2021 Offseason Thread

[The_People1]

44 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Looks like Nordstrom won't be back according to this. 

 

Only newsworthy because the Flames still need another forward signed who meets exposure rules. Down to Ryan, Leivo, Ritchie or Simon that will need a contract to meet the requirement. 

 

 

 

Good luck to Nordstrom.  He started slow but eventually got going and became somewhat useful.  He wasn't ever stellar and we need to upgrade on the 4th line and PK.  Sutter wants grit on the 4th line.

 

I think the obvious re-signing here is Ritchie.  Shouldn't cost much.  $800k x 2-years should do it.  Ritchie gives us a lot of what we've lost since Hathaway left.  I would also like to see Ryan back at $1-mil-per.  But again, "grit" so... doesn't bode well for Ryan.  We can probably get ready for the David Mosses to take over the 4th line... Those types like Trevor Lewis, Kyle Clifford, Dwight King, etc.  Ritchie fits this mold.

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Good luck to Nordstrom.  He started slow but eventually got going and became somewhat useful.  He wasn't ever stellar and we need to upgrade on the 4th line and PK.  Sutter wants grit on the 4th line.

 

I think the obvious re-signing here is Ritchie.  Shouldn't cost much.  $800k x 2-years should do it.  Ritchie gives us a lot of what we've lost since Hathaway left.  I would also like to see Ryan back at $1-mil-per.  But again, "grit" so... doesn't bode well for Ryan.  We can probably get ready for the David Mosses to take over the 4th line... Those types like Trevor Lewis, Kyle Clifford, Dwight King, etc.  Ritchie fits this mold.

 

Hathaway kills penalties, while Ritchie does not.

We are missing a 4th line of grit, speed and scoring ability.

Signing Ritchie solves one issue.

Still need speed, scoring and penalty killing.

 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm a little confused over the timing.

The qualifying offer is not due until after the expansion draft.

I've heard both sides of the issue where we can expose a un-signed RFA where other say they don't count and must be signed or issued the QO first.

Do you know which it is?

 

As little impact as Leivo was, I would still consider him a low risk signing. 

 

In order to meet the exposure requirements they need to be under contract for the 21-22 season, a qualifying offer does not work.  Un signed RFAs can be exposed for the purposes of being selected, but they will not satisfy the exposure rules. 

 

For example Phillips. He will be an RFA and likely to be exposed but he does not meet their exposure requirements so they still need that 2nd forward under contract. 

 

I guess an assumption I have made in all of this is that the Flames will protect, Johnny, Mony, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Backlund, Dube and Mang. There is a scenario where perhaps Seattle has indicated they have no interest in one of those players and the Flames could expose them and meet the requirements. It feels very unlikely but it is a possibility so perhaps they don't actually have to sign someone. 

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

In order to meet the exposure requirements they need to be under contract for the 21-22 season, a qualifying offer does not work.  Un signed RFAs can be exposed for the purposes of being selected, but they will not satisfy the exposure rules. 

 

For example Phillips. He will be an RFA and likely to be exposed but he does not meet their exposure requirements so they still need that 2nd forward under contract. 

 

I guess an assumption I have made in all of this is that the Flames will protect, Johnny, Mony, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Backlund, Dube and Mang. There is a scenario where perhaps Seattle has indicated they have no interest in one of those players and the Flames could expose them and meet the requirements. It feels very unlikely but it is a possibility so perhaps they don't actually have to sign someone. 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

I guess I was less concerned about meeting the exposure over who they can select.

I mean they could re-sign Ryan, but why do that before the draft.

He wants to be here next year, but signing now might make it more enticing to select him.

He has no choice in that respect.

They have every right to work a deal with him as their selection, but he has the choice.

Might actually get a decent contract,.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Hathaway kills penalties, while Ritchie does not.

We are missing a 4th line of grit, speed and scoring ability.

Signing Ritchie solves one issue.

Still need speed, scoring and penalty killing.

 

 

Those other needs will come from Nordstrom and Ryan's replacement.

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Those other needs will come from Nordstrom and Ryan's replacement.

I don’t believe it is that easy to find quality 4th liners like that. It’s easy to fill the spots, like how we got Nordstrom and Reider and so on. Ryan might have been a harder (expensive) find. Some say for how versatile he is that he’s good money. But using 3+M on the 4th is bad. I think it’s easy to find just anyone, but is it easy to find effective 4th liners?

[The_People1]

21 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I don’t believe it is that easy to find quality 4th liners like that. It’s easy to fill the spots, like how we got Nordstrom and Reider and so on. Ryan might have been a harder (expensive) find. Some say for how versatile he is that he’s good money. But using 3+M on the 4th is bad. I think it’s easy to find just anyone, but is it easy to find effective 4th liners?

 

Again, I don't mind Ryan back at $1-mil-per but i just fear Sutter prefers size and grit.  Ryan can kill penalties and score a bit.  He's not a fast skater anymore but smart enough to keep up.  So there's one done.  A $1-mil LHS LW who has size/grit and can PK... Can't be that hard.

 

LW/PKspecialist ($1-mil) - Ryan ($1-mil) - Ritchie ($800k)

 

That's the kind of money we need to spend on the 4th line.

[Thebrewcrew]

There are two prominent UFA's that I think the Flames will chase. 

 

Nugent-Hopkins. I'll preface this by saying I think the Flames will deal Monahan. If the Flames are shooting for the playoffs next season and it looks like they are, this is the "easiest" move to make. While Monahan is arguably the Flames 3rd best C, it still creates a void. With Backlund turning 33 next season, they will need a top 6 C sooner than later. RNH will likely cost 7-7.2 on a 7yr term. I'd look at the Kevin Hayes deal prior to 19/20 season as the comp. I don't know if I'd do it, but I can see him being a player the Flames covet. RNH and Monahan are very similar players. 

Last 3 seasons

Monahan 198 games 66g-92a=158pts. 0.80pts/g

RNH 199 games 66g-99a=165pts. 0.83pts/g

 

Zach Hyman. This is a player I think the Flames will be extremely interested in. I like a lot of what he does, very similar to Mangiapane. I don't think the Flames will get him though, I actually think they'd have a better shot at RNH. There is going to be a ton of interest in both, but someone will give Hyman massive term and that will be what lands him, with RNH I think every team will be offering 7 years. I could see Hyman getting 4.5-5 on anywhere between a 5-7yr term, I love the player but it's too much for me. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

There are two prominent UFA's that I think the Flames will chase. 

 

Nugent-Hopkins. I'll preface this by saying I think the Flames will deal Monahan. If the Flames are shooting for the playoffs next season and it looks like they are, this is the "easiest" move to make. While Monahan is arguably the Flames 3rd best C, it still creates a void. With Backlund turning 33 next season, they will need a top 6 C sooner than later. RNH will likely cost 7-7.2 on a 7yr term. I'd look at the Kevin Hayes deal prior to 19/20 season as the comp. I don't know if I'd do it, but I can see him being a player the Flames covet. RNH and Monahan are very similar players. 

Last 3 seasons

Monahan 198 games 66g-92a=158pts. 0.80pts/g

RNH 199 games 66g-99a=165pts. 0.83pts/g

 

Zach Hyman. This is a player I think the Flames will be extremely interested in. I like a lot of what he does, very similar to Mangiapane. I don't think the Flames will get him though, I actually think they'd have a better shot at RNH. There is going to be a ton of interest in both, but someone will give Hyman massive term and that will be what lands him, with RNH I think every team will be offering 7 years. I could see Hyman getting 4.5-5 on anywhere between a 5-7yr term, I love the player but it's too much for me. 

 

I would wrather EDM pay 7x7 than us.

He nowhere close to worth that much.

A decent 2-3C, but not great.

He's played winger to McDavid or Draisaitl at C for most of the last few seasons.

At times with both.

That doesn't scream play driver to me.

 

I don't think we can match what the Oilers are willing to pay, and that's still a hometown discount.

On the open market, there are teams desperate for what they think he is.

I think he's a decent player, but a LHS smaller frame player with just a good wrister doesn't scream must have.

 

I do agree that we need to find (or develop) that 3C sooner than later.

We don't have a lot in the pipeline; Ruzicka, Zary....Buehler....

 

[Thebrewcrew]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would wrather EDM pay 7x7 than us.

He nowhere close to worth that much.

A decent 2-3C, but not great.

He's played winger to McDavid or Draisaitl at C for most of the last few seasons.

At times with both.

That doesn't scream play driver to me.

 

I don't think we can match what the Oilers are willing to pay, and that's still a hometown discount.

On the open market, there are teams desperate for what they think he is.

I think he's a decent player, but a LHS smaller frame player with just a good wrister doesn't scream must have.

 

I do agree that we need to find (or develop) that 3C sooner than later.

We don't have a lot in the pipeline; Ruzicka, Zary....Buehler....

 

I don't think he's staying in Edmonton. Apparently extension talks broke down in the fall. If he wants to be a centre, there are better opportunities elsewhere. I'm not in favour of paying him 7 or more either, it's just that players always win in free agency because teams have to overpay for their services. 

 

If I was calling the shots, I'd pursue Danault instead of RNH. If you can go Lindholm/Backlund/Danault down the middle, you have the ability to create 3 2nd lines, something Vegas has had success with in the past.

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I don't think he's staying in Edmonton. Apparently extension talks broke down in the fall. If he wants to be a centre, there are better opportunities elsewhere. I'm not in favour of paying him 7 or more either, it's just that players always win in free agency because teams have to overpay for their services. 

 

If I was calling the shots, I'd pursue Danault instead of RNH. If you can go Lindholm/Backlund/Danault down the middle, you have the ability to create 3 2nd lines, something Vegas has had success with in the past.

 

RNH has a FO% around 44% I understand.

That is pointless for us, and him playing LW is a non-starter.

Those are my biggest reasons.

I'm hoping he hamstrings EDM into overpaying.

 

I've got no problem with Danault, but I think you get rid of Backlund if you do that.

Cheaper and younger.

I don't think we are any better with the three you suggested than what we have.

Faster for sure, but Backlund is also going to tail off.

 

 

 

[tmac70]

14 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

There are two prominent UFA's that I think the Flames will chase. 

 

Nugent-Hopkins. I'll preface this by saying I think the Flames will deal Monahan. If the Flames are shooting for the playoffs next season and it looks like they are, this is the "easiest" move to make. While Monahan is arguably the Flames 3rd best C, it still creates a void. With Backlund turning 33 next season, they will need a top 6 C sooner than later. RNH will likely cost 7-7.2 on a 7yr term. I'd look at the Kevin Hayes deal prior to 19/20 season as the comp. I don't know if I'd do it, but I can see him being a player the Flames covet. RNH and Monahan are very similar players. 

Last 3 seasons

Monahan 198 games 66g-92a=158pts. 0.80pts/g

RNH 199 games 66g-99a=165pts. 0.83pts/g

 

Zach Hyman. This is a player I think the Flames will be extremely interested in. I like a lot of what he does, very similar to Mangiapane. I don't think the Flames will get him though, I actually think they'd have a better shot at RNH. There is going to be a ton of interest in both, but someone will give Hyman massive term and that will be what lands him, with RNH I think every team will be offering 7 years. I could see Hyman getting 4.5-5 on anywhere between a 5-7yr term, I love the player but it's too much for me. 

Hyman is a solid maybe. RNH not a fing chance do sign him..... Stay with monahan

[LouCifer]

29 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

1. Hyman is a solid maybe.
2. RNH not a fing chance do sign him..... Stay with monahan

1. Agreed. I hear and read that he’s going to get $6-$7mil on the open market. As much as I like the way he plays, he’s not worth that. A few things you don’t see on his stats card: He’s a very hard worker and has the drive to win AND all the goals he didn’t score when being setup by Toronto’s elite players because he has a poor ability to finish. It’s comical - much like Bennett here - how the puck doesn’t go in for him. And you want it to go in for him because he works so hard and plays well. I just wouldn’t spend that much on him, especially considering he gets way more scoring opportunities in Toronto than he would get here comparatively. 
 

2. Didn’t these 2 players “fight” each other? Aside from how terrible that was, neither player should be donning flames ilks next season in my eyes. 
 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, lou44291 said:

1. Agreed. I hear and read that he’s going to get $6-$7mil on the open market. As much as I like the way he plays, he’s not worth that. A few things you don’t see on his stats card: He’s a very hard worker and has the drive to win AND all the goals he didn’t score when being setup by Toronto’s elite players because he has a poor ability to finish. It’s comical - much like Bennett here - how the puck doesn’t go in for him. And you want it to go in for him because he works so hard and plays well. I just wouldn’t spend that much on him, especially considering he gets way more scoring opportunities in Toronto than he would get here comparatively. 

 

I agree Hyman is not worth it.  He's that type of mid-tier player that gets squeezed out of every team because of the cap.  He's useful but not a star player.  You can get this type of player by challenging a $3-mil guy to do 90% of the things Hyman can do at 50% the cap hit.  That's the kind of thing with mid-tier guys.

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I agree Hyman is not worth it.  He's that type of mid-tier player that gets squeezed out of every team because of the cap.  He's useful but not a star player.  You can get this type of player by challenging a $3-mil guy to do 90% of the things Hyman can do at 50% the cap hit.  That's the kind of thing with mid-tier guys.

 

He's not worth over 6.

What he is is a player that attacks the net.

The exact opposite of most of our team.

[Thebrewcrew]

I think both of Alberta's teams will be interested in Getzlaf if he hits the market. 

 

He has said he wants to stay in Anaheim, but who knows if the rebuilding Ducks want a 36yr old blocking some of the kids.

 

Not a bad option as a replacement for Derek Ryan. I think he'd help that 2nd PP unit. 1yr deal at 3 or less

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think both of Alberta's teams will be interested in Getzlaf if he hits the market. 

 

He has said he wants to stay in Anaheim, but who knows if the rebuilding Ducks want a 36yr old blocking some of the kids.

 

Not a bad option as a replacement for Derek Ryan. I think he'd help that 2nd PP unit. 1yr deal at 3 or less

 

As much as Getzlaf is a good player to target, he can stay home and get 3rd line minutes over that role in a new city.

 

[rocketdoctor]

So Kirk Muller in as Associate coach and Cail Maclean prmoted to the big club.

 

Edwards and Gelinas moving to player development roles.

 

confirmation

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said:

So Kirk Muller in as Associate coach and Cail Maclean prmoted to the big club.

 

Edwards and Gelinas moving to player development roles.

 

confirmation

 

Muller will probably run the forwards and PP.

Cali maybe the PK or just defensive play.

 

With Muller, it's not like we are getting a rookie NHL coach or A/coach.

Perhaps Cali is here because they plan to use more of Mackey and Ruzicka.

More familiar with them?

Dunno.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Muller will probably run the forwards and PP.

Cali maybe the PK or just defensive play.

 

With Muller, it's not like we are getting a rookie NHL coach or A/coach.

Perhaps Cali is here because they plan to use more of Mackey and Ruzicka.

More familiar with them?

Dunno.

Huska was left on you though.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Huska was left on you though.

 

This seems like a BT move over a Sutter choice.

Sutter likes Huska, but I don't know he was happy with the other guys.

[JTech780]

Hyman appears to be out in Toronto. He would be a massive get for Calgary. He does all the little things you want from a player in your top 6. My only concern is that his contract, is going to be a bit scary. I think he is going to get paid.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Hyman appears to be out in Toronto. He would be a massive get for Calgary. He does all the little things you want from a player in your top 6. My only concern is that his contract, is going to be a bit scary. I think he is going to get paid.

I think his value is more for his effort than his offense (0.67 ppg avg last 3 seasons) and I absolutely think he's worth between 5-6 mil. Someone will most likely pay more but I'd be more worried about term.

[cross16]

I agree that he would be an ideal add. He checks a lot of boxes and would really add multiple missing pieces to the forward core. I am a big fan of his game and think he's worth an AAV around 5 mill but agree term is the bigger risk here. He'll likely want his forever contract so asking 5 year or more and I just wouldn't do that at that AAV. If you can get him on a 4 year deal around 5 i'd be all for it but north of that it gets scary. 

 

but at the same time he is the type of player I could see the Flames doing that for just because he checks so many boxes and fits to a T what they are trying to do here. I'm not suggesting it's the right move, it just won't shock me if the Flames have him as their top UFA priority and do what it takes to get him in. 

[jjgallow]

On 6/2/2021 at 1:29 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I'm a little confused over the timing.

The qualifying offer is not due until after the expansion draft.

I've heard both sides of the issue where we can expose a un-signed RFA where other say they don't count and must be signed or issued the QO first.

Do you know which it is?

 

As little impact as Leivo was, I would still consider him a low risk signing. 

 

Possibly a case of CSKA Moscow giving him an offer that beats league minimum?   Because that will beat anything he can get here.    And if it beats, they can put a time limit on it.