2021 Offseason Thread

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

If Seattle selects Gio it leaves a massive hole in the top 4, I don't think that's discussed enough.

 

The UFA market for D isn't good, especially LHD.

Alec Martinez is the best, but he's 33 and coming off a career year, warning signs there. 

If I was to bet on a player developing into a solid top 4, I would take a chance on Jamie Oleksiak

 

Might have to look at the trade market. Maybe Monahan can net you a 2nd pairing D

 

Backup goalie is another interesting need. I wouldn't be spending much on a backup as they will only be starting 20 times at most, under Sutter.

Ideally I'd only be spending 750k-1mill on a backup. It's not a great year for UFA goalies though.

I dont believe its as big of an issue. For the most part Gio could have been slotted in on the 3rd pair with 3rd pairing minutes and the team wouldnt have worse off overall.  Yes he is still serviceable especially in a mentoring capacity but if he is still played as top pair next season then that tells everyone they have no replacement plan once he's gone.

 

Barring any additions or subtractions

 

Hanifin - Andersson

Valimaki - Tanev

Gio - Yelesin/Mackey/Kylington/Poolman (whichever)

[Thebrewcrew]

15 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dont believe its as big of an issue. For the most part Gio could have been slotted in on the 3rd pair with 3rd pairing minutes and the team wouldnt have worse off overall.  Yes he is still serviceable especially in a mentoring capacity but if he is still played as top pair next season then that tells everyone they have no replacement plan once he's gone.

 

Barring any additions or subtractions

 

Hanifin - Andersson

Valimaki - Tanev

Gio - Yelesin/Mackey/Kylington/Poolman (whichever)

The issue would be the coach. He wasn't a big fan of Valimaki this year, I can't imagine he'd be thrilled with having to essentially gift a young player a top 4 job.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I dont believe its as big of an issue. For the most part Gio could have been slotted in on the 3rd pair with 3rd pairing minutes and the team wouldnt have worse off overall.  Yes he is still serviceable especially in a mentoring capacity but if he is still played as top pair next season then that tells everyone they have no replacement plan once he's gone.

 

Barring any additions or subtractions

 

Hanifin - Andersson

Valimaki - Tanev

Gio - Yelesin/Mackey/Kylington/Poolman (whichever)

 

I also think it tells us what we already suspect, that they play favourites to the vets and don’t value or bother to develop the youth into those roles. Why would anyone sign here if this continues? Some say Calgary has been attractive to some free agents, mainly those coming from other leagues, but I think that’s because on paper there are opportunities, yet not necessarily given true chances.

[cross16]

 

11 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The issue would be the coach. He wasn't a big fan of Valimaki this year, I can't imagine he'd be thrilled with having to essentially gift a young player a top 4 job.

 

Story of the Calgary Flames for quite some time as it relates to development.

 

I'm with others, I don't' see it as that much of a loss. I'm actually in the camp that Gio played relatively well this year and didn't lose the step that some thought but I also thikn the level of game he put out there last year would be easily replaced by Valimaki. 

 

Hanifin- Anderson

Valimaki - Tanev

Mackey - Stone/Savard/Schenn/Bogosian

 

I have no problem with that D core. 

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Story of the Calgary Flames for quite some time as it relates to development.

 

I'm with others, I don't' see it as that much of a loss. I'm actually in the camp that Gio played relatively well this year and didn't lose the step that some thought but I also thikn the level of game he put out there last year would be easily replaced by Valimaki. 

 

Hanifin- Anderson

Valimaki - Tanev

Mackey - Stone/Savard/Schenn/Bogosian

 

I have no problem with that D core. 

 

i actually thought he was playing at the same pace but maybe going left instead of right or taking a step forward instead of back, meaning, once he took the wrong turn he had to catch up. He looked the same speed, but even Hanifin looks slow when he does those kinds of things. 

[sak22]

10 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I also think it tells us what we already suspect, that they play favourites to the vets and don’t value or bother to develop the youth into those roles. Why would anyone sign here if this continues? Some say Calgary has been attractive to some free agents, mainly those coming from other leagues, but I think that’s because on paper there are opportunities, yet not necessarily given true chances.

I don't know if I agree with that.  Top of my head the international free agents signed over the past decade are Cervenka, Pribyl, Rittich, Zagidulin, Yelesin, Lerby and Kinvall.  Maybe missing a couple, but Cervenka was gifted a top 9 role on the Flames, Rittich played 130 games and had a chance to be the #1, Pribyl had injury issues, I don't know if Zagidulin or Yelesin have really wowed in the AHL, and Lerby just came over this year.  I think its good signing these guys, but I don't believe they deserve chances if they don't perform in the A or dominate in camp.  And as far as the college free agents, Mackey has already gotten a handful of games, Hathaway became a fulltime NHLer, Jooris got a pretty decent chance, Lomberg got a decent audition, Foo got games but showed no progression the next year and went to China.  The reality is most of them aren't NHL players, but I don't find it as a shortcoming of the organization, if anything I'd say it along with the later round picks are the strength, with more of the early round drafting being the main weakness.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Story of the Calgary Flames for quite some time as it relates to development.

 

I'm with others, I don't' see it as that much of a loss. I'm actually in the camp that Gio played relatively well this year and didn't lose the step that some thought but I also thikn the level of game he put out there last year would be easily replaced by Valimaki. 

 

Hanifin- Anderson

Valimaki - Tanev

Mackey - Stone/Savard/Schenn/Bogosian

 

I have no problem with that D core. 

 

 

Gio produced similar numbers to other years he was the top played D-man.

Down from a couple stud years, but about the same as normal years.

My issue was that he was the top played and top pair D-man.

No easing in anyone to replace him.

No long term plan and no coach willing to sit him for any stretch of time.

 

I would really like to upgrade the D top pair myself.

Hanifin is close, Ras a bit farther away.

Really, if Ras was given a bit more sheltering, I would be happier.

 

To do that, you would need to bring in a top 2D.

Trade Monahan + to CBJ for Jones, who may not even want to sign there after next year.

It would need to be a good offer, but it would set our D up for years to come.

Would allow us to pace our D so that we eventually retire Tanev.

Too late to adequately plan for Gio's retirement.

 

Hanifin-Jones

Valimaki-Tanev

Mackey-Ras

Stone

 

Re-signing Jones would come from money saved not paying Gio.

We have vets playing with young potential stars.

Mackey-Ras develop their skills without being thrown to the wolves.

 

[LouCifer]

Or, send Mony to Minny for Dumba. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Gio produced similar numbers to other years he was the top played D-man.

Down from a couple stud years, but about the same as normal years.

My issue was that he was the top played and top pair D-man.

No easing in anyone to replace him.

No long term plan and no coach willing to sit him for any stretch of time.

 

I would really like to upgrade the D top pair myself.

Hanifin is close, Ras a bit farther away.

Really, if Ras was given a bit more sheltering, I would be happier.

 

To do that, you would need to bring in a top 2D.

Trade Monahan + to CBJ for Jones, who may not even want to sign there after next year.

It would need to be a good offer, but it would set our D up for years to come.

Would allow us to pace our D so that we eventually retire Tanev.

Too late to adequately plan for Gio's retirement.

 

Hanifin-Jones

Valimaki-Tanev

Mackey-Ras

Stone

 

Re-signing Jones would come from money saved not paying Gio.

We have vets playing with young potential stars.

Mackey-Ras develop their skills without being thrown to the wolves.

 

Ras took a step back this year but I attribute alot of that being paired with Gio, put him back with Hanifin and you'll see both come back to previous form.

 

My only issue with that set up is you're paying over $4.5 mil for a 3rd pair d-man for the next 3-5 years. Ras wont develop any more playing bottom pair.

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Ras took a step back this year but I attribute alot of that being paired with Gio, put him back with Hanifin and you'll see both come back to previous form.

 

My only issue with that set up is you're paying over $4.5 mil for a 3rd pair d-man for the next 3-5 years. Ras wont develop any more playing bottom pair.

 

If you give the bottom pair 12 minutes you would be correct.

Balance the minutes a bit more even, and give the special teams minutes out to more than just a Gio.

My other comment is that Tanev has 3 years left.

 

I was thinking Jones would cost less than $9m, so I think I need to go back to the drawing board.

My concern without a top 2D is that our RD consists of Tanev and Ras.  

And we only have Hanifin and Valimaki and Mackey.

That's not a lot of experience or real toughness.

[robrob74]

12 hours ago, sak22 said:

I don't know if I agree with that.  Top of my head the international free agents signed over the past decade are Cervenka, Pribyl, Rittich, Zagidulin, Yelesin, Lerby and Kinvall.  Maybe missing a couple, but Cervenka was gifted a top 9 role on the Flames, Rittich played 130 games and had a chance to be the #1, Pribyl had injury issues, I don't know if Zagidulin or Yelesin have really wowed in the AHL, and Lerby just came over this year.  I think its good signing these guys, but I don't believe they deserve chances if they don't perform in the A or dominate in camp.  And as far as the college free agents, Mackey has already gotten a handful of games, Hathaway became a fulltime NHLer, Jooris got a pretty decent chance, Lomberg got a decent audition, Foo got games but showed no progression the next year and went to China.  The reality is most of them aren't NHL players, but I don't find it as a shortcoming of the organization, if anything I'd say it along with the later round picks are the strength, with more of the early round drafting being the main weakness.

 

ya. And I think what I was meaning in my post was that we haven’t had the high end UFA signings, Calgary as an attractive destination. Although this past season was good with Tanev and Markstrom signings. But I think I meant that the depth or lack of depth helps other free agents sign. So I think I am agreeing with your points. They signed and we’ve had mixed success with them. Some making it and doing well, while others showed no progress.

 

also agree that they have had a bit more success with some depth picks. 
 

I wish they had Kucherov higher on their list, higher than the guy they took a spot before them. They had the thought, but just wrong order with some of these guys. 

[The_People1]

On 5/26/2021 at 6:32 PM, Thebrewcrew said:

If Seattle selects Gio it leaves a massive hole in the top 4, I don't think that's discussed enough.

 

Even if Seattle doesn't select Giordano, Giordano's better days are behind him.  His advanced stats are still good but he leaves the Flames without a true #1 Dman.  We should also look at load management because at Giordano's age, it's best to play him 22-minutes a night max so he doesn't tire out late season.  

 

All this talk about Eichel, I wonder if Dahlin is the player we should target.  Price should be similar.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Even if Seattle doesn't select Giordano, Giordano's better days are behind him.  His advanced stats are still good but he leaves the Flames without a true #1 Dman.  We should also look at load management because at Giordano's age, it's best to play him 22-minutes a night max so he doesn't tire out late season.  

 

All this talk about Eichel, I wonder if Dahlin is the player we should target.  Price should be similar.

 

Maybe we target Dumba.

Trade Backlund and Gio so there isn't any hurt feelings or locker room issues.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Maybe we target Dumba.

Trade Backlund and Gio so there isn't any hurt feelings or locker room issues.

 

We should trade Backlund and Gio anyways regardless.

[MP5029]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

We should trade Backlund and Gio anyways regardless.

I agree 

[travel_dude]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

We should trade Backlund and Gio anyways regardless.

Oh, no doubt in my mind.

I'm just thinking that these two are part of the fabric of the Flames over the last 10 years.

Many complain about the culture, but never are either considered to be part of the problem.

Good community people.

 

Both still contribute to the Flames team, but also have been playing some of the highest minutes for their positions.

Are we satisfied with that or did we want to improve?

[The_People1]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Oh, no doubt in my mind.

I'm just thinking that these two are part of the fabric of the Flames over the last 10 years.

Many complain about the culture, but never are either considered to be part of the problem.

Good community people.

 

Both still contribute to the Flames team, but also have been playing some of the highest minutes for their positions.

Are we satisfied with that or did we want to improve?

 

Well, Giordano stands a good chance to be taken in the expansion draft because the Flames are exposing virtually nothing.  Hopefully he does get taken and that forces Sutter to play Valimaki in a top 4 role next season.  Otherwise, Valimaki will rot on the bottom pair and the press box.  I mean, we should trade Giordano anyways to spite Sutter.  That would be fun.  Sutter has come right up to the edge of basically calling BT dumb for having two young kids in the top 4 already.  Let there be 3 next season!

 

Backlund submits a 10-team trade list beginning of next season... if we aren't a playoff team again by TDL, then man, let's trade him and get a young piece back.

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well, Giordano stands a good chance to be taken in the expansion draft because the Flames are exposing virtually nothing.  Hopefully he does get taken and that forces Sutter to play Valimaki in a top 4 role next season.  Otherwise, Valimaki will rot on the bottom pair and the press box.  I mean, we should trade Giordano anyways to spite Sutter.  That would be fun.  Sutter has come right up to the edge of basically calling BT dumb for having two young kids in the top 4 already.  Let there be 3 next season!

 

Backlund submits a 10-team trade list beginning of next season... if we aren't a playoff team again by TDL, then man, let's trade him and get a young piece back.

 

I agree with this.  Many do not, but I think the only way to re-make the team is without Gio and Backlund.

It may hurt short term, but we have to get over this idea that they are the true leaders on this team.

The team has failed at every stage.

 

Backlund probably has enough GM's that like his play over say Nuge.

Nuge could be seen as a top 6 C, but man the rumours of him expecting over $7m in FA or even with the Oilers are insane.

Holland won't pay a penny over $7m?

Jeeze, I hope Nuge signs for that there.

Backlund could bring back a decent #3C or a top 6 RW.

Hear that CBJ and OTT looking for an experienced top 6 C.

Perfect fit.

 

[MP5029]

On 5/30/2021 at 5:22 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I agree with this.  Many do not, but I think the only way to re-make the team is without Gio and Backlund.

It may hurt short term, but we have to get over this idea that they are the true leaders on this team.

The team has failed at every stage.

 

Backlund probably has enough GM's that like his play over say Nuge.

Nuge could be seen as a top 6 C, but man the rumours of him expecting over $7m in FA or even with the Oilers are insane.

Holland won't pay a penny over $7m?

Jeeze, I hope Nuge signs for that there.

Backlund could bring back a decent #3C or a top 6 RW.

Hear that CBJ and OTT looking for an experienced top 6 C.

Perfect fit.

 

Yes true a perfect fit for them but who on CBL or Ott is a fit here? Well one that they are willing to give back in a trade? 

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Yes true a perfect fit for them but who on CBL or Ott is a fit here? Well one that they are willing to give back in a trade? 

 

How about Backlund to FLA for Bennett.

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

How about Backlund to FLA for Bennett.

🤣🤣🤣 that would be funny, and although I was an advocate for Bennett I think that ship has sailed...but having said that...we do really need to rebuild our Ctr depth again.

 

Monahan is great, but is becoming a bit injury prone so he’s probably best suited for 2nd line role which is fine...

 

we would still need a bonafide no 1 Ctr as Lindholm is best at RW, probably 2nd line with Monahan and either Gaudreau or Tachuck 

 

so, the top line needs a Ctr and a RW

 

the third line needs a Ctr...LW and RW can be filled short term by Manji and Dube but we need to figure out who of those two to keep and trade the other, both are kinda the same small scrappy type, and this team badly needs some size with skill and foot speed...

 

4th line has Lucic on LW kinda stuck with him, not that he’s bad as a 4th just paid far too much for his role there...but again we need a Ctr and RW 

 

all and all, there are some important holes to fill but not impossible to fix, but UFA this year is not gonna help no really gotta gets this year outside of RNH...which I’m not sure he’s a fit for top line Ctr duty...2nd for sure but we still have Monahan...RNH would be a lateral move at best and for the price he will demand probably not a good target for this team.

 

the D is a bit less work, though they do need to figure out what to do with Gio...he’s not 1st line D anymore but could be a great mentor on 3rd pair of the want to keep him, if not they gotta trade him for something...I’m of the opinion the top two pair should shake out like this (not necessarily in this order but pairing wise:

 

Valimaki/Anderson

Hanifin/Tanev 

 

that should shake out good, and if we put Gio on the 3rd we really only need a RSD which maybe could be from the prospect pool or trade or whatever...maybe FA but I’d be super cautious going FA it’s not been a great thing for this team say maybe for last year...personally I’d take a chance on the prospect pool maybe even Pair Gio with Kylington see if he can get him up to his potential?

 

this would allow BT to focus on the forward group which clearly needs the most work and attention.

 

obviously the back up situation needs some attention but I’m thinking either we bring Wolf up to understudy or FA maybe bring back Ritich...but personally I’d bring Wolf up to learn and develop...hopefully Sutter plays him..though this is not a strong area of Sutter, he’s more of a ride one workhorse goalie...remember Kipper? But maybe he’s learned from that and will try and develop Wolf via playing him.

 

All this is to say, the goalie and D situation is not in horrible shape but need a firm direction and to get it settled out soon as possible, it would provide some stability for the team leading into 2021 season and a bit beyond of managed properly then focus, attention and effort can be placed on where it’s needed on rebuilding that horrid forward group.

 

again, jut my opinion, based on what here now...but I will say this, it’s gonna be a 2 year project at best.

 

it’s either this, which with Sutter being here for the sole purpose of winning a cup in 3 years here...well 2 now, or..

 

it’s a total rebuild and every one and thing must go...I don’t see this...

 

having said all this, it’s not unreasonable to get this team turned around over a year or two but it’s gonna be a delicate situation which needs to be managed just right and maybe a little luck too. 

[bosn111]

Here are a couple thoughts that are somewhat opposed to each other, but both could be reasonable moves. They are based on Giordano being taken by Seattle.

 

Mackey showed quite well known in limited viewing and has done well at the IIHF worlds. With Giordano gone we still have Hanifin, with Valimaki and Mackey RFA but fairly easy re-sign on LD. On the right side Andersson and Tanev. Stone is a serviceable and willing 7th D. So the Flames need a RD to fill out the lineup.

 

So option 1 to keep Sutter happy would be to sign either Brandon Montour (preferred) out of Florida or David Savard out of Tampa. Both experienced RD that would fit anywhere.

 

Option 2 would give Sutter fits but would set the team up better long term. Trade with Detroit for Moritz Seider. He has a lot of potential, size and skill though limited North American experience and no NHL games played. You could platoon Stone and Seider to help the young guy develop. This would also be easier on the cap.

 

I think both are good options and wouldn’t mind both moves as Seider could maybe use a year or 2 in the AHL as well.

 

Just my thoughts anyways.

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, bosn111 said:

So option 1 to keep Sutter happy would be to sign either Brandon Montour (preferred) out of Florida or David Savard out of Tampa. Both experienced RD that would fit anywhere.

 

Regardless of Gio's status, we should be in on Montour.

I doubt we can afford unless Gio is taken though.

Both will be relatively expensive, especially Montour.

I'm wondering who FLA protects and exposes now.

Yandle has a NMC, and they have at least 2-3 more they should try to protect.

They will probably wait on Seattle to see if they sign Montour, otherwise one of Weegar, Gudas or Nutivaara would need protection. 

It didn't make much sense for us to trade a 3rd to FLA for him at TDL, but definitely a player that could have helped us.

[cross16]

Looks like Nordstrom won't be back according to this. 

 

Only newsworthy because the Flames still need another forward signed who meets exposure rules. Down to Ryan, Leivo, Ritchie or Simon that will need a contract to meet the requirement. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Looks like Nordstrom won't be back according to this. 

 

Only newsworthy because the Flames still need another forward signed who meets exposure rules. Down to Ryan, Leivo, Ritchie or Simon that will need a contract to meet the requirement. 

 

 

 

I'm a little confused over the timing.

The qualifying offer is not due until after the expansion draft.

I've heard both sides of the issue where we can expose a un-signed RFA where other say they don't count and must be signed or issued the QO first.

Do you know which it is?

 

As little impact as Leivo was, I would still consider him a low risk signing.