2023 Offseason

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Detroit isn't a small market, but what small markets do with RFA's will have an effect on the big markets as well.  How many others will seek the same pay off potential?  

 

Just my opinion that Ottawa didn't need to do this now, I don't see him having the type of sophomore year that is going to put him in Makar or Fox territory.  Don't get the urgency to do it now.

 

I think that's the thing.  Ottawa is as small market as small markets come.  If this is the way to lock up core pieces (aka pay them before they put up the numbers), then this is the way.  

 

They did it with Chabot, Tkachuk, and Stutzle.  Just hit them with max term coming off their rookie deals.  Sanderson is arguably a $4 to $5-mil D right now.  Second pair guy.

 

Bottom line is you bet on their development.  Take an educated gamble.  Sanderson could become a $10-mil player in 5 years and you buy 3 of his UFA years right now.  Locked up for 9-years.  No more threats of leaving, etc.  Great for team morale, etc.

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, sak22 said:

Detroit isn't a small market, but what small markets do with RFA's will have an effect on the big markets as well.  How many others will seek the same pay off potential?  

 

Just my opinion that Ottawa didn't need to do this now, I don't see him having the type of sophomore year that is going to put him in Makar or Fox territory.  Don't get the urgency to do it now.

Detroit is definitely not a small market. The city lists at 250,000 I believe, but GDA is realistically around 3.5mil.

I agree the Sens didn't need to do this now, but it's likely a good move to not let it ride for them. Now they can move along. It's not a bad business plan to invest in tomorrow for stability for them. It's certainly the trend for them, Buffalo and NJ.

I alluded to Seider as he's the next Dman in line, although ahead of Sanderson.

Seider, Raymond, Rasmussen and Johnny Burgers are all up next year. Raises my anxiety. I wouldn't hate seeing some of that business get dealt with sooner. Likely looking at 20% of the payroll with Raymond bouncing back from forgetting how to receive a pass, which he should.

Seider is in that Makar territory although zero dmen are Makar. Makar's a bargain at $9. If Yzerman can use that comparable I'd be happy. But I'm fine with Foxes $9.5 for Seider.

Still shocked Zegras and Drysdale remain. Friedman is saying Zegras will be a bridge. Smart move. There's more to hockey than Michigans and he's not an 8mil player currently. More surprised at the Drysdale hold-up.

[jjgallow]

14 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think that's the thing.  Ottawa is as small market as small markets come.  If this is the way to lock up core pieces (aka pay them before they put up the numbers), then this is the way.  

 

They did it with Chabot, Tkachuk, and Stutzle.  Just hit them with max term coming off their rookie deals.  Sanderson is arguably a $4 to $5-mil D right now.  Second pair guy.

 

Bottom line is you bet on their development.  Take an educated gamble.  Sanderson could become a $10-mil player in 5 years and you buy 3 of his UFA years right now.  Locked up for 9-years.  No more threats of leaving, etc.  Great for team morale, etc.

 

I think it's a good way.   But, I also think Canadian teams need to get better at drafting and developing youth.

 

Once guys and their wives get accustomed to the school shootings they seem to get quite entrenched and not willing to come here, or stay here.

 

But if you draft and develop your youth right, and they meet some local gals, all is good.

 

Even if it's not good, they can have crazy high trade value.

 

 

It's true that the contract extensions are big.  But I also believe that having a steady flow of youth is really key for small market teams and quite honestly makes for better hockey.    You get a steady flow of youth by great drafting, great developing, not destroying your pipeline with "win now" gambles, and not getting attached to your aging vets.

[sak22]

16 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think that's the thing.  Ottawa is as small market as small markets come.  If this is the way to lock up core pieces (aka pay them before they put up the numbers), then this is the way.  

 

They did it with Chabot, Tkachuk, and Stutzle.  Just hit them with max term coming off their rookie deals.  Sanderson is arguably a $4 to $5-mil D right now.  Second pair guy.

 

Bottom line is you bet on their development.  Take an educated gamble.  Sanderson could become a $10-mil player in 5 years and you buy 3 of his UFA years right now.  Locked up for 9-years.  No more threats of leaving, etc.  Great for team morale, etc.

There really isn't a threat of leaving off of a 2 or 3 year bridge as he'd still be at least 2 or 3 years away from UFA, I think pay him for what he is now because your already locked in high with Tkachuk, Stutzle, Chabot, Norris and even with the cap rising won't have much going into next offseason.  There's also risk of him not reaching that potential. Imagine if the Flames signed Bennett to 8x8 after the 18 goal rookie year.  I don't think Ottawa is looking at a fear of a Matthew Tkachuk, but more a fear of another Brady Tkachuk who holds out and misses time.  Ottawa historically hasn't had as many issues with guys 25 and under it's usually the guys pushing 30 and almost always guys demanding out with term.

[The_People1]

42 minutes ago, sak22 said:

There really isn't a threat of leaving off of a 2 or 3 year bridge as he'd still be at least 2 or 3 years away from UFA, I think pay him for what he is now because your already locked in high with Tkachuk, Stutzle, Chabot, Norris and even with the cap rising won't have much going into next offseason.  There's also risk of him not reaching that potential. Imagine if the Flames signed Bennett to 8x8 after the 18 goal rookie year.  I don't think Ottawa is looking at a fear of a Matthew Tkachuk, but more a fear of another Brady Tkachuk who holds out and misses time.  Ottawa historically hasn't had as many issues with guys 25 and under it's usually the guys pushing 30 and almost always guys demanding out with term.

 

OTT is trying something different for sure.  I can see where they are coming from and it's based around fear.  In 6/7 years, we will find out if it was the right strategy.   For now, it's just interesting as an observer because it's a novel way to put together a roster.

 

This could cause implications across the league because prospects around the NHL are going to start saying the kids in OTT got $8-mil before proving they can put up the numbers.

[sak22]

17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

OTT is trying something different for sure.  I can see where they are coming from and it's based around fear.  In 6/7 years, we will find out if it was the right strategy.   For now, it's just interesting as an observer because it's a novel way to put together a roster.

 

This could cause implications across the league because prospects around the NHL are going to start saying the kids in OTT got $8-mil before proving they can put up the numbers.

I get the purpose, just not the rush to do it.  I don't see him in the Fox or Makar territory as a player so I don't think his value jumps much next year, if he has a slump give him another year and see where he is at at see where the team is at with Chychrun.   I can't say it's a move I'd make, but will be interested to see how it plays out.

[The_People1]

Not sure where to post this but there are rumours the NHL will announce heavy suspensions for 5 players from WJ Team Canada 2018.

 

There are some speculations that Carter Hart, Brett Howden, and Dillon Dube have moved their social medias to private in anticipation of the NHL's announcement.

 

Not saying they are part of the five soon to be suspended... and some have said Dube has been private since at least a year ago...

 

https://www.habsfanatics.com/Five-players-from-Team-Canada-2018-heavily-suspended-by-the-NHL-three-players-have-just-made-a-move-that-is-causing-a-stir-on-the-web-273720

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Not sure where to post this but there are rumours the NHL will announce heavy suspensions for 5 players from WJ Team Canada 2018.

 

There are some speculations that Carter Hart, Brett Howden, and Dillon Dube have moved their social medias to private in anticipation of the NHL's announcement.

 

Not saying they are part of the five soon to be suspended... and some have said Dube has been private since at least a year ago...

 

https://www.habsfanatics.com/Five-players-from-Team-Canada-2018-heavily-suspended-by-the-NHL-three-players-have-just-made-a-move-that-is-causing-a-stir-on-the-web-273720

Full stop. Dube's social media accounts have always been private, as likely everyone in the NHL is.

They've been rumouring this for a week now. Always tomorrow...

Here's the list of my suspects:

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/206/london-knights/2017-2018

 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Full stop. Dube's social media accounts have always been private, as likely everyone in the NHL is.

They've been rumouring this for a week now. Always tomorrow...

Here's the list of my suspects:

https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/206/london-knights/2017-2018

 

 

7 NHL contracts on that big list, or at least ones that had deals.

Formenton doesn't.

Not on this list but Comtois also doesn't.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

7 NHL contracts on that big list, or at least ones that had deals.

Formenton doesn't.

Not on this list but Comtois also doesn't.

Comtois was a Q player. As I'm trying to purvey, correctly in my mind, is he wouldn't be in their clique. Not saying I'm right, but for me this has always pointed at the OHL generally and the Knights specifically. She lives in London, it was a player that she liked. Then his buddies. It's clearly a Knights player and the his Blockchaining clique of Hash Rate.

Guys like Stamkos, Chychrun, Kyrou, (whom I can speak for) didn't even hang out with their own clique. Think of all of the idiot jocks in high school that never went anywhere with it. Their cliques. This will be similar. If guys like Bouchard and Thomas and Max Jones did the cliquey jock thing, even that would surprise me. But those are the guys closest I would say.

Because Formenton looks guilty as sin rn. Nobody's touching him, Swiss League?

[travel_dude]

42 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Comtois was a Q player. As I'm trying to purvey, correctly in my mind, is he wouldn't be in their clique. Not saying I'm right, but for me this has always pointed at the OHL generally and the Knights specifically. She lives in London, it was a player that she liked. Then his buddies. It's clearly a Knights player and the his Blockchaining clique of Hash Rate.

Guys like Stamkos, Chychrun, Kyrou, (whom I can speak for) didn't even hang out with their own clique. Think of all of the idiot jocks in high school that never went anywhere with it. Their cliques. This will be similar. If guys like Bouchard and Thomas and Max Jones did the cliquey jock thing, even that would surprise me. But those are the guys closest I would say.

Because Formenton looks guilty as sin rn. Nobody's touching him, Swiss League?

 

I'm not implying anything by mentioning Comtois, just that some have jobs and some players from that year don't.  For Dube, there seems to be a push to get a deal signed, so at the moment I have no concerns about him.  I say it that way because I have zero insight into the topic.  The GM would be more on top of this than fans and media click-baiters.  

 

Formenton seems to have some stink around him that started awhile ago.  Whether he is one of them or not, the team doesn't want to touch him.  Anyway, I don't really want to speculate.  Just pointing out that there are 7 players at the NHL level right now from your list.

[bosn111]

Ok, been away and busy for a while, know I have missed a bunch of discussions on various topics, but wanted to spit ball a little here.

 

Recent news from other teams shows PTO s being signed by established, though mid to low tier players over the past few days.

 

From Daily Hive yesterday, the Flames are still considering bringing in a younger PTO or 2, but want to leave spots for younger players to compete for.

 

Is it likely that Conroe is waiting on the prospects tournament to see if the young guys are hungry out of the gate? If they push hard right from the outset of the tournament, it shows they are really wanting to succeed? On the other hand a slow start means bring in PTOs just in case? 
 

Even though the Flames have a glut of D, I would be ok inviting Ethan Bear. At forward Puljujarvi may not be a bad option.

 

Anaheim, Chicago, Buffalo, can all take on cap hits without sending anything back, could there be opportunities there? 
 

Would Anaheim move Drysdale+ for Hanifin? Potential for known commodity type move? This could accelerate their rebuild.

just a couple thoughts.

 

[Sarasti]

On 9/10/2023 at 9:25 AM, travel_dude said:

 

7 NHL contracts on that big list, or at least ones that had deals.

Formenton doesn't.

Not on this list but Comtois also doesn't.

 

Of all the players I've read comments from concerning this matter, Formenton is the only one who declined to comment at all. 

Thats telling to me.

[The_People1]

57 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

Ok, been away and busy for a while, know I have missed a bunch of discussions on various topics, but wanted to spit ball a little here.

 

Recent news from other teams shows PTO s being signed by established, though mid to low tier players over the past few days.

 

From Daily Hive yesterday, the Flames are still considering bringing in a younger PTO or 2, but want to leave spots for younger players to compete for.

 

Is it likely that Conroe is waiting on the prospects tournament to see if the young guys are hungry out of the gate? If they push hard right from the outset of the tournament, it shows they are really wanting to succeed? On the other hand a slow start means bring in PTOs just in case? 
 

Even though the Flames have a glut of D, I would be ok inviting Ethan Bear. At forward Puljujarvi may not be a bad option.

 

Anaheim, Chicago, Buffalo, can all take on cap hits without sending anything back, could there be opportunities there? 
 

Would Anaheim move Drysdale+ for Hanifin? Potential for known commodity type move? This could accelerate their rebuild.

just a couple thoughts.

 

 

Makes sense in regards to seeing how the Prospects Tourney shapes out.  Maybe we've got two or three kids ready to make the leap.  Then forget the PTO.

 

Puljujarvi had double hip surgery and is out until December, and judging by how bad Monahan came back from single hip surgery, my guess is Puljujarvi's career might be over.

 

Buffalo rumored to be interested in Hanifin but is only offering a 2nd round pick + mid-tier prospect.

 

Flames best bet might be to hang onto Hanifin until TDL where top pair D have traditionally gone for a 1st + mid-prospect + NHL player.

[jjgallow]

 

Ok,  I resisted the urge to bump an old thread.

 

But

 

Gotta say, it is quite fitting that Gaudreau's new coach is Babcock lol

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Makes sense in regards to seeing how the Prospects Tourney shapes out.  Maybe we've got two or three kids ready to make the leap.  Then forget the PTO.

 

Puljujarvi had double hip surgery and is out until December, and judging by how bad Monahan came back from single hip surgery, my guess is Puljujarvi's career might be over.

 

Buffalo rumored to be interested in Hanifin but is only offering a 2nd round pick + mid-tier prospect.

 

Flames best bet might be to hang onto Hanifin until TDL where top pair D have traditionally gone for a 1st + mid-prospect + NHL player.

 

Monahan had 2 hip surgeries in different years.  The last one was before joining Montreal and having a resurgence.  Poolparty's NHL career may be over, but that probably comes from being ruined in EDM during his dev years.  He never really clicked in CAR.  As a PTO, he is young and big body RHS RW.  Duehr is probably that level as a 4th liner, so may not be room, but we are depending on 1 RHS RW for the top 9.  

 

STL is in the market now, so maybe they have offers.  If nothing in the offing, then we have to wait till season starts before injuries start to make D more attractive.  I would also consider Bear as an option, initially LTIR if he isn't healthy.  Spares are always good to have.

[robrob74]

I was a touch bit disappointed with the Tofolli deal at the time. I was expecting more of a haul than we got. Not fair to Sharingovich, but boy was that a fleecing. Looks terrible. 

[sak22]

9 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I was a touch bit disappointed with the Tofolli deal at the time. I was expecting more of a haul than we got. Not fair to Sharingovich, but boy was that a fleecing. Looks terrible. 

Which trade from the offseason do you think benefitted both teams the best?  Wasn't a good trade market period, and I don't think it will be viewed in the top 5 for worst 2023 offseason trades 5 years from now.

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Which trade from the offseason do you think benefitted both teams the best?  Wasn't a good trade market period, and I don't think it will be viewed in the top 5 for worst 2023 offseason trades 5 years from now.

Ya, I get it. Don't think a total fleece. Do we know what we have in Sharingovich yet?

[sak22]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Ya, I get it. Don't think a total fleece. Do we know what we have in Sharingovich yet?

No, there are good signs but mostly pretty meh.  Lets see how the next little bit goes.  The good thing is Suniev is off to a pretty good start for UMass with 3 goals in 6 games.  The other side if Jersey doesn't win a cup and Toffoli leaves next summer then it really isn't a win for them either.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, sak22 said:

Which trade from the offseason do you think benefitted both teams the best?  Wasn't a good trade market period, and I don't think it will be viewed in the top 5 for worst 2023 offseason trades 5 years from now.

 

55 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Ya, I get it. Don't think a total fleece. Do we know what we have in Sharingovich yet?

 

45 minutes ago, sak22 said:

No, there are good signs but mostly pretty meh.  Lets see how the next little bit goes.  The good thing is Suniev is off to a pretty good start for UMass with 3 goals in 6 games.  The other side if Jersey doesn't win a cup and Toffoli leaves next summer then it really isn't a win for them either.

 

I think it's not the best time to evaluate the player.  The Flames have had very little success in targeting the right player or integrating that player into the team game (whatever that is).  Toffoli was not great to start but he had enough experience under Sutter to start to excel.  Jarnkrok was a miss.  Huberdeau and Weegar are taking a long time.  Rooney hasn't worked out as a UFA signing, nor has Oesterle yet.  

 

Most of these players were effective on former teams.  Some are effective on future teams.  I can only blame so much on individual skill of existing players and the culture.  It has to be a lot deeper than that.  Perhaps we need to throw out the coaching book and adopt a new style.  Not just D, but PP, 5v5, PK, EN, and practice.  

[robrob74]

Could it be Huberdeau is slowing things down and waiting for everyone to catch up? In Florida the offence flowed, always on the move.

[The_People1]

58 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Could it be Huberdeau is slowing things down and waiting for everyone to catch up? In Florida the offence flowed, always on the move.

 

Possible.  Sharangovich might be the best option on his RW.  He has decent speed and a heavy shot.  Backlund is our fastest Center based on skills competition.  That trio could work.