Oilers

[sak22]

1 minute ago, JTech780 said:

I almost feel bad for Oilers fans, I don't, but I almost do. 

 

Imagine being gifted so many 1st overall picks and just a ton of high picks in general, but never having anyone in management capable of building a team around all these players.

 

I don't think they have found the right coach at any point either, but at a certain point this isn't about the coaches. They have a team where if McDavid or Draisaitl don't score they have no chance of winning the game. They have two of the worst goalies in the NHL. They don't have a single defenseman capable of playing defense at a high level. This is just a poorly built team.

 

I think the issue starts at the top. They need to get a new President of Hockey Ops in there and just basically clean house on the management side of things.

I see leadership as an issue, I don't think being a phenomenal talent necessarily makes you a great leader, especially when you have the whole sport kissing your Hash Rate at 14.  The Oilers looked nothing like the teams in Dallas and Arizona that Tippett had success with.  I don't think he ever had buy in, just a PP.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I almost feel bad for Oilers fans, I don't, but I almost do. 

 

Imagine being gifted so many 1st overall picks and just a ton of high picks in general, but never having anyone in management capable of building a team around all these players.

 

I don't think they have found the right coach at any point either, but at a certain point this isn't about the coaches. They have a team where if McDavid or Draisaitl don't score they have no chance of winning the game. They have two of the worst goalies in the NHL. They don't have a single defenseman capable of playing defense at a high level. This is just a poorly built team.

 

I think the issue starts at the top. They need to get a new President of Hockey Ops in there and just basically clean house on the management side of things.

 

Read somewhere where Puljujarvi has the same points as Yak did playing for EDM.

Puljujarvi - 236 games - 42 goals - 45 assists

Yak - 252 games - 50 goals - 61 assists

 

Not important, but you almost see fans turning on Puljujarvi.  Yet they sing the praise of Bouchard and Nurse, even though they are generally on for a ton of poor defensive play.  Bouchard has offense, but little else.

 

[sak22]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not important, but you almost see fans turning on Puljujarvi.  Yet they sing the praise of Bouchard and Nurse, even though they are generally on for a ton of poor defensive play.  Bouchard has offense, but little else.

 

Just wait until that 9.25 kicks in for Nurse.

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I see leadership as an issue, I don't think being a phenomenal talent necessarily makes you a great leader, especially when you have the whole sport kissing your Hash Rate at 14.  The Oilers looked nothing like the teams in Dallas and Arizona that Tippett had success with.  I don't think he ever had buy in, just a PP.

I can see that being correct. I don't think it should matter how "generational" you are, you need a coach to push your buttons. Sutter mocked JG a bit about his 500th game, Bennett left saying he really liked Sutter. I think to be an effective coach, your players aren't your buddies. Rip them when they deserve it, compliment them when they deserve it.

Even JG saying he prefers a hard-assed coach.

Regarding McDavid and Drai, I've never heard an Oilers coach challenge them. So it's always been that 'lunatics running the asylum' thing.

Outside of that, their D play is really bad. Rarely a stick in a passing lane. I'll be shocked if this gets better any time soon.

I wouldn't even blame their goaltending. I thought it was silly to call out Koskinen. Last night could have been 6-0 after 1 if not for Smith. They try to run and gun, even Chicago did a better job of that last night. Then they have no other style to fall back on. It's that or nothing. Tons of issues there.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I wouldn't even blame their goaltending. I thought it was silly to call out Koskinen. Last night could have been 6-0 after 1 if not for Smith. They try to run and gun, even Chicago did a better job of that last night. Then they have no other style to fall back on. It's that or nothing. Tons of issues there.

 

What perhaps riled people up was that Smith "demanded" to play last night.  Had they won, they would have carried Smith on their shoulders and praised Tippy for making a brave decision.  No, I don't think the first two goals were poorly played by Smith.  He gave them a chance to stay in the game in the first period.  Held them off the scoresheet while the Oiler "pushed back" in the 2nd.  33 shots for after 2.  Down a single goal.  Yet, they only put up 8 in the 3rd. 

 

Headlines today "Smith Lays an Egg".

 

The problems there begin with head office (Nicks, Lowe, Holland) and pick up with the players.  Too soft.  Flying the zone.  Offense wins games.  I can get 5 points in a game.  I can beat that.  Don't ask me about my +/- because I have 33 goals,  what's your problem. 

 

I hate to see them doing so poorly, because it means that they will get a steal of a deal from some stupid GM.  Assuming they trade a top 6 player or a top 2 D (who is that?).   

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I hate to see them doing so poorly, because it means that they will get a steal of a deal from some stupid GM.  Assuming they trade a top 6 player or a top 2 D (who is that?).   

Could you imagine being that player traded to Edmonton?

That would be devastating. Come in full of piss and vinegar only to find out that you don't matter.

Time for Stevie Y to say, "I'll help you Kenny", then pick him clean.

[conundrumed]

My hatred for Holland and his last years paralyzing Detroit cannot be understated.

 

[cross16]

I agree this isn't a coach thing either it's a roster issue. No depth, poorly built defense and goaltending is very sub standard. 

 

I don't see any coach fixing this not even someone like Sutter. It's just a poorly built roster because the Oilers doubled down on a bad GM higher with a potentially even worse one. That's crippling. 

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

My hatred for Holland and his last years paralyzing Detroit cannot be understated.

 

 

Fans in EDM somehow thought that a guy that won a cup or two could turn a bleh team into a contender.  Never mind what decade he did it in.  He had about $30m in EDM and managed to bring them right to the cap without improving the team.

 

Goaltending - need to fix that; oops didn't.

Leadership - bring in grey beards; oops, that cratered the cap and didn't really improve anything.

Scoring depth - trade defense to get one and pay max term for a good one; half right.

Depth on defense - being in a guy not ready but can score, re--sign offensive D-men to replace defensive ones.

 

 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Fans in EDM somehow thought that a guy that won a cup or two could turn a bleh team into a contender.  Never mind what decade he did it in.  He had about $30m in EDM and managed to bring them right to the cap without improving the team.

 

Goaltending - need to fix that; oops didn't.

Leadership - bring in grey beards; oops, that cratered the cap and didn't really improve anything.

Scoring depth - trade defense to get one and pay max term for a good one; half right.

Depth on defense - being in a guy not ready but can score, re--sign offensive D-men to replace defensive ones.

 

 

I have a handful of friends that are Oilers fans. They can't say that I didn't warn them. All behind getting Kane too. While I'm trying to tell them, "that isn't your problem though, it's defence".

 

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I have a handful of friends that are Oilers fans. They can't say that I didn't warn them. All behind getting Kane too. While I'm trying to tell them, "that isn't your problem though, it's defence".

 

I didn't hear this directly, but read that McD said the team has zero chemistry on the ice.

I wonder when they last had chemistry?

Before adding a dangerous chemical to the mix (Kane)?

When they played to a 9-1 start (lots of teams struggling to start the season)?

When their PP was clicking at 35%?

Seems to me they have the same players for most of the season, except for the players getting waived.

A new coach is going to toss in some sodium bicarb to solve the problem?

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I didn't hear this directly, but read that McD said the team has zero chemistry on the ice.

I wonder when they last had chemistry?

Before adding a dangerous chemical to the mix (Kane)?

When they played to a 9-1 start (lots of teams struggling to start the season)?

When their PP was clicking at 35%?

Seems to me they have the same players for most of the season, except for the players getting waived.

A new coach is going to toss in some sodium bicarb to solve the problem?

He alluded to it last night, post-game. "We're out of sync in pretty much every area". He looks completely miserable and defeated.

[conundrumed]

The piling on goaltending makes me laugh. The D play is laughable. So, so bad. "If they had league avg goaltending", Button just said. They do. If they had any sense of how to defend that would show.

What a disaster. So toxic.

[travel_dude]

24 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

He alluded to it last night, post-game. "We're out of sync in pretty much every area". He looks completely miserable and defeated.

 

Is it any wonder why people think he is injured?  Not making the highlight reels.  No getting full speed cutbacks to the net.  Can't complete simple passes.  Down the ice and the D don't even have control of the puck.

 

His team and they are a mess on the ice.  No coach is fixing that, until you break them down to a nub and tell them to start over.  Not talking about trades as much as a heavy handed coach.  Sorry Connor, but you ain't getting 24 minutes.  Sorry Drai, but you don't get 5v5, 4v4, PP and PK time.  Time for you to play defensively and stop looking for an award.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Is it any wonder why they fired tippett

[conundrumed]

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Is it any wonder why people think he is injured?  Not making the highlight reels.  No getting full speed cutbacks to the net.  Can't complete simple passes.  Down the ice and the D don't even have control of the puck.

 

His team and they are a mess on the ice.  No coach is fixing that, until you break them down to a nub and tell them to start over.  Not talking about trades as much as a heavy handed coach.  Sorry Connor, but you ain't getting 24 minutes.  Sorry Drai, but you don't get 5v5, 4v4, PP and PK time.  Time for you to play defensively and stop looking for an award.

I don't care that it's Edmonton. McDavid and Draisaitl are clearly elite players. I have zero against either. It is out of their control. I feel sorry for them honestly. They are elite players.

You mentioned earlier, greybeards. I completely agree.

They're my prime example of no draft lottery. I hate it.

"Throw your season for the top pick". It's not actually a thing. It is completely overthought and overplayed.

Top pick is nothing. It's 1 player. If you suck that bad. 1 player isn't changing that.

End the lottery already. It's nothing but PR crap. Unnecessary..

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

Tippett out as is Playfair. Feel for Playfair but he is pretty tied to Tippett at this point so I get it. 

 

Given that Jay Woodcroft was coaching their AHL team that would likely mean this isn't an interim move but we'll see. 

 

 

 

A change was needed for the Oilers.  They have all four lines playing the same way, meaning, all out offense as if every line has McDavid on it.

 

They need a new direction.  If Woodcroft is smart, he will get 3 lines to defend and defend.  Waste time.  Make nothing happen.  Let McDavid get his 2-points-per-game and try to win 2-1 every night.

 

Teams usually need a stud goalie to win that way but it's a start for them at least.

[The_People1]

46 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't care that it's Edmonton. McDavid and Draisaitl are clearly elite players. I have zero against either. It is out of their control. I feel sorry for them honestly. They are elite players.

You mentioned earlier, greybeards. I completely agree.

They're my prime example of no draft lottery. I hate it.

"Throw your season for the top pick". It's not actually a thing. It is completely overthought and overplayed.

Top pick is nothing. It's 1 player. If you suck that bad. 1 player isn't changing that.

End the lottery already. It's nothing but PR crap. Unnecessary..

 

Throwing the season for the top pick has not worked for the past 10-years now but at the same time, only one team has been able to win a Cup without tanking in the last... recent history.  Only the St.Louis Blues.

 

Tampa #1 in 2008 (Stamkos)

Tampa #2 in 2009 (Hedman)

11 years later they win the Cup.

 

That's it.  That's the last time it worked.

 

Yet, PIT, WAS, LA, and CHI all drafted top 2 and for multiple years in some cases. Arguably BOS didn't require Seguin to win their Cup but "technically" they drafted top 2.

 

So, fair to say the tide is changing but it hasn't yet.  Ekblad drafted #1 overall could win a Cup this year.  Or maybe Stamkos/Hedman again.

 

What the stats show is a correlation between drafting top 2 and winning the Cup.  Almost all Cup teams in past memory except the Blues have this.  Will this hold true forever?  No because the Flames will win the Cup this year... But it's too early to remove the lottery system.

 

I would actually argue for a completely unweighted lottery so teams don't sell at TDL.  Instead, try to win every game to the very last of the season.

[Heartbreaker]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Throwing the season for the top pick has not worked for the past 10-years now but at the same time, only one team has been able to win a Cup without tanking in the last... recent history.  Only the St.Louis Blues.

 

Tampa #1 in 2008 (Stamkos)

Tampa #2 in 2009 (Hedman)

11 years later they win the Cup.

 

That's it.  That's the last time it worked.

 

Yet, PIT, WAS, LA, and CHI all drafted top 2 and for multiple years in some cases. Arguably BOS didn't require Seguin to win their Cup but "technically" they drafted top 2.

 

So, fair to say the tide is changing but it hasn't yet.  Ekblad drafted #1 overall could win a Cup this year.  Or maybe Stamkos/Hedman again.

 

What the stats show is a correlation between drafting top 2 and winning the Cup.  Almost all Cup teams in past memory except the Blues have this.  Will this hold true forever?  No because the Flames will win the Cup this year... But it's too early to remove the lottery system.

 

I would actually argue for a completely unweighted lottery so teams don't sell at TDL.  Instead, try to win every game to the very last of the season.

 

You know, as a hockey fan, if the Flames aren't in the SCF, I'd love to see a FLA vs. COL final. Watching that would be tits!

... and for what it's worth, it fits your narrative.

 

Love.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Throwing the season for the top pick has not worked for the past 10-years now but at the same time, only one team has been able to win a Cup without tanking in the last... recent history.  Only the St.Louis Blues.

 

Tampa #1 in 2008 (Stamkos)

Tampa #2 in 2009 (Hedman)

11 years later they win the Cup.

 

That's it.  That's the last time it worked.

 

Yet, PIT, WAS, LA, and CHI all drafted top 2 and for multiple years in some cases. Arguably BOS didn't require Seguin to win their Cup but "technically" they drafted top 2.

 

So, fair to say the tide is changing but it hasn't yet.  Ekblad drafted #1 overall could win a Cup this year.  Or maybe Stamkos/Hedman again.

 

What the stats show is a correlation between drafting top 2 and winning the Cup.  Almost all Cup teams in past memory except the Blues have this.  Will this hold true forever?  No because the Flames will win the Cup this year... But it's too early to remove the lottery system.

 

I would actually argue for a completely unweighted lottery so teams don't sell at TDL.  Instead, try to win every game to the very last of the season.

I mean if we drafted Kuch in 2011, and still Gaudreau in the 4th, Vas in 2012 and Point in 2014.  I think we could be in that same boat without the #1, just saying because all were possibilities.  Stamkos played like 2 periods in his first cup win.

 

I'm fine with the lottery as is, 2 teams had quick turnarounds in the last 20 years.  I don't think tanking is as big of an issue as it's made out to be or like it is in the NFL, most markets don't want to be in the draft lottery, they lose money.  but why lose pending UFA's for nothing?  On one hand the Flames in a playoff spot, need to trade all pending UFA's and thats asset management, the Coyotes do it and it's tanking.  

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

I mean if we drafted Kuch in 2011, and still Gaudreau in the 4th, Vas in 2012 and Point in 2014.  I think we could be in that same boat without the #1, just saying because all were possibilities.  Stamkos played like 2 periods in his first cup win.

 

I'm fine with the lottery as is, 2 teams had quick turnarounds in the last 20 years.  I don't think tanking is as big of an issue as it's made out to be or like it is in the NFL, most markets don't want to be in the draft lottery, they lose money.  but why lose pending UFA's for nothing?  On one hand the Flames in a playoff spot, need to trade all pending UFA's and thats asset management, the Coyotes do it and it's tanking.  

 

I was reading about the drafting strategy the Flames had.

Button wanted both Gaudreau and Kuch.

Would not scout Johnny when he was in USHL because the Bruins had ears there.

Wouldn;t ask about the player for fear of tipping their hat.

They left Kuch too late, though.

Figured he would go to the 3rd, but no idea why they risked it on Granlund and Wotherspoon.

They had scouted him is Portland, but he wasn't exactly a stud.

Wrong Granlund hehe.

 

 

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I don't care that it's Edmonton. McDavid and Draisaitl are clearly elite players. I have zero against either. It is out of their control. I feel sorry for them honestly. They are elite players.

You mentioned earlier, greybeards. I completely agree.

They're my prime example of no draft lottery. I hate it.

"Throw your season for the top pick". It's not actually a thing. It is completely overthought and overplayed.

Top pick is nothing. It's 1 player. If you suck that bad. 1 player isn't changing that.

End the lottery already. It's nothing but PR crap. Unnecessary..

 

It's not so much about penalizing the elite players as much as it is fixing a team from it's core.

If the only way to win is for two players to produce 50% of the goals, then you have to be drastic.

Overall, poor goalies, poor defense and poor depth.

Scoring goals is not the solution.

 

[cross16]

16 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

A change was needed for the Oilers.  They have all four lines playing the same way, meaning, all out offense as if every line has McDavid on it.

 

They need a new direction.  If Woodcroft is smart, he will get 3 lines to defend and defend.  Waste time.  Make nothing happen.  Let McDavid get his 2-points-per-game and try to win 2-1 every night.

 

Teams usually need a stud goalie to win that way but it's a start for them at least.

 

 

I agree a change was needed but I just don't think it's going to do much. They don't have the roster, IMO at least, to play the way you are describing. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't think they have the roster to play that way successfully. 

 

I don't think the Oilers are built to defend, but what they are built to do is move the puck so do it. Play as a tighter 5 man unit, pressure in the neutral zone and re group and go. They are similar to the Flames under Ward in that they are playing too slow and it's taking away from the talent that they do have. Get the puck back going the other way ASAP. 

 

[robrob74]

On 2/10/2022 at 4:10 PM, conundrumed said:

I don't care that it's Edmonton. McDavid and Draisaitl are clearly elite players. I have zero against either. It is out of their control. I feel sorry for them honestly. They are elite players.

You mentioned earlier, greybeards. I completely agree.

They're my prime example of no draft lottery. I hate it.

"Throw your season for the top pick". It's not actually a thing. It is completely overthought and overplayed.

Top pick is nothing. It's 1 player. If you suck that bad. 1 player isn't changing that.

End the lottery already. It's nothing but PR crap. Unnecessary..

 

i don’t agree…

 

Sure Tkachuk is one pkayer, but are you saying you’d take Tkachuk over Matthews? I go Matthews all the way. 
 

if anyone is so worried about being Edmonton or Buffalo or any team like that, they’re referring to poorly run teams, and thus don’t believe in our teams drafting. 
 

now, how many of our first rounders have made it and how many others in the other rounds? We’ve now got Andersson, Kylington in rounds 2, Dube hasn’t arrived. We’ve got Mangiapane looking at a 35+ year drafted in what round? Gaudreau is an outlier and probably is drafted earlier these days but we got him late. A later round in Ferland helped us get Hanifin and Lindholm as well as Hamilton who came to us through a big trade of picks for. 
 

Hamonic  was a gamble. Ruzicka is looking ok but has a ways to go. 
 

i get worried we can’t find a Matthews or Eichel or others, so drafting high is almost the only way to get them, unless you find Kucherov or Pastranak later… but those are rare. 
 

i think we are good at drafting average or slightly above average players, but having the top line helps. I still wish we had an elite #1C. 
 

but I’m comfortable with the team’s drafting to fill out a roster if we needed to tear it down. 

[robrob74]

On 2/10/2022 at 4:55 PM, The_People1 said:

 

A change was needed for the Oilers.  They have all four lines playing the same way, meaning, all out offense as if every line has McDavid on it.

 

They need a new direction.  If Woodcroft is smart, he will get 3 lines to defend and defend.  Waste time.  Make nothing happen.  Let McDavid get his 2-points-per-game and try to win 2-1 every night.

 

Teams usually need a stud goalie to win that way but it's a start for them at least.

it sounded like they lost the room, it came to be RNH, Mc D & Draisaitl and everyone else. I heard an Edmonton reporter today talking about how all other players get 5-8 min a game and they probably are being pissed about it so they don’t try anymore. Albeit the roster is poorly built, but I think the others have also given up.