2023/24 Roster/Lines

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

With the uncertainty around Kylington would Ty Smith be worth taking a run at, I would think he doesn't make it past one of the bottom 5 teams but you never know with waivers.

 

He's a guy I suggested trading for in the past.  Thought it was a mistake for NJ to let him go.  That said, we went with too many D last year that took away from our forward depth.  In fact, we waived Valimaki because we didn't want to waive Stone or Mackey or even Ritchie. 

 

I think perhaps the Flames already know what the situation is with Kylington and we will see things done based on that knowledge.  The easiest thing is to give a guy like Morin up to 9 games and then send him down if Kyler comes back that soon.  No waiver work necessary.  We already have a 7th and potential 8th, so any LTIR situation with Kylington means we waive Gilbert and use Morin or just send Morin down.  Or use Kuzetsev and send him down.  Poirier would have een my choice but I don't think he will be ready.

 

So, I guess my answer is claim Smith if you have a deal ready for Hanifin.  Not a replacement, just depth.  

[robrob74]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/calgary-flames/.amp/news/former-flames-forward-matthew-phillips-turning-heads-in-washington
 

 

putting this in here because well, feels like the place to discuss what it could mean to actually put players in the right place to succeed... such a different things said in Washington. Happy for Phillips, but wow, what a difference. "He has won a lot of games over there in the last two years playing on the top line making plays.  I have time for that every day of the week." Maybe a bit of a miss quote but still, just tells me there is something different about the way we do things in Calgary.

 

It isn't like Sutter is the first one to do things that way in Calgary, many claim the earn it, work a way up a roster. can't break up what works... kid did everything to get the shot. I hope he can keep turning heads. Getting to play with Backstrom and Ovechkin could be huge. We would almost never give players that chance... I'm probably wrong as some have gotten chances, but for me some of those needed to be extended. 

[robrob74]

Weird thing is, there isn't a whole lot of analysis from much of you on here. Usually there's an app and so is killing camp, so and so deserves a look. It sounds like people decided to go camping instead. All I hear odd crickets in here. 
 

 

Hope everyone is well. 

[conundrumed]

13 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Weird thing is, there isn't a whole lot of analysis from much of you on here. Usually there's an app and so is killing camp, so and so deserves a look. It sounds like people decided to go camping instead. All I hear odd crickets in here. 
 

 

Hope everyone is well. 

Phillips was 1 of the few bright spots in the Wings beatdown game. In on both of their goals. Some of the Caps guys got hit pretty hard, he wasn't one of them.

Hopefully Phillips can keep it up. But I guess we didn't need a 4th line RW. /s

Can't blame him for leaving. Pretty much flattened all of his tires, he didn't have much choice.

[Otown72]

Is it worth noting Sonny Milano out there with Phillips in WSH is having some success?

We never gave either a shot here in CGY. I would have liked to have seen them at least try them on the first line with Huby and Lindholm in the preseason.

 

Cgy is still auditioning for a RW on the 1st line. It is time to put Coronato out there.

 

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Weird thing is, there isn't a whole lot of analysis from much of you on here. Usually there's an app and so is killing camp, so and so deserves a look. It sounds like people decided to go camping instead. All I hear odd crickets in here. 
 

 

Hope everyone is well. 

 

One televised game so far, the rest on the web.  I have a harder time tracking web games, and really the games mean Richard all.  We have more or less (less) the same top 9 this year.  Last year we had the dreaded 4th line that didn't even need to show up in pre-season.  This year nobody on the actual 4th line is showing that much.  A few standouts during a single game.  Nothing to really build a 4th line from, other than the guys playing top 9 that may be best on 4th line.

 

The most analysis has been in the game or camp threads.  I think we maybe have had too many open positions with not enough NHL bodies there to make a decent competition.

 

Poirier looked good in his one game.  Nobody else really stood out in my mind that isn't in the top 6D.  Kuz was good but showed a lack of discipline at times.  One of those two may be suited for a 7D spot, but hard to get them games.  

 

Coronato is the one guy that has shown NHL readiness among the F prospects.  Hunt had a good game then not so much.  Not really a prospect.  I think Rosie is a lock.  Duehr showed his usual grit and speed.  No idea how we run a 4th line, since none of the C's looked great there.  If you were to have a 4th line of Zary, Rosie and Coronato you might have a real 4th line, but that creates a hole in the top 9.

 

Think we need to make a trade or look at the waiver wire closely.  The 4th line hasn't materialized yet.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

One televised game so far, the rest on the web.  I have a harder time tracking web games, and really the games mean Richard all.  We have more or less (less) the same top 9 this year.  Last year we had the dreaded 4th line that didn't even need to show up in pre-season.  This year nobody on the actual 4th line is showing that much.  A few standouts during a single game.  Nothing to really build a 4th line from, other than the guys playing top 9 that may be best on 4th line.

 

The most analysis has been in the game or camp threads.  I think we maybe have had too many open positions with not enough NHL bodies there to make a decent competition.

 

Poirier looked good in his one game.  Nobody else really stood out in my mind that isn't in the top 6D.  Kuz was good but showed a lack of discipline at times.  One of those two may be suited for a 7D spot, but hard to get them games.  

 

Coronato is the one guy that has shown NHL readiness among the F prospects.  Hunt had a good game then not so much.  Not really a prospect.  I think Rosie is a lock.  Duehr showed his usual grit and speed.  No idea how we run a 4th line, since none of the C's looked great there.  If you were to have a 4th line of Zary, Rosie and Coronato you might have a real 4th line, but that creates a hole in the top 9.

 

Think we need to make a trade or look at the waiver wire closely.  The 4th line hasn't materialized yet.

maybe the players on waivers haven't been top of the line, but I would be surprised if we don't pick someone up, as we could use some extra bodies, especially if it's so thin on the club. 

[sak22]

9 hours ago, robrob74 said:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/calgary-flames/.amp/news/former-flames-forward-matthew-phillips-turning-heads-in-washington
 

 

putting this in here because well, feels like the place to discuss what it could mean to actually put players in the right place to succeed... such a different things said in Washington. Happy for Phillips, but wow, what a difference. "He has won a lot of games over there in the last two years playing on the top line making plays.  I have time for that every day of the week." Maybe a bit of a miss quote but still, just tells me there is something different about the way we do things in Calgary.

 

It isn't like Sutter is the first one to do things that way in Calgary, many claim the earn it, work a way up a roster. can't break up what works... kid did everything to get the shot. I hope he can keep turning heads. Getting to play with Backstrom and Ovechkin could be huge. We would almost never give players that chance... I'm probably wrong as some have gotten chances, but for me some of those needed to be extended. 

Well he is going to be 25 years old, so its not like Washington is throwing one of their top prospects out there, its someone who cut his teeth with another organization.  The Flames did that a few years ago with Austin Czarnik, maybe didn't get looks with Johnny and Mony but Peters in camp gave Czarnik plenty of looks on the top 6 and 2nd PP unit and rode him decent to start the season.  With Czarnik getting those looks, who got pushed down the lineup and completely off special teams?  Sam Bennett.

[conundrumed]

16 hours ago, sak22 said:

Austin Czarnik

He's was a useful call-up from GR. But that's likely disappearing too:)

But to your point. You might be in trouble if a craftier version of Dryden Hunt is your finger-crossing for top 6.

If we want him back to spot duty on the 4th line he'll be on waivers in a hot minute. lol

[robrob74]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

He's was a useful call-up from GR. But that's likely disappearing too:)

But to your point. You might be in trouble if a craftier version of Dryden Hunt is your finger-crossing for top 6.

If we want him back to spot duty on the 4th line he'll be on waivers in a hot minute. lol

 

 

It does kind of look like the Flames need to revamp their 4th line. I think it's the key to success and why the Flames did well two years ago. They were engaged and used well. It was different last season... I think because the rest of the team weren't engaged, Sutter relied on the 4th a bit differently than he did the year before, which sunk them.

[conundrumed]

34 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

It does kind of look like the Flames need to revamp their 4th line. I think it's the key to success and why the Flames did well two years ago. They were engaged and used well. It was different last season... I think because the rest of the team weren't engaged, Sutter relied on the 4th a bit differently than he did the year before, which sunk them.

It's really the Pelletier injury for me. "Next up" they say. I just hope that option will look decent. I'm not really serious about Czarnik, but we do have things to ponder. Rosie being a big one. Is he an effective top 6 LW or do we need him to be a center to have any form of depth? I still see depth as a weakness.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

It does kind of look like the Flames need to revamp their 4th line. I think it's the key to success and why the Flames did well two years ago. They were engaged and used well. It was different last season... I think because the rest of the team weren't engaged, Sutter relied on the 4th a bit differently than he did the year before, which sunk them.

 

Sutter went from spot duty for Lucic etc to playing them in the top 9.  Of all the possible combinations available, the most common was Lucic or Lewis up.  The one that actually worked was Rosie in the top 6, but as soon as we were again healthy, he was demoted to 4th and popcorn.  Not saying he didn't deserve to sit, but when you get 10 minutes or less after playing 15+ and scoring at a p/gp pace, the inevitable disengagement happens.

 

You may have seen an ineffective 4th line playing minutes against the Oilers in the playoffs.  That shows that they were never that useful.  Duehr looked good at times, but you can only play with the guys you are with.  Maybe it's time to create a line of prospects and let them take it from there.  Equal skill levels.  Speed.  Then you may actually have "next man up".  If you don't have that or are unwilling to even consider it, then go out and sign players that fit the bill.  

 

Here's the lines for tonight's tilt against the Oilers main F squad:

 

Sharangovich – Ruzicka – Dube
Klapka – Schwindt – Duehr
Ciona – Hunt – Pospisil
Honzek – Zary – Pettersen

 

Really all you are doing is trying out one-offs on different lines.  Would you not want to see how a possible threesome looks like together?  Pospisil-Zary-Duehr  Isn't that as close to NHL ready as we have, discounting for a minute Hunt.  

[zima]

Look's like Philips is killing it at Caps land another quality player we let slide for nothing how sad this team has become

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It's really the Pelletier injury for me. "Next up" they say. I just hope that option will look decent. I'm not really serious about Czarnik, but we do have things to ponder. Rosie being a big one. Is he an effective top 6 LW or do we need him to be a center to have any form of depth? I still see depth as a weakness.

 

Do we want to develop Ruzicka as a C? Is he defensively aware and motivated enough? Or do you keep him as a purely offensive C? 

What I would do Top9:

 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Coranato

Ruzicka, Kadri, Sharingovich

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman

Dube, Zary, Duehr

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

Do we want to develop Ruzicka as a C? Is he defensively aware and motivated enough? Or do you keep him as a purely offensive C? 

What I would do Top9:

 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Coranato

Ruzicka, Kadri, Sharingovich

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman

Dube, Zary, Duehr

 

 

 

 

Dube and Rosie are the same in that they are C's but they fit better in the top 9 as a W.

I would tend to use Coleman on the 4th line over Dube.

He is good on either wing but we could use some responsibilty on the 4th line.

All depends on use of Coronato and Govich.

Would prefer to see a sniper on Kadri's line.

That line showed some checmistry IIRC.

That leaves Govich on the top line.

 

So, my adjustment would be:

 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Sharingovic

Ruzicka, Kadri, Coronato

Mangiapane, Backlund, Dube

Coleman, Zary, Duehr

 

Have to see about Dube with Mange, though.  Might not be the best thing.

In that case I would swap Dube with Govich or Coronato

The good thing is we have maybe one extra top 9 player.

[travel_dude]

On a side note, the AHL Flames are tied with the Oilers A squad after the first period.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Do we want to develop Ruzicka as a C? Is he defensively aware and motivated enough? Or do you keep him as a purely offensive C? 

What I would do Top9:

 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Coranato

Ruzicka, Kadri, Sharingovich

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman

Dube, Zary, Duehr

 

 

 

 

I personally don't think so. I don't think Ruzicka's attention to detail, particularly in the D zone is good enough to play center. I'm not sure it's good enough to be an NHL regular. 

[robrob74]

22 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I personally don't think so. I don't think Ruzicka's attention to detail, particularly in the D zone is good enough to play center. I'm not sure it's good enough to be an NHL regular. 

ya, for me I put him with a Backlund or someone who would be D-minded to make up for that part of his game. 
 

should have put him with Backs in my suggestion.

[sak22]

3 hours ago, zima said:

Look's like Philips is killing it at Caps land another quality player we let slide for nothing how sad this team has become

Austin Czarnik had a big camp when he got here an disappeared quickly, same type of situation big AHL numbers, little body, wasn't going to crack Boston's lineup so hit the market.  Not saying Phillips will be another Czarnik, but until he sticks in the NHL and does something we shouldn't get too caught up in what he does in the preseason.  Chuck Kobasew scored like Mike Bossy in the preseason.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, sak22 said:

Austin Czarnik had a big camp when he got here an disappeared quickly, same type of situation big AHL numbers, little body, wasn't going to crack Boston's lineup so hit the market.  Not saying Phillips will be another Czarnik, but until he sticks in the NHL and does something we shouldn't get too caught up in what he does in the preseason.  Chuck Kobasew scored like Mike Bossy in the preseason.

I agree completely. Phillips is a guy that I'll hope and cheer does well. But I definitely won't turn around on the Flames and say they screwed up. Great to see him have a nice camp and earn some praise. But it ends there, he's not a top 6 here, move along.

Besides, a Calgary kid that grew up a Wings fan. So in the '04 playoffs when he was 3, he would have been cheering for the Wings when we devastated them.

Who needs that kind of cancer in the locker room?

And do I really need to add the /s, or should I hold out for the /swoosh?

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I personally don't think so. I don't think Ruzicka's attention to detail, particularly in the D zone is good enough to play center. I'm not sure it's good enough to be an NHL regular. 

I do believe that it is at C where Ruzicka starts fading into being overly-conservative a lot. It's just options that scare me. I like Dube at RW, don't wanna play ready or not with Zary and Rooney doesn't look good imo.

So when presented with those options, Ruzicka starts looking more favourable.

Unfortunately, for me, none of those options look ideal. Pius Suter would have been close to ideal I think, or at least safe. I believe rumours had us in on him so if true it's not as if Conroy isn't wary of 4C being a potential need.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I do believe that it is at C where Ruzicka starts fading into being overly-conservative a lot. It's just options that scare me. I like Dube at RW, don't wanna play ready or not with Zary and Rooney doesn't look good imo.

So when presented with those options, Ruzicka starts looking more favourable.

Unfortunately, for me, none of those options look ideal. Pius Suter would have been close to ideal I think, or at least safe. I believe rumours had us in on him so if true it's not as if Conroy isn't wary of 4C being a potential need.

 

Depending on Coronato's readiness and how Govich shows in the top 9, we may have to sacrifice Dube as a 4C or just go with Zary.  Neither is ideal usage.  It would seem that Connie neglected the depth in favor of leaving open spots.  So far, I haven't really seen anyone take the open spot. 

 

Like you, I think Dube is best suited to RW.  From what I have seen, the top 3 option for RW in order have been Coronato, Dube and Govich.  I wouldn't put Coronato on the top line, just because they will see the best defensive lines.  So, that leaves us with Govich or Dube as top RW, and Coronato as 2C or 3C.  Pushes down Coleman, but we still don't have a 4C.

 

That kinda makes it a necessity to make a trade or a strategic waiver claim.  With Pelletier out and Kylington in doubt, we only need waive the fringe players.  We have to waiver Rooney, Desimone, Gilbert, Pettersen, Hunt and Pospisil anyway to give roster flexibility.  Leaves us 11F and 6D active.  The Pelletier injury and unknown status of Kylington puts us in a bind.

[pikey7883]

From an organizational stand point. Coronato needs to play in the top 6 and be developed that way. Rosie needs to play center and be a defensive stalwart who moves the puck in the right direction. That being said I would like to see this given a shot.

Hubie-Lindy-Coronato

Dube-Kadri-Sharangovich 

Mang-Backs-missing top 9 RW (imo)

Coleman-Ruzie-Duehr

 

On a side note one guy that I keep looking at, but have no idea how to get (cost wise and cap implication wise), is Crouse for second line size with Kadri and Dube.

Then you can push Govich down with Mang and Backs.

1st and 4th stay the same.
 

 

[cross16]

With the way he has played I don't mind Zary starting the season as the 4th line center. I think the whole "can't play young players on the 4th line" is inaccurate, you just need to have a plan for them. With the way the Flames are constructed they should be able to get their 4th line 6-8 mins a night which is good for Zary to get his feet wet, plus you can mix in some different situations.

 

All the better is you have a player like Coleman you can pair him with too. That's a real option for me. 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

With the way he has played I don't mind Zary starting the season as the 4th line center. I think the whole "can't play young players on the 4th line" is inaccurate, you just need to have a plan for them. With the way the Flames are constructed they should be able to get their 4th line 6-8 mins a night which is good for Zary to get his feet wet, plus you can mix in some different situations.

 

All the better is you have a player like Coleman you can pair him with too. That's a real option for me. 

 

Looking at the rest of the available roster, using Coleman on the 4th line is a reasonable option.  You can alternate him on the 3rd line to reduce someone's minutes, plus use him on the PK.  I don't see Rooney as an option at all.  He has shown little.  Zary is probably the highest of the prospects looking to make a push for a C spot, over Schwindt.

 

So, Coleman-Zary-Duehr is more likely than Coronato on that line.  That's fine.