2023 Offseason

[sak22]

17 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Reading a Lindholm quote in the Hockey Writers site, an interview he did with a Swedish reporter, he said he would consider staying and that was up to his agent and the Flames. For me the word is, consider. He would consider staying. Maybe I read too much into the language, and it might be just that, the language translations. But the word "consider" to me just means, if they meet the pay he will sign. So he's not budging on anything. 
 

he's a bargain at his pay the last two seasons and this upcoming one. He's not worth 9m, but does that pay make up for how he was underpaid the last 2 years plus this one about to start?

 

I guess I feel a bit odd, that if it was a relationship and someone was considering to date me, after awhile, it means the relationship is fractured. Feels similar... and not 100% all-in. 

Keep in mind the captains of 2 of the last 3 Stanley Cup champions Stamkos and Landeskog signed their last contracts days before they could've hit free agency, and both those teams had shown to be true contenders at the times and their captains were open to waiting it out.  I think there is a lot of insecurity in this fanbase and its very understandable, Iggy, Kipper, Regehr, Gio, Glencross are all guys who extended early in their primes, while Johnny waited and it didn't pan out.  At the end I don't think its a case against the organization or city, it's more whether last year was the beginning of a downward trend or just a blip.  I don't blame him for wanting to see how things are around here to start, and I don't blame Conroy for not selling him for pennies on the dollar.

[robrob74]

12 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Keep in mind the captains of 2 of the last 3 Stanley Cup champions Stamkos and Landeskog signed their last contracts days before they could've hit free agency, and both those teams had shown to be true contenders at the times and their captains were open to waiting it out.  I think there is a lot of insecurity in this fanbase and its very understandable, Iggy, Kipper, Regehr, Gio, Glencross are all guys who extended early in their primes, while Johnny waited and it didn't pan out.  At the end I don't think its a case against the organization or city, it's more whether last year was the beginning of a downward trend or just a blip.  I don't blame him for wanting to see how things are around here to start, and I don't blame Conroy for not selling him for pennies on the dollar.

I think as a fan, the uncertainty has made this summer one of the hardest off-seasons I can remember. Honestly, the last season is pushing me further into apathy toward the team. I wonder how it is for others here. I can see that we've gotten a bit tired of theorizing over and over that we've turned to what hand we shoot, bat, or golf with. How about shooting pool!? 
 

but I think it's where some of us have gotten to. 
 

It gets tiring when the rumours we hear are basically rehashed for 2-3 months. 
 

you're right, those players did hold out last minute and determined that they had good chances with their current teams. 
 

problem with the Flames is that they're teetering on one end of the spectrum and the other, and his decision decides which way the Flames will totter...

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

Reading a Lindholm quote in the Hockey Writers site, an interview he did with a Swedish reporter, he said he would consider staying and that was up to his agent and the Flames. For me the word is, consider. He would consider staying. Maybe I read too much into the language, and it might be just that, the language translations. But the word "consider" to me just means, if they meet the pay he will sign. So he's not budging on anything. 
 

he's a bargain at his pay the last two seasons and this upcoming one. He's not worth 9m, but does that pay make up for how he was underpaid the last 2 years plus this one about to start?

 

I guess I feel a bit odd, that if it was a relationship and someone was considering to date me, after awhile, it means the relationship is fractured. Feels similar... and not 100% all-in. 

Hey! I never said I'd consider that relationship. I said let's just be friends.lol

He should be identical to Larkin, although Larkin is a couple years younger which would be nice. But I think Lindholm will still be effective at 36ish. He doesn't play a tolling game, is smart and a great skater. I think he'll age well.

[conundrumed]

14 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I think as a fan, the uncertainty has made this summer one of the hardest off-seasons I can remember. Honestly, the last season is pushing me further into apathy toward the team. I wonder how it is for others here. I can see that we've gotten a bit tired of theorizing over and over that we've turned to what hand we shoot, bat, or golf with. How about shooting pool!? 
 

but I think it's where some of us have gotten to. 
 

It gets tiring when the rumours we hear are basically rehashed for 2-3 months. 
 

you're right, those players did hold out last minute and determined that they had good chances with their current teams. 
 

problem with the Flames is that they're teetering on one end of the spectrum and the other, and his decision decides which way the Flames will totter...

My RH down the cue for finesse.lol Spent lots of time in snooker halls as a kid too! Have those ever disappeared:(

Older brothers again...saved from being beaten up in the pool hall because >18yos don't like losing to 14yos for 5 lousy bucks.

Everyone got to know that I have older brothers with lots of friends around.lol

Free protection, countless times.

Apathy can wait until we see the product! But it has been a nemesis.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Is Buffalo going to stay forever as a team almost built and hope that they can outscore their problems?  Maybe not a bad idea for them, but really they have an awesome base of players.  A solid G would put them in playoffs for sure.  

 

PTO's are good to fill up the requirements to have vets in the lineup.  I don't think you often see PTO's used to find a goalie though.  As far as trades, no it's not exactly a great time to trade.  Too many teams are trying out their prospects and seeing if they have a strong enough team to start the season.  More PTO's for F and D will be extended.  But, with that there are only so many teams with cap available to sign the PTO's.  Tatar is caught in the spot of being too good to sign for $1M, but being in there with the $1M players that score 20-30 points per year that are unsigned.  Most teams have their top 6.  

That's been my headscratcher with Boffalo for a couple of years now. Reminds me that BT always spent volumes on D but patchworked G in his early years. None of that made any sense to me. I think Levi is a really good goalie and should rip that spot, so maybe waiting will pay off for them. He's been a high compete-level goalie for awhile now, like Wolf, but the College circuit. We should likely get Wolf going similarly. Gotta keep challenging them.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

That's been my headscratcher with Boffalo for a couple of years now. Reminds me that BT always spent volumes on D but patchworked G in his early years. None of that made any sense to me. I think Levi is a really good goalie and should rip that spot, so maybe waiting will pay off for them. He's been a high compete-level goalie for awhile now, like Wolf, but the College circuit. We should likely get Wolf going similarly. Gotta keep challenging them.

 

Levi may be ready but I don't think he's had the same level of competition as Wolf has to date.

BUFF could do something about it instead of the BT type options.

I don't know if they can run Levi as a true backup, since he would need to be in front of rookies.

At least that's what I expect BUFF to trot out as much as possible.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Levi may be ready but I don't think he's had the same level of competition as Wolf has to date.

BUFF could do something about it instead of the BT type options.

I don't know if they can run Levi as a true backup, since he would need to be in front of rookies.

At least that's what I expect BUFF to trot out as much as possible.

I actually expect Levi to be their starter. He was their best goalie to finish last season. Decent enough numbers in a short, 7 game stint. There really is nothing in his way. He was easily NWU's MVP for 2 years. I'm sure FLA doesn't love having traded him with Knight's issues. Could be the one that they should have kept. He's always been solid.

[jjgallow]

New Jersey won big time with Akira Schmid.

 

They are set for the next 10 -15 years.

 

 

Buffalo and Calgary's goaltending situation, we need another year to know.     If one of our teams had both of those guys, then I'd give that team a good chance.

[conundrumed]

6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

New Jersey won big time with Akira Schmid.

 

They are set for the next 10 -15 years.

 

 

Buffalo and Calgary's goaltending situation, we need another year to know.     If one of our teams had both of those guys, then I'd give that team a good chance.

So far, so good with Schmid. That's quite a team in front of him. Next step is seeing how NHL teams scout him and if there is anything in particular to expose. He's ahead of Levi and Wolf in that regard with some playoffs under his belt, but this year will also be telling for him. He's still new to the league.

[jjgallow]

 

So

 

Here's kind of how i see this season playing out, for what it's worth.

 

Phase 1:  Honeymoon period.  Players will achieve "oh wow, it really was Sutter's fault after all"

 

Phase 2:  Total and complete collapse

 

Phase 3:  Trade deadline sweepstakes.

 

 

Hey man.   They can't be all unconditional positivity posts.   Although for me, I actually see this as light at the end of the tunnel. 

[travel_dude]

35 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

So

 

Here's kind of how i see this season playing out, for what it's worth.

 

Phase 1:  Honeymoon period.  Players will achieve "oh wow, it really was Sutter's fault after all"

 

Phase 2:  Total and complete collapse

 

Phase 3:  Trade deadline sweepstakes.

 

 

Hey man.   They can't be all unconditional positivity posts.   Although for me, I actually see this as light at the end of the tunnel. 

 

 

Come on man, be cheerful for one.  I don't think I have seen you positivr even in the years we were winning a divisiion.  I could be wrong but you seem like you could find a way to turn a jester into a depressed guy with a hat.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

So

 

Here's kind of how i see this season playing out, for what it's worth.

 

Phase 1:  Honeymoon period.  Players will achieve "oh wow, it really was Sutter's fault after all"

 

Phase 2:  Total and complete collapse

 

Phase 3:  Trade deadline sweepstakes.

 

 

Hey man.   They can't be all unconditional positivity posts.   Although for me, I actually see this as light at the end of the tunnel. 

Hmmm, a vet-laden team doesn't jibe with Phase 2. I can give you that the 1st 15-20 games are AHL-quality, but that's a league consistency. Good time to play pro-line (starting the gambling thing already). There will be goals and points leaders that will barely score the rest of the way. But unless it's due to catastrophic injuries, a veteran team is pretty unlikely to go into Phase 2.

But back to gambling, the start of the NHL year "upsets", find an NFL upset, tie or 2 to ride along...i don't support this message. Once I had a big win. My very first bass (Fender Jazz) and amp (Gallien-Kruger, I miss you) and an all-expenses paid weekend in Toronto to prowl the music stores cost me a $5 ticket that paid just over $1,800. I had another $400 on a $2 ticket later. So I was about 2-150 in the W-L column.

Hopefully the Flames aren't gambling.

[conundrumed]

You can hear a pin drop from all NHL teams rn. I think everyone is set on their camp, pretty much.

A lot of the talking points are still on the table.

Don't even think about turning Hanifin and Nylander trade talk into a drinking game, you'll be drunk until April...

edit

Oh, and are the Ducks signing RFAs Zegras and Drysdale? What's going on here?

[MP5029]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Hmmm, a vet-laden team doesn't jibe with Phase 2. I can give you that the 1st 15-20 games are AHL-quality, but that's a league consistency. Good time to play pro-line (starting the gambling thing already). There will be goals and points leaders that will barely score the rest of the way. But unless it's due to catastrophic injuries, a veteran team is pretty unlikely to go into Phase 2.

But back to gambling, the start of the NHL year "upsets", find an NFL upset, tie or 2 to ride along...i don't support this message. Once I had a big win. My very first bass (Fender Jazz) and amp (Gallien-Kruger, I miss you) and an all-expenses paid weekend in Toronto to prowl the music stores cost me a $5 ticket that paid just over $1,800. I had another $400 on a $2 ticket later. So I was about 2-150 in the W-L column.

Hopefully the Flames aren't gambling.

I’m not sure about that, we have had heavy vet teams in the past and did a phase 2 collapse…granted reasons are different usually, than a young up start team, collapsing under pressure and grinding of a full 85 game season….vet teams collapse because they get too comfortable with early or short term Success and don’t panic and push when they need to…look at last year they were all very cool and comfortable right down to the last day thinking they could make it, it’s a common issue with Vet teams we have seen this a few times too often in Cgy not just last year but every time they go into that we need vet players grab 

 

I think it’s gonna play out exactly like jj said 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, MP5029 said:

I think it’s gonna play out exactly like jj said 

Well there is solace in @jjgallow 's batting average being about 0.050. He's not exactly a Gold Glove fielder either. But he's good at keeping the clubhouse mortified, so we like him. It gives everyone else's criticisms the appearance of full support for the franchise.lol

[jjgallow]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

Come on man, be cheerful for one.  I don't think I have seen you positivr even in the years we were winning a divisiion.  I could be wrong but you seem like you could find a way to turn a jester into a depressed guy with a hat.

 

lol.  the cheerful part is that we haven't traded any of our picks away since Conroy took over, we haven't signed any death contracts, and we may have actually done some good drafting, at least in the higher rounds.

 

To me that translates to possible future playoff success.    Distant maybe.   But, I'll take that any day over regular season stuff.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Well there is solace in @jjgallow 's batting average being about 0.050. He's not exactly a Gold Glove fielder either. But he's good at keeping the clubhouse mortified, so we like him. It gives everyone else's criticisms the appearance of full support for the franchise.lol

 

Unfortunately, that's my batting average when I SUPPORT the Flames lol.

 

Ortio.  Francis.   

 

But I still think it's important to do that, especially for underdogs.    

 

I think you know deep down what my realism batting average actually is.    The Solace in it is that once you hit rock bottom, it's up from there.  And if the Flames do it right, it's as high up as they want.  As long as they have some patience to do it right.

[jjgallow]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Hmmm, a vet-laden team doesn't jibe with Phase 2. I can give you that the 1st 15-20 games are AHL-quality, but that's a league consistency. Good time to play pro-line (starting the gambling thing already). There will be goals and points leaders that will barely score the rest of the way. But unless it's due to catastrophic injuries, a veteran team is pretty unlikely to go into Phase 2.

But back to gambling, the start of the NHL year "upsets", find an NFL upset, tie or 2 to ride along...i don't support this message. Once I had a big win. My very first bass (Fender Jazz) and amp (Gallien-Kruger, I miss you) and an all-expenses paid weekend in Toronto to prowl the music stores cost me a $5 ticket that paid just over $1,800. I had another $400 on a $2 ticket later. So I was about 2-150 in the W-L column.

Hopefully the Flames aren't gambling.

 

the fact that we are vet laden is exactly my reasoning for Phase 2.   They're ok when their legs are fresh, and when they have something to prove.   Right now they need to prove that it was Sutter's fault and not theirs.  Standard honeymoon period after a new coach.

 

After that honeymoon period, we find out if Sutter was too hard or the players were too soft/old.

 

From what I see, it is almost always veteran teams that go into phase 2.    When the youth pipeline stops flowing, that's when you see it.    Things that could make me wrong, imho are things like Coronato/Honzek/Wolf having immediate and significant impacts.    It's possible but most likely they need another couple years for that.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Things that could make me wrong, imho are things like Coronato/Honzek/Wolf having immediate and significant impacts

From a hundred things, you list 1?lol

Markstrom plays lights out, Huberdeau back with authority, Huska pushing the right buttons. It's a pretty long list of things that could make you wrong. It usually is.lol

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

From a hundred things, you list 1?lol

Markstrom plays lights out, Huberdeau back with authority, Huska pushing the right buttons. It's a pretty long list of things that could make you wrong. It usually is.lol

 

I meant things that are possible.

 

the only one above that's possible is Huska, but that's just phase I.

[jjgallow]

That trademark @conundrumed    <LIKE and NO RESPONSE> combo lol.

 

Haven't seen it in a while.   

 

I'll try and think of something for the unconditional positivity thread.    I really am looking forward to seeing hockey get going again I just don't have that bar set that high right now, that's all.   At least in terms of playoffs.  For me, it's not that big of a negative as long as things improve from there.

[The_People1]

OTT 8-year x $8.05-mil extension for Jake Sanderson.

 

I think this is the way moving forward for small market teams.  No more bridge deals to keep the cap low.  No more Gaudreau and Tkachuk type prove-it-first contracts.  Just get max term and commitment and avoid all the mess the Flames did.  It's no fun going into the final year before UFA with your core players as a small market team.  

 

OTT has identified Sanderson as a core player they want to build around and that's all that matters.

 

 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

OTT 8-year x $8.05-mil extension for Jake Sanderson.

 

I think this is the way moving forward for small market teams.  No more bridge deals to keep the cap low.  No more Gaudreau and Tkachuk type prove-it-first contracts.  Just get max term and commitment and avoid all the mess the Flames did.  It's no fun going into the final year before UFA with your core players as a small market team.  

 

OTT has identified Sanderson as a core player they want to build around and that's all that matters.

 

 

Queue the Seider extension @ $9.5...

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Queue the Seider extension @ $9.5...

 

Is Detroit a small market team?

[sak22]

28 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Is Detroit a small market team?

Detroit isn't a small market, but what small markets do with RFA's will have an effect on the big markets as well.  How many others will seek the same pay off potential?  

 

Just my opinion that Ottawa didn't need to do this now, I don't see him having the type of sophomore year that is going to put him in Makar or Fox territory.  Don't get the urgency to do it now.