2022 Offseason

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I hope Virtanen has a great camp with the Oilers and the Oilers sign him... And then dump Puljujarvi.  And then we can swoop in and get Puljujarvi for a D... Either Kylington or Valimaki.

 

I wouldn't give them Kylington for Pooly.  Valimaki would be a fair trade and they save enough to sign Jake.

[travel_dude]

Francis is reporting that the Flames will be signing Brett Ritchie to a one year deal.

We are flush with 4th liners as it is.

Mid you, he scored 2 goals in the playoffs, while others scored none.

[JTech780]

26 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Francis is reporting that the Flames will be signing Brett Ritchie to a one year deal.

We are flush with 4th liners as it is.

Mid you, he scored 2 goals in the playoffs, while others scored none.

I actually don’t hate signing Ritchie. He has 0 offensive skill, but he is big and is physical and his underlying numbers are surprisingly strong. Even if he doesn’t play with the Flames he could provide the Wranglers with some needed experience and toughness.

[The_People1]

55 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wouldn't give them Kylington for Pooly.  Valimaki would be a fair trade and they save enough to sign Jake.

 

Not sure if you are overrating Kylington or underrating Puljujarvi... It's a fair trade Kylington for Puljujarvi straight up.

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Not sure if you are overrating Kylington or underrating Puljujarvi... It's a fair trade Kylington for Puljujarvi straight up.

 

Considering that teams wouldn't even give up a 2nd for him...

He's going to be a cap dump, so Kylington doesn't help really.

[travel_dude]

41 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I actually don’t hate signing Ritchie. He has 0 offensive skill, but he is big and is physical and his underlying numbers are surprisingly strong. Even if he doesn’t play with the Flames he could provide the Wranglers with some needed experience and toughness.

I don't hate the idea, but how many 4th liners do we need?

Where does he fit in the lineuip?

He's not a face off specialist.

He's tough, but I think he is reluctant to fight after the last injury.

 

We have Lucic, Rooney, Lewis, possibly Eakin.

[The_People1]

46 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Considering that teams wouldn't even give up a 2nd for him...

He's going to be a cap dump, so Kylington doesn't help really.

 

Oilers were apparently asking for a 1st for him.  Of course no one interested.  Where you hear no one wanted to give then a second?

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Francis is reporting that the Flames will be signing Brett Ritchie to a one year deal.

We are flush with 4th liners as it is.

Mid you, he scored 2 goals in the playoffs, while others scored none.

 

Sounds like Klapka might have a chance at making the Flames.  So let's make sure he doesn't.  

 

I mean, I like Ritchie.  I appreciate what he brings.  He is what he is.  But Klapka could do the same at a younger age and maybe more upside so don't bring back Ritchie.

 

...unless a Lucic deal is imminent.

[LouCifer]

When Hanifin is traded next off-season, not for any reason other than he’ll be entering the last year on his contract and expecting big money on his next one, we’ll be thankful we didn’t trade away Kylington this season and let him continue to grow with Tanev. 
 

I’m down on Valimaki and would have no problem trading him for Poolparty. Valimaki may figure it out one day, but it’ll be after McJesus leaves Edmonton for greener pastures. 
 

As for Ritchie, I‘m all for it. Like JTech said, the guy has great underlying numbers. He may not score much, but he tips the scales in our favour when he’s on the ice. Not many 4th liners that can fight, forecheck, AND help you defensively. Michael Stone and Brett Ritchie are the Flames’ spirit animals. 🐲

[The_People1]

14 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

When Hanifin is traded next off-season, not for any reason other than he’ll be entering the last year on his contract and expecting big money on his next one, we’ll be thankful we didn’t trade away Kylington this season and let him continue to grow with Tanev. 
 

I’m down on Valimaki and would have no problem trading him for Poolparty. Valimaki may figure it out one day, but it’ll be after McJesus leaves Edmonton for greener pastures. 
 

As for Ritchie, I‘m all for it. Like JTech said, the guy has great underlying numbers. He may not score much, but he tips the scales in our favour when he’s on the ice. Not many 4th liners that can fight, forecheck, AND help you defensively. Michael Stone and Brett Ritchie are the Flames’ spirit animals. 🐲

 

Unfortunately for your argument, second pairing LHS LD who are undersized are simply dime a dozen.  Kylington is not difficult to replace and Tanev is one year older next season so we know what that means for Kylington's game.  Kylington has proved he's a nobody without Tanev.

 

Plus, that's all next year's problem to deal with.  We have an immediate need to a RHS RW with size, two-way play, and has untapped scoring potential. We need the next Nichushkin for Kadri.

[LouCifer]

53 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Unfortunately for your argument, second pairing LHS LD who are undersized are simply dime a dozen.  Kylington is not difficult to replace and Tanev is one year older next season so we know what that means for Kylington's game.  Kylington has proved he's a nobody without Tanev.

 

Plus, that's all next year's problem to deal with.  We have an immediate need to a RHS RW with size, two-way play, and has untapped scoring potential. We need the next Nichushkin for Kadri.

To your point, Tanev will be 1 year older and Hanifin will likely be gone due to cost to retain. That’s almost 2 D-men down. All the more reason to hold on to Kylington. There are parts of Kyller’s game I really like and I think he can get better. I’m all for acquiring a RHS RW with size - I assume we’re talking about Poolparty here - and despite that he looks like Olli Jokinen 2.0 I’m all for trading Valimaki to get him. Besides, the money works better for EDM with Valimaki than it does Kylington, and if the Oil were after a 1st round pick for Pooly, Valimaki was a first round selection. 
 

Admittedly, I always picture Valimaki in a Canucks jersey… it just seems fitting for him to me 🤷🏻‍♂️

[The_People1]

37 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

To your point, Tanev will be 1 year older and Hanifin will likely be gone due to cost to retain. That’s almost 2 D-men down. All the more reason to hold on to Kylington. There are parts of Kyller’s game I really like and I think he can get better. I’m all for acquiring a RHS RW with size - I assume we’re talking about Poolparty here - and despite that he looks like Olli Jokinen 2.0 I’m all for trading Valimaki to get him. Besides, the money works better for EDM with Valimaki than it does Kylington, and if the Oil were after a 1st round pick for Pooly, Valimaki was a first round selection. 
 

Admittedly, I always picture Valimaki in a Canucks jersey… it just seems fitting for him to me 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

I'm afraid Valimaki has no trade value because he's an older prospect now who hasn't proved he can stick in the NHL.  It's got to be Kylington or Dube for Puljujarvi.  Someone at that level and youngish.  Established NHL player that's in the middle depth charts... Because that's what Puljujarvi is... 2nd/3rd line RW who we are taking a gamble on that can turn into a 30-goal scorer with Kadri or even Huberdeau.

 

If we are keeping Weegar long term, then Andersson and Weegar can fill RHS RD role vacated by Tanev.  Zadorov can play both sides.  And we hoping Kuznetsov or Poirier can graduate to the NHL in 2 years and play 3rd pair LD.  We aren't great but not in as bad a shape as you make it sound.

 

And no reason to trade Hanifin next year.  He's got same contract length as Kylington.  Flames likely "go for it" and hang onto Hanifin and walk him to UFA.

[cross16]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Oilers were apparently asking for a 1st for him.  Of course no one interested.  Where you hear no one wanted to give then a second?

 

Jason Gregor in Edmonton has apparently said he expected the return to be a mid to late 2nd and I think also said they were offered a 3rd but declined. It was apparently a radio hit so it's not searchable. 

 

Spector think the Oilers want a player back for Puljujarvi and are not yet ready to settle for just a pick. 

 

Don't see the Flames as an option here though. I don't see the Oilers having a strong desire in Kylington and the Flames don't have the cap space to acquire him for a pick. 

[conundrumed]

I’ve always felt a massive no to Puljijarvi.

Don’t give me underlying stats, watch him. He’s a bottom 6 guy at best.

For Kylington? yeahno.

[The_People1]

32 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I’ve always felt a massive no to Puljijarvi.

Don’t give me underlying stats, watch him. He’s a bottom 6 guy at best.

For Kylington? yeahno.

 

And Kylington?  A bottom 3 D also.

[conundrumed]

50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

And Kylington?  A bottom 3 D also.

Kylington has upside. Really just broke out a bit last year. He’s earned it for this year.

Now tell me what I’m supposed to see in the Oilers selecting a 3rd liner at best as a Top 5 pick.

Sounds great.

And why would we want him.

He had McDavid and Draisaitl.

He’s not good enough, that’s why his path has been rough.

For Kylington? Not on your life.

 

 

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Kylington has upside. Really just broke out a bit last year. He’s earned it for this year.

Now tell me what I’m supposed to see in the Oilers selecting a 3rd liner at best as a Top 5 pick.

Sounds great.

And why would we want him.

He had McDavid and Draisaitl.

He’s not good enough, that’s why his path has been rough.

For Kylington? Not on your life.

 

 

 

Kylington probably ends up as a bottom 3 D but even then I don't know why we'd give him up for Pulj.   No matter where he ends up he can skate with the  best players in the league ans has the potential to be a core player.   

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Kylington probably ends up as a bottom 3 D but even then I don't know why we'd give him up for Pulj.   No matter where he ends up he can skate with the  best players in the league ans has the potential to be a core player.   

 

The funny thing is that Pulju had similar results for the year.

14g 22a

Kyl had 9g 22a.

 

A top 6 player (mostly) that can barely score more points than a "rookie" D?

Nobody is paying much for Pooly.

He's not my first choice for a top 6 player for us, but he has some good traits.

Big, fast, hard shot.

Have to balance that with his "IQ" and other negatives.

Worth Valimaki?

Only because both need a reset and we have excess D.

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

Kylington probably ends up as a bottom 3 D but even then I don't know why we'd give him up for Pulj.   No matter where he ends up he can skate with the  best players in the league ans has the potential to be a core player.   

 

This. 

 

A small sample size for sure, but last year the few times Kyller was out there on the ice with McJesus, he kept up with him and held him to the outside negating any threat towards the middle of the ice. For a bigger sample size, whenever Kyller got caught up ice (whether his error or someone elses) he was more than capable of catching up and returning to a defensive position negating odd-man threats. I like the kid, and he will get better. 

[LouCifer]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

The funny thing is that Pulju had similar results for the year.

14g 22a

Kyl had 9g 22a.

Worth Valimaki?

Only because both need a reset and we have excess D.

 

That's the way I see it. 

 

But of course, if there's a better RHS/RW out there that can be had for Valimaki+, make that trade instead of helping out the Oil in any capacity. 

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

This. 

 

A small sample size for sure, but last year the few times Kyller was out there on the ice with McJesus, he kept up with him and held him to the outside negating any threat towards the middle of the ice. For a bigger sample size, whenever Kyller got caught up ice (whether his error or someone elses) he was more than capable of catching up and returning to a defensive position negating odd-man threats. I like the kid, and he will get better. 

 

23 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

That's the way I see it. 

 

But of course, if there's a better RHS/RW out there that can be had for Valimaki+, make that trade instead of helping out the Oil in any capacity. 

 

I have a problem with suggestions of trading a guy that showed he can play with our most solid defensive D and put up career numbers.  He took a minor step back after his first injury and never really looked the same, but I expect him to have a strong campaign this year, starting out strong like he did last year.  

 

In my mind the pairs (could change) seem strongest with the following:

Weegar-Ras

Kyl-Tanev

Hanifin-Zadorov

 

Hanifin is better left to wheel if Zadorov can take care of the D-zone net front.  It's one of the areas that Hanifin was getting burned last year.  Playing with Ras tended to have two guys thinking offense and Hanifin struggled getting back to cover.  But it begs the question - do we need a top 4 D on a 3rd pairing?  Wouldn't Meloche/Mackey/Valimaki be capable of playing a hard nosed D in that situation?  We may not lose Valimaki to waiver claim, but we still have to use cap to have him play in the minors.

 

I know Willie Nee is not a player you welcome, but his value is what we should expect in a Hanifin trade.  I think the options for a trade like that are limited.  Nonetheless, we should be exploring it, if only to improve depth in the top 9.  Possibly Milano is the missing top 6 guy, but I'm not 100% sold.  We are a different team than Anaheim.  He could do really well with Kadri and Toffoli, as long as we aren't expecting Backlund level 2 way play.  

[travel_dude]

Oh, one further note.  Ritchie was being pursued by EDM for a PTO, so that may have had something to do with why BT is making an offer.

[The_People1]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Kylington has upside. Really just broke out a bit last year. He’s earned it for this year.

Now tell me what I’m supposed to see in the Oilers selecting a 3rd liner at best as a Top 5 pick.

Sounds great.

And why would we want him.

He had McDavid and Draisaitl.

He’s not good enough, that’s why his path has been rough.

For Kylington? Not on your life.

 

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Kylington probably ends up as a bottom 3 D but even then I don't know why we'd give him up for Pulj.   No matter where he ends up he can skate with the  best players in the league ans has the potential to be a core player.   

 

Kylington doesn't have the hockey IQ when he has the puck and was hugely boosted by Tanev in the regular season.  Skating against the "best of the best" in McDavid, Draisaitl, etc, he was completely exposed.  You guys forgot what happened in the Oilers series?  Kylington could not be trusted on the ice.  (And neither can Hanifin but we've already beat that horse dead).

 

But Kylington is still a good bottom 3 D and that's okay.  If we keep him, no problem.  He's serviceable.

 

Why would we want Puljujarvi?  He's a solid 3rd liner with 2nd line potential (if he can catch fire with Kadri like Nichushkin).  Puljujarvi has the draft pedigree so there's reason to believe.  Sometimes it's difficult playing on a line with McDavid because he does everything himself.  With the right line mates, Puljujarvi could put up 45-55 points.  It's Mangiapane-level production which is not bad.

 

If Puljujarvi can't put up the numbers then he's still only 24.  He can carve out another 5-years as a 3rd liner before he fades.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, LouCifer said:

 

That's the way I see it. 

 

But of course, if there's a better RHS/RW out there that can be had for Valimaki+, make that trade instead of helping out the Oil in any capacity. 

 

RHS RW with size and decent skating... You have to pay a small premium for RHS always.  That's just the free market forces at play because RHS is a rarer commodity.  Anytime a team trades a LHS for a RHS, the LHS player should be the better player.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

Kylington doesn't have the hockey IQ when he has the puck and was hugely boosted by Tanev in the regular season.  Skating against the "best of the best" in McDavid, Draisaitl, etc, he was completely exposed.  You guys forgot what happened in the Oilers series?  Kylington could not be trusted on the ice.  (And neither can Hanifin but we've already beat that horse dead).

 

But Kylington is still a good bottom 3 D and that's okay.  If we keep him, no problem.  He's serviceable.

 

Why would we want Puljujarvi?  He's a solid 3rd liner with 2nd line potential (if he can catch fire with Kadri like Nichushkin).  Puljujarvi has the draft pedigree so there's reason to believe.  Sometimes it's difficult playing on a line with McDavid because he does everything himself.  With the right line mates, Puljujarvi could put up 45-55 points.  It's Mangiapane-level production which is not bad.

 

If Puljujarvi can't put up the numbers then he's still only 24.  He can carve out another 5-years as a 3rd liner before he fades.

 

If you are looking at the playoffs as being an expose of Kylington, perhaps take into account that Tanev was injured in the first round and the D was exposed as a whole at that point.  Hanifin and Zadorov were unable to handle any of the top lines.  So it wasn't Kylington that was the only player getting walked.  In fact, Kylington was one of the few that could get back to cover, without taking penalties.

 

Pooly was unable to fit any line he played on, whether it was with McLeod or Draisaitl or McD.  Even though Yamamoto struggled with NHL sized players, Pooly showed his lack of hockey IQ.  I think he could be rebranded and get his game closer to the level of a top 3 pick, but right now he is unlikely to play in EDM.  He's not worth even a 3rd pairing guy on a top 10 NHL team.  Lundqvist got a 1st and 4th, so the value of a D shows what teams are willing to pay.  Pooly isn't even close to that.