him, just more his style. Personally I think player development has improved over the past 5 years and it shows with the number of drafted players playing for the Flames who were not top picks and have worked their way up through the system in recent years compared to previous years. Andersson and Kylington both drafted 2nd round, spent time developing with the Heat, now making impacts on the big club. Mangiapane was a 6 round pick with time in the AHL, significant impact at fwd. With Ruzicka (4 round pick) knocking on the door, and other prospects named in this thread likely still a couple of years away, the development path looks good. I think Phillips is stuck without a real shot due to size, but who knows. Zadorov, Tanev, Hanifin and Kylington are all up for contracts in 2 years. That is likely where we see Kuznetsov and/or Poirier step up. Solovyov also has a shot at bottom pair in a few years. While development is not top in the league, I agree that it is more due to a low number of draft picks, not quality of staff.

I have never been on the “need to trade Hanifin” side of things and I am still not. Over the past few years fans have said to trade Hanifin because we have Valimaki who will be better anyways, and now Kylington will apparently improve more than Hanifin while costing less to re-sign. This all coming along with the idea that Hanifin has the higher trade value and apparently the fact that Kylington and Hanifin are the same age, Hanifin showed growth and improvement last season and D tend to take longer to peak. So Valimaki couldn’t even hold a spot on the Flames and got outplayed on the Heat by other D, has not shown he can beat out Kylington, Zadorov or even Mackey let alone Hanifin. Hanifin does make bone head mistakes sometimes but he is much more consistent than Kylington. He plays more minutes and in more situations so he has more opportunities for the mistakes to be amplified. With Weegar now able to eat more minutes, Hanifin can focus less on being the main guy and just play. If Kylington shows more improvement and plays better than Hanifin, then how can any reasonable person say that he will be easier / cheaper to re-sign? Both UFA and able to test the market… Market based on stats so the better stats get the better contract. Now I am not against trading Hanifin. He likely brings back value in a trade, and with Weegar able to play top line LD, and Kylington able to play middle pair, that makes it easier to move him, though not necessary. He would need to bring back significant pieces (plural) or at least 1 equal value player for the trade to make sense. Hanifin is currently better than Kylington, so we are currently better having Hanifin above Kylington. This may change, but it may not. Many people point to the late season regression from Kylington after a hot start. We also need to consider the Tanev effect. How much of Kylington’s success actually came from playing with Tanev? Valimaki at 23 could still show dramatic improvement, but he has fallen down the depth chart. With Kuznetsov, Poirier and Solovyov now on his heels, will he get passed further? We still have questions on D, but these are now good questions to have rather than what we had in the past.

Weegar / Andersson Hanifin / Tanev Zadorov / Meloche Mackey or Weegar / Andersson Kylington / Tanev Zadorov / Meloche Mackey Or Hanifin / Andersson Zadorov / Weegar Kylington / Tanev Meloche Klingberg is RD and would improve the D, but doesn’t help the left side. The only RD that Klingberg really replaces would be Meloche. If you get Klingberg then likely Weegar / Andersson Hanifin or Kylington / Tanev Zadorov / Klingberg Meloche So you are still trading at least 2 LD, 3 if you sign Klingberg.

JJ, the surplus D comment is the fact that we have 9 D signed to NHL contracts who all require waivers plus Kylington to be signed who would also need to clear waivers in order to be assigned to the AHL team. Gilbert is a 2 way contract and likely clears waivers. Mackey might clear waivers or might get claimed, likely equal odds. Kylington, after last season, would 100% get claimed on waivers. Valimaki likely 80% claimed, possibly higher. Meloche likely claimed from waivers as well. You, like many others, hate losing assets for nothing. So at this time, in order to avoid losing D to waivers, they should be traded instead. If you trade Valimaki, Kylington, even Mackey and get back Waiver exempt D like those I mentioned yesterday, Thompson etc, then you are in a better spot, especially if it is a package deal using Monahan, Dube, Lucic and/or Hanifin to also upgrade our FW lines. That would be good asset management. Valimaki likely needs to be traded, he was already annoyed at the team this year, so fresh start elsewhere. Kylington or Hanifin should be traded, they fill similar roles. Hanifin more trusted in multiple situations, Kylington still growing his game and likely higher offensively. Mackey is either alternating 6/7 D with Meloche or gets traded. I don’t think anyone is looking to just gut the D to benefit the Fwds, but we can’t let 2-3 go on waivers with no return.

Both Weegar and Huberdeau can sign 8 years because they are under contract and we’re traded. They would be getting extensions while Gaudreau could only do 7 as a UFA. It will be very telling if they want the 8 years or less (both players and team). Based on age, they might want shorter to be able to sign again before 35. We know that most over 35 contracts are significantly lower than under 35. That said, if they take 8 years because they prefer the stability, then I am all for it.

I love how Huberdeau was asked about Lindholm scoring 42 goals last year and he responded “hopefully he gets 50 with me!”. Sounds very positive to me!

If we look at the Flames D now and in the future with depth charts, it may help consider trades this summer and moving forward. Including RFA unsigned. Left side Weegar 28 1UFA Top 4 Hanifin 25 2UFA Top 4 Kylington 25 RFA Mid pair Zadorov 27 2UFA Bottom 4 Mackey 25 1RFA Bottom pair Valimaki 23 1RFA Bottom pair (current) Gilbert 25 2UFA 7th at best Kuznetsov 20 2RFA Future bottom 4?waiver exempt Poirier 20 3RFA Future mid pair? waiver exempt Solovyov 22 2RFA Future bottom 4?waiver exempt Poolman 26 1UFA minors Right side Andersson 25 4UFA Top 4 Weegar 28 1UFA Top 4 Tanev 32 2UFA Top 4 Meloche 25 1RFA Bottom 4 DeSimone 27 2UFA minors Others may have more insight into expectations of young D but from what I understand about them: Valimaki was expected to be a left side Andersson, so far he is not close to reaching that. Mackey left side Andersson lite. Does everything well but nothing exceptional. Good for bottom 4 maybe. Kuznetsov is a young Zadorov. More D minded with a bit of a mean streak. Makes sense why Zaddy signed for 2 more years. Likely replacement in the works. Poirier looks more offensive similar to Kylington. At least 2 years needed in minors. Solovyov looks more D focused. Another Zadorov replacement? What the Flames really need right now is to get a young AHL prospect RD who projects as a Tanev replacement in 2-3 years. Mid pair, D focused RS. If Weegar can sign 6 years, Hanifin might be able to be moved. I don’t know when to move Hanifin as he is currently in the sweet spot, but don’t want to lose him to UFA for nothing if Poirier isn’t ready yet. Currently Weegar / Andersson Hanifin / Tanev Zadorov / Meloche Mackey In 2 years (anticipating Weegar extension with no other changes) Weegar / Andersson Poirier / ?? Kuznetsov / ?? Solovyov Right side D needs attention for prospects. Valimaki, Kylington should be used to address this. I like Hanifin but if Kylington signs for 3 or less for 3+ years, I am fine trading Hanifin for value. What are some 2 years out RD prospects we could aim for? Lassi Thomson from Ottawa? Mukhamadullin from Jersey? Lundmark from Winnipeg? I don’t know. Anyone else have thoughts?

Pelletier and Poirier are both from Québec.

From the statements made, both Weegar and Huberdeau stated that it has only been a few days since the trade so they are still processing the surprise. They did both say that they are looking forward to playing with the team. They also both stated that they are open to signing extensions with the Flames if the fit is right for both sides. Both also stated no rush as they are both under contract. For those who don’t speak French, “J’ai hâte de commencer avec l’équipe” means “I am really looking forward to starting with the team” more or less. So it is looking positive at this time.

I agree TD, both Mangiapane and Toffoli are shooters who would benefit from a solid playmaker/passer like Huberdeau. I think Toffoli will play top line with Huberdeau and Lindholm as he is RHS. This should bump his stats for sure. If he doesn’t work out there, then only option becomes trading him, Mangiapane scored 35 primarily with Backlund and no real consistent RW as I recall. Backlund is not a great playmaker but is solid all around with strength defensively. Getting a playmaker C or RW would boost Mangiapane’s stats further. Dube for me is a conundrum. I really like his attitude to the game, his drive, his speed… but he doesn’t cause others to be better, his passing isn’t great and he doesn’t have an amazing shot. He also doesn’t have the size/strength to be extra physical. The team has had a lot of similar players in the past who play the game the right way, just something isn’t clicking and can’t quite figure out why it isn’t working. Some players that come to my mind as similar are Boyd, Byron, Dawes, Kobasew, Lombardi, Raymond and others. All talented and put in effort but something just didn’t click fully. You like them and feel there is more to come for them, but the more just doesn’t ever seem to arrive. At 24, Dube may still breakout, but I don’t know if the Flames have the patience to wait for it to happen. (See Bennett).

Due to injuries and surgeries causing Monahan to have horrible seasons, and his cap hit over 6 million, his trade value has disappeared and his value to the Flames is limited. I refuse to ignore what he has done for the Flames in the past, I believe he is a genuinely good person and wish him the best, but need to consider the realities of Hockey life as a professional. Ideal situation would be that Monahan has a bounce back season, plays second line, puts up good offensive numbers and makes trading him in season difficult. Sadly this is not the likely outcome. All of Monahan‘s best seasons were played with Gaudreau. Monahan had, and it may return, an elite shot which scored many goals. However away from Johnny, he had far less success and the rest of his game was good but nothing close to his shot. He doesn’t thrive on defence, doesn’t drive play, doesn’t really cause players around him to be better. Lindholm does more of the game better than Monahan and also has a great shot. So at best we see Monahan as a 2C when at his best. Without someone else driving the play and getting him the puck in the slot, I just don’t see a resurgence from him that brings the value that the team needs. I think he could do well with a player like Pelletier on his line, supporting the young playmaker by giving him a good target. The issue is that Monahan was never fast and his recent surgery may slow him even more. I believe he has more value for a rebuilding team than a team looking to be competing in the playoffs. His experience helps young guys, but even though not old, his skills have fallen off and aren’t where they used to be. He scored more goals in his rookie season than the last 2 combined. Again this is nothing against Monahan as a person but the Flames need to look in a different direction. His cap hit can be better used elsewhere and there is almost no chance he gets a raise on his next contract unless they play him with Huberdeau and he nets 40-50 goals (35 would be a career high). Again Lindholm hit 42 last year with Gaudreau compared to Monahan’s best 34 so I don’t see that happening anytime soon. If another team wants Monahan, and offers anything reasonable in return, I think the Flames need to make that trade. I would be ecstatic for him if he outplays the trade on his next team, similar to Bennett. In my opinion it is time for the Flames to go in a different direction than Monahan (and have been saying this since before his NTC kicked in so it is not anything new).

Gaudreau 115 Tkachuk 104 219 Huberdeau 115 Weegar 44 159 Difference is 60 NOT 100 (Basic addition) Even if we lose Kylington 31 that is still 91 points difference. It is also likely that if Toffoli or Mangiapane, who are both shooters, play with the playmaker Huberdeau, their points will increase. Whoever takes over for whoever moves up will also get points. Likely 20-30 point increase at least. The replacement gets same as them, around 50 points then the difference is only 10-20 points different, not over 100. Data works when you include all likely data, not just picking and choosing. Don’t forget Tkachuk benefitted from Gaudreau so others will benefit from Huberdeau.

Where did I say he would stay here? I only said he has not shown or said anything about wanting to go to Montreal which was your statement. You stated he was gone to Montreal in UFA next year full stop. People are arguing with you because you made an unsubstantiated claim. Maybe Huberdeau will want to go to Montreal, maybe he extends with Calgary, maybe he goes elsewhere. There are many options.

Just being from Quebec doesn’t mean he wants to play for Montreal. Just because Dubois wants to, doesn’t mean Huberdeau does. I have seen nothing where he made that statement. Making assumptions based only on where they are from with no other evidence makes no sense. Fox, Gaudreau and Tkachuk had all made statements about family and home on multiple occasions. Huberdeau has not talked about the Habs to my knowledge.

Where is there anything that says Huberdeau wants to go to Montreal? The unhappiness is only that his long time tenure and loyalty to Florida ended with his quick trade from the team without any notice that him being traded was even possible. It is the lack of communication from Florida that annoyed him, nothing at all to do with Calgary.