2022 Offseason

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

46 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Only sadness I have is we traded Tkachuk and didn't land a #1 Center.

Landed a 100+ point player, a 1st rounder, a promising prospect and a potential first pairing D. Still not good enough for you huh?

 

All these claims of needing a #1 C but who was it going to be? Of the teams MT was going to go to either Aho or Thomas would be the best return and personally the team is served just as well with Lindy.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Landed a 100+ point player, a 1st rounder, a promising prospect and a potential first pairing D. Still not good enough for you huh?

 

All these claims of needing a #1 C but who was it going to be? Of the teams MT was going to go to either Aho or Thomas would be the best return and personally the team is served just as well with Lindy.

Yeah teams with #1 C's only move them when they have to, very rarely by choice for a winger.  And even if they go the potential route I would say closer to 25% of high pick centers become true #1's.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Landed a 100+ point player, a 1st rounder, a promising prospect and a potential first pairing D. Still not good enough for you huh?

 

All these claims of needing a #1 C but who was it going to be? Of the teams MT was going to go to either Aho or Thomas would be the best return and personally the team is served just as well with Lindy.

 

Yups.  #1 Center is so crucial.  No 100-point winger can be the same value.

 

Aho > Huberdeau all day long.  Aho might be one of the best two-way Centers in the league.  A top 7/8/9 Center in the NHL.  Way more valuable than a top 3/4/5 LW.  Plus Aho is 25 only.

 

I would've traded Tkachuk+Hanifin for Barkov alone.

[cross16]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yups.  #1 Center is so crucial.  No 100-point winger can be the same value.

 

Aho > Huberdeau all day long.  Aho might be one of the best two-way Centers in the league.  A top 7/8/9 Center in the NHL.  Way more valuable than a top 3/4/5 LW.  Plus Aho is 25 only.

 

 

This logic works both ways thought. As crucial as we think they ae the team that has them feels the same way. Why would Florida entertain moving Barkov or Carolina Aho?

 

the only way I think the Flames were getting a number 1 center in that deal was to take a flyer on prospect and of the teams that were on Tkachuk's list I don't see a number 1 center prospect. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

This logic works both ways thought. As crucial as we think they ae the team that has them feels the same way. Why would Florida entertain moving Barkov or Carolina Aho?

 

the only way I think the Flames were getting a number 1 center in that deal was to take a flyer on prospect and of the teams that were on Tkachuk's list I don't see a number 1 center prospect. 

 

 

 

Yep.  Necas was rumored to be part of the CAR deal, but he's not even playing as a C again this year.  He may be underrated, but if that was the major piece coming back, many would be really disappointed.

 

I am quite happy with the deal and resulting Kadri signing.  Both were a results of two players not wanting to be here.  We lost two wingers and gained a winger and top 6 C.  Age is a concern, but we have added two pieces we need to get to the next level.  

[The_People1]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

This logic works both ways thought. As crucial as we think they ae the team that has them feels the same way. Why would Florida entertain moving Barkov or Carolina Aho?

 

the only way I think the Flames were getting a number 1 center in that deal was to take a flyer on prospect and of the teams that were on Tkachuk's list I don't see a number 1 center prospect. 

 

 

 

Yups.  I'm just replying the original post about the perfect trade.  I only feel bad about the trade because we didn't get that #1 Center... Even though it may not have even been available to be had.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Yep.  Necas was rumored to be part of the CAR deal, but he's not even playing as a C again this year.  He may be underrated, but if that was the major piece coming back, many would be really disappointed.

 

I am quite happy with the deal and resulting Kadri signing.  Both were a results of two players not wanting to be here.  We lost two wingers and gained a winger and top 6 C.  Age is a concern, but we have added two pieces we need to get to the next level.  

 

when Boston won the cup, I guess Kreji and Bergeron were their top C's. Was Bergeron considered a Top C then? Or was he just Bergeroning (burgeoning) on becoming one?

 

would Lindholm be close enough to a Bergeron and Kadri a Kreji?

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

when Boston won the cup, I guess Kreji and Bergeron were their top C's. Was Bergeron considered a Top C then? Or was he just Bergeroning (burgeoning) on becoming one?

 

would Lindholm be close enough to a Bergeron and Kadri a Kreji?

 

The reason why teams win differ from year to year, so I'm not sure there is a benefit to comps.  Bottom line for me is we needed a top LW and a scoring top 6 C.  We got that, so that's what I expect to see.  If that works out to a cup, then we were lucky to lose Gaudreau.

[bosn111]

Very difficult to compare the Cs you mention with our Cs. Throughout his career, Bergeron has been a steady 2 way C with 20-30 goals. His highest point total was 79 in 65 games in his 16 pro year. Lindholm has been ramping up his offence to his career year last season scoring 42 goals and 82 points in his 9th season. Bergeron has better overall D, and Lindholm better O. So not sure how to compare directly as they accomplish the task in different ways and different team mates.

 

Kadri vs Krejci is a similar situation. Krejci never broke 25 goals in a season and hit 73 points twice though his average is under 60. Kadri broke 30 goals twice, and hit 87 points at highest so far, with an average closer to 50 (prorated). Hard to compare +/- between the D focused Bruins with good goalies and the D challenged Leafs.

 

So the comparisons are difficult to do at best. Don’t know which pair I would lean towards as the styles are different, even if the general idea is similar.

[Thebrewcrew]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

No kidding. I believe we got a lot better. The C and D has been addressed. JH is better than JG overall, his intensity is iinsane and contagious. I’d give him the C personally. I really like FLA’s game and roster. Their fans are pretty optimistic. I think they’re in for a rude awakening. 

They’ve lost their 2nd line, weakened their PP and removed a dman that was great for Ekblad. Adding Schwindt and a 1st is an unreal fleecing.

This is how you get Kadri to say, “oh yeah, I seriously want to talk to Calgary”.

Can’t thank JG and Tkachuk enough really. 

I think the Flames got better. It was funny, buddy of mine texted me when Tkachuk went to FLA. Had no idea what the return was. My first thought was hopefully, Lundell and likely Reinhart to make the money work. The return baffled me.

 

I think Gaudreau will continue to pile up the points, but revert back to the player he was pre-Darryl. His own Dad said he plays his best under a hard coach, Larsen doesn't seem like that to me. I think he's a in the 70-80pt player, with a dreadful +/-. Not the best stat, but it is telling to an extent.

 

The entire covid season we heard the narrative that Tkachuk was affected by the empty buildings. Not trying to bury Panther fans here, but the atmosphere in Calgary is significantly different than Sunrise on a nightly basis. Won't shock me if there are nights where he looks disengaged, playing NJ on a weeknight in front of 10k.

 

I expect Hubderdeau to have a massive year. It's no secret he wants to prove to the Panthers they made a mistake. It will benefit the Flames. Kadri is made for the BOA and he has a history of playing very well against 97. Weegar will become a top pair stud, which really pushes that deal over the edge IMO.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The reason why teams win differ from year to year, so I'm not sure there is a benefit to comps.  Bottom line for me is we needed a top LW and a scoring top 6 C.  We got that, so that's what I expect to see.  If that works out to a cup, then we were lucky to lose Gaudreau.

 

im just thinking, Lindholm, Kadri, Backlund is a good trio and Backlund is a decent step in if any of the other two get injured. The depth is much better. 
 

i think we still need a top6 RW. Will someone step up? I just think the, "we decided to look within" comment was more about, no one is dealing top6/9 wingers right now. Maybe they see Calgary as a threat to trade to? A good winger would do a lot to solidify the lineup. 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think the Flames got better. It was funny, buddy of mine texted me when Tkachuk went to FLA. Had no idea what the return was. My first thought was hopefully, Lundell and likely Reinhart to make the money work. The return baffled me.

 

I think Gaudreau will continue to pile up the points, but revert back to the player he was pre-Darryl. His own Dad said he plays his best under a hard coach, Larsen doesn't seem like that to me. I think he's a in the 70-80pt player, with a dreadful +/-. Not the best stat, but it is telling to an extent.

 

The entire covid season we heard the narrative that Tkachuk was affected by the empty buildings. Not trying to bury Panther fans here, but the atmosphere in Calgary is significantly different than Sunrise on a nightly basis. Won't shock me if there are nights where he looks disengaged, playing NJ on a weeknight in front of 10k.

 

I expect Hubderdeau to have a massive year. It's no secret he wants to prove to the Panthers they made a mistake. It will benefit the Flames. Kadri is made for the BOA and he has a history of playing very well against 97. Weegar will become a top pair stud, which really pushes that deal over the edge IMO.

 

i think Huberdeau and a first makes it a win already! Tkachuk only had one year, not necessarily the same deal as Huberdeau, but he only had one year too. Amazing!

 

then you get the other two and it's a fleecing.

[Thebrewcrew]

50 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i think Huberdeau and a first makes it a win already! Tkachuk only had one year, not necessarily the same deal as Huberdeau, but he only had one year too. Amazing!

 

then you get the other two and it's a fleecing.

I always figured Huberdeau was going to be a Panther for life. All-time leader in points, assists and games played. 

 

[robrob74]

33 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I always figured Huberdeau was going to be a Panther for life. All-time leader in points, assists and games played. 

 

Not that I'm complaining but that deal didn't and doesn't make sense.

not quite the Gilmour deal for us, but I think it could be pretty damn close. Although, the panthers got a player who could actually play. We didn't in that deal.
 

Tkachuk better play with Barkov. 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

Not that I'm complaining but that deal didn't and doesn't make sense.

not quite the Gilmour deal for us, but I think it could be pretty damn close. Although, the panthers got a player who could actually play. We didn't in that deal.
 

Tkachuk better play with Barkov. 

 

Panthers loved Tkachuk. The one thing they did get was younger.

 

I think they made their team worse though. They now don't have a first for three years. They moved their best offensive catalyst and 2nd best D. Not to mention Schwindt.

 

Doesn't feel like it's one that will age well for Bill Zito.

 

Last I saw Tkachuk-Bennett-White was a line at their camp

[cross16]

I don't think the deal is nearly as bad for the Panthers as people make it out to be or people just don't realize the cap hell the Panthers are in because of the Bobrovsky deal. 

 

They just re signed Knight and now go into next offseason with only 11 mill in cap room and only 16 players under contract. I think there was a reason that even before they put him in the Tkachuk deal, the Panthers were shopping Weegar because they know they can't re sign him next year. The Panthers picked cost certainty and got a future core piece for longer than they were going to have with Huberdeau. 

 

I'm surprised Treliving was still able to extract a pick out of the thing and the talent return for the Flames was still staggering, but I just don't think it's as lopsided as it appears on the surface given where Florida's roster and cap are at right now. Cost certainty and youth have value too. 

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I don't think the deal is nearly as bad for the Panthers as people make it out to be or people just don't realize the cap hell the Panthers are in because of the Bobrovsky deal. 

 

They just re signed Knight and now go into next offseason with only 11 mill in cap room and only 16 players under contract. I think there was a reason that even before they put him in the Tkachuk deal, the Panthers were shopping Weegar because they know they can't re sign him next year. The Panthers picked cost certainty and got a future core piece for longer than they were going to have with Huberdeau. 

 

I'm surprised Treliving was still able to extract a pick out of the thing and the talent return for the Flames was still staggering, but I just don't think it's as lopsided as it appears on the surface given where Florida's roster and cap are at right now. Cost certainty and youth have value too. 

 

In some ways, they traded the 1st for cap relief.  They sent potentially $17M + a 1st for a $9.5M player.  Added the prospect for the age difference.  Good deal for both teams, but I think we will prefer the players we got.  Tkachuk without Gaudreau is similar to Bennett without Huberdeau.  Poor analogy, but I don't think Tkachuk would have been 100 point player this season after JG left.

[cross16]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

In some ways, they traded the 1st for cap relief.  They sent potentially $17M + a 1st for a $9.5M player.  Added the prospect for the age difference.  Good deal for both teams, but I think we will prefer the players we got.  Tkachuk without Gaudreau is similar to Bennett without Huberdeau.  Poor analogy, but I don't think Tkachuk would have been 100 point player this season after JG left.

 

At the same time I personally don't think we'll see Huberdeau at over 100 pts away from Barkov either. 

 

That is no slight at Huberdeau at all either BTW. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

At the same time I personally don't think we'll see Huberdeau at over 100 pts away from Barkov either. 

 

That is no slight at Huberdeau at all either BTW. 

 

Yeah, it really depends on how the rest of the line and PP works this year.  If Lindholm is able to score 40+ and the "other guy" is over 30, then it may be close.  Huberdeau also may score more goals himself this year.

 

What I was really getting at was that Tkachuk got a lot of points from blind passes to JG as well as perfect passes from him.  That may happen this year for him, but I somehow doubt it.  No slight to Tkachuk either.  If we could have had Hubie with Tkachuk, that would have been interesting.    

[Sarasti]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

At the same time I personally don't think we'll see Huberdeau at over 100 pts away from Barkov either. 

 

That is no slight at Huberdeau at all either BTW. 

 

Hubie didn't play with Barkov much. 

Played most of the season with Bennett and Duclair. 

[Sarasti]

17 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

im just thinking, Lindholm, Kadri, Backlund is a good trio and Backlund is a decent step in if any of the other two get injured. The depth is much better. 
 

i think we still need a top6 RW. Will someone step up? I just think the, "we decided to look within" comment was more about, no one is dealing top6/9 wingers right now. Maybe they see Calgary as a threat to trade to? A good winger would do a lot to solidify the lineup. 

 

I agree with this.

Backlund is not the type of 2nd line center you win a cup with.

But he is absolutely the type of 3rd line center you win a cup with.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, Sarasti said:

 

Hubie didn't play with Barkov much. 

Played most of the season with Bennett and Duclair. 

 

Your right it was less than I thought. I knew it wasn't his primary line but the split was larger. That being said i think it goes past just being on his line or not, it also goes into quality of competition, line matching etc. What I was trying to say is IMO Barkov is the Panthers best player and Huberdeau coming over here will likely feel that. 

 

But again, i'm not trying to throw shade at Huberdeau. 

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

I don't think the deal is nearly as bad for the Panthers as people make it out to be or people just don't realize the cap hell the Panthers are in because of the Bobrovsky deal. 

 

They just re signed Knight and now go into next offseason with only 11 mill in cap room and only 16 players under contract. I think there was a reason that even before they put him in the Tkachuk deal, the Panthers were shopping Weegar because they know they can't re sign him next year. The Panthers picked cost certainty and got a future core piece for longer than they were going to have with Huberdeau. 

 

I'm surprised Treliving was still able to extract a pick out of the thing and the talent return for the Flames was still staggering, but I just don't think it's as lopsided as it appears on the surface given where Florida's roster and cap are at right now. Cost certainty and youth have value too. 

 

It was lopsided value wise for the Flames.  But the overall trade over the span of the next few years, that's where FLA comes out on top especially as you mentioned, they were going to be in cap hell.  Better to lose a Weegar trade now than lose him for nothing.

 

Similarly speaking, the Flames lost big time trading Monahan for a 1st round pick.  What an expensive cap dump... You'd think 1st round picks should buy 2 year cap dumps, not just 1... Especially not just 1 who could give you $3-mil performance this year.  Monahan is still a very solid 3rd/4th liner.

 

Ahh but can't look at the Monahan trade in isolation right?  Gotta look at the full picture.  Kadri's pen was on the contract and we had no time.  That's the player we covet and that's the player we need to salvage this off season at all costs.

[robrob74]

Listening to Valamaki on FlamesTalk podcast, he doesn't sound revved at all. He sounds like going through the motions and may need a change of scenery or some form of success. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/flames-talk/id1603908478?i=1000580729343

 

i hope he can get his game back. It would be good for the team to. 

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It was lopsided value wise for the Flames.  But the overall trade over the span of the next few years, that's where FLA comes out on top especially as you mentioned, they were going to be in cap hell.  Better to lose a Weegar trade now than lose him for nothing.

 

Similarly speaking, the Flames lost big time trading Monahan for a 1st round pick.  What an expensive cap dump... You'd think 1st round picks should buy 2 year cap dumps, not just 1... Especially not just 1 who could give you $3-mil performance this year.  Monahan is still a very solid 3rd/4th liner.

 

Ahh but can't look at the Monahan trade in isolation right?  Gotta look at the full picture.  Kadri's pen was on the contract and we had no time.  That's the player we covet and that's the player we need to salvage this off season at all costs.

 

Think of it as a TDL deal where we trade Monahan for a slightly more expensive cap hit.  If it costs a bunch of assets at TDL, this is almost the same.  Except we get a player we  can sign for long term.

 

Monahan may be worth $3M this year, but he has to do way more than he did in the last 2 years.  Does MTL have a playmaker that can set him up for 15 goals?  TBH, I am miffed that it cost a 1st, but we traded out a third liner for a top 6 C.  We may live to regret both parts of the deal, but Kadri at least give you 100% of skills that we didn't have.  Neither Backlund nor Rooney give you 30 goal potential in a 2C scoring role.

 

I would have been okay keeping Monahan for this year, if we had a place and cap.  We really didn't.  Tough business, but once JG walked, the reasons for keeping him were mostly gone.  In other words the only way he would get back to 30 g.