2023 Offseason

[jjgallow]

46 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

To be clear, we do have a 1st in 2024 - I don't have any idea if it's ours, or FLA's, or what the terms are, but we do have a pick, and given the complexities of said terms, it's probably not possible to trade it, even if they wanted to.

 

Love.

 

I didn't know that lol.  This is great news.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

To be clear, we do have a 1st in 2024 - I don't have any idea if it's ours, or FLA's, or what the terms are, but we do have a pick, and given the complexities of said terms, it's probably not possible to trade it, even if they wanted to.

 

Love.

Does it depend on Montreal due to the Monahan deal too? Depends on Florida and then Montreal?

[Heartbreaker]

22 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Does it depend on Montreal due to the Monahan deal too? Depends on Florida and then Montreal?

 

Yeah, I don't understand the specifics at all, but the Flames had two 1sts in 2024. That is, they had their own, and they had FLA's. One of them will go to MTL, but I don't know which one, or how that all works. In any case, only one will go, so they'll have one left. 

 

Love.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

Does it depend on Montreal due to the Monahan deal too? Depends on Florida and then Montreal?

 

1 hour ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Yeah, I don't understand the specifics at all, but the Flames had two 1sts in 2024. That is, they had their own, and they had FLA's. One of them will go to MTL, but I don't know which one, or how that all works. In any case, only one will go, so they'll have one left. 

 

Love.

 

Okay, so here is how I understand the easy parts.

We have 2023.

We have the 2024 Flames pick, but MTL can receive it if it's 20-32 overall.

It gets tricky after that.

If MTL takes the 2024 20-32 pick, we keep the Flames 2025 pick and the FLA 2025 pick.

 

It gets way too complicated after that, if MTL doesn't opt to take a 20-32 pick or we get 1st-19th.

There are multiple conditions to it.

MTL would be best advised to refuse the 2024 pick, since it gives them the best of the 2025 pick.

Assuming one is not a lotto pick.

 

The simple thing is we have 2023 and 2024 1st rounders.  I doubt MTL opts for a late pick unless it helps them more.

[Sarasti]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Okay, so here is how I understand the easy parts.

We have 2023.

We have the 2024 Flames pick, but MTL can receive it if it's 20-32 overall.

It gets tricky after that.

If MTL takes the 2024 20-32 pick, we keep the Flames 2025 pick and the FLA 2025 pick.

 

It gets way too complicated after that, if MTL doesn't opt to take a 20-32 pick or we get 1st-19th.

There are multiple conditions to it.

MTL would be best advised to refuse the 2024 pick, since it gives them the best of the 2025 pick.

Assuming one is not a lotto pick.

 

The simple thing is we have 2023 and 2024 1st rounders.  I doubt MTL opts for a late pick unless it helps them more.

 

This is why I hate the growing trend of conditional picks included in trades

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, Sarasti said:

 

This is why I hate the growing trend of conditional picks included in trades

 

It's one thing to make a pick conditional to not give a lotto pick away.

It's another when there is a page long set of conditions.

[jjgallow]

42 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Okay, so here is how I understand the easy parts.

We have 2023.

We have the 2024 Flames pick, but MTL can receive it if it's 20-32 overall.

It gets tricky after that.

If MTL takes the 2024 20-32 pick, we keep the Flames 2025 pick and the FLA 2025 pick.

 

It gets way too complicated after that, if MTL doesn't opt to take a 20-32 pick or we get 1st-19th.

There are multiple conditions to it.

MTL would be best advised to refuse the 2024 pick, since it gives them the best of the 2025 pick.

Assuming one is not a lotto pick.

 

The simple thing is we have 2023 and 2024 1st rounders.  I doubt MTL opts for a late pick unless it helps them more.

 

[medatswhoP]

46 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Okay, so here is how I understand the easy parts.

We have 2023.

We have the 2024 Flames pick, but MTL can receive it if it's 20-32 overall.

It gets tricky after that.

If MTL takes the 2024 20-32 pick, we keep the Flames 2025 pick and the FLA 2025 pick.

 

It gets way too complicated after that, if MTL doesn't opt to take a 20-32 pick or we get 1st-19th.

There are multiple conditions to it.

MTL would be best advised to refuse the 2024 pick, since it gives them the best of the 2025 pick.

Assuming one is not a lotto pick.

 

The simple thing is we have 2023 and 2024 1st rounders.  I doubt MTL opts for a late pick unless it helps them more.

I was just going to explain all this but TD beat me to it. 🤪

Bottom line we need good picks, and be nice one day to hit the lotto pick.

Thanks for explaining that TD kinda makes sense now.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, medatswhoP said:

I was just going to explain all this but TD beat me to it. 🤪

Bottom line we need good picks, and be nice one day to hit the lotto pick.

Thanks for explaining that TD kinda makes sense now.

 

To give the full picture, I would need to use a If-then-else nested set of statements.

Then again, I hate word problems.  

[Heartbreaker]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

To give the full picture, I would need to use a If-then-else nested set of statements.

Then again, I hate word problems.  

 

Do I need to do more JavaScript? I'll do it if it's helpful.

 

Love.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Do I need to do more JavaScript? I'll do it if it's helpful.

 

Love.

 

Ahhh, unstructured programming languages.

Kinda makes pseudo code not relevant.

 

I just didn't like the way cap friendly showed it.

[tmac70]

Despite the changes coming forth in upper management coaches, who is getting moved on the roster? There is going to have to be some going out and something coming in. So UFA next season their has to be some changes coming in. The fact we are in a position to lose 2 of our best C's is alarming. We have nothing in the AHL that replaces this. Plus we are in the mix of losing top 2-5 dman with the uncertainty of Kylington. One or two of these guys are gone next year on this list it comes down to who and can those holes be filled, What's the trade value or do you run the season and hope that you can reatain. Regardless the club needs to clear $5 Million to ice a team next season, Thoughts?

 

Forwards 

Lindholm, Backs, Toffolli 

Defense

Kylington, Hanifiin, Zadorov, Tanev 

[conundrumed]

Do we really expect Toffoli to repeat? I think we should sell high. He was well above career norm.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Despite the changes coming forth in upper management coaches, who is getting moved on the roster? There is going to have to be some going out and something coming in. So UFA next season their has to be some changes coming in. The fact we are in a position to lose 2 of our best C's is alarming. We have nothing in the AHL that replaces this. Plus we are in the mix of losing top 2-5 dman with the uncertainty of Kylington. One or two of these guys are gone next year on this list it comes down to who and can those holes be filled, What's the trade value or do you run the season and hope that you can reatain. Regardless the club needs to clear $5 Million to ice a team next season, Thoughts?

 

Forwards 

Lindholm, Backs, Toffolli 

Defense

Kylington, Hanifiin, Zadorov, Tanev 

 

1 minute ago, conundrumed said:

Do we really expect Toffoli to repeat? I think we should sell high. He was well above career norm.

 

Toffoli was shooting at 12.7% this year, and his norms are 10-17%.

One year was 5%.

The chances on his shot volume being close to this year and the shooting % being above 10 are likely.

If he was paired with a pass first player like Huberdeau, he might be close to 34 goals.

In his first 6 games he had 3g and 2a.

If that was due to playing with Huberdeau, expect something above 30g next season.

Assuming Huberdeau is considered a top line LW.

Lindholm was down almost 40 shots from last year, but maintained his shooting %.

 

I'm not saying don't trade Toffoli, but if you do then the package has to be worth it.

 

I can see us shopping anyone on the last year of their contract.

If Toffoli, well you know my expectation.

If Lindholm, it better be someone like Necas.

Backlund just needs to net something reasonable and replaces 3C or other needed depth.

Tanev is one of those coin flips.

His age is putting his games played at risk due to possible injuries.

Warrior, but miss him if he's out for any time.

Zadorov is questionable.  He's the lone bit of toughness on the back end.

Hanifin has to be a decent return.

Not as much issue with paying him this year as what he will want next year.

[The_People1]

24 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Do we really expect Toffoli to repeat? I think we should sell high. He was well above career norm.

 

Kek bro, cashing in high and thinking long term?  The mob will be after you.

[The_People1]

41 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Despite the changes coming forth in upper management coaches, who is getting moved on the roster? There is going to have to be some going out and something coming in. So UFA next season their has to be some changes coming in. The fact we are in a position to lose 2 of our best C's is alarming. We have nothing in the AHL that replaces this. Plus we are in the mix of losing top 2-5 dman with the uncertainty of Kylington. One or two of these guys are gone next year on this list it comes down to who and can those holes be filled, What's the trade value or do you run the season and hope that you can reatain. Regardless the club needs to clear $5 Million to ice a team next season, Thoughts?

 

Forwards 

Lindholm, Backs, Toffolli 

Defense

Kylington, Hanifiin, Zadorov, Tanev 

 

If Lindholm doesn't extend, then you move him.  Cannot risk a Gaudreau situation.  After that promptly dismantle the team but don't use the word "rebuild".

 

If Lindholm does extend long term, then we are in win now mode.  Cap situation should be fine if Lucic leaves.  Don't think we need to free a further $5-mil based on capfriendly numbers.  Only moves I would make are ones focused around allowing Pelletier and Duehr to play full time.  If Coronato is ready too, then move someone to make space... So, perhaps move Coleman and/or Mangiapane.  I like Mange and think he will bounce back but Dube and Pelletier are similar players at way less money.  Coleman is too average.  I think we can find a similar talent for half the price.

[travel_dude]

36 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Kek bro, cashing in high and thinking long term?  The mob will be after you.

 

I'm not part of the mob.  If he is signing long term and presents one of the few scoring forwards we have, is that wrong?  Does a 30 year old RW get you a 23 year old scoring winger?  Maybe.  Maybe the return leaves us worse now and in the future.  I am not opposed to trade that improve the team.

 

[conundrumed]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not part of the mob.  If he is signing long term and presents one of the few scoring forwards we have, is that wrong?  Does a 30 year old RW get you a 23 year old scoring winger?  Maybe.  Maybe the return leaves us worse now and in the future.  I am not opposed to trade that improve the team.

 

But you do worry way too much about us trading anyone. You also worry that Vladar will turn into Vasilevsky.

You can't make any trades with a "what if" mindset regarding your own players.

It's unfortunate that BT knew he was leaving at TDL so was paralyzed to do what would have been great imho.

Backlund, Toffoli, anyone, really, should have been shipped out. We'll do the same next year. The "might make the playoffs" blink where any realist can see that it isn't happening. Easy schedule to finish the year? We were on other teams' easy schedule. This is exactly how you draft 13-16 every year and stay married to cap issues.

And the same old lockerroom of zero intensity. At least sweep out all of Sutter's crutches of Christmas-pasts and don't let him leverage that well any longer. IF there is lockerroom division it isn't difficult to envision what the dividing lines could be. Sutter's golden children vs Sutter's patsies.

The golden children are NEVER the problem regardless of what happened in reality.

[jjgallow]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

But you do worry way too much about us trading anyone. You also worry that Vladar will turn into Vasilevsky.

You can't make any trades with a "what if" mindset regarding your own players.

It's unfortunate that BT knew he was leaving at TDL so was paralyzed to do what would have been great imho.

Backlund, Toffoli, anyone, really, should have been shipped out. We'll do the same next year. The "might make the playoffs" blink where any realist can see that it isn't happening. Easy schedule to finish the year? We were on other teams' easy schedule. This is exactly how you draft 13-16 every year and stay married to cap issues.

And the same old lockerroom of zero intensity. At least sweep out all of Sutter's crutches of Christmas-pasts and don't let him leverage that well any longer. IF there is lockerroom division it isn't difficult to envision what the dividing lines could be. Sutter's golden children vs Sutter's patsies.

The golden children are NEVER the problem regardless of what happened in reality.

 

dude you are just vicious in the mornings lol.

 

But I agree.   sell high on Toffoli.   If you can trade "Vasilevsky", then do.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

But you do worry way too much about us trading anyone. You also worry that Vladar will turn into Vasilevsky.

You can't make any trades with a "what if" mindset regarding your own players.

It's unfortunate that BT knew he was leaving at TDL so was paralyzed to do what would have been great imho.

Backlund, Toffoli, anyone, really, should have been shipped out. We'll do the same next year. The "might make the playoffs" blink where any realist can see that it isn't happening. Easy schedule to finish the year? We were on other teams' easy schedule. This is exactly how you draft 13-16 every year and stay married to cap issues.

And the same old lockerroom of zero intensity. At least sweep out all of Sutter's crutches of Christmas-pasts and don't let him leverage that well any longer. IF there is lockerroom division it isn't difficult to envision what the dividing lines could be. Sutter's golden children vs Sutter's patsies.

The golden children are NEVER the problem regardless of what happened in reality.

 

Unfortunately, I have a small list of players I don't prefer to trade.

I guess with Vladar, I am concerned we keep the wrong goalie by trading him.

The only goalie we have that could ever approach Vas is Wolfie, IMHO.

I don't really think that's a realistic belief, just a hope.

I have no idea what happened at TDL.

Almost like BT had no remaining power to swing deals.

Like he was told, you can add but you can't trade a top 12 roster player.

 

I am probably a little too quick to suggest trading players though.

Backlund, Hanifin, Tanev, Coleman, Mangiapane (or Dube), Markstrom (or Vladar).

I'm not high on trading Dube, just that we should try not to keep both him and Mange.

Dube has not yet hit his stride, but Mangiapane is likely to stay close to his level this season.

 

Did I miss anyone?

Toffoli?  Okay, like I said, if he gets you a good return so be it.

 

My bigger issue is that we will still have Sutter regardless of who we trade for.

Same mentality, same game.  Low skill play.  Give 110% or sit out.

I don't know how you can have a team that only half of the player believe in the coach.

[cross16]

I really don’t get the love affair with Vladar. He was at best an avg back up last year and he was one of the worst goalies in the league this year. 
 

trade him without a second thought imo. I don’t think he is near as good as he is perceived in this market. 

[The_People1]

Neither of our goalies are worth keeping.  But Vladar is younger, cheaper, and gave us the same sub-900 sv% as Markstrom.  I would just keep the younger and cheaper guy.

 

Markstrom is also untradeable at his age and cap hit.  No one wants him unless there's a GM out there who thinks hockey like John Bean.  Doubt it.

 

Vladar is the one to keep over Markstrom but both can go.  Just make room for Wolf to start about 30 games and shelter him with a vet as backup.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I guess with Vladar, I am concerned we keep the wrong goalie by trading him.

 

sorry for focused quote,

 

The question imho isn't whether we might keep the wrong goalie.

 

The question is whether we're going to keep 2 wrong goalies, or just 1 wrong goalie.

 

If I thought that trading Markstrom was an option, I would be on your side of the argument.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

sorry for focused quote,

 

The question imho isn't whether we might keep the wrong goalie.

 

The question is whether we're going to keep 2 wrong goalies, or just 1 wrong goalie.

 

Just wait until Sigalet and LaBarbera gets a hold of Dustin Wolf.

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Just wait until Sigalet and LaBarbera gets a hold of Dustin Wolf.

 

I made a thread for that you know..  😅

 

Super important that they take more steps in management, yes.   I believe they will, but we may have to wait.  Long enough to make us real nervous with Wolf.