2021 Offseason Thread

[cross16]

51 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

As of right now, we do not have anyone other than Gio or Tanev that we can expose that actually meet the exposure requirements.

Kylington - not enough last or two most recent seasons, unsigned RFA

Petrovik - same, UFA

Stone - meets the 2 year minimum number of games (54 exactly 🙂 ), but not signed.

Nesterov - gone

 

Also we need to sign a forward to meet the requirements

 

Kylington meets the games played requirement, just barely, as he's got 56 games over the last 2 seasons. They would have to sign him but he is eligible for exposure if they do. 

 

 Not that it really matters as the Flames are going to have to exposure 1 of their top 4 dmen because they are not going to be a 4-4-1 team. The question more is do they pay Seattle to avoid them, but meeting the D exposure requirement is not an issue. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Kylington meets the games played requirement, just barely, as he's got 56 games over the last 2 seasons. They would have to sign him but he is eligible for exposure if they do. 

 

 Not that it really matters as the Flames are going to have to exposure 1 of Gio or Tanev as I don't think 4-4-1 is an option for them (pretty sure Treliving already confirmed this). The question is more do they let one of them get taken or do they pay Seattle to avoid them but someone in that top 4 is going to be exposed. 

Right, I looked at the wrong numbers.

[The_People1]

I don't mind exposing Tanev either.  He's banged up again and at his age, recovery will take longer and longer.  I hope he can stay effective for 3 more years and not break.  Just pick one of the two to expose.

 

As for the optics, one hand exposing our team captain.  The other, a guy we just signed for one season.  Sucks either way but we have to lose one so just do it.

[MP5029]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

I don't mind exposing Tanev either.  He's banged up again and at his age, recovery will take longer and longer.  I hope he can stay effective for 3 more years and not break.  Just pick one of the two to expose.

 

As for the optics, one hand exposing our team captain.  The other, a guy we just signed for one season.  Sucks either way but we have to lose one so just do it.

Exactly one needs to be exposed so just do it already…though Gio vs Tanev I’d probably expose Gio only cause he’s got a few more miles and Tanev brings a very unique skill set we do still need but in either case loosing either would

suck…but personally hockey is more a younger man game so banged up or not Tanev is what like 3-4 years younger? That’s kinda what I’d use as the deco factor on who to expose.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

I don't mind exposing Tanev either.  He's banged up again and at his age, recovery will take longer and longer.  I hope he can stay effective for 3 more years and not break.  Just pick one of the two to expose.

 

As for the optics, one hand exposing our team captain.  The other, a guy we just signed for one season.  Sucks either way but we have to lose one so just do it.

 

Who was the best D man on the team this year?

It wasn't Go.

Expose the guy that had the best numbers in the league?

Maybe scoring on the PP isn't everything.

Escpecially considering how many minutes of it he played.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Who was the best D man on the team this year?

It wasn't Go.

Expose the guy that had the best numbers in the league?

Maybe scoring on the PP isn't everything.

Escpecially considering how many minutes of it he played.

 

Musical chairs bro.  1 has to go and we know it shouldn't be Hanifin and Andersson.

[tmac70]

The more one ponders on the acquiring of Eichel I believe what gets lost here is the flames organization any better run and more advanced than Buffalo. Lets face facts this organization is a tire fire at the best of times, our business model is average is acceptable. I understand that it comes to the best offer, havng an elite player without support just makes you no further along than we are. Plus the rumors of Chucky being unhappy, Moving Monahan, speculation of JG leaving, seems eerily similar to the Buffalo drama, nobody wants to be here. People dont want out cause the are treated well, they leave cause they are unhappy. The Gio situation expose him, he may be our top D but hes about to expire, secondly is MT worth the 9 million he is projected to get, frankly i dont see a 9 million dollar asset, frankly from last year he wasnt worth 4 million

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Musical chairs bro.  1 has to go and we know it shouldn't be Hanifin and Andersson.

 

My frustration would be finally getting a rugged D-man that made our defense look better.

How many years was it Gio's team where we accomplished nothing.

Our D has gone through good players and we didn't make much headway.

 

It's not that I think Gio is the problem, but he hasn't been part of the solution.

Tanev helped improve the defense.

Gio added 5g and 13a in 5v5 play, plus another 8 points on the PP.

Ras was not that far behind him, so have we seen already a significant decline?

 

I'll put a different spin on it.

If Gio is behind the changes made by Tkachuk or his supposed frustration, do you choose Gio over Tkachuk?

If that is accurate, then we need to not just expose Gio but trade him if Seattle passes on him.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Musical chairs bro.  1 has to go and we know it shouldn't be Hanifin and Andersson.

Also shouldnt be Tanev either.

[The_People1]

10 hours ago, tmac70 said:

The more one ponders on the acquiring of Eichel I believe what gets lost here is the flames organization any better run and more advanced than Buffalo. Lets face facts this organization is a tire fire at the best of times, our business model is average is acceptable. I understand that it comes to the best offer, havng an elite player without support just makes you no further along than we are. Plus the rumors of Chucky being unhappy, Moving Monahan, speculation of JG leaving, seems eerily similar to the Buffalo drama, nobody wants to be here. People dont want out cause the are treated well, they leave cause they are unhappy. The Gio situation expose him, he may be our top D but hes about to expire, secondly is MT worth the 9 million he is projected to get, frankly i dont see a 9 million dollar asset, frankly from last year he wasnt worth 4 million

 

So how to fix this?

[jjgallow]

12 hours ago, tmac70 said:

The more one ponders on the acquiring of Eichel I believe what gets lost here is the flames organization any better run and more advanced than Buffalo. Lets face facts this organization is a tire fire at the best of times, our business model is average is acceptable. I understand that it comes to the best offer, havng an elite player without support just makes you no further along than we are. Plus the rumors of Chucky being unhappy, Moving Monahan, speculation of JG leaving, seems eerily similar to the Buffalo drama, nobody wants to be here. People dont want out cause the are treated well, they leave cause they are unhappy. The Gio situation expose him, he may be our top D but hes about to expire, secondly is MT worth the 9 million he is projected to get, frankly i dont see a 9 million dollar asset, frankly from last year he wasnt worth 4 million

 

Fantastic post, 100% agree.

 

Nobody wanting to be here?   People keep talking about a rebuild like we have a choice.  Which is funny.

 

What's MT worth?   We will never know as long as our entire team is made up of left wingers.   And that's not our biggest issue.

 

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

So how to fix this?

 

Exactly.   That's why we need to draft another left winger with our 12th and then put this all behind us.

[MP5029]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

So how to fix this?

This is a great question to some great points…

 

first, I say yes MT is worth it and will rebound, lock him in at 9 now before he’s in the 10 mil zone…though, I do agree 9 mil is steep heck all hockey player salaries are way too much for playing a game while doctors saving lives are lucky to make 500k and 10+’years of schooling…but it’s that’s a whole other thing.. now as for MT I don’t think he is worth 9 mil, but definitely 7.5 but unfortunately the market and contract structure and rules push him to 9…er-go one needs to consider, he’s gonna get better and will conman the 9 at some point so…keep him and the other young guys we have or trade him for future…Cgy never dose that so…trade him for what? No way we get an equal player back at less so pay him and bite this bullet…then try to do as much of this as possible:

 

Players out:

Gaudreau

Monahan

one of Manji or Dube 

Lucic (god willing karaken)

Backlund

gio

 

players in:

Reinhart

Eichel

Montour

and another 2 RW’s one of which is top 6

and Danault from FA

 

there it’s fixed…now if the hockey gods can make it happen…see it’s easy lol 

 

keep in mind I’m not

a huge Eichel fan and have been a huge supporter of Monahan and Gaudreau but one thing this year has changed all that for me…I have absolutely no doubt the leadership of this group is completely messed up…hence MT’s issues which I think stem from Gio (the old leader core) and MT (the new leader core) being at odds…I think we seen this in a few post game interviews man there was so much tension when Gio and MT were together…anyway, the issue I have is Monahan and Gaudreau never took this team and lead them anywhere…they kinda stood by and watched things unravel…and that’s not what this team needs they needed them in particular to kinda pick a side and drive the team forward…and that as the issue here and that’s what needs to be fixed, neither of those two (arguably our best two players) did that….hence it’s time for both to go.

 

 

 

 

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

This is a great question to some great points…

 

first, I say yes MT is worth it and will rebound, lock him in at 9 now before he’s in the 10 mil zone…though, I do agree 9 mil is steep heck all hockey player salaries are way too much for playing a game while doctors saving lives are lucky to make 500k and 10+’years of schooling…but it’s that’s a whole other thing.. now as for MT I don’t think he is worth 9 mil, but definitely 7.5 but unfortunately the market and contract structure and rules push him to 9…er-go one needs to consider, he’s gonna get better and will conman the 9 at some point so…keep him and the other young guys we have or trade him for future…Cgy never dose that so…trade him for what? No way we get an equal player back at less so pay him and bite this bullet…then try to do as much of this as possible:

 

Players out:

Gaudreau

Monahan

one of Manji or Dube 

Lucic (god willing karaken)

Backlund

gio

 

players in:

Reinhart

Eichel

Montour

and another 2 RW’s one of which is top 6

and Danault from FA

 

there it’s fixed…now if the hockey gods can make it happen…see it’s easy lol 

 

 

The only thing is that hockey god you're referring to is BT.   

 

IMHO any "fix" happens at that level or higher

[MP5029]

4 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The only thing is that hockey god you're referring to is BT.   

 

IMHO any "fix" happens at that level or higher

That my friend is a fair point lol 😂 

[travel_dude]

I'm not as down on the organization as some.

I do think we need a hockey mind to do some better pro scouting.

Eichel is a top name, but is he the right player to bring here.

Many toss around Tkachuk's name as a guy to get you the best return.

Me included, but that's more for discussion than anything.

Probably the same for most here.

 

What bothers me is that we have only a handful of players that can be used for 5-10 years.

Some nice complementary pieces, and some guys that are starting to age not greacefully.

This is true of so many teams.

A rebuild is out of the question considering where we are at.

 

We could build a decent team with guys like Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane, Lindholm, Monahan, Dube, Ras, Valimaki, Hanifin.

It's pretty decent top 6 and top 4 depth.

But the only ways to do that are drafting, UFA signings and trades.

Unfortunately, draftiing or best players in the core will suffer with trades.

Or we suck it up and concentrate this year on the bottom 6 and drafting.

Trade Gio and Backlund or whatever we can get.

Replace internally and with smart UFA signings.

But only with guys that fit or can be used properly.

Bring up Parsons and let him actually play as a backup.

Get him the support he needs to do it.

 

As much as I want to improve the team this year, the options to do so just seem like moving a guy out that works for a guy that may not.

[Thebrewcrew]

A fun, pie in the sky scenario- offersheet Brady Tkachuk.

 

Obviously, the only way an offersheet works is with an egregious overpay.

 

If Gio is claimed by Seattle, the Flames would be able to present a very interesting offersheet.

 

The Flames would have the ability to go 10,907,734x5 on an offersheet. That falls one dollar short of four 1st round picks. The compensation on that OS ould be two 1st's, a 2nd and a 3rd. Does Melnyk really want to pay a player almost 11 mill? EK was far more accomplished as a player and he didn't wanna pay him. Mark Stone as well

 

It would leave the Flames enough cap room to find a top 4 D to replace Gio. The bottom 6 and backup G would need to be at or close to league minimum though. A 22 player roster would have roughly 500k in cap space.

 

B.Tkachuk-Lindholm-M.Tkachuk

Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane

Dube-Backlund-Cheap Player

Lucic-cheap C- Ritchie/cheap RW

 

Hanifin-Andersson

Oleksiak-Tanev

Valimaki-Stone

 

Due to the 2021 deadline deals, the compensation doesn't hurt as badly as it could, as the Flames have 2 2nd's and 2 3rd's in 2021. It's essentially Brady Tkachuk for 2 1st's in 22 and 23. If the team was concerned about the lack of 1st's, they could trade Monahan or Gaudreau for futures.

 

Aside from that, the only downside in this unrealistic scenario would be the 2022 offseason. Raises for Tkachuk/Gaudreau/Mang. If the Flames elect to keep the three wingers, they'd likely have to sell really low on Monahan, even if he has a great 21/22, that's really the only move the team could make to free up enough money to keep those three. 

 

Anyways, fun to dream

[LouCifer]

16 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

A fun, pie in the sky scenario- offersheet Brady Tkachuk.

 

Obviously, the only way an offersheet works is with an egregious overpay.

 

If Gio is claimed by Seattle, the Flames would be able to present a very interesting offersheet.

 

The Flames would have the ability to go 10,907,734x5 on an offersheet. That falls one dollar short of four 1st round picks. The compensation on that OS ould be two 1st's, a 2nd and a 3rd. Does Melnyk really want to pay a player almost 11 mill? EK was far more accomplished as a player and he didn't wanna pay him. Mark Stone as well

 

It would leave the Flames enough cap room to find a top 4 D to replace Gio. The bottom 6 and backup G would need to be at or close to league minimum though. A 22 player roster would have roughly 500k in cap space.

 

B.Tkachuk-Lindholm-M.Tkachuk

Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane

Dube-Backlund-Cheap Player

Lucic-cheap C- Ritchie/cheap RW

 

Hanifin-Andersson

Oleksiak-Tanev

Valimaki-Stone

 

Due to the 2021 deadline deals, the compensation doesn't hurt as badly as it could, as the Flames have 2 2nd's and 2 3rd's in 2021. It's essentially Brady Tkachuk for 2 1st's in 22 and 23. If the team was concerned about the lack of 1st's, they could trade Monahan or Gaudreau for futures.

 

Aside from that, the only downside in this unrealistic scenario would be the 2022 offseason. Raises for Tkachuk/Gaudreau/Mang. If the Flames elect to keep the three wingers, they'd likely have to sell really low on Monahan, even if he has a great 21/22, that's really the only move the team could make to free up enough money to keep those three. 

 

Anyways, fun to dream

Interesting TBC. I’ve tried to think of ways to unite the brothers - even today in fact. But ill

admit I haven’t thought of an OS. You’re right though. Melnyk would never pay that tab. And you’re right again in saying it would handcuff us with filling out the roster. I wonder if an OS can be used as a threat in order to force Melnyk to accept less in a trade or deal with the OS? There seems to be interest from OTT in Monahan.

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, lou44291 said:

Interesting TBC. I’ve tried to think of ways to unite the brothers - even today in fact. But ill

admit I haven’t thought of an OS. You’re right though. Melnyk would never pay that tab. And you’re right again in saying it would handcuff us with filling out the roster. I wonder if an OS can be used as a threat in order to force Melnyk to accept less in a trade or deal with the OS? There seems to be interest from OTT in Monahan.

Ottawa would most likely match it, they certainly have the cap to do-so. It's really a matter of whether or not Melnyk would be willing to make Brady the 7th highest paid player in the league in terms of cap hit.

 

What makes this hypothetical scenario interesting is the acquisition cost. I know he's not a C, but if the OS of 10.9 worked, you would be getting a younger, not injured player for cheaper than what Eichel would be going for. Like I mentioned, the 2nd and 3rd don't matter because the Flames have two of each. It's really two 1st's. It's not nothing, but cheaper than an Eichel move. 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

A fun, pie in the sky scenario- offersheet Brady Tkachuk.

 

Obviously, the only way an offersheet works is with an egregious overpay.

 

If Gio is claimed by Seattle, the Flames would be able to present a very interesting offersheet.

 

The Flames would have the ability to go 10,907,734x5 on an offersheet. That falls one dollar short of four 1st round picks. The compensation on that OS ould be two 1st's, a 2nd and a 3rd. Does Melnyk really want to pay a player almost 11 mill? EK was far more accomplished as a player and he didn't wanna pay him. Mark Stone as well

 

It would leave the Flames enough cap room to find a top 4 D to replace Gio. The bottom 6 and backup G would need to be at or close to league minimum though. A 22 player roster would have roughly 500k in cap space.

 

B.Tkachuk-Lindholm-M.Tkachuk

Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane

Dube-Backlund-Cheap Player

Lucic-cheap C- Ritchie/cheap RW

 

Hanifin-Andersson

Oleksiak-Tanev

Valimaki-Stone

 

Due to the 2021 deadline deals, the compensation doesn't hurt as badly as it could, as the Flames have 2 2nd's and 2 3rd's in 2021. It's essentially Brady Tkachuk for 2 1st's in 22 and 23. If the team was concerned about the lack of 1st's, they could trade Monahan or Gaudreau for futures.

 

Aside from that, the only downside in this unrealistic scenario would be the 2022 offseason. Raises for Tkachuk/Gaudreau/Mang. If the Flames elect to keep the three wingers, they'd likely have to sell really low on Monahan, even if he has a great 21/22, that's really the only move the team could make to free up enough money to keep those three. 

 

Anyways, fun to dream

 

2 hours ago, lou44291 said:

Interesting TBC. I’ve tried to think of ways to unite the brothers - even today in fact. But ill

admit I haven’t thought of an OS. You’re right though. Melnyk would never pay that tab. And you’re right again in saying it would handcuff us with filling out the roster. I wonder if an OS can be used as a threat in order to force Melnyk to accept less in a trade or deal with the OS? There seems to be interest from OTT in Monahan.

 

one thing I noticed is that Matthew Tkachuk seems to play bad against his bro?

[tmac70]

On June 25, 2021 at 5:17 PM, The_People1 said:

 

So how to fix this?

Lucic referanced this. Mind set and culture. This starts with a specific idealism and accepted work atituide. The Bruins created a dynamic of no passegers it was and still is required and demanded by the players and management. We have a country club atitude here, you sign here only for the money, never because your going to contend. Players with any form of dignity want to win a cup, the Evander Kanes James Neals its about the money. Change the attitude culture and demand more and watch your team become more dexirable

[The_People1]

49 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Lucic referanced this. Mind set and culture. This starts with a specific idealism and accepted work atituide. The Bruins created a dynamic of no passegers it was and still is required and demanded by the players and management. We have a country club atitude here, you sign here only for the money, never because your going to contend. Players with any form of dignity want to win a cup, the Evander Kanes James Neals its about the money. Change the attitude culture and demand more and watch your team become more dexirable

 

Is it personnel?  Management?  We need new owners?  We need a new mascot?

 

Specifically, where do we begin?

[robrob74]

51 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is it personnel?  Management?  We need new owners?  We need a new mascot?

 

Specifically, where do we begin?

 

 Think that’s why Sutter was hired. Break the country club mentality and maybe why he has targeted the younger players to try break from it. 

[MP5029]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

 Think that’s why Sutter was hired. Break the country club mentality and maybe why he has targeted the younger players to try break from it. 

Who do you mean break from it with the younger players like as in that’s why he’s very tough on them? I noted in post game interviews no matter how well they played everyone including Manji, that they need more work.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Who do you mean break from it with the younger players like as in that’s why he’s very tough on them? I noted in post game interviews no matter how well they played everyone including Manji, that they need more work.

The "good enough" mentality has been part of the organization for a long time now, half of an abbreviated season with the same core, coaching (mostly), and ownership isnt going to give you an immediate turnaround.

 

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is it personnel?  Management?  We need new owners?  We need a new mascot?

 

Specifically, where do we begin?

IMHO it starts with ownership. Unless the owners are completely disengaged from the team theres no way they dont know about how the fanbase actually feels.  But I guess as long as the fans keep buying tickets regardless of the on ice product the owners get their $$ and nothing more will be done.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Who do you mean break from it with the younger players like as in that’s why he’s very tough on them? I noted in post game interviews no matter how well they played everyone including Manji, that they need more work.

 

 

I mean, Sutter thought that Valamaki and Dube were starting to get complacent and I think maybe he is trying to get them away from that kind of game. Most of the team plays it, but maybe the fact they're young and seen as a future player, he wants to make sure they continue to bring it? Hard to say.