Oilers

[robrob74]

43 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

The only viable option was for EDM to sign him to a cheap deal.  They only have LTIR space, not real cap space.  A deal less than $1m makes sense.  If they need to trade and have a team retain, they would need to give up a 1st plaus the reade value.  They are not going there.

 

I guess the retainer is where you're justifying a first? Because I think San Jose would be happy to just take whatever they could get for Kane. But if they have to go a buyout route, retaining would be offset anyway. 

Maybe the Oil can trade someone else off. 

[cross16]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:38 AM, travel_dude said:

 

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself.

They looked for and found a way to get out from under it.

I don't think h could even sign with another team while a grievance is in place.

What I also don't know is whether the arbitor can invalidate SJ's termination.

If they were able to do that, he is a Sharks player.

 

I doubt it. It would be highly, highly unlikely that it would get this far into the process if the Sharks didn't feel they had reasonable grounds to terminate nor do I think there is precedent for an arbitrator to uphold an employment contract like that. 

The PAs grievance will likely not be to uphold the deal and keep him with the Sharks but rather to try and extract a fair settlement out of the team so they don't get out from paying him everything. Same process as Mike Richards. 

[travel_dude]

I will show this based on a poster from another blog site, so I can't say if it's true.  Sounds like a fair approximation of the situation:

 

MEMORANDUM

January 12, 2022

TO: NHL GENERAL MANAGERS FROM: BILL DALY
RE: EVANDER KANE

As you know, over this past weekend, the San Jose Sharks exercised the Club’s right to terminate its Standard Player’s Contract (the “SPC”) with Evander Kane due to various purported material breaches of the Player’s obligations under his SPC. As a result of the termination, the Player became an Unrestricted Free Agent, effective Sunday afternoon. The Players’ Association has notified the League and Club both that it is grieving the contract termination, and of its intention to pursue an expedited grievance seeking an appropriate remedy.
Please be aware that while the League does not intend to pursue or independently take action with respect to the specific contractual breaches that have been alleged by the Sharks in support of its contract termination, the League has initiated an independent investigation into the circumstances pursuant to which Mr. Kane travelled cross-border during the Holiday Period, and whether such travel was conducted in accordance with applicable law in both the U.S. and Canada. While we do not anticipate that this investigation should be lengthy in duration, the timing of its completion will in large part be a function of the level of cooperation we receive from Mr. Kane and his contract representative, as well as whether the facts may compel a disciplinary hearing before the Commissioner.
If you have any questions regarding this matter, or Mr. Kane’s status generally, please do not hesitate to contact us. Also, we request that you refrain from any public comment on the matter. Thank you.
BD/ac
cc: David Zimmerman Kate Watson
Sean MacLeod

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

If they end up having to keep him. They could just trade them to the Oilers and retain half of the contract. Maybe they get another team involved and have them retain. Maybe they don't care if there is any compensation coming back? They just want out? I guess half a contract is still a tough loss for the team. 

 

It's rumoured the Sharks tried to pawn off Kane weeks ago at 50% retained and nobody wanted anything to do with that.  As desperate as the Oilers are, they are simply not THAT dumb.  Wish they were of course.  Kane at $1-mil for 1-year (or more precisely, a couple of months) is much more attractive.

[The_People1]

If the Sharks are forced go keep Kane and the Oilers spoke openly about acquiring Kane who technically is still a Sharks until the NHLPA grievance reaches a conclusion, then is that considered tampering?  Should the Oilers get penalized and lose a draft pick? 

[jjgallow]

52 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

If the Sharks are forced go keep Kane and the Oilers spoke openly about acquiring Kane who technically is still a Sharks until the NHLPA grievance reaches a conclusion, then is that considered tampering?  Should the Oilers get penalized and lose a draft pick? 

 

I think it's just great when organisations just start spouting off about incredibly poor confidential decisions.  We need more of this.

 

Worked for Gondek, will work for Oilers.

[travel_dude]

52 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

If the Sharks are forced go keep Kane and the Oilers spoke openly about acquiring Kane who technically is still a Sharks until the NHLPA grievance reaches a conclusion, then is that considered tampering?  Should the Oilers get penalized and lose a draft pick? 

 

I don't think it's any worse than talking about trying to sign any free agent.

The investigation by the NHL was after the fact.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, jjgallow said:

 

I think it's just great when organisations just start spouting off about incredibly poor confidential decisions.  We need more of this.

 

Worked for Gondek, will work for Oilers.

 

It's called taking the heat off yourself to appease fans or residents.

Won't fire the coach or give up a 1st rounder.

Will add from within the room or some guy that used to be a good player turned villain.

 

[jjgallow]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's called taking the heat off yourself to appease fans or residents.

Won't fire the coach or give up a 1st rounder.

Will add from within the room or some guy that used to be a good player turned villain.

 

 

 

[medatswhoP]

Smith out now also for a sore thumb for a couple weeks, with Skinner pulled up.

Maybe this good actually for them?

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/blog-smith-suffers-setback/c-329743932?tid=281885062

[sak22]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

If the Sharks are forced go keep Kane and the Oilers spoke openly about acquiring Kane who technically is still a Sharks until the NHLPA grievance reaches a conclusion, then is that considered tampering?  Should the Oilers get penalized and lose a draft pick? 

I don't think there is any chance of any of those happening.  Evander Kane became a free agent, this grievance isn't a get him his job back, it's to suck out as much money that was owed to him back.  The grievance is a non-issue for him signing, that could take months to settle, the league is probably investigating further discipline towards Kane which is the main thing preventing would be suitors from signing him now.  

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

I don't think there is any chance of any of those happening.  Evander Kane became a free agent, this grievance isn't a get him his job back, it's to suck out as much money that was owed to him back.  The grievance is a non-issue for him signing, that could take months to settle, the league is probably investigating further discipline towards Kane which is the main thing preventing would be suitors from signing him now.  

 

Okay, so no matter what happens now, no matter the grievance, no matter the NHL investigation, he's never a Sharks again? 

 

I wonder if the NHL does their investigation and comes to the conclusion that this cannot be a termination but instead, must be a buyout... that the Sharks would choose to reverse their decision to terminate and just stuff Kane in the minors for 3 years. 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Okay, so no matter what happens now, no matter the grievance, no matter the NHL investigation, he's never a Sharks again? 

 

I wonder if the NHL does their investigation and comes to the conclusion that this cannot be a termination but instead, must be a buyout... that the Sharks would choose to reverse their decision to terminate and just stuff Kane in the minors for 3 years. 

Not an expert, don't want to pretend to sound like one, but I don't think there is anything to suggest the Sharks are in the wrong for termination.  The PA filed a grievance because of the amount of money owed, they aren't reversing anything or changing whether it is a buyout or termination, there just going after as much of the $20 million as they can get.  And what I can gather the NHL isn't investigating the termination at all, they wouldn't have allowed it in the first place, the investigation is all around what the player did.

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Okay, so no matter what happens now, no matter the grievance, no matter the NHL investigation, he's never a Sharks again? 

 

I wonder if the NHL does their investigation and comes to the conclusion that this cannot be a termination but instead, must be a buyout... that the Sharks would choose to reverse their decision to terminate and just stuff Kane in the minors for 3 years. 

 

If there is any financial implication, the Sharks would be on the hook.

I think the NHL is seeing if they need to suspend further, but the grievance is separate.

 

Let's assume for a minute that the termination is valid.

Kane is suspended for the remainder of the season.

If he signed before that was announced, the new team would be out cap $$.

Supposedly, he's not singing until he is cleared of any suspension.

Which is weird, since he should not be allowed to sign until the grievance is settled.

 

I don't think it's cut and dried about it being a valid termination.

[cross16]

17 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Okay, so no matter what happens now, no matter the grievance, no matter the NHL investigation, he's never a Sharks again? 

 

I wonder if the NHL does their investigation and comes to the conclusion that this cannot be a termination but instead, must be a buyout... that the Sharks would choose to reverse their decision to terminate and just stuff Kane in the minors for 3 years. 

 

It would be highly unlikely for an arbitrator to enforce that an employment contract needs to be upheld and return him to the Sharks. That's a very, very large precedent to set. 

 

This is going to come down to money IMO. 

[conundrumed]

Poor Oilers. 5 3rd period goals to lose 6-4 to the Sens. ouch. No defence going into the 3rd up 3-1.

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Poor Oilers. 5 3rd period goals to lose 6-4 to the Sens. ouch. No defence going into the 3rd up 3-1.

 

4 lines run and gun for 60 minutes.  No game plan.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

4 lines run and gun for 60 minutes.  No game plan.

Again! But they need Kane to help...wiith....defence?

[travel_dude]

Read a quote from Kassian where he said that in October/November they were the best team in the league.  Blames a bit of the recent slide on COVID etc, but still can't figure it out.  Not the first time I have heard how great they were to start.  Did they think they were playing that great, even though giving up more shots than any team?  Did they even bother to look into the team they beat to understand what reasons they had such a great record?  One of the easiest schedules in the legue.  Teams played them on a B2B set, so they got a lot of backups with little experience.  Gifted PP time like it was candy.  Unable to score 5v5 or from anyone not on the top line. 

 

The problems run deep, but scoring is only a small part of it.  If McD or Drai don't score, they can't win.  Well, that implies that the goalie or defense they are facing is good.  Diving deeper, if the top two players are being outscored 5v5, and the fact they are tops in scoring, should maybe point to playing without the puck.  

 

Goaltending is a problem, but just from the way they are driving the bus over them.  Put the goalie in a position to make a mistake.  Screen the goalie.  Don't block a shot.  Leave rebounds lying around.  Criticize the goalies.  Only Smith can save them, but he is probably not wanting to play while the team sucks.  Was on a bonus plan last year, but now is a 35+ contract with little to prove.

 

Big talk about Bouchard being a stud D.  Yeah, he can score like Nurse and Barrie.  But he has poor defensive instincts like many new pros.  

 

Kenny won't trade the 1st for defensive help and balked at Chychrun being even worth a 1st.  Doesn't want to fire the coach, which I actually agree with.  A new coach would take the rest of the season to say the same things Tippy is right now.  Can't win a game every night if you have to score 5 or more.  This is the ship that Kenny built.  He blew his wad this summer and managed to kill the cap next year with Nurse.  Bought out Neal and wasted the money.  Didn't bother looking at NHL goalies, just went the same direction.  I guess not trading the 1st is brilliant, since it's presently a lotto pick.  Nobody wants his garbage and even Barrie is exposed as a guy that can barely do anything 5v5; 1 goal and 7 assists.  Muli year deal.at $4.5m

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Again! But they need Kane to help...wiith....defence?

 

lol you beat me too it, I was all ready to do a big thing on "this is why they need Kane" 

[cross16]

22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Read a quote from Kassian where he said that in October/November they were the best team in the league. 

 

Same old story for the Oilers. They were 9-1 with average to below avg 5 on 5 metrics that get hidden by unsustainable PP performance. This is literally the 3rd season in a row where the script is the exact same so it blows my mind that people within the Oilers, and some of the writers/fans, don't see this coming. it's very predictable. 

 

See what happens but I can't see how Tippett survives this. I'm not usually a blame the coach guy but the thing is with Tippett is in order to win with him you have to play tight defense. The fact he hasn't been able to install that in 2 plus years is an alarming sign that it's very unlikely this is going to work. Not many great candidates out there right now but he certainly is not it. 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Same old story for the Oilers. They were 9-1 with average to below avg 5 on 5 metrics that get hidden by unsustainable PP performance. This is literally the 3rd season in a row where the script is the exact same so it blows my mind that people within the Oilers, and some of the writers/fans, don't see this coming. it's very predictable. 

 

See what happens but I can't see how Tippett survives this. I'm not usually a blame the coach guy but the thing is with Tippett is in order to win with him you have to play tight defense. The fact he hasn't been able to install that in 2 plus years is an alarming sign that it's very unlikely this is going to work. Not many great candidates out there right now but he certainly is not it. 

 

He suggests that the defense is totally on Playfair.

Which I find odd, since Playfair was a good defensive coach from what I remember.

 

Seems like Holland based all of his decisions on last year, playing just Canadian teams.

Swept Ottawa so they must have the right foundations.

Barrie lead the NHL in points by a D, so he must be good.

Swept by Winnipeg, so the only thing missing was Greybeards.

Nuge was a PP stud so he must be extended full term.

Smith was not the problem last year, so give him a 2 year deal.

Losing the playoffs came down to Bear not being the right fit.

 

I look at the Oilers depth and I just don't see any improvement.

The forwards only added to top 6 and Foegele was expected to be at least a 3rd line play driver.

Scevior was laughed at, but explained away as AHL depth; he is playing as a regular.

 

The D is where they spent the a lot of the $30m in available cap.

Re-up Barrie.

Sign Ceci.

Trade a young prospect/fringe NHL D for Keith.

 

Spent $5.5m on Hyman and $5.125m on Nuge.

$2.2m on Smith.

[cross16]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

He suggests that the defense is totally on Playfair.

Which I find odd, since Playfair was a good defensive coach from what I remember.

 

Seems like Holland based all of his decisions on last year, playing just Canadian teams.

Swept Ottawa so they must have the right foundations.

Barrie lead the NHL in points by a D, so he must be good.

Swept by Winnipeg, so the only thing missing was Greybeards.

Nuge was a PP stud so he must be extended full term.

Smith was not the problem last year, so give him a 2 year deal.

Losing the playoffs came down to Bear not being the right fit.

 

I look at the Oilers depth and I just don't see any improvement.

The forwards only added to top 6 and Foegele was expected to be at least a 3rd line play driver.

Scevior was laughed at, but explained away as AHL depth; he is playing as a regular.

 

The D is where they spent the a lot of the $30m in available cap.

Re-up Barrie.

Sign Ceci.

Trade a young prospect/fringe NHL D for Keith.

 

Spent $5.5m on Hyman and $5.125m on Nuge.

$2.2m on Smith.

 

Agreed and no question this isn't all on Tippett. The roster is flawed, the goaltending is below par and it's hard to play a structured defensive game with that D core. I agree with all of that. 

 

What i'm saying is the roster constructions seems to indicate that the Oilers want to be a push the pace, quick strike offensive team. Tippett isn't that coach, so go and get someone who is. 

[sak22]

 

Unless this drill is just preparing Konovalov for what it is like playing for the Oilers, I don't know if this drill is anything to boast about.  Some people can never let their pom-poms down.

[conundrumed]

Nice to see them focusing on D.