bosn111

I didn’t get to watch a lot of the tourney, so relying on the eyes of others. I believe I heard on multiple occasions that Stromgren has a ton of speed. As long as he is defensively responsible, this could be a future counter to McDavid and other speedsters in the league. Good energy for 3rd or 4th line.

So based on Conroy’s comments, the showing of young prospects at the tourney, the lack of cap space, the lack of trades, and the glut of NHL D already in place, we are unlikely to see any PTOs at camp, especially not Bear on D. Cap friendly shows the Flames 200k over the cap with 12F, 8D and 2G. They likely need to send Gilbert down just to get under cap. This includes Kylington in the lineup, Pelletier, Coronato, Duehr and Ruzicka as well. No cap space for Wolf as 3G, and no spare F. Basically Connie needs to make some kind of a trade to clear cap space. The only returning players without trade protection that would free up cap space are Vladar, Kylington, Zadorov, Andersson, Dube and Lindholm. Andersson likely the only untouchable though the returns on most of the others would likely not be enough (Lindholm) or leave holes to fill with less effective players. Vladar is the biggest question due to Wolf. Moving Zaddy and bringing in Bear could make sense. Lower cap hit due to late signing and fairly equal skill levels? Move Vladar and use Wolf, hoping he is ready? Those are the only options that really make sense to me.

Ok, been away and busy for a while, know I have missed a bunch of discussions on various topics, but wanted to spit ball a little here. Recent news from other teams shows PTO s being signed by established, though mid to low tier players over the past few days. From Daily Hive yesterday, the Flames are still considering bringing in a younger PTO or 2, but want to leave spots for younger players to compete for. Is it likely that Conroe is waiting on the prospects tournament to see if the young guys are hungry out of the gate? If they push hard right from the outset of the tournament, it shows they are really wanting to succeed? On the other hand a slow start means bring in PTOs just in case? Even though the Flames have a glut of D, I would be ok inviting Ethan Bear. At forward Puljujarvi may not be a bad option. Anaheim, Chicago, Buffalo, can all take on cap hits without sending anything back, could there be opportunities there? Would Anaheim move Drysdale+ for Hanifin? Potential for known commodity type move? This could accelerate their rebuild. just a couple thoughts.

I don’t think there really is a current core to build around. There are multiple pieces who could be used as a core, but it depends on what kind of team you are building. Fast, transition team: Huberdeau, Mangiapane, Hanifin, Weegar, Anderson, Dube, Kylington. We also have prospects that fit this style. Puck control, opportunistic, D focus: Backlund, Lindholm, Tanev, Coleman, Markstrom. Kadri isn’t a particular style, he will always be himself and do his own thing regardless of team style. I just don’t think the team has a specific make up. Treliving was handcuffed somewhat by Sutter wanting a very different style and so the mix of players wasn’t/ isn’t what was needed. I think that, if Connie wants the fast, transition team, that win or lose it will be exciting to watch. The Sutter style, physical, defensive control is only fun if you are winning. If the Hanifin rumours are true, trade him to get a good position, quick skating, puck moving D and re-sign Stetcher. If you can save cap, and get a draft pick as well, then great. If Backlund gets moved, that is said, because he has been a good soldier and has done good things for the team. Any player coming back would need to be mid 20s with good speed. Expect a middle 6 level player on a good contract. If you move Lindholm, not sure who would replace him. So really, Andersson for me is the only real “core” piece. All others play important roles, but are only as important as the system they play in requires.

I find it difficult to judge Treliving directly based on the last few years. If rumours are true that ownership handcuffed him in multiple ways including forcing Sutter on him as coach, then how do you make a solid analysis? As a GM, there are really 2 choices to make. 1: build a team with players who fit a style you want to see played, then hire a coach to work with those players. Or 2: Hire a certain coach with a known style / system and go get players that work for the coach. Looking at players that Treliving has acquired / signed, his intention has always been option 1. To build the team based on the players. Finding the right coach has admittedly been a challenge for a variety of reasons. Coach ego, coach history of lacking empathy / racism, owner interference etc. Players like Hanifin, Huberdeau, Weegar, Coleman, Lindholm, Kadri, Stetcher, Markstrom etc. have never been defence first, grind it out system players. Some are very defensively responsible, but I would argue that (adding in Mike Smith and others), Treliving was looking to build more of a hybrid possession / transition team who spent little time in the D zone. The problem is that coaches haven’t been able to consistently implement this style (see no coach lasted long enough and they each caused problems). With Sutter, he refuses to use players as intended, instead forcing players into his style, or else they are in the doghouse. He has also forced Treliving to get players to fit Sutter style hockey (Lewis, Ritchie etc.) rather than who are likely the best players available. Go get me vets who have nothing left to prove rather than me playing hungry young prospects who will likely make mistakes sort of scenario. (Yes vets made similar mistakes without accountability while youngsters just got punished). What happens going forward with Treliving is anyone’s guess. I believe he is a very good GM who didn’t get the results expected, for a variety of reasons. He likely will have significant success in the future, but I am not sure that it will be with the Flames. I hear Pittsburg, and possibly Philly, needs a new GM.

Defence is a different question altogether for the Flames. They only have Weegar and Andersson signed beyond next season. They will be forced to make some decisions, but again I think it comes down to what happens with Sutter and / or Treliving. Sutter stays on, look for the team to extend Zadorov, likely sign Stone again and possibly move to get another D first vet. I remember a quote from Sutter early in the season when asked about a defender scoring a goal and his response was along the lines of his job is to defend, not score. If Sutter is gone, and Treliving stays, you likely see Hanifin re-upped for a bit more than optimal, long term, but not a major cap killer. He likely gets Weegar money +, so in the 6.5-7 x 7 range. I worry more about the next Tanev contract due to injury than Hanifin. It also depends on how they feel about guys like Kuznetsov and Poirier. If both Sutter and Treliving go, I can see Hanifin getting traded, hopefully for significant return, and who gets brought in depends on the coach and GM. I just see too many questions around coach and GM to really consider what will happen player wise.

Everyone knows that there needs to be big changes in Calgary for multiple reasons. The Flames cannot choose to stay put, it simply is not an option. Unless there is a massive increase to the cap, which isn’t likely, the Flames do not have the cap space currently for next season to even carry a full team. Cap friendly shows the Flames having 1.25 million in cap space with 10 F, 6 D, 2 G, Kylington on IR, Coronato, and Rooney in the minors. This is considering a 1 million cap increase and includes Kylington’s salary. If Kylington doesn’t return, that gives Calgary an extra 2.5 million in cap space. Coronato in the minors adds close to 1 million extra. If he does return, they have 7 D, including Gilbert. 1.25 million cap space is not enough for 2 league minimum forwards to just ice a team, let alone have spares. At least 1 reasonable sized contract will need to be moved regardless. This cap space will need to fill out the roster AND fill the whole left by moving out the contract. Which players are traded, signed, re-signed, etc. depends on what happens with coaching and GM. It is obvious that Treliving and Sutter are not on the same page. It is likely that Sutter was never Treliving’s choice and he was basically forced to extend Sutter after he got the Jack Adams last season. Comments about contract negotiations to extend Treliving seem to insinuate that if ownership continues to interfere in Treliving choices, he is not interested in returning. If owners allow him to release Sutter and choose his own coaches, that will work better with the team Treliving assembles, then he might come back. Did Sutter create the atmosphere last season for Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Mangiapane and Kylington etc. to have career years, or did their play just make Sutter look good in spite of his decision making? I don’t know the answer, but with both Gaudreau and Tkachuk leaving, comments from Kadri and others, the non-commital comments from Backlund and Lindholm, you really need to wonder about Sutter. I am not going to say one way or other, I have no inside information, but the question is there. So if Sutter stays, Treliving is not coming back (I would assume). Any new GM will make moves in the summer, likely reducing trade value and trying to get more Sutter types. If Sutter is out, there is no guarantee Treliving stays, especially if he feels ownership has interfered too much in the past and won’t change. It is difficult to guess where the team goes for next year. If Sutter stays on, Treliving is gone. You likely see Kadri, Ruzicka, and one or both of Lindholm and Backlund leaving, with Lewis, Ritchie, Lucic and Stone being brought back on low cost, 1-2 year contracts. Next season would be slow, grinding, boring hockey with few to know young players getting time. If owners stop interfering, Treliving comes back and makes his own choices, Sutter will be gone and I think Mangiapane might be the odd man out contract wise. His cap space is enough that Ruzicka, Pelletier, Duehr get ice time on cheap contracts. This is not a full rebuild, but allows for younger players to get a shot with veteran support, adds speed, skill and energy. There isn’t really cap space to make big splashes, so you go with what you have in the pipeline, finally. If Kylington doesn’t look to be coming back, Stetcher would be a reasonable choice to bring back as he is a bit of a Kylington lite. I have no real belief that the off season will go in a specific direction. After the young guns debacle of the 90’s I don’t see the owners ever accepting a full rebuild using youth. Ruzicka stuck this year (though mostly press box), Pelletier had some good looks, Duehr did well as a bottom 6 energy guy and secondary scoring. Retaining the likes of Huberdeau, Kadri and Toffoli would mean it is not a full rebuild, but slowly adding a couple of youngsters each season as veteran contracts expire would help the team stay competitive while preparing for the future. So far for next season, even if chemistry is not there and minimal changes, lineup looks like Huberdeau, Lindholm, Toffoli Dube, Kadri, ?? Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman Ruzicka, ??, ?? Without Sutter, re-signing Duehr and adding some youth, with only 1 trade (Mangiapane for picks), it could be: Huberdeau, Lindholm, Toffoli Pelletier, Kadri, Coronato Dube, Backlund, Coleman Ruzicka, ??, Duehr This gives a mix of vets, Backlund being the oldest at 35, and youth, without giving up too much of the experienced higher talent players. This would be similar to the Canucks playing the Sedin twins behind the West Coast Express for a few years until they were ready to take over the team. From what I saw, I think Pelletier has the class, supportive energy and joy for the game to make a good captain in the future. It is really team energy that was missing. There was no purple Gatorade, no fancy handshake and only on rare occasions were there real outbursts of exuberance from teammates when goals were scored (see Pelletier in his first few games and how Huberdeau was able to crack a smile finally). Yes the team needs to play with some control to be consistent, but they also need to have fun, something I don’t think happens much under Sutter as a coach. Just a few considerations, not really recommendations. Just thoughts on what the off season could see.

Sutter’s expression after the Hatty goal said it all. He looked annoyed that Zaddy got it.

And all that remains now is final draft position. No playoffs and likely a less than appealing draft spot.

I am guessing you see at least one of Treliving or Sutter leaving, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the team move on from both. Lots of changes to be made in the offseason due to need. Will this be something that will be better or worse remains to be seen.

Just had an interesting idea… Imagine if both Flames and Panthers limp into the playoffs and eventually face each other for the cup!! Unlikely, but would be a good story!

Playoff hopes stay alive while high draft hopes slip away. 12 points in 7 games to hit 95. There are 6 teams guaranteed to finish lower than the Flames, all of whom are officially out of the playoffs. Nashville and Winnipeg have tougher schedules remaining (at least on paper as they each play the Flames once, each other, Minnesota, Colorado and either Detroit, Jersey or Vegas, Dallas, Carolina and Pittsburg. Flames only have Winnipeg and Nashville who are in the hunt for playoffs remaining. Those head to heads may be the difference makers.

In all honesty, I made the thread because previous years we have had the magic number to clinch watch. This year, we were equally as likely to make the playoffs as do well in the draft lottery, so I was resigned to look at the 2 options realizing that neither was realistic and we would likely be disappointed regardless. Not playing well enough to make a run at the playoffs, not bad enough to have a good shot at moving way up in the draft. The Flames have continued this trend and don’t look like that will change.

So it is now 16 of 18 points likely needed (to hit 95 points). Winning out would max out at 97 points. The limited chances of getting into the playoffs are quickly disappearing.

The cap hit included Gilbert, Pelletier and Ruzicka. Duehr is RFA so needs a new contract. I agree there needs to be a couple of more young guys stepping up and at least 1 big contract moved.

I have no complaints about Stetcher in general. Not a bad piece to have and at 28, not a terrible piece to re-sign as long as he doesn’t take a big raise. Without Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie, Duehr, Stetcher and Stone, the Flames are only showing 1.3 million in cap space next season. That is with 10 (11 if you include Rooney) F, 7 D (including Kylington) and 2 G. Needing to add a couple of forwards, there already is not enough free cap. The only players without movement clauses who would save much space are Mangiapane, Lindholm, Toffoli, Andersson, Zadorov, or Weegar. Dube would also give a little space, but not much. So unless they can trade Huberdeau, Backlund, Hanifin or Tanev to a team they are ok with, there is little chance of anything big really happening. Basically there just isn’t room for Stetcher moving forward without a big splash.

With 11-14 games to go for all teams in the league, only Boston has clinched a playoff spot while Columbus, San Jose, Chicago, and Anaheim are officially out. The Flames have 12 games remaining and are 4 points behind the last wildcard spot Winnipeg with a game in hand, 6 behind Seattle in the other wildcard spot who have a game in hand on the Flames. Calgary is 9 points behind Edmonton for third in the division. Nashville is 1 point behind the Flames with 2 games in hand. Calgary plays back to back games today and tomorrow against LA and Anaheim with Vegas on Thursday. San Jose Saturday, LA on the following Tuesday, Vancouver on the Friday, Anaheim the Sunday, Chicago Tuesday, Winnipeg Wednesday, Vancouver Saturday, Nashville Monday, San Jose Wednesday. To hit 95 points, the best estimate for getting the last wildcard spot, Calgary needs 18 of the final 24 points. This means that at worst they can lose 3 games in regulation and win the rest. Losing in OT or SO is better than regulation loss, but not by much at this point. With 2 back to backs, the way the Flames have been playing, likely means they lose 1 of each at least. LA and Vegas are neck and neck for top in the Pacific so both teams will be playing hard and focussed. Winnipeg and Nashville at the end could be difference maker games. In order to make the playoffs, the Flames will need enough magic to fool Penn and Teller. It is possible, but don’t hold your breath.

Okay, I know it has been a difficult season to watch for Flames fans, but I wanted to look at and discuss how the remaining 16 games could play out for the team and how everything will likely end for the team this season. Historically the wild card spot has taken around 95 points to earn, so I will make that the target for discussion here. The Flames currently have 71 points, meaning they need to get another 24 points (12 wins) out of the last 16 games or a win rate of 75%. This is a difficult ask for any team, let alone our inconsistent Flames. The remaining schedule has the Flames playing 7 games against teams above them in the standings, including division / conference leaders. There are also games against Nashville and Winnipeg, the 2 teams most in competition with Calgary for the Wild Card spots. All games are against Western Conference teams so all games are more valuable for final standings. St. Louis is currently 8 points back of the Flames, Vancouver 10, both with a game in hand in the west, while whole league, Ottawa, Buffalo and Detroit, are all within 4 points of the Flames with a game in hand. So the Flames chances are slim to make the playoffs, but it is unlikely that they pick in the top 10 in the draft. It is most likely that they stay in the 11-14 range for picks, having missed the playoffs. Essentially the most likely scenario is the worst case one for this team. No playoffs but not lottery eligible for #1 overall. At best, the lottery could jump them 10 spots, into 2nd to 4th range, depending on final standings, but very unlikely. The Flames would need a full collapse with significant help from lower teams making runs, to get into a better lottery position. In conclusion, don’t expect many happy Flames fans over the next while.

Looking at Elite prospects, a few players that appeal to me are On D David Reinbacher 6’2 RHS Austrian Lukas Dragicevic 6’2 RHS Canadian Oliver Bonk 6’1 RHS Canadian Tom Willander 6’1 RHS Swede At C Calum Ritchie 6’2 RHS Canadian Nate Danielsen 6’1 RHS Canadian On RW Kasper Haltunnen 6’3 RHS Finn I am only looking at rankings online, so I am sure others know prospects better, but none of the above would be considered a reach from what I can see in the 10-20 pick range.

My last place is punishment for thinking that the Oilers would be leading.

I am not against those lines TD. That third line should be good. My only issue is that rather than more offence, that second line is just a pain in the rear line. They will get some chances but are more just creating space for the other lines. I like the way Dube and Coleman play, but they are not top passers or finishers. They are really good supporting players which leaves Kadri as the primary offence on that line. It could work, I just wouldn’t expect big numbers of goals from that line.

I don’t know what the answer to the Flames issue right now. With 6 goals from 6 players against LA, multiple 30+ goal scorers, I don’t think it is an individual player issue but more of a chemistry issue that was evident during training camp. Huberdeau and Gaudreau are not the same player, nor are Toffoli and Tkachuk. I am not surprised by the slower start for Lindholm, though through 2 games there seems to be more chemistry between Lindholm, Toffoli and Ruzicka. Huberdeau worked well with Bennett in Florida in a more run and gun style. Bennett driving hard and fast to the net and Huberdeau getting him the puck. Neither Lindholm or Toffoli play that game. They are more get control of the puck, get a player open in the circle and rifle a shot through. I would say Dube plays more like Bennett, so I would like to see Huberdeau and Dube get some time together. Kadri adds some grit at centre and scores “dirty” goals more than clean shots. Mangiapane is similar. This is likely why there is less chemistry as they both are looking to do the same thing, I would split them up to get more complimentary pieces. Kadri could work well with Huberdeau and Dube. Dube push fast to the net, Huberdeau passes to Dube for the initial shot with Kadri cleaning up the rebound. Ruzicka is working well on the top line as he states, he is the hunter. He goes to the boards to retrieve the puck and get it to Lindholm and Toffoli in the dangerous shooting zones, similar to what Backlund does for players. I would put Mangiapane with Backlund and Coleman. Coleman can do the hard work on the boards, Backlund can help with possession and they work the puck to the hard areas in front of the net for Mangiapane to do his thing. I think Huberdeau on 3rd line last night was a bit of first game back from injury and trying to jumpstart his game away from top line pressure. I don’t see it as punishment, just trying something different. He won’t stay there, not with his contact. Rotating Ritchie, Lewis, Rooney and Lucic on the 4th line will keep them fresher and they all provide similar benefits and detractors. The D is more of a mess right now than other areas, even if it was supposed to be the strength of the team. Hanifin is inconsistent. He has a really good game, followed by a bad game. I see the talent and why he is trusted, and then the brain farts. Weegar hasn’t found his footing yet, possibly from not having a set partner. Due to injuries, he has had a different partner every game and often multiple per game. Zadorov has been more steady this season, but similar to Hanifin he can be hot and cold. Tanev is good when healthy in whatever role you put him, other than PP. Andersson is having a good offensive year but D is a little off. Is this due to overwork because of injuries to Tanev and Stone? Markstrom is not making some of the saves he should, but some goals against have simply been great shots or bad luck. Ultimately finding the right fit for forwards, getting Weegar a stable partner, lowering playing time of the top 4 D by getting a more stable 3rd pair and getting Markstrom more rest by giving Vladar more games will likely help the team plenty.

Based on the game, a few thoughts. Ruzicka is making a case to stay in the lineup, even once Huberdeau is back. He is also showing chemistry with Lindholm and Toffoli. Mangiapane, Kadri, Dube is a good line, but Mangiapane just isn’t clicking as he should. Huberdeau also have a rough start. Mangiapane did better last season on a line with Backlund. Lewis scored a nice goal last night, but is better suited on 4th line. What about a lineup, once Huberdeau is back, of Ruzicka, Lindholm, Toffoli Huberdeau, Kadri, Dube Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman Lucic, Rooney/Lewis, Ritchie Huberdeau had success with Bennett last year who plays similar to Dube, and Kadri adds skill and grit in front of the net. Just a thought.

Top line just wasn’t firing. Huberdeau trying to make things happen but not able to really find good passes. Kadri and Mangiapane should help create more space for him. Lucic is there to create space for Lindholm and Toffoli. I don’t see chemistry between Lindholm and Toffoli which is the biggest issue. Toffoli needs a board grinding power forward to make space and a passer to get him the puck. Kadri is the closest thing to that. Lindholm is also more of a shooter with strong D. We are really missing the passer we need to work with Toffoli. Doubt these are lines for long, but yeah. Better to test against the Kraken than the Oilers.

Stone not listed on opening night roster. This to me indicates they need to wait for IR to kick in before signing him (contract purposes rather than cap) or (long shot and very wild guess with nothing to back it up in any way) they may want him to become a player development coach for the Wranglers.