2022 Offseason

[MP5029]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya I wouldn't have minded a pure defensive shut down guy as Tanev insurance.  This especially with Gudbranson leaving.  We are "easier" to play against swapping Weegar for Gudbranson.

I don’t think so…big Z and Tanev are still

tough and it’s hard to score when guys like Weegar hold the puck and make outstanding out let passes etc…

 

also, Kadri and Hubs will

make it harder on other teams…definitely harder for other teams on the LW now…hubs is probably harder to play against than Gaudreau he’s like a blend of Gaudreau and Tachuck then add Kadri in the middle second line followed by Backlund who’s like a possession god…I really don’t think this team will be easy to play against…well LW, Ctr, D and Goal are definitely as good as any up and down…RW is definitely a huge issue and hole it’s gotta be addressed big time…passer/player and a True power forward RW would be ideal…even if we had to move Toffoil for one of each of those type of RW’s woud totally be worth while 

[phoenix66]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya I wouldn't have minded a pure defensive shut down guy as Tanev insurance.  This especially with Gudbranson leaving.  We are "easier" to play against swapping Weegar for Gudbranson.

This is what people aren't picking up about Weegar.. and I get it , not many people have watched him play.. but he's essentially Tanev 2.0.. with improved puck handling skills .. 

[travel_dude]

16 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I don't necessarily think this, but was listening to ( I think it was) Loubardias this past week and he suggested two areas of strength to trade from, and they were defence and goaltending. I'm with others who might want to keep the D as is. So could a Vladar deal net something decent, not him alone. But that might elevate a Wolf too early. 

 

The goalie depth is what you need.  We had Parsons and Gillies and neither of them went anywhere.  I would be against moving any of the G we have.  We have a backup with starter potential.  We have a top prospects.  ANything other than that is worth very little.  Makes no sense to move Vladar.

 

Wolf is too early.  Get him into a game when the time arises or against a lesser team early on or later

[jjgallow]

44 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The goalie depth is what you need.  We had Parsons and Gillies and neither of them went anywhere.  I would be against moving any of the G we have.  We have a backup with starter potential.  We have a top prospects.  ANything other than that is worth very little.  Makes no sense to move Vladar.

 

Wolf is too early.  Get him into a game when the time arises or against a lesser team early on or later

 

I wouldn't count Sergeyev out of the equation either, he's doing well in his own right.

 

That said, It think it is comical after getting absolutely pummelled defensively in the playoffs that people be like "we are too deep on goaltending on D" Lol.   Cause "Tanev was injured and the refs hate us so that's why we were 5 goals against every game".  yeah ok.

 

If we're not blowing it up, which we should have, then I don't think you trade any of them except Hanifin, and that's because he doesn't really contribute defensively.   But if you trade Hanifin you're hopefully acquiring someone who does contribute defensively.    Possibly through a separate trade.

[The_People1]

16 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

This is what people aren't picking up about Weegar.. and I get it , not many people have watched him play.. but he's essentially Tanev 2.0.. with improved puck handling skills .. 

 

Looking forward to it.  I'm expecting more like another Rasmus Andersson... Like more of a hybrid two-way type.  Not big but covers lots of ice.

[The_People1]

Jason Robertson is still unsigned.  Should we look into it?  Is he the perfect fit on RW for us?  He's LHS but LW/RW.  23.  41G 38A 79Pts.  He was arguably the Stars second most dangerous forward against us in the playoffs after Pavelski.

 

Might cost us Rasmus Andersson... DAL badly needs RHS RD.  I doubt Hanifin gets it done.

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Jason Robertson is still unsigned.  Should we look into it?  Is he the perfect fit on RW for us?  He's LHS but LW/RW.  23.  41G 38A 79Pts.  He was arguably the Stars second most dangerous forward against us in the playoffs after Pavelski.

 

Might cost us Rasmus Andersson... DAL badly needs RHS RD.  I doubt Hanifin gets it done.

For Hanifin ok but Anderson absolutely NOT! Unless we get him + a 1st rounder…

 

sorry Anderson has huge value now, especially considering he’s a D…Forward development is way less, Anderson is just stating to hit his peak, anytime you’re talking a Sold Top 4 D like Anderson your looking at much more than a potential young star…your looking at a potential young star + a 1st round pick or

one hell of a good established forward…

 

personally I think BT needs to do only 2 moves which will cost Toffoil and either Hanifin or Kylington…maybe Dube too?

 

1. a top 4 RW passer playmaker type

 

2. a power forward RW 

 

Having said this, obviously the best COA is to use as very few D as needed for this…it’s crazy deep and should stay that way but having said this obviously Valimaki and McKay are expendable parts on 1way contracts…just not sure if either trade value is sufficient to do the trick

hence Hanifin…though if BT can use only Valimaki and McKay and keep Hanifin then that’s obviously the best option 

 

 

[pikey7883]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Jason Robertson is still unsigned.  Should we look into it?  Is he the perfect fit on RW for us?  He's LHS but LW/RW.  23.  41G 38A 79Pts.  He was arguably the Stars second most dangerous forward against us in the playoffs after Pavelski.

 

Might cost us Rasmus Andersson... DAL badly needs RHS RD.  I doubt Hanifin gets it done.

I’ve also considered him as well, and would absolutely be a great fit to our top line. I don’t know what the cost would be in a trade? Probably something similar to what we got for Tkachuk (which we can’t do), and we don’t have the right picks for an offer sheet. But Dallas is in a pretty terrible situation unless they can get really creative with bridge deals for both him and Ottenginer, or move other salary out, which they are probably looking at a Mony type of trade to clear someone. I’ve been trying to come up with ways to “help” then out. But I don’t see them as good trade partners for us. 

[pikey7883]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:20 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Ya I wouldn't have minded a pure defensive shut down guy as Tanev insurance.  This especially with Gudbranson leaving.  We are "easier" to play against swapping Weegar for Gudbranson.

I also wanted to comment on this, Weegar might be easier from a physical standpoint, but I don’t think I’m too out to lunch when I say he may be the most underrated D-Man in the League, it doesn’t matter how many metrics or analytics you look at, he’s always in the top 10. He will be very good for us, and I think play on the top pair with Anderson and make him even better.

That being said I do understand what you are saying, one team I was wondering about is Philly. Their D is better with Deangelo, and if Ellis gets healthy might be ok. But I think they’re looking to make some big changes yet (or should be). I wondered if there was a way to build something around Hannifin for Provarov (at 50% retained salary). They’re however currently over the cap and too many players, so I think that we might be able to benefit from their situation by adding Konecny for Dube. I do know we need to add a sweetener, they might actually consider this deal if we added our 2023 first. 
But we could have a second line of 

Mang - Kadri - Konecny

And Maybe Big Z and Provarov have some chemistry back there

 

Just thinking out loud obviously, lol.

[cross16]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:20 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Ya I wouldn't have minded a pure defensive shut down guy as Tanev insurance.  This especially with Gudbranson leaving.  We are "easier" to play against swapping Weegar for Gudbranson.

 

Depends on how you define easier I guess. Weegar has been on one of the best dman in the league for shutting down zone entries for several seasons now. 

 

And Gudbranson was a turnstile in the playoffs. 

 

[sak22]

21 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Jason Robertson is still unsigned.  Should we look into it?  Is he the perfect fit on RW for us?  He's LHS but LW/RW.  23.  41G 38A 79Pts.  He was arguably the Stars second most dangerous forward against us in the playoffs after Pavelski.

 

Might cost us Rasmus Andersson... DAL badly needs RHS RD.  I doubt Hanifin gets it done.

We could look, but that's a core piece there they aren't shopping him, if you aren't shopping a piece you aren't going to sell for cheap.  Its only August, it really isn't uncommon for RFA's to wait until camp is about to start or even after camp has started.  Dallas does have 2 big pieces to sign, but it's still a forward with less than 2 full seasons and a goalie who has only started half the games over the past 2 seasons, no reason to panic on their end yet.

[pikey7883]

58 minutes ago, sak22 said:

We could look, but that's a core piece there they aren't shopping him, if you aren't shopping a piece you aren't going to sell for cheap.  Its only August, it really isn't uncommon for RFA's to wait until camp is about to start or even after camp has started.  Dallas does have 2 big pieces to sign, but it's still a forward with less than 2 full seasons and a goalie who has only started half the games over the past 2 seasons, no reason to panic on their end yet.

If they’re not panicking, then they have ice through their veins. For perspective. Fast forward 3 years down the road. We just watched Wolf almost steal us a series we didn’t deserve to be in, and Pelltier just had an 80 point season. We don’t have enough money for both of them. And we’re looking at back end deals of both Hubie and Naz, the panic should be real for them.

[sak22]

20 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

If they’re not panicking, then they have ice through their veins. For perspective. Fast forward 3 years down the road. We just watched Wolf almost steal us a series we didn’t deserve to be in, and Pelltier just had an 80 point season. We don’t have enough money for both of them. And we’re looking at back end deals of both Hubie and Naz, the panic should be real for them.

They haven't opened the books to Roberston for the same reason Treliving didn't for Gaudreau, these negotiations take time nowadays its really who blinks first the team not wanting to start the season without the player, or the player not wanting to miss time.  But this is no different than Gaudreau and Tkachuk's 2nd deals.   Dallas still has options to open more space as they will find a way to make Khudobin's 3.3M disappear, and possibly send out Gurianov as well.   I wouldn't be getting my hopes up either way.

 

In your hypothetical situation, 3 years down the road Markstrom is on his last year, Tanev, Backlund, Toffoli, Lucic, Zadorov, Mangiapane, Kylington, Dube, Lindholm and Hanifin's current deals are up as well, add in Bill Daly last week said he anticipates the cap to rise sooner than anticipated, so I'm not panicking over that thought yet and to be honest if Pelletier was an 80 point player I'd be rather ecstatic, because I don't see that high of a ceiling for him.

[pikey7883]

21 minutes ago, sak22 said:

They haven't opened the books to Roberston for the same reason Treliving didn't for Gaudreau, these negotiations take time nowadays its really who blinks first the team not wanting to start the season without the player, or the player not wanting to miss time.  But this is no different than Gaudreau and Tkachuk's 2nd deals.   Dallas still has options to open more space as they will find a way to make Khudobin's 3.3M disappear, and possibly send out Gurianov as well.   I wouldn't be getting my hopes up either way.

 

In your hypothetical situation, 3 years down the road Markstrom is on his last year, Tanev, Backlund, Toffoli, Lucic, Zadorov, Mangiapane, Kylington, Dube, Lindholm and Hanifin's current deals are up as well, add in Bill Daly last week said he anticipates the cap to rise sooner than anticipated, so I'm not panicking over that thought yet and to be honest if Pelletier was an 80 point player I'd be rather ecstatic, because I don't see that high of a ceiling for him.

Sorry my example wasn’t a perfectly paralleled situation, and I know we won’t be in the same situation as they are currently. I’ve just read that Ottenger’s camp is not interested in a bridge or home town discount, and have read it’s $6-7 x 8. If it’s true, it doesn’t leave a lot of room for Robertson. That’s all

[sak22]

31 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

Sorry my example wasn’t a perfectly paralleled situation, and I know we won’t be in the same situation as they are currently. I’ve just read that Ottenger’s camp is not interested in a bridge or home town discount, and have read it’s $6-7 x 8. If it’s true, it doesn’t leave a lot of room for Robertson. That’s all

Nothing says they have to give him that, if I'm Jim Nill I'm not throwing big bucks because he almost stole a series.  He had a good season but hard to put him with the best based on his overall body of work last year, can't get carried away with that series.  The players only leverage is an offer sheet and if he hasn't gotten one in that range by now, he won't get one period.  If given the choice of only keeping one I'm going with Robertson, Dallas has had playoff runs lately with both Bishop and Khudobin but 40 goal scorers don't grow on trees.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

They haven't opened the books to Roberston for the same reason Treliving didn't for Gaudreau, these negotiations take time nowadays its really who blinks first the team not wanting to start the season without the player, or the player not wanting to miss time.  But this is no different than Gaudreau and Tkachuk's 2nd deals.   Dallas still has options to open more space as they will find a way to make Khudobin's 3.3M disappear, and possibly send out Gurianov as well.   I wouldn't be getting my hopes up either way.

 

In your hypothetical situation, 3 years down the road Markstrom is on his last year, Tanev, Backlund, Toffoli, Lucic, Zadorov, Mangiapane, Kylington, Dube, Lindholm and Hanifin's current deals are up as well, add in Bill Daly last week said he anticipates the cap to rise sooner than anticipated, so I'm not panicking over that thought yet and to be honest if Pelletier was an 80 point player I'd be rather ecstatic, because I don't see that high of a ceiling for him.

 

And the Gaudreau/Tkachuk contracts have proven to be a mistake.  You see many teams nowadays not go that route... Basically lock them up for as long as you can.  Don't hardball too much and cut it short to 4 or 5 years or whatever.

[sak22]

27 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

And the Gaudreau/Tkachuk contracts have proven to be a mistake.  You see many teams nowadays not go that route... Basically lock them up for as long as you can.  Don't hardball too much and cut it short to 4 or 5 years or whatever.

Like who?

Toronto only did 5 or 6 with Matthews, Marner, and Nylander.  Colorado only went 6 with Rantanen, Tampa only went for 3 on Kucherov and Point after the ELC, of the guys they gave 8 to this year I think there could be a mistake or two down the road, Vancouver only 3 for Petterson and 6 for Hughes.  The ones who sign for 8 are the ones who haven't really earned it.  Ottawa gave Brady 8 million to get him to 8 years, he's not an 8 million dollar player now, and debatable whether he will get there, and it could be quite interesting to see how high they go on Stutzle to get him for 8.  Hard to call the Gaudreau contract a mistake, you got 3 seasons of over a point per game for 6.75, hard to find that type of production for that price, if you extend that contract by 2 years and add 1.5m per season, and remember the guy took a lot of heat for the 2019 playoffs, a lot of heat for the drop in play in 2020, the noise in 2020 was that we were paying a guy 6.75 million for 2 more years that we couldn't win with, it would've much louder if it was 4 years and over 8 million.  

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

Like who?

Toronto only did 5 or 6 with Matthews, Marner, and Nylander.  Colorado only went 6 with Rantanen, Tampa only went for 3 on Kucherov and Point after the ELC, of the guys they gave 8 to this year I think there could be a mistake or two down the road, Vancouver only 3 for Petterson and 6 for Hughes.  The ones who sign for 8 are the ones who haven't really earned it.  Ottawa gave Brady 8 million to get him to 8 years, he's not an 8 million dollar player now, and debatable whether he will get there, and it could be quite interesting to see how high they go on Stutzle to get him for 8.  Hard to call the Gaudreau contract a mistake, you got 3 seasons of over a point per game for 6.75, hard to find that type of production for that price, if you extend that contract by 2 years and add 1.5m per season, and remember the guy took a lot of heat for the 2019 playoffs, a lot of heat for the drop in play in 2020, the noise in 2020 was that we were paying a guy 6.75 million for 2 more years that we couldn't win with, it would've much louder if it was 4 years and over 8 million.  

 

I guess I was just looking at OTT with their star players.  CAR gave 8 to Svechnikov. NJ gave 8 with Hughes before Hughes even broke out.  Adam Fox got 7 at $9.5-mil.

 

Not every team doing that but the theme seems to be "pay more than current market value to get those extra years with the anticipation the cap goes up and the contract gains market value over time".

[cross16]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

And the Gaudreau/Tkachuk contracts have proven to be a mistake.  You see many teams nowadays not go that route... Basically lock them up for as long as you can.  Don't hardball too much and cut it short to 4 or 5 years or whatever.

 

Tkachuk had a lot to say about how that contract was structured. Not sure if that's fair to label a "mistake". 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, sak22 said:

They haven't opened the books to Roberston for the same reason Treliving didn't for Gaudreau, these negotiations take time nowadays its really who blinks first the team not wanting to start the season without the player, or the player not wanting to miss time.  But this is no different than Gaudreau and Tkachuk's 2nd deals.   Dallas still has options to open more space as they will find a way to make Khudobin's 3.3M disappear, and possibly send out Gurianov as well.   I wouldn't be getting my hopes up either way.

 

In your hypothetical situation, 3 years down the road Markstrom is on his last year, Tanev, Backlund, Toffoli, Lucic, Zadorov, Mangiapane, Kylington, Dube, Lindholm and Hanifin's current deals are up as well, add in Bill Daly last week said he anticipates the cap to rise sooner than anticipated, so I'm not panicking over that thought yet and to be honest if Pelletier was an 80 point player I'd be rather ecstatic, because I don't see that high of a ceiling for him.

i agree and really it's more like Gaudreau before his last deal with the Flames and Mangiapane a few years back as well. RFA tend to go longer occasionally when signing.

[7wit]

On 8/28/2022 at 6:58 PM, pikey7883 said:

I also wanted to comment on this, Weegar might be easier from a physical standpoint, but I don’t think I’m too out to lunch when I say he may be the most underrated D-Man in the League, it doesn’t matter how many metrics or analytics you look at, he’s always in the top 10. He will be very good for us, and I think play on the top pair with Anderson and make him even better.

That being said I do understand what you are saying, one team I was wondering about is Philly. Their D is better with Deangelo, and if Ellis gets healthy might be ok. But I think they’re looking to make some big changes yet (or should be). I wondered if there was a way to build something around Hannifin for Provarov (at 50% retained salary). They’re however currently over the cap and too many players, so I think that we might be able to benefit from their situation by adding Konecny for Dube. I do know we need to add a sweetener, they might actually consider this deal if we added our 2023 first. 
But we could have a second line of 

Mang - Kadri - Konecny

And Maybe Big Z and Provarov have some chemistry back there

 

Just thinking out loud obviously, lol.

I agree with you about Weegar on the first pair with Anderson. It could be something special.
 

Would love to see Konecny here. A heart and soul guy who can help offensively. I don’t believe Philly would move him though unless the price is right. He’s young with term. It seems that Hanifin and Dube come up all the time for obvious reasons. Hanifin, Dube, and 2023 first for Konecny and Provarov (50% retained) is what you’re suggesting. I wonder if Hanifin for Konecny would work or even Hanifin and Dube for Konecny and Sanheim though I would rather have Provarov. Philadelphia could afford Hanifin’s raise with Van Riemsdyk coming off after this year.

 

I often wondered if Gaudreau told Calgary he wouldn’t be back earlier rather than just before free agency began we could have done a sign and trade with Philly for Konecny plus. Gaudreau really wanted to go there and I think the Flyers would have done it. It doesn’t matter now anyway.

[JTech780]

Guess we can cross Dahlen off the list. I would assume he has an NHL out clause at some point in that contract.

[The_People1]

14 hours ago, 7wit said:

I agree with you about Weegar on the first pair with Anderson. It could be something special.
 

Would love to see Konecny here. A heart and soul guy who can help offensively. I don’t believe Philly would move him though unless the price is right. He’s young with term. It seems that Hanifin and Dube come up all the time for obvious reasons. Hanifin, Dube, and 2023 first for Konecny and Provarov (50% retained) is what you’re suggesting. I wonder if Hanifin for Konecny would work or even Hanifin and Dube for Konecny and Sanheim though I would rather have Provarov. Philadelphia could afford Hanifin’s raise with Van Riemsdyk coming off after this year.

 

I often wondered if Gaudreau told Calgary he wouldn’t be back earlier rather than just before free agency began we could have done a sign and trade with Philly for Konecny plus. Gaudreau really wanted to go there and I think the Flyers would have done it. It doesn’t matter now anyway.

 

I like Farabee too.  Feels like a Glencross-type.  Would like to get him somehow.

[The_Tribal Chief]

good listen to flames coach and flames tv went to viking to see sutter and talk about the flames

[jjgallow]

On 8/28/2022 at 6:58 PM, pikey7883 said:

I also wanted to comment on this, Weegar might be easier from a physical standpoint, but I don’t think I’m too out to lunch when I say he may be the most underrated D-Man in the League, it doesn’t matter how many metrics or analytics you look at, he’s always in the top 10. He will be very good for us, and I think play on the top pair with Anderson and make him even better.

That being said I do understand what you are saying, one team I was wondering about is Philly. Their D is better with Deangelo, and if Ellis gets healthy might be ok. But I think they’re looking to make some big changes yet (or should be). I wondered if there was a way to build something around Hannifin for Provarov (at 50% retained salary). They’re however currently over the cap and too many players, so I think that we might be able to benefit from their situation by adding Konecny for Dube. I do know we need to add a sweetener, they might actually consider this deal if we added our 2023 first. 
But we could have a second line of 

Mang - Kadri - Konecny

And Maybe Big Z and Provarov have some chemistry back there

 

Just thinking out loud obviously, lol.

 

This thread is like a continual excuse machine for why we don't need to worry about our two biggest weaknesses in the playoffs last year, defense and goaltending.   It wasn't close.

 

People still assume that next year all the defense will be healthy and play far better and we'll love all the ref calls and the goaltending will just keep improving post season. 

 

It would be super swell if the world worked that way and bringing in 1 dman would just completely change everything for us