2022 Offseason

[The_People1]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

 

 

Doesn't sound like a deal is close.

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Doesn't sound like a deal is close.

 

I'd argue the opposite. Treliving almost never comments on negotiations in the public. If he is willing to even comment on it I would take that as he has confidence a deal is going to get done. 

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Doesn't sound like a deal is close.

 

Or it's typical BT speak for we are getting ready to sign.

[The_People1]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I'd argue the opposite. Treliving almost never comments on negotiations in the public. If he is willing to even comment on it I would take that as he has confidence a deal is going to get done. 

 

Sounds more like they are far apart and would like to close the gap with good understanding of intentions prior to the start of the season.  It sounds like he's prepping us to be ready for Weegar to start the season without a contract.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sounds more like they are far apart and would like to close the gap with good understanding of intentions prior to the start of the season.  It sounds like he's prepping us to be ready for Weegar to start the season without a contract.

Treliving has become a pro in negotiations. Complete silence. Kadri was rumoured and then bang, done deal.  He’s as tight as Yzerman at not running a leaky ship. it’s how GMs have to operate in this league if they want respect from their peers.

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, bosn111 said:

My point about looking for a more suitable LD to play with Andersson was never a knock against Weegar in the slightest, nor was I forgetting cap. I also realize that I left off Kylington, Valimaki, Zadorov, Meloche and Mackey. 1 of those 5 would be the current “young guy” playing with Tanev, 1 likely a 7th D and Stone may be signed as 8 D meaning the other 4 would be trade fodder or hope they clear waivers which would be unlikely for a few of them at least.

 

Weegar / Andersson 

Hanifin / Tanev

Zadorov / Meloche

Kylington / Stone

 

While this appears to be the more likely current scenario (I believe Stone gets signed once a few D get moved), is this actually the best choice?

 

High LD / Andersson 

Hanifin / Weegar

Zadorov / Tanev

Kylington / Meloche or Stone

 

would be a deeper D corps as you would have 3 top pair D plus Hanifin who could play top pair but is better as 2nd pair and a third pair which could be a middle pair on a number of teams and a 7th D who is basically a 2nd pair and your 8D would be 3rd pair on many teams.
 

Essentially looking at a current depth of

 

1st pair Andersson, Weegar

1/2 pair Hanifin

2nd pair Tanev, 
2/3 pair Zadorov, Kylington 

3rd pair Meloche,

3/7th Stone (if signed), Mackey

?? Valimaki (camp may show where he could be )
 

Very good competition to have, but it could be better. No knock on any individual, it is simply how I see the depth. No harm in hoping for an improvement if possible.

 

I for one was not overly impressed with Tanev/Zadorov.  I think you have to look at skills and how they balance out a pairing.  Hanifin with Tanev or Kylington with Tanev worked before, since you have the skating and puck moving to match the defensive skills of Tanev.  Hanifin also worked with Andersson.  Weegar with Andersson makes the most sense to me, since it puts the top two out there for the most minutes.  Kylington (before injury) showed to be one of the best on the team.  Whether that was due to his faults being covered by Tanev or that he's that good remains to be seen, but overall he was top 4.  Zadorov was played with a slow but effective D.  He has another gear, but you have to find the right mix.  The depth guys are suitable #6 on a lot of teams, so we are quite set.

 

I just don't see the logic of using assets (high ones) to bring in another top D.  Chychrun is a LD, so it doesn't balance us out.  And the cost is too much for us.  If you could actually name a target, this would be more constructive, as it allow potential pairs to be considered.  The other thing to consider is we are trying to build and improve on last year, not remake the entire D.  That takes a lot of time.  Integrating Weegar is going to be enough of a challenge.  It potentially shakes up 2 pairs minimum, more likely 3.

 

I would prefer to look at improving the F first.  We should see what camp shakes out, whether we have all the right pieces or need some upgrades.  Dube has to take a big step.  Ruzicka needs to show he is a full timer.  Having 3 solid lines is key, as the 4th line will play closer to 10 minutes.

 

All good discussion, but hard to argue without a target.

[pikey7883]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I for one was not overly impressed with Tanev/Zadorov.  I think you have to look at skills and how they balance out a pairing.  Hanifin with Tanev or Kylington with Tanev worked before, since you have the skating and puck moving to match the defensive skills of Tanev.  Hanifin also worked with Andersson.  Weegar with Andersson makes the most sense to me, since it puts the top two out there for the most minutes.  Kylington (before injury) showed to be one of the best on the team.  Whether that was due to his faults being covered by Tanev or that he's that good remains to be seen, but overall he was top 4.  Zadorov was played with a slow but effective D.  He has another gear, but you have to find the right mix.  The depth guys are suitable #6 on a lot of teams, so we are quite set.

 

I just don't see the logic of using assets (high ones) to bring in another top D.  Chychrun is a LD, so it doesn't balance us out.  And the cost is too much for us.  If you could actually name a target, this would be more constructive, as it allow potential pairs to be considered.  The other thing to consider is we are trying to build and improve on last year, not remake the entire D.  That takes a lot of time.  Integrating Weegar is going to be enough of a challenge.  It potentially shakes up 2 pairs minimum, more likely 3.

 

I would prefer to look at improving the F first.  We should see what camp shakes out, whether we have all the right pieces or need some upgrades.  Dube has to take a big step.  Ruzicka needs to show he is a full timer.  Having 3 solid lines is key, as the 4th line will play closer to 10 minutes.

 

All good discussion, but hard to argue without a target.

I also believe chemistry is important especially for a d pair. It is why I think the best way to strengthen our D is to play Weegar with Big Z. Keep Hani and Andy together and Kyl with Tanev. It’s 3 evenly matched pairings that you can deploy any which way you want, without disrupting 2 pairings. 
If Kyl is out, then either Val or Mackey should fill that spot respectively.

If a trade were to be made to try and further “strengthen” our D, I would consider Kyl and other assets for Chychrun. 
That could give you 3 pairs of 

Hannifin - Anderson

Zadorov - Weegar

Chychrun - Tanev 

Pretty solid

[cross16]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sounds more like they are far apart and would like to close the gap with good understanding of intentions prior to the start of the season.  It sounds like he's prepping us to be ready for Weegar to start the season without a contract.

 

Possibly, but it's just not how he has operated as a GM is all i'm saying. He doesn't prep fans when it comes to contracts. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:

I also believe chemistry is important especially for a d pair. It is why I think the best way to strengthen our D is to play Weegar with Big Z. Keep Hani and Andy together and Kyl with Tanev. It’s 3 evenly matched pairings that you can deploy any which way you want, without disrupting 2 pairings. 
If Kyl is out, then either Val or Mackey should fill that spot respectively.

If a trade were to be made to try and further “strengthen” our D, I would consider Kyl and other assets for Chychrun. 
That could give you 3 pairs of 

Hannifin - Anderson

Zadorov - Weegar

Chychrun - Tanev 

Pretty solid

 

I'm out on Chychrun.  It was possible before we picked up Weegar, but we have nothing left to trade.

Kylington doesn't have enough value to make sense to ARI.

The assets we would have to add would be very high, like a 1st, a top prospect and a top roster player.

 

Weegar will likely play top minutes, so I don't really agree that Zadorov makes the most sense.

With the other pairs, there were some issues during the year.

Nothing was perfect, even if they were very good.

 

I can't provide the evidence, but to me all pairs struggled with some things.

Weegar was good at preventing zone entries.

Weegar and Andersson seem to be built to keep the puck in the O-zone.

Hanifin struggled with that IMHO.

Hanifin was less effective when defending from behind.

Kylington was pretty good at getting back but took risks in the O-zone.

Zadorov was good at disrupting the cycle IMHO and separating the puck from a F.

Tanev was good at defending the net, but struggled with speed in transition.

 

All of this to say that pairs are organic.

There are formulas that you can follow like LHS-RHS or puckmover with shutdown.

But what is more key is chemistry and communication.

Have to see what shakes out from camp and pre-season.

And even the first few weeks of the season.

[robrob74]

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm out on Chychrun.  It was possible before we picked up Weegar, but we have nothing left to trade.

Kylington doesn't have enough value to make sense to ARI.

The assets we would have to add would be very high, like a 1st, a top prospect and a top roster player.

 

Weegar will likely play top minutes, so I don't really agree that Zadorov makes the most sense.

With the other pairs, there were some issues during the year.

Nothing was perfect, even if they were very good.

 

I can't provide the evidence, but to me all pairs struggled with some things.

Weegar was good at preventing zone entries.

Weegar and Andersson seem to be built to keep the puck in the O-zone.

Hanifin struggled with that IMHO.

Hanifin was less effective when defending from behind.

Kylington was pretty good at getting back but took risks in the O-zone.

Zadorov was good at disrupting the cycle IMHO and separating the puck from a F.

Tanev was good at defending the net, but struggled with speed in transition.

 

All of this to say that pairs are organic.

There are formulas that you can follow like LHS-RHS or puckmover with shutdown.

But what is more key is chemistry and communication.

Have to see what shakes out from camp and pre-season.

And even the first few weeks of the season.

 

I wonder:

 

Hanifin, Andersson 

Kylington, Tanev

Zadorov, Weegar

 

roll all three D 5v5.

Weegar and Andersson's minutes get bumped by special teams. Every pair would have a quick D and an average skater. 
 

There is no hierarchy in the pairs. It would also be the least invasive to the pairings we had last year. And I don't like the idea of Kylington or Zadorov playing together. Their IQ's might not make that pair work. Maybe I'm wrong on that one? 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I wonder:

 

Hanifin, Andersson 

Kylington, Tanev

Zadorov, Weegar

 

roll all three D 5v5.

Weegar and Andersson's minutes get bumped by special teams. Every pair would have a quick D and an average skater. 
 

There is no hierarchy in the pairs. It would also be the least invasive to the pairings we had last year. And I don't like the idea of Kylington or Zadorov playing together. Their IQ's might not make that pair work. Maybe I'm wrong on that one? 

 

I think you will see something like that for a pre-season game at the very least.

Without Kylington, we are just trying some things.

Have to see where he fits and whether Tanev is the right choice for Weegar.

You have a good left-right balance, but Weegar played best on LD.

Maybe that's just the best use of Weegar and why he is a top player.

 

[The_People1]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Treliving has become a pro in negotiations. Complete silence. Kadri was rumoured and then bang, done deal.  He’s as tight as Yzerman at not running a leaky ship. it’s how GMs have to operate in this league if they want respect from their peers.

 

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Possibly, but it's just not how he has operated as a GM is all i'm saying. He doesn't prep fans when it comes to contracts. 

 

We heard nothing during the Huberdeau and Mangiapane negotiations.  And then they suddenly signed.  But here, he has to paint a pretty picture so it must be not going to happen until next summer.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I wonder:

 

Hanifin, Andersson 

Kylington, Tanev

Zadorov, Weegar

 

roll all three D 5v5.

Weegar and Andersson's minutes get bumped by special teams. Every pair would have a quick D and an average skater. 
 

There is no hierarchy in the pairs. It would also be the least invasive to the pairings we had last year. And I don't like the idea of Kylington or Zadorov playing together. Their IQ's might not make that pair work. Maybe I'm wrong on that one? 

 

Those pairing are good but I would just play Kylington - Tanev no more than 12-minutes a night to give Tanev "load management".

[sak22]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

We heard nothing during the Huberdeau and Mangiapane negotiations.  And then they suddenly signed.  But here, he has to paint a pretty picture so it must be not going to happen until next summer.

Mang was only a few days before his arbitration, and Huberdeau it was reported they begun negotiations very early.  Didn't know the GM was supposed to come out in August when news is slow just to announce things are getting close.  Never read too much into these things.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Mang was only a few days before his arbitration, and Huberdeau it was reported they begun negotiations very early.  Didn't know the GM was supposed to come out in August when news is slow just to announce things are getting close.  Never read too much into these things.

 

Yups, GM doesn't speak if things are going well.  

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

We heard nothing during the Huberdeau and Mangiapane negotiations.  And then they suddenly signed.  But here, he has to paint a pretty picture so it must be not going to happen until next summer.

 

it's how I feel too. With Gaudreau we heard talk were happening. He tends to play opposite sometimes in info he shares.

[Heartbreaker]

10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

it's how I feel too. With Gaudreau we heard talk were happening. He tends to play opposite sometimes in info he shares.

 

I don't think so, Robbo. I think that he was genuinely convinced that Johnny was going to resign. He seemed pretty upset in his press conference the night before free agency started.

Love.

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yups, GM doesn't speak if things are going well.  

 

This is not true. He spoke out multiple times before they signed Gaudreau/Tkachuk. He made public comments before they re signed Backlund as well. 

 

It's a sample size issue. GMs don't get asked about players that are "easy" to sign they get asked about players that are hard. But for me the fact that Treliving publicly commented on healthy dialoguing and hoping to get it done is rare for him. 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

This is not true. He spoke out multiple times before they signed Gaudreau/Tkachuk. He made public comments before they re signed Backlund as well. 

 

It's a sample size issue. GMs don't get asked about players that are "easy" to sign they get asked about players that are hard. But for me the fact that Treliving publicly commented on healthy dialoguing and hoping to get it done is rare for him. 

 

Ya at the end of the day, it's just subjective interpretation and I don't think anyone is right or wrong to assume anything.  It's like announcing, "we're almost pregnant" and no matter how anyone interprets that, the results don't change.

[The_People1]

Chychrun confirmed trade rumours and that he still wants to be traded.  He would qualify as an upgrade on LD and would be our #1 LD.

 

 

[LouCifer]

On 9/22/2022 at 7:08 PM, The_People1 said:

Chychrun confirmed trade rumours and that he still wants to be traded.  He would qualify as an upgrade on LD and would be our #1 LD.

 

 

⛽️ Has been added to the 🔥 lol

 

I have to say, even though I’m not high on Hanifin, I’m not confident Chych really pushes the needle in comparison. Tho, I’m not an avid Coyotes watcher 😂

 

[Thebrewcrew]

 

[conundrumed]

On 9/24/2022 at 4:11 PM, Thebrewcrew said:

 

No kidding. I believe we got a lot better. The C and D has been addressed. JH is better than JG overall, his intensity is iinsane and contagious. I’d give him the C personally. I really like FLA’s game and roster. Their fans are pretty optimistic. I think they’re in for a rude awakening. 

They’ve lost their 2nd line, weakened their PP and removed a dman that was great for Ekblad. Adding Schwindt and a 1st is an unreal fleecing.

This is how you get Kadri to say, “oh yeah, I seriously want to talk to Calgary”.

Can’t thank JG and Tkachuk enough really. 

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

No kidding. I believe we got a lot better. The C and D has been addressed. JH is better than JG overall, his intensity is iinsane and contagious. I’d give him the C personally. I really like FLA’s game and roster. Their fans are pretty optimistic. I think they’re in for a rude awakening. 

They’ve lost their 2nd line, weakened their PP and removed a dman that was great for Ekblad. Adding Schwindt and a 1st is an unreal fleecing.

This is how you get Kadri to say, “oh yeah, I seriously want to talk to Calgary”.

Can’t thank JG and Tkachuk enough really. 

 

JG is going to help guys in CBJ for sure, but they got rid of one of their best players.  

Laine is very much in the same level of dedication as JG; will quit on plays when it gets tough.

Actually, Laine has more heart.

 

We now have two players that drive the net, and gave up only one that played near the crease.

His antics in the crease area will not be missed.

Kadri will drive goalies and D-men insane with their attacks.

Hubie with soft hands will score in tight.

Haven't really had that.

Hubie looked this good without being used to the elevation.

He said he was gassed in the first 3 minutes.

Kadri will not even notice.

[The_People1]

57 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

No kidding. I believe we got a lot better. The C and D has been addressed. JH is better than JG overall, his intensity is iinsane and contagious. I’d give him the C personally. I really like FLA’s game and roster. Their fans are pretty optimistic. I think they’re in for a rude awakening. 

They’ve lost their 2nd line, weakened their PP and removed a dman that was great for Ekblad. Adding Schwindt and a 1st is an unreal fleecing.

This is how you get Kadri to say, “oh yeah, I seriously want to talk to Calgary”.

Can’t thank JG and Tkachuk enough really. 

 

Only sadness I have is we traded Tkachuk and didn't land a #1 Center.