2023/24 Roster/Lines

[robrob74]

On a good team would Ruzicka even be an NHLer? Maybe. 
 

Flames should do a 6x$9M for Lindholm. It's high, but they want to compete and shoot for the playoffs every year. It is their only chance and there needs to be a better transition plan than what is in place. I do think it's a problem that some are not pushing for a spot on this roster. 

[bosn111]

I think that there is some transition plan, just not in all positions. I think Zary is to be the next #2 C, ultimately pushing Kadri to 3 when Backlund retires after this contract. Pelletier replaces Huberdeau eventually. The problem is that the Flames don’t have a proper 1C potential in the pipeline, so nobody to replace Lindholm.

 

In G, Wolf is the intended successor, while D is more complicated. Is Poirier a Hanifin replacement? Solovyov replacing Tanev? Kuznetsov replaces Zadorov/Gilbert/Osterle? 
 

The issue is not a lack of plan, it is a lack of prospects to cover all roles.

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, bosn111 said:

TD:  Ruzicka, Duehr and Hunt are all waiver eligible. My comment about prospects trying out for roles that suit them was for waiver free players. Ruzicka is 4th line because there are too many others ahead of him. Yes he should be middle 6, but who would he replace?

 

For players like Solovyov, Kuznetsov, Zary, Ciona, Pospisil or even Poirier, they needed to be better in camp than Coleman, Backlund, Mangiapane, Zadorov, Coronato, Sharangovich etc. 

 

Ruzicka and Duehr outplayed any prospects, no doubt there.  But Zary also was IMHO the best C among the F  prospects and could have taken the 4C role.   Without claiming Greer, we had Hunt as the only option for the 12th F left.  Because we sent Zary down, there wasn't any option other than Ruzicka at C.  Claiming Greer would have demoted Zary to 13F or swapped with someone else from the AHL.

 

We had a gap at 4C and chose to put Ruzicka there.  

 

Solovyov only needed to be better than Gilbert.  Other than being injured, how much better was Gilbert?  He can fight.  He's okay.  

[sak22]

 

A rookie starting the season on PP1, don't know the last time I saw that from this team.

[travel_dude]

52 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

A rookie starting the season on PP1, don't know the last time I saw that from this team.

 

It sets up two options for wrong wing one-timers.  Coronato seemed to look good on walking into the slot area on RW.  I think perhaps Lindholm is too predictable on RW.  The 2nd PP is more predictable with Backlund there.  Typically they go with 2D.  

 

Like you, this is very rare to see.

[Thebrewcrew]

Happy to see Coronato get some time on the top unit.

 

Unfair to expect him to replace Toffoli on that unit,  but there are similarities. He probably has the best shot from distance on the team

[travel_dude]

#Flames at practice Tuesday:

 

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Dube
Sharangovich-Kadri-Coronato
Mangiapane-Backlund-Coelman
Greer-Ruzicka-Duehr
Hunt
 
Hanifin-Andersson
Zadorov-Weegar
Oesterle-Tanev
Gilbert

Markstrom
Vladar

 

By the look of it, no change except subbing in Greer.

Oesterle-Tanev could be an improvement over the last pre-season game results.

I guess we are not going to hear anything about Kylington.

[conundrumed]

Should be fun with a few new faces. Without question it's a team that Coronato can jump right onto. I like adding Oesterle and Greer. They don't have to be great, just there. But roster bottoms that needed to be addressed.

I prefer Solovyov gets bigger and better minutes rn in the A. Maximize the progression.

We kinda need Rosie to be a C. I know it's not ideal but he's gotta start owning it and taking on more responsibility. Can't just keep on with the kid gloves, he needs to take a spot, giving spots away isn't going to last. Rosie really needs to solidify his spot on this team, we've done all that we can at this point. Can't hold his hand forever.

[conundrumed]

I have a huge problem with Mangiapane to the point he's my first trade. I know he's pretty well-liked, but I can't.

ONLY with Backlund for him, so that's annoying. He can't elevate his play. He's "okay", or acceptable at a lot of things, but so middle-of-the-road. Still too weak on the puck so gets by with "feisty".

It's likely just me, but he always rubs me the wrong way. He's uncoordinated I think. His head, feet and hands just rarely seem to be at the same place at the same time.

We need him to be a 20g guy. I'm just not sure he is.

Not to be a downer, but you remove an absolute stunning first line and replace it to not even close, your other lines are getting better coverage against them.

Not having Gaudreau affects everybody in lots of ways for us. He carried ALL of the weight to allow a guy like Mangiapane to pot 35 when zero coaches/defenders were particularly worried about him.

That's all changed now not worrying about how tf your containing Johnny, then Tkachuk's Blockchainery.

[cross16]

39 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

#Flames at practice Tuesday:

 

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Dube
Sharangovich-Kadri-Coronato
Mangiapane-Backlund-Coelman
Greer-Ruzicka-Duehr
Hunt
 
Hanifin-Andersson
Zadorov-Weegar
Oesterle-Tanev
Gilbert

Markstrom
Vladar

 

By the look of it, no change except subbing in Greer.

Oesterle-Tanev could be an improvement over the last pre-season game results.

I guess we are not going to hear anything about Kylington.

 

 

While not fully confirmed by the Flames the only way they can be cap compliant with their opening night roster is by placing Kylington on LTIR. 

 

Don't think we will hear anything there and that move suggests to me that they don't expect him back anytime soon. 

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

While not fully confirmed by the Flames the only way they can be cap compliant with their opening night roster is by placing Kylington on LTIR. 

 

Don't think we will hear anything there and that move suggests to me that they don't expect him back anytime soon. 

 

If I am not mistaken, he's already been moved to IR, showing a salary relief of $2.5M.  I looked in Capfriendly and it shows a LTIR usage of $2,443,500.00 LTIR used.  Can't figure out the math (not important) but it shows a cap of $406k for Pelletier.

 

If Kylington came back, we would for sure need to move Pelletier to full LTIR usage and send down Rooney and likely Hunt.  It's not a great situation to be in.  Kylington aside, we are capped out again.  Next year not the issue.   

[travel_dude]

36 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I have a huge problem with Mangiapane to the point he's my first trade. I know he's pretty well-liked, but I can't.

ONLY with Backlund for him, so that's annoying. He can't elevate his play. He's "okay", or acceptable at a lot of things, but so middle-of-the-road. Still too weak on the puck so gets by with "feisty".

It's likely just me, but he always rubs me the wrong way. He's uncoordinated I think. His head, feet and hands just rarely seem to be at the same place at the same time.

We need him to be a 20g guy. I'm just not sure he is.

Not to be a downer, but you remove an absolute stunning first line and replace it to not even close, your other lines are getting better coverage against them.

Not having Gaudreau affects everybody in lots of ways for us. He carried ALL of the weight to allow a guy like Mangiapane to pot 35 when zero coaches/defenders were particularly worried about him.

That's all changed now not worrying about how tf your containing Johnny, then Tkachuk's Blockchainery.

 

I think what Mangiapane shows is that you need to be careful when you extend after a career year.  I think there are teams he would fit perfectly on, but I don't know that they want to trade a cheaper, bigger player for him.  Or even a RHS to push Coleman back to LW.  Who knows.  

 

Of course, the new top line here could become a real threat to other teams and they line up against the top 6 with impunity.  That leaves our 3rd line with more space.  One thing to consider is that Mange score 35 when we had no other 2nd line.  Last year we couldn't seem to have any line a threat.  

[conundrumed]

I don't hate Mangiapane, it's just that he'll never graduate from Backlund. I'd love that LW spot to be liquid, but Mangiapane will never leave it. Maybe you want Rosie or Rango to try it, but you can't move Mangiapane anywhere without him being ineffective.

I see it as a bit of a burden. Locked in at 3LW, who needs that at nearly $6 per?

[robrob74]

50 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I don't hate Mangiapane, it's just that he'll never graduate from Backlund. I'd love that LW spot to be liquid, but Mangiapane will never leave it. Maybe you want Rosie or Rango to try it, but you can't move Mangiapane anywhere without him being ineffective.

I see it as a bit of a burden. Locked in at 3LW, who needs that at nearly $6 per?

 

 

I like his tenacity for what that's worth, but other than that, I've never really liked him. Amazing story and probably great person. I just found him to be average for what he brings. Maybe he picks it up again. Good on him for earning a contract that should set him up for life. Tough pill to swallow when we have to buy him out though.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

If I am not mistaken, he's already been moved to IR, showing a salary relief of $2.5M.  I looked in Capfriendly and it shows a LTIR usage of $2,443,500.00 LTIR used.  Can't figure out the math (not important) but it shows a cap of $406k for Pelletier.

 

If Kylington came back, we would for sure need to move Pelletier to full LTIR usage and send down Rooney and likely Hunt.  It's not a great situation to be in.  Kylington aside, we are capped out again.  Next year not the issue.   

 

You are not, that is what CapFriendly has done but they are doing it using the same assumption I am because the move has not been confirmed by the Flames yet, that's all. 

 

Pelletier's cap hit is because he is on season opening IR. To make a long story short, Pelletier does not qualify for the same LTIR relief as others because of his games played and 2 way contract so about half of his contract counts against the cap. 

 

Based on how I see it I don't' think the Flames can get cap compliant if Kylington were to come back without a trade, which is why I suspect it may be a while before we see him.  This is 100% my own speculation of course. 

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I like his tenacity for what that's worth, but other than that, I've never really liked him. Amazing story and probably great person. I just found him to be average for what he brings. Maybe he picks it up again. Good on him for earning a contract that should set him up for life. Tough pill to swallow when we have to buy him out though.

 

He only has this year and next. He isn't going to be bought out. 

 

I think he scores 25-30 this year. 

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

I like his tenacity for what that's worth, but other than that, I've never really liked him. Amazing story and probably great person. I just found him to be average for what he brings. Maybe he picks it up again. Good on him for earning a contract that should set him up for life. Tough pill to swallow when we have to buy him out though.

 

I think you are suggesting that his contract sets up his next contract, assuming he can continue as at least a 20g guy.  He will be a UFA, so he needs to pick it up.  On a side note, he has a M-NTC (8 team no trade list) this and next year.

 

I can't see any situation you need to buy out Mangiapane.  You may not re-sign him, but he will get a job.  The cap goes up $5M next season, so it should not be a concern for a middle 6 guy looking for $5M.  This season was an outlier due to the cap not keeping up with salary demands.  The middle got squished.

[manu12]

Yeah you don't buy out a guy like Mangiapane, unless he isn't good enough to be a Top9 player.

But if things don't look to well he might be a trade candidate. Ideally for a cheaper guy in a similar position.

For example, I could maybe see a swap with VAN for Garland.

[sak22]

Lets not forget Mange wasn't really healthy all year last year, so lets see how he recovers from surgery before we determine if he is or isn't done.

[travel_dude]

52 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

You are not, that is what CapFriendly has done but they are doing it using the same assumption I am because the move has not been confirmed by the Flames yet, that's all. 

 

Pelletier's cap hit is because he is on season opening IR. To make a long story short, Pelletier does not qualify for the same LTIR relief as others because of his games played and 2 way contract so about half of his contract counts against the cap. 

 

Based on how I see it I don't' think the Flames can get cap compliant if Kylington were to come back without a trade, which is why I suspect it may be a while before we see him.  This is 100% my own speculation of course. 

 

I was thinking we had to have the roster set by Oct. 9th.  Capfriendly listed all the LTIR "transactions" for lack of a better word.  I think it's just a coincidence that Kylington has to be out for us to ice a full roster.  They may have had a backup plan before camp started, but shelved it when they talked to Kylington.  Just my thoughts of course.

 

I am a bit up and down about Hanifin staying past this year.  There is some underlying talk that they are talking to him again.  I'm okay with him at present salary, not so sure about anything close to 7.  Kinda wished we had seen Kylington this camp, to see if he was back in form.  Would make it easier to know if a Hanifin trade was worth the risk.  If Kyl doesn't come back this season, is it even worth looking at re-signing him?  2 years without any play.  Long time.

[Heartbreaker]

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

...

 

If Kyl doesn't come back this season, is it even worth looking at re-signing him?  2 years without any play.  Long time.

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

...

 

Based on how I see it I don't' think the Flames can get cap compliant if Kylington were to come back without a trade, which is why I suspect it may be a while before we see him.  This is 100% my own speculation of course. 

 

Obviously, it's not reasonable to speculate about something that the Flames have kept mum about, but do you think we'll ever see Kylington again? I doubt it's unprecedented, but I can't think of any comparables.

 

Love.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Obviously, it's not reasonable to speculate about something that the Flames have kept mum about, but do you think we'll ever see Kylington again? I doubt it's unprecedented, but I can't think of any comparables.

 

Love.

 

Klefbom, but that was "injuries".  His initial issue that kept him out was an alergy to his skates.  Almost like latex alergy (no jokes please).  But that seemed to disappear and he had shoulder surgery.  His injury basically ended his time as an Oiler and he never returned from Sweden.  It was one of the more advantageous LTIR injuries.

 

Again these were physical, so different kettle.  I don't know of any unspecified absences like that that ended a career.  Price is closer to this.

 

On a different not, was watching the PITTS game.  There was a play that made me think back to the Oilers-Flames playoffs.  The player was bent over and his face contacted by a PITTS player's stick.  Refs reviewed and called it no penalty.  You remember the hit on Yamamoto by Stone?  Double minor when Yamamoto got a stick in the face at knee level.  That penalty set up the tying goal.  Not sure if it's the same thing or not, just reminded me of an annoying call.

[cross16]

15 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Obviously, it's not reasonable to speculate about something that the Flames have kept mum about, but do you think we'll ever see Kylington again? I doubt it's unprecedented, but I can't think of any comparables.

 

Love.

 

Personally I don't think we will. Nothing behind that other than my own opinion. I kind of wonder if he sits out this year becomes a FA and signs to play back home. Again 100% my own speculation on it and I really just hope he can get to a good place, even if that doesn't involve hockey. 

 

Patrick Berglund is the one that comes to mind for me. I know a few players have left the game for injuries or perhaps some mental health/assistance issues so your right it's not unprecedented. 

[zima]

So he has a contract that is in affect but since he hasn't played a lick all last yr and I guess this yr are we still paying hime? Also about Greer what is he another plug or a quality play in other words will he be a help for this team or just a stand in when are need some one to fight? Is he better than Loooch as far as a player maker goes or is he just going to be going out there to push his weight ? 

 

[zima]

Just one more question how many here thinks Mony will put up more points than Kadri this yr besides me?