2021 Offseason Thread

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, lou44291 said:

For me, Seattle would be stupid not to grab Gio and Hamilton on D. They played together, have some chemistry, and as far as I’m concerned are as close to a slam dunk that you can get in the game of hockey. Seattle not picking up those 2 for their defense would be beyond foolish in my opinion, as Gio alone could net you additional assets at the deadline - or - could re-sign at a lower AAV like  Engelland and mentor that defense. 
 

PS> I like the JO idea a lot. 

 

Except Giordano is 1-year from retirement and Hamilton is going UFA to Toronto or somewhere out East.  CAR is probably not even protecting Hamilton because they have a handshake and contract agreed upon for him to return next season.

[The_People1]

On 6/19/2021 at 3:27 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I would be more comfortable in trading Hanifin if Valimaki had taken a step this season.

I think he's poised to do that, but it being held back by Dutter.

We need to move on from Gio sooner than later.

Signing JO now would make that much smoother.

We could make the Gio trade during the season if he's not claimed.

Might actually get some decent value back, even if we had to retain a bit.

 

I feel like Hanifin plateau'd.  He was good but no matter how well he plays, he still leaves everyone wanting more from him.  Defensively, just not sound enough.  Offensively, just doesn't have enough tools.  He's good but never will be great.

 

Just play Valimaki with Tanev.  Trade Hanifin.

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, lou44291 said:

For me, Seattle would be stupid not to grab Gio and Hamilton on D. They played together, have some chemistry, and as far as I’m concerned are as close to a slam dunk that you can get in the game of hockey. Seattle not picking up those 2 for their defense would be beyond foolish in my opinion, as Gio alone could net you additional assets at the deadline - or - could re-sign at a lower AAV like  Engelland and mentor that defense. 
 

PS> I like the JO idea a lot. 

 

Maybe, but Gio has control over his future.

He can limit the trade options from Seattle.

He can choose to sign as a UFA after one year if they haven't been able to trade him.

For all the reasons it makes sense to claim him, there are as many reasons not to.

 

Don't get me wrong, that would solve a problem for us and also create a hole.

 

[jjgallow]

 

I wonder if the Flames would ever have interest in Ryan Papaioannou?

 

[LouCifer]

On 6/21/2021 at 11:37 AM, travel_dude said:

 

Maybe, but Gio has control over his future.

He can limit the trade options from Seattle.

He can choose to sign as a UFA after one year if they haven't been able to trade him.

For all the reasons it makes sense to claim him, there are as many reasons not to.

 

Don't get me wrong, that would solve a problem for us and also create a hole.

 

So who do you think Seattle takes from us then TD?
 

IMO, Slim pickings beyond Gio, no? Not to mention, you get a free pass to take a player from a team and you waste it on someone like Kylington, but leave Gio on the board? Picking anyone outside of BPA would seem pretty foolish IMO. And I don’t believe Gio’s NTC will be that big of an issue, personally. From an asset perspective, and competitive in year 1 perspective, I think they gotta take Gio. 

[The_People1]

Why didn't the Flames trade Giordano at the TDL?

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, lou44291 said:

So who do you think Seattle takes from us then TD?
 

IMO, Slim pickings beyond Gio, no? Not to mention, you get a free pass to take a player from a team and you waste it on someone like Kylington, but leave Gio on the board? Picking anyone outside of BPA would seem pretty foolish IMO. And I don’t believe Gio’s NTC will be that big of an issue, personally. From an asset perspective, and competitive in year 1 perspective, I think they gotta take Gio. 

 

I mean they have some choices, right?

Gio. Lucic, Simon, Kylington, Phillips, Gawdin, Ryan, Leivo, Parsons, Stone.

 

Leivo, Ryan, Phillips and Gawdin are probably the players that still have years left.

Ryan makes the most sense, followed by Leivo Philips and Gawdin.

Gio is a short term player that makes sense but you are building a team, not going for the cup.  

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Why didn't the Flames trade Giordano at the TDL?

 

That should have made the most sense, right?

Did he have a season that raised eyebrows?

Top pair strugggled a lot this season.

Worth 6.75m prorated to any team?

Maybe Tampa, but BT would have ended up sending a 1st and Gio for a 4th.

Never have seen him do a complicated trade like that.

[The_People1]

37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

That should have made the most sense, right?

Did he have a season that raised eyebrows?

Top pair strugggled a lot this season.

Worth 6.75m prorated to any team?

Maybe Tampa, but BT would have ended up sending a 1st and Gio for a 4th.

Never have seen him do a complicated trade like that.

 

Now we have to send away a 1st to protect him from the expansion draft?  That's a swing of two 1st round picks.  Absolute horrible if this plays out this way.

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Now we have to send away a 1st to protect him from the expansion draft?  That's a swing of two 1st round picks.  Absolute horrible if this plays out this way.

 

If it unfolds that way, absolutely.

On the other hand if Seattle selects Gio and trades him for a 1st, we have gotten nothing.

[cross16]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Why didn't the Flames trade Giordano at the TDL?

 

Several plausible options. 

 

1. The Flames don't want to lose him. 

2. I doubt there was a trade market for him. Between his Modified NTC and another year at 6.75 most contenders can't fit that unless they are shipping back money. 

3. The Flames are prepared to lose him in the expansion draft in order to keep others

 

I don't get this idea that people actually think the Flames are going to spend a 1 to keep Gio, it isn't going to happen. A 3rd or a 4th? sure but it's not going to happen for more than that. 

[robrob74]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Now we have to send away a 1st to protect him from the expansion draft?  That's a swing of two 1st round picks.  Absolute horrible if this plays out this way.

 

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If it unfolds that way, absolutely.

On the other hand if Seattle selects Gio and trades him for a 1st, we have gotten nothing.

 

if Gio only nets a 2nd at the TDL, do you still do it?

 

What is the lowest pick you’d take?

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

if Gio only nets a 2nd at the TDL, do you still do it?

 

What is the lowest pick you’d take?

 

If I wasn't clear, I would offer nothing more than a 3rd (Oilers pick) to protect him.

I think that was Cross's suggestion, but I'm not even happy doing that.

I would then trade him this TDL for hopefully a better return.

It was a little different last TDL, since he had a full year remaining, and those only work if a team will build with said player.

 

I think it's acceptable risk exposing Gio.

Worse case, we have to replace him with a younger D in FA.

We have to do that sooner than later anyway.

Could we not get a capable top 4 D-man for less than $6.75m?

[robrob74]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If I wasn't clear, I would offer nothing more than a 3rd (Oilers pick) to protect him.

I think that was Cross's suggestion, but I'm not even happy doing that.

I would then trade him this TDL for hopefully a better return.

It was a little different last TDL, since he had a full year remaining, and those only work if a team will build with said player.

 

I think it's acceptable risk exposing Gio.

Worse case, we have to replace him with a younger D in FA.

We have to do that sooner than later anyway.

Could we not get a capable top 4 D-man for less than $6.75m?

I don’t think I was clear then. I am assuming Seattle doesn’t take him and we trade him at the TDL.  Would you trade him for as low as a 2nd rounder or later? 

[travel_dude]

44 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I don’t think I was clear then. I am assuming Seattle doesn’t take him and we trade him at the TDL.  Would you trade him for as low as a 2nd rounder or later? 

 

Sounds undervalued to me.

TBH, he should have as much value as Savard, who got a 1st.

Mind you, we would need to retain salary if it was a cap team.

[robrob74]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sounds undervalued to me.

TBH, he should have as much value as Savard, who got a 1st.

Mind you, we would need to retain salary if it was a cap team.

 

I am all for retaining of that gets you a 1st. I think I would only go as low as a 2nd rounder, but if retaining it’s definitely a 1st. 
 

Are teams allowed to retain cap space too? I think the answer is yes, so why not, IF we aren’t in a playoff spot by then.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I am all for retaining of that gets you a 1st. I think I would only go as low as a 2nd rounder, but if retaining it’s definitely a 1st. 
 

Are teams allowed to retain cap space too? I think the answer is yes, so why not, IF we aren’t in a playoff spot by then.

 

In Gio's case it doesn't even matter because he is $6.75m in actual and cap.

We could easily offer to retain half (prorated of course in season).

I don't pay those bills though.

A smart GM has that in his pocket to up the ante.

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Several plausible options. 

 

1. The Flames don't want to lose him. 

2. I doubt there was a trade market for him. Between his Modified NTC and another year at 6.75 most contenders can't fit that unless they are shipping back money. 

3. The Flames are prepared to lose him in the expansion draft in order to keep others

 

I don't get this idea that people actually think the Flames are going to spend a 1 to keep Gio, it isn't going to happen. A 3rd or a 4th? sure but it's not going to happen for more than that. 

 

Listening to BT a few weeks back on his post mortem of the season, it sounds like they were going to begin to evaluate the situation.

 

This is the kind of short sighted management-speak that scares me.  What does he mean he's going to begin evaluations now?  He needs to know what the team looks like come expansion draft a year ago.

[travel_dude]

43 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Listening to BT a few weeks back on his post mortem of the season, it sounds like they were going to begin to evaluate the situation.

 

This is the kind of short sighted management-speak that scares me.  What does he mean he's going to begin evaluations now?  He needs to know what the team looks like come expansion draft a year ago.

 

I think he is always reluctant to discuss in the media.

Last summer he may have felt that protecting Gio over Tanev because he wasn't sure what either would be like.

Or at the time, he may have had plans to trade for another D or other forwards.

 

I don't know.  To me it sounds like he didn't want to say Gio was being exposed.

You want to tell Gio that during the season or on the last media availability?

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think he is always reluctant to discuss in the media.

Last summer he may have felt that protecting Gio over Tanev because he wasn't sure what either would be like.

Or at the time, he may have had plans to trade for another D or other forwards.

 

I don't know.  To me it sounds like he didn't want to say Gio was being exposed.

You want to tell Gio that during the season or on the last media availability?

 

 

Hopefully, BT will expose Giordano and not do any last minute funny stuff to keep him costing us picks and prospects.

 

As for our D, I assume Giordano is gone.  we could use part of his cap hit to target Oleksiak.  His size, defending, and veteran leadership is what Sutter is looking for.  Sutter openly said Hanifin, Andersson, and Valimaki are too young.  Hanifin, Valimaki, and Oleksiak are a good set of LD to move forward with.  I'm guessing it's going to take $4-mil x 4-years to sign Oleksiak.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Listening to BT a few weeks back on his post mortem of the season, it sounds like they were going to begin to evaluate the situation.

 

This is the kind of short sighted management-speak that scares me.  What does he mean he's going to begin evaluations now?  He needs to know what the team looks like come expansion draft a year ago.

 

I did not get the same impression. He's made several remarks that he has frequent conversations with Francis. Both he and Gio both commented in their separate pressers they've had dialogue on this already. Honesty until I listened to it I didn't think the Flames exposing Gio was even remotely a possibility. I think you can excuse Trelving of a lot of things but being short sighted is not one of them IMO, he's pretty thorough. 

 

Every post season press conference with BT is going to have the "we'll now begin the process" but that's just GM speak IMO. Almost all of them say it. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I did not get the same impression. He's made several remarks that he has frequent conversations with Francis. Both he and Gio both commented in their separate pressers they've had dialogue on this already. Honesty until I listened to it I didn't think the Flames exposing Gio was even remotely a possibility. I think you can excuse Trelving of a lot of things but being short sighted is not one of them IMO, he's pretty thorough. 

 

Every post season press conference with BT is going to have the "we'll now begin the process" but that's just GM speak IMO. Almost all of them say it. 

 

I know I know.  GM speak.  Let's hope we expose Giordano and be done with it.

[cross16]

Looks like Tocchet won't get the Seattle job so see if that rumor about the Flames was true. I would be surprised if it was. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Looks like Tocchet won't get the Seattle job so see if that rumor about the Flames was true. I would be surprised if it was. 

 

 

 

So it's Dave Hakstol as the new coach.

[travel_dude]

As of right now, we do not have anyone other than Gio or Tanev that we can expose that actually meet the exposure requirements.

Kylington - not enough last or two most recent seasons, unsigned RFA

Petrovik - same, UFA

Stone - meets the 2 year minimum number of games (54 exactly 🙂 ), but not signed.

Nesterov - gone

 

Also we need to sign a forward to meet the requirements