2023 Offseason

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Where do you feel should be the line?  If Dillingham makes the Leafs main roster, then should he be given the green light to line up Matthews and Marner during scrimmage?  I mean, all under the pretense that he's just trying to do his job?  There's practicing and then there's going to battle against the other team.  Maybe save these hits for the other team?

I do. If it's Marner or Matthews, he'll be conservative about stepping up because they're such dominant players. You don't let the puck carrier dance into your zone like this instance. Marner and Matthews would be aware, they do it all of the time vs top shelf NHLers. Dillingham would know that and defend differently.

He made a perfect hockey play in this instance separating man from puck.

I liked Rosehill throughout that breakdown, especially talking about his own experience. You feel bad destroying an opponent, but moreso you're left thinking about the other player in terms of, "awwww man, why did you play it that way"?

It happens fast at this level of hockey.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I do. If it's Marner or Matthews, he'll be conservative about stepping up because they're such dominant players. You don't let the puck carrier dance into your zone like this instance. Marner and Matthews would be aware, they do it all of the time vs top shelf NHLers. Dillingham would know that and defend differently.

He made a perfect hockey play in this instance separating man from puck.

I liked Rosehill throughout that breakdown, especially talking about his own experience. You feel bad destroying an opponent, but moreso you're left thinking about the other player in terms of, "awwww man, why did you play it that way"?

It happens fast at this level of hockey.

 

Oh 100% the play was the play.  Cleanest hit from start to finish.  You have a LHS coming down the right side with his head down.  Didn't see it coming.  

 

I was more getting at "the code".  When is it wrong to step up like that?  Is it the name on the sweater or running simple drills, etc?

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Oh 100% the play was the play.  Cleanest hit from start to finish.  You have a LHS coming down the right side with his head down.  Didn't see it coming.  

 

I was more getting at "the code".  When is it wrong to step up like that?  Is it the name on the sweater or running simple drills, etc?

 

It depends on the team and the player delivering the hit.

Think back to Seiloff in camp for OTT.

Laid a huge hit and was driven off the team.

 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

It depends on the team and the player delivering the hit.

Think back to Seiloff in camp for OTT.

Laid a huge hit and was driven off the team.

 

Exactly.  If rookie develop camp results in one rookie ending another, then have we lost the plot?

[conundrumed]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Oh 100% the play was the play.  Cleanest hit from start to finish.  You have a LHS coming down the right side with his head down.  Didn't see it coming.  

 

I was more getting at "the code".  When is it wrong to step up like that?  Is it the name on the sweater or running simple drills, etc?

In practice. If you've made it, save the edge for game time.

I think the line in tryouts is when the appearance of headhunting comes up. One that crosses the line for me was Phaneuf on Okposo, as an example. That one is pretty much the line, but my opinion is that it crosses it.

I should start by saying that I saw Phaneuf a fair bit with Red Deer. I didn't like our selection with Getzlaf on the board, I wasn't sold after his rookie season. He just isn't very good at D and his rushes he had zero vision. Low IQ.

So here's the clip. What I see is a player coming in 1-on-3. The winger has him and the LD is right there to take the puck. The winger puts Okposo off balance and vulnerable. Phaneuf leaves his position to cross his other Dman and lay the hit. Because he has constant tunnel vision and low IQ, he's not letting up. He shouldn't have even been there.

Let's change the scenario a bit. Okposo isn't off balance, sees Phaneuf and his LW is streaking down Phaneuf's side. Breakaway. This drove me nuts with Phaneuf, and to a far rarer extent, but sometimes Regehr.

I liked Phaneuf even less after this play. As coach, I'd be benching him and losing it on him about abandoning his D responsibility. There would have been a lot of swearing. Fwd to today, the league investigated how I talked to players when I'm angry and I'm now suspended pending the results of an investigation that fades away without conclusion.lol

 

[conundrumed]

11 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It depends on the team and the player delivering the hit.

Think back to Seiloff in camp for OTT.

Laid a huge hit and was driven off the team.

 

That's not actually true. The hit wasn't nasty, just that MacArthur is made of glass. Sieloff didn't make the team simply because he wasn't good enough, as evidenced by never making the NHL for any team.

Can we stop talking about our high draft selections on Dmen now? lol

Stupid Windsor Spitfires being over-scouted to amplifying by us back in the day. Sieloff wasn't even very good in jr.

I was happy we drafted a guy that I could watch live until, you know, watching him live got in the way.

 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That's not actually true. The hit wasn't nasty, just that MacArthur is made of glass. Sieloff didn't make the team simply because he wasn't good enough, as evidenced by never making the NHL for any team.

Can we stop talking about our high draft selections on Dmen now? lol

Stupid Windsor Spitfires being over-scouted to amplifying by us back in the day. Sieloff wasn't even very good in jr.

I was happy we drafted a guy that I could watch live until, you know, watching him live got in the way.

 

 

I don't really care about the players in question, just making the point that some teams rally behind the "victim".  I am fully aware how poor a player he was (could have had Severson).  I never got the justification for drafting him in the 2nd.  After all, we were scouting the WHL so closely and passed on Severson.

 

Interesting factoid.  Seiloff played one NHL game for CGY and one for OTT and he scored in each of them.  I think in our case it was a pointless game 82 that had Backstrom playing in nets for the win.

[jjgallow]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't really care about the players in question, just making the point that some teams rally behind the "victim".  I am fully aware how poor a player he was (could have had Severson).  I never got the justification for drafting him in the 2nd.  After all, we were scouting the WHL so closely and passed on Severson.

 

Interesting factoid.  Seiloff played one NHL game for CGY and one for OTT and he scored in each of them.  I think in our case it was a pointless game 82 that had Backstrom playing in nets for the win.

 

That is insane with Seilioff lol.  I mean...I don't think he was blackballed, it was more that he was in the wrong era.

 

Even though I agree that Dillingham didn't do anything wrong, ultimately a smarter player would have backed off in that particular situation, and I think for that reason, it will hurt him, it exposed him as not being an intelligent player.

 

But....I mean, at the end of the day UPS drivers make more than AHLers and they get a lot less injuries so this is not a sad story, all will be fine however it goes.    It would be a sad story if it prevented him from the NHL.

[Sarasti]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't really care about the players in question, just making the point that some teams rally behind the "victim".  I am fully aware how poor a player he was (could have had Severson).  I never got the justification for drafting him in the 2nd.  After all, we were scouting the WHL so closely and passed on Severson.

 

Interesting factoid.  Seiloff played one NHL game for CGY and one for OTT and he scored in each of them.  I think in our case it was a pointless game 82 that had Backstrom playing in nets for the win.

 

Yeah I remember. 

Absolutely a fluke of a goal too. 

But hey good on him, I mean I have a total of 0 NHL goals 🤷‍♀️

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

In practice. If you've made it, save the edge for game time.

I think the line in tryouts is when the appearance of headhunting comes up. One that crosses the line for me was Phaneuf on Okposo, as an example. That one is pretty much the line, but my opinion is that it crosses it.

I should start by saying that I saw Phaneuf a fair bit with Red Deer. I didn't like our selection with Getzlaf on the board, I wasn't sold after his rookie season. He just isn't very good at D and his rushes he had zero vision. Low IQ.

So here's the clip. What I see is a player coming in 1-on-3. The winger has him and the LD is right there to take the puck. The winger puts Okposo off balance and vulnerable. Phaneuf leaves his position to cross his other Dman and lay the hit. Because he has constant tunnel vision and low IQ, he's not letting up. He shouldn't have even been there.

Let's change the scenario a bit. Okposo isn't off balance, sees Phaneuf and his LW is streaking down Phaneuf's side. Breakaway. This drove me nuts with Phaneuf, and to a far rarer extent, but sometimes Regehr.

I liked Phaneuf even less after this play. As coach, I'd be benching him and losing it on him about abandoning his D responsibility. There would have been a lot of swearing. Fwd to today, the league investigated how I talked to players when I'm angry and I'm now suspended pending the results of an investigation that fades away without conclusion.lol

 

 

The Okoposo hit is literally the same hit as Dillingham one but you praised one but not the other.  That Phaneuf hit was so clean plus it's a real game, not rookie camp.  Also different era.

 

Anyways.

[jjgallow]

23 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The Okoposo hit is literally the same hit as Dillingham one but you praised one but not the other.  That Phaneuf hit was so clean plus it's a real game, not rookie camp.  Also different era.

 

Anyways.

 

I get what @conundrumed's attempting to do, I think lol.

 

The Ogopogo hit was praised by fans, and the Dillingham hit was demonized.    He's calling bs on both reactions.  Fair, within the right context.

 

He's a true contrarion.    For instance, most on these boards are constantly loving, liking, and agreeing with what I write without any hesitation.   My posts are extremely well received.  So sometimes he tries to balance all that love out and bring me back down to earth.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

The Okoposo hit is literally the same hit as Dillingham one but you praised one but not the other.  That Phaneuf hit was so clean plus it's a real game, not rookie camp.  Also different era.

 

Anyways.

lol. Hirvonen wasn’t in coverage. Not the same at all. Okposo was in full coverage.

Phaneuf charged, Dillingham glided.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I get what @conundrumed's attempting to do, I think lol.

 

The Ogopogo hit was praised by fans, and the Dillingham hit was demonized.    He's calling bs on both reactions.  Fair, within the right context.

 

He's a true contrarion.    For instance, most on these boards are constantly loving, liking, and agreeing with what I write without any hesitation.   My posts are extremely well received.  So sometimes he tries to balance all that love out and bring me back down to earth.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

lol. Hirvonen wasn’t in coverage. Not the same at all. Okposo was in full coverage.

Phaneuf charged, Dillingham glided.

 

[conundrumed]

17 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Even though I agree that Dillingham didn't do anything wrong, ultimately a smarter player would have backed off in that particular situation, and I think for that reason, it will hurt him, it exposed him as not being an intelligent player.

 

I'm a Sting STH. I don't think any of that happened. I wish there was a clip that starts 10 seconds before because I feel like he was just getting back into formation prior to the hit.

Make no mistake, all players take numbers before a game. I did in atom.lol

You do it so you know which guy can burn you and which guy you think you can expose. Especially vs unfamiliar opponents. My favourite, I always focused on captains if I knew nothing. One was Shawn Burr. I stopped focusing on him about 2 minutes in because he was terrible. We were about 14. Shawn Burr went on to have a solid NHL career.rofl.

All he was was big but he was a horrible skater and a weak shot. He showed us.lol

It is flat out amazing what summer hockey camps can build from scratch if their parents can afford it. At 14, Burr wouldn't have been in the top 100 players in Sarnia alone. Future NHLer.lol

Mike Gardiner's another. I used to have flat out pitching duels against him as a kid. Me Sarnia, him Corunna. Who knew if I stuck with it I'd have had a shot at MLB?

But I preferred hockey and basketball and as I hit my teens had to sacrifice a sport. I wasn't a very good hitter so baseball it was.

As yet another topic because we're still waiting, basketball is far and away the best sport to make kids decent all around athletes. Helps hand-eye and vision huge, leg strength, stamina, moving in bursts in every direction, all-around co-ordination and finesse... all of the things that help in every sport. As a hockey goalie, bball D workouts were huge. Crouched and shuffling as fast as you can until your legs fall off. I had zero problems in skating drills with pads on and doing that on skates.

Dryland training in hockey was half of the normal, everyday basketball practice. Leg exercises were almost laughable. You could tell the guys that play basketball going twice as fast as everyone else on average. We always got the "pushup punishment" for goofing on it. 

One thing that I'll never understand as a RH about 80% ambidextrous is how RHers use their dominant hand on top of a club, stick, bat etc. I just can't wrap my head around how you use your other hand as your finesse hand. I have lots of friends like this and "I just do" is the only answer. You shoot right in hockey and golf left is one that always confounds me.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

One thing that I'll never understand as a RH about 80% ambidextrous is how RHers use their dominant hand on top of a club, stick, bat etc. I just can't wrap my head around how you use your other hand as your finesse hand. I have lots of friends like this and "I just do" is the only answer. You shoot right in hockey and golf left is one that always confounds me.

 

I fall into the category of RH, RHS, RH golf, RH hitter in baseball, RH dominant in basketball. 

My brother and friends played hockey a bit longer than me and they were RH with a LHS.  

They always talked about your strong high on the stick, but it felt alien to me.

Like trying to hit left in golf.

 

As a goalie, I was better with the glove on my right hand but it left the stick side weaker.

And playing the glove on left hand gave me great control with the stick.

And yet I could only ever think about catching baseballs on my left hand.

Go figure.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

One thing that I'll never understand as a RH about 80% ambidextrous is how RHers use their dominant hand on top of a club, stick, bat etc. I just can't wrap my head around how you use your other hand as your finesse hand. I have lots of friends like this and "I just do" is the only answer. You shoot right in hockey and golf left is one that always confounds me.

 

33 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

I fall into the category of RH, RHS, RH golf, RH hitter in baseball, RH dominant in basketball. 

My brother and friends played hockey a bit longer than me and they were RH with a LHS.  

They always talked about your strong high on the stick, but it felt alien to me.

Like trying to hit left in golf.

 

As a goalie, I was better with the glove on my right hand but it left the stick side weaker.

And playing the glove on left hand gave me great control with the stick.

And yet I could only ever think about catching baseballs on my left hand.

Go figure.

 

I am RH but play hockey LHS.  I prefer to have my dominant hand at the top of the stick.  It just feels right to use the strong hand when reaching and poke checking.  And yes, even when "finessing", the RH does a lot of the work.

 

I can bat both sides in baseball and it's interesting how I have all the LH and RH bat tendencies... Like, LH batters are notorious low ball hitters and RH batters hit the high fast balls better.

 

I have golfed both sides as well but decided to play LHS.  It just felt better but I regretted this decision as I found a lot of hockey habits carried over to golf.  I may switch back to RHS later.

 

My conclusion is this, no matter which side I play, I am still using my RH as dominant.  This doesn't change just because of playing LHS in any sport.  The body just has to mirror the motions to the other side.

[sak22]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 

One thing that I'll never understand as a RH about 80% ambidextrous is how RHers use their dominant hand on top of a club, stick, bat etc. I just can't wrap my head around how you use your other hand as your finesse hand. I have lots of friends like this and "I just do" is the only answer. You shoot right in hockey and golf left is one that always confounds me.

I'm a righty who shoots left, in golf I swing right but have found in recent years I can putt left possibly better than on the right, tried other facets lefty with zero success, baseball I've done some switch hitting I get more power on the left but make better contact on the right so went primarily to hitting righty.

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I'm a Sting STH. I don't think any of that happened. I wish there was a clip that starts 10 seconds before because I feel like he was just getting back into formation prior to the hit.

Make no mistake, all players take numbers before a game. I did in atom.lol

You do it so you know which guy can burn you and which guy you think you can expose. Especially vs unfamiliar opponents. My favourite, I always focused on captains if I knew nothing. One was Shawn Burr. I stopped focusing on him about 2 minutes in because he was terrible. We were about 14. Shawn Burr went on to have a solid NHL career.rofl.

All he was was big but he was a horrible skater and a weak shot. He showed us.lol

It is flat out amazing what summer hockey camps can build from scratch if their parents can afford it. At 14, Burr wouldn't have been in the top 100 players in Sarnia alone. Future NHLer.lol

Mike Gardiner's another. I used to have flat out pitching duels against him as a kid. Me Sarnia, him Corunna. Who knew if I stuck with it I'd have had a shot at MLB?

But I preferred hockey and basketball and as I hit my teens had to sacrifice a sport. I wasn't a very good hitter so baseball it was.

As yet another topic because we're still waiting, basketball is far and away the best sport to make kids decent all around athletes. Helps hand-eye and vision huge, leg strength, stamina, moving in bursts in every direction, all-around co-ordination and finesse... all of the things that help in every sport. As a hockey goalie, bball D workouts were huge. Crouched and shuffling as fast as you can until your legs fall off. I had zero problems in skating drills with pads on and doing that on skates.

Dryland training in hockey was half of the normal, everyday basketball practice. Leg exercises were almost laughable. You could tell the guys that play basketball going twice as fast as everyone else on average. We always got the "pushup punishment" for goofing on it. 

One thing that I'll never understand as a RH about 80% ambidextrous is how RHers use their dominant hand on top of a club, stick, bat etc. I just can't wrap my head around how you use your other hand as your finesse hand. I have lots of friends like this and "I just do" is the only answer. You shoot right in hockey and golf left is one that always confounds me.

 

 

It's always inspiring to see people who are terrible at one level rise up and be terrible at a whole new level.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I fall into the category of RH, RHS, RH golf, RH hitter in baseball, RH dominant in basketball. 

My brother and friends played hockey a bit longer than me and they were RH with a LHS.  

They always talked about your strong high on the stick, but it felt alien to me.

Like trying to hit left in golf.

 

As a goalie, I was better with the glove on my right hand but it left the stick side weaker.

And playing the glove on left hand gave me great control with the stick.

And yet I could only ever think about catching baseballs on my left hand.

Go figure.

Likely due to baseball I never even considered catching with my right. It would have helped my puckhandling but I learned to handle the puck LH pretty good. I can switch-hit and golf left but with about 70-80% of RH power. I can shoot a puck LH but more due to being forced to because I caught left and I'd get freaked on if I tried to flip my stick to shoot right. Nowhere near the finesse of my RHS though. A lot of that and basketball got me being somewhat ambidextrous I believe. I can swing a hammer pretty equally LH or RH so...life skills.lol

edit

I should add I turned to goalie at 12-13 because our goalies sucked. Then I got punted from tryouts showing up as a goalie but made my way back quickly...our goalies were awful. I played C and then they moved me to D in my last skater year. Good mems how I got yelled at for showing up saying I'm a goalie now. lol Straight to 'B' House League. Too funny. Stupid adults.

I was back with the travel team in net in a little over 2 weeks. Good times. I was gone so long here when I've run into old teammates they tell the story hilariously. And my constant swearing at adults. I forgot that part. The joys of advice from older brothers that played travel and helped fight my battles.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Likely due to baseball I never even considered catching with my right. It would have helped my puckhandling but I learned to handle the puck LH pretty good. I can switch-hit and golf left but with about 70-80% of RH power. I can shoot a puck LH but more due to being forced to because I caught left and I'd get freaked on if I tried to flip my stick to shoot right. Nowhere near the finesse of my RHS though. A lot of that and basketball got me being somewhat ambidextrous I believe. I can swing a hammer pretty equally LH or RH so...life skills.lol

edit

I should add I turned to goalie at 12-13 because our goalies sucked. Then I got punted from tryouts showing up as a goalie but made my way back quickly...our goalies were awful. I played C and then they moved me to D in my last skater year. Good mems how I got yelled at for showing up saying I'm a goalie now. lol Straight to 'B' House League. Too funny. Stupid adults.

I was back with the travel team in net in a little over 2 weeks. Good times. I was gone so long here when I've run into old teammates they tell the story hilariously. And my constant swearing at adults. I forgot that part. The joys of advice from older brothers that played travel and helped fight my battles.

 

I would probably have played C if I stuck it out in junior hockey, but they wanted me to play defense and I had zero interest in it.  But, I am all about offense, so I would be embarrassed by Backlund types who play a 200 foot game.  I want to be in the face of the goalie and snag rebounds or deflect pucks.  My hand-eye (or as Hrudey used to call it eye-hand) coordination is really good, so baseball hitting and rebound scoring in hockey were my strong suits.  

 

Hitting left would be weird only because the power from the leading hand would be stronger, so I don't think I could belt it.  

 

Anyway, back to reality.  Like to see the Flames do something over the next few weeks.  Like sign Lindholm if that's the direction.  Or trade Hanifin or Backlund if they get any offers worth looking at.  Even trading Vladar should be considered.  Buffalo has two goalies with terrible track records.  They should look at a goalie that has had a decent season and one meh season.  Comrie isn't exactly starter material.  

[conundrumed]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would probably have played C if I stuck it out in junior hockey, but they wanted me to play defense and I had zero interest in it.  But, I am all about offense, so I would be embarrassed by Backlund types who play a 200 foot game.  I want to be in the face of the goalie and snag rebounds or deflect pucks.  My hand-eye (or as Hrudey used to call it eye-hand) coordination is really good, so baseball hitting and rebound scoring in hockey were my strong suits.  

 

Hitting left would be weird only because the power from the leading hand would be stronger, so I don't think I could belt it.  

 

Anyway, back to reality.  Like to see the Flames do something over the next few weeks.  Like sign Lindholm if that's the direction.  Or trade Hanifin or Backlund if they get any offers worth looking at.  Even trading Vladar should be considered.  Buffalo has two goalies with terrible track records.  They should look at a goalie that has had a decent season and one meh season.  Comrie isn't exactly starter material.  

I think Buffalo is ready to throw Levi right into the fire. Comrie would be solid by now if not for countless injuries. He's pretty much at derailed level now if he can't stay in a lineup.

As much as, "nobody walks for free", I just don't think we have much ability to make trades right now. Seems like a losing proposition. Teams are into PTOs now and looking for cheaper alternatives to try first.

Surprised Tatar is still on the board.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I think Buffalo is ready to throw Levi right into the fire. Comrie would be solid by now if not for countless injuries. He's pretty much at derailed level now if he can't stay in a lineup.

As much as, "nobody walks for free", I just don't think we have much ability to make trades right now. Seems like a losing proposition. Teams are into PTOs now and looking for cheaper alternatives to try first.

Surprised Tatar is still on the board.

 

Is Buffalo going to stay forever as a team almost built and hope that they can outscore their problems?  Maybe not a bad idea for them, but really they have an awesome base of players.  A solid G would put them in playoffs for sure.  

 

PTO's are good to fill up the requirements to have vets in the lineup.  I don't think you often see PTO's used to find a goalie though.  As far as trades, no it's not exactly a great time to trade.  Too many teams are trying out their prospects and seeing if they have a strong enough team to start the season.  More PTO's for F and D will be extended.  But, with that there are only so many teams with cap available to sign the PTO's.  Tatar is caught in the spot of being too good to sign for $1M, but being in there with the $1M players that score 20-30 points per year that are unsigned.  Most teams have their top 6.  

[jjgallow]

48 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Is Buffalo going to stay forever as a team almost built and hope that they can outscore their problems?  Maybe not a bad idea for them, but really they have an awesome base of players.  A solid G would put them in playoffs for sure.  

 

PTO's are good to fill up the requirements to have vets in the lineup.  I don't think you often see PTO's used to find a goalie though.  As far as trades, no it's not exactly a great time to trade.  Too many teams are trying out their prospects and seeing if they have a strong enough team to start the season.  More PTO's for F and D will be extended.  But, with that there are only so many teams with cap available to sign the PTO's.  Tatar is caught in the spot of being too good to sign for $1M, but being in there with the $1M players that score 20-30 points per year that are unsigned.  Most teams have their top 6.  

 

They need a goalie bad-like.     Can for sure build around Power.

 

 

https://parks.canada.ca/pn-np/ab/banff/info/gestion-management/bison

[robrob74]

Reading a Lindholm quote in the Hockey Writers site, an interview he did with a Swedish reporter, he said he would consider staying and that was up to his agent and the Flames. For me the word is, consider. He would consider staying. Maybe I read too much into the language, and it might be just that, the language translations. But the word "consider" to me just means, if they meet the pay he will sign. So he's not budging on anything. 
 

he's a bargain at his pay the last two seasons and this upcoming one. He's not worth 9m, but does that pay make up for how he was underpaid the last 2 years plus this one about to start?

 

I guess I feel a bit odd, that if it was a relationship and someone was considering to date me, after awhile, it means the relationship is fractured. Feels similar... and not 100% all-in.