2023 Offseason

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Yet when we have traded a big name (Hamilton), it was a great return. Tkachuk was a great return but forced.

I really wish we would ramp it up a bit. Not just for the sake of making trades, but it would sure keep the roster honest as opposed to settled in.

 

If it's working, then why keep doing it?

 

Right?  Yet, BT struggles so badly in the UFA market but insists to build through UFA.  It's killed us.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Players I wouldn't move Lindholm, Dube, Andersson, Hanifin.

Again for various reasons.

 

I think we will hate the new cap hit on Hanifin.  He's not a top pair guy.  He's a super second pairing.  I like him but the price won't be worth it.

[bosn111]

Defence is a different question altogether for the Flames. They only have Weegar and Andersson signed beyond next season. They will be forced to make some decisions, but again I think it comes down to what happens with Sutter and / or Treliving.

 

Sutter stays on, look for the team to extend Zadorov, likely sign Stone again and possibly move to get another D first vet. I remember a quote from Sutter early in the season when asked about a defender scoring a goal and his response was along the lines of his job is to defend, not score.

 

If Sutter is gone, and Treliving stays, you likely see Hanifin re-upped for a bit more than optimal, long term, but not a major cap killer. He likely gets Weegar money +, so in the 6.5-7 x 7 range. I worry more about the next Tanev contract due to injury than Hanifin. It also depends on how they feel about guys like Kuznetsov and Poirier.

 

If both Sutter and Treliving go, I can see Hanifin getting traded, hopefully for significant return, and who gets brought in depends on the coach and GM.

 

 I just see too many questions around coach and GM to really consider what will happen player wise.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, bosn111 said:

Everyone knows that there needs to be big changes in Calgary for multiple reasons. The Flames cannot choose to stay put, it simply is not an option.

 

The Flames will stay put.  That's how the Flames roll.  Even if BT leaves, the organization will try to limit the impact by promoting either Conroy or Maloney for the sake of keeping the order in check.

 

Even if Lindholm doesn't want to sign long term, the Flames will try to trade Lindholm for another player either same age or older so that they stay in the conversation for the playoffs.  It's the wrong move in every aspect but the playoffs are important financially.

[travel_dude]

Some great perspectives in this thread.  I feel that Sutter will be the ruination of this team if he stays.  Not due to BT staying or leaving, just that he is only accepted by a few for the style we play.  Zaddy likes it here, but I don't think he bothers much with the head coach.  The forwards all (except Toffoli) seem frustrated.  The team is half built.  Most want to see changes, but I don't know what that means to them.  The GM can only do so much.  If Lindholm wants changes, some of it is coaching and some is having no finishers other than Toffoli.  

 

Backlund seems like it's time for him to go, regardless of Sutter.  We can't afford him + Lindholm + Kadri long term.  Make a decision on Mangiapane and Dube.  We have too many wingers.  If Dube can stick at C, and take on 3C, then fine.  Ideally, you have Ruzicka take one of the C's.

 

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

?-Kadri-?

?-Dube-Duehr

Pelletier-Ruzicka-Coronato

 

Weegar-Ras

Kylington-Tanev

Zadorov-?

 

That leaves us trades with Backlund, Coleman, Mangiapane, Hanifin.  

When I look at other teams I see players signing bargains.  Not here.

Freddie Gaudreau signed 5 x $2.1M.  The guy had 19g 19a this year.

That's what you pay for that level of production.

 

[robrob74]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Some great perspectives in this thread.  I feel that Sutter will be the ruination of this team if he stays.  Not due to BT staying or leaving, just that he is only accepted by a few for the style we play.  Zaddy likes it here, but I don't think he bothers much with the head coach.  The forwards all (except Toffoli) seem frustrated.  The team is half built.  Most want to see changes, but I don't know what that means to them.  The GM can only do so much.  If Lindholm wants changes, some of it is coaching and some is having no finishers other than Toffoli.  

 

Backlund seems like it's time for him to go, regardless of Sutter.  We can't afford him + Lindholm + Kadri long term.  Make a decision on Mangiapane and Dube.  We have too many wingers.  If Dube can stick at C, and take on 3C, then fine.  Ideally, you have Ruzicka take one of the C's.

 

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

?-Kadri-?

?-Dube-Duehr

Pelletier-Ruzicka-Coronato

 

Weegar-Ras

Kylington-Tanev

Zadorov-?

 

That leaves us trades with Backlund, Coleman, Mangiapane, Hanifin.  

When I look at other teams I see players signing bargains.  Not here.

Freddie Gaudreau signed 5 x $2.1M.  The guy had 19g 19a this year.

That's what you pay for that level of production.

 

yup! But we sign Coleman for that production. 

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Some great perspectives in this thread.  I feel that Sutter will be the ruination of this team if he stays.  Not due to BT staying or leaving, just that he is only accepted by a few for the style we play.  Zaddy likes it here, but I don't think he bothers much with the head coach.  The forwards all (except Toffoli) seem frustrated.  The team is half built.  Most want to see changes, but I don't know what that means to them.  The GM can only do so much.  If Lindholm wants changes, some of it is coaching and some is having no finishers other than Toffoli.  

 

Backlund seems like it's time for him to go, regardless of Sutter.  We can't afford him + Lindholm + Kadri long term.  Make a decision on Mangiapane and Dube.  We have too many wingers.  If Dube can stick at C, and take on 3C, then fine.  Ideally, you have Ruzicka take one of the C's.

 

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

?-Kadri-?

?-Dube-Duehr

Pelletier-Ruzicka-Coronato

 

Weegar-Ras

Kylington-Tanev

Zadorov-?

 

That leaves us trades with Backlund, Coleman, Mangiapane, Hanifin.  

When I look at other teams I see players signing bargains.  Not here.

Freddie Gaudreau signed 5 x $2.1M.  The guy had 19g 19a this year.

That's what you pay for that level of production.

 

Huberdeau said it was an adjustment and sounds like it is code for not being happy about playing RW for the months he did. Said he wasn't expecting to after playing his whole career on LW. 
 

Sutter trying to find connections. It was clear it wasn't working as long as he had him there. Why leave him there? 
 

said he finally felt ok playing with Backlund. It's kind of like Conroy and Iginla, Conroy was entering the twilight, similarly Backlund is a bit further along than Conroy was, but is reaching his twilight.
 

Not saying they're going to play on a line together next year, but we will have to find a match with Hube earlier than we did this year. 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Huberdeau said it was an adjustment and sounds like it is code for not being happy about playing RW for the months he did. Said he wasn't expecting to after playing his whole career on LW. 
 

Sutter trying to find connections. It was clear it wasn't working as long as he had him there. Why leave him there? 
 

said he finally felt ok playing with Backlund. It's kind of like Conroy and Iginla, Conroy was entering the twilight, similarly Backlund is a bit further along than Conroy was, but is reaching his twilight.
 

Not saying they're going to play on a line together next year, but we will have to find a match with Hube earlier than we did this year. 

 

Gee, he played on LW with Lindholm for something like the first 6 games.  Had 1 goal and 4 assists in 6 games.  But, hey lets's move you to another line.  Next 10 games, 2 goals and 2 assists.  Out for 3 in that span of 13 games.  Next 10 games 2 goals and 7 assists.  

 

It's hard to tell where the RW play started.  Likely early December.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Huberdeau said it was an adjustment and sounds like it is code for not being happy about playing RW for the months he did. Said he wasn't expecting to after playing his whole career on LW. 
 

Sutter trying to find connections. It was clear it wasn't working as long as he had him there. Why leave him there? 
 

said he finally felt ok playing with Backlund. It's kind of like Conroy and Iginla, Conroy was entering the twilight, similarly Backlund is a bit further along than Conroy was, but is reaching his twilight.
 

Not saying they're going to play on a line together next year, but we will have to find a match with Hube earlier than we did this year. 

 

Exactly what I've been saying for years.  Kids play their entire lives LW but at the highest level of hockey, is expected to just move over to RW and everything is fine?  No man.

 

Yes Tkachuk was able to pull it off.  I felt Dube looked decent on RW in the past.  But it's not for everyone.  It's best to draft and develop RHS RW because the best ones usually aren't easily attainable through trade and UFA.

 

It's nice to see that Coronato is "close" and nice to see Duehr become a full timer.  Toffoli sounds like he wants to finish his career in Calgary.  That's 3 RHS RW potentially for next season.  But who else?

 

Also, Sutter likes to have 2 RHS C and 2 LHS C.  When we first brought in Lewis, he was only supposed to play RW but we lacked a RHS C option so badly, Lewis plays C full time.  And now, Lewis should retire.  What does that leave us with?

 

Draft a Nate Danielson please.  Or Brayden Yager.  Add more RHS prospects to the pool.  I don't care if the LHS LW is BPA, they are the most easy to find in late stage rebuild.  The hard part is the RHS C, RW, and RD.  Lock up a good core of those first.

[robrob74]

51 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Exactly what I've been saying for years.  Kids play their entire lives LW but at the highest level of hockey, is expected to just move over to RW and everything is fine?  No man.

 

Yes Tkachuk was able to pull it off.  I felt Dube looked decent on RW in the past.  But it's not for everyone.  It's best to draft and develop RHS RW because the best ones usually aren't easily attainable through trade and UFA.

 

It's nice to see that Coronato is "close" and nice to see Duehr become a full timer.  Toffoli sounds like he wants to finish his career in Calgary.  That's 3 RHS RW potentially for next season.  But who else?

 

Also, Sutter likes to have 2 RHS C and 2 LHS C.  When we first brought in Lewis, he was only supposed to play RW but we lacked a RHS C option so badly, Lewis plays C full time.  And now, Lewis should retire.  What does that leave us with?

 

Draft a Nate Danielson please.  Or Brayden Yager.  Add more RHS prospects to the pool.  I don't care if the LHS LW is BPA, they are the most easy to find in late stage rebuild.  The hard part is the RHS C, RW, and RD.  Lock up a good core of those first.

i

agree

 

we need to think outside of the Box.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

i

agree

 

we need to think outside of the Box.

It would be nice if we could think in the current box.lol

The Rangers totally ruined Lafreniere-Chytil-Kakko, Fox, Miller.

Nashville is ruining Evangelista and Tomasino.

Van has completely ruined Petterson and Hughes.

Buffalo has ruined Cozens, Power, Quinn and Peterka.

Don't even get me started on NJ and Detroit.

The list goes on and on. Every team is ruining all of their prospects.

The Flames have called this on all of these dummies. You can't call prospects up too early because you'll ruin all of them. Now get those extensions in place on everyone 27+ because our prospects NEED at least 2-5yrs of seasoning, best case scenario.

Look at a guy like Phillips. He comes up here thinking he can be fast and creative. Punk. Here's 8 minutes Hash Rate, you think your good? Get the hell back down there.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It would be nice if we could think in the current box.lol

The Rangers totally ruined Lafreniere-Chytil-Kakko, Fox, Miller.

Nashville is ruining Evangelista and Tomasino.

Van has completely ruined Petterson and Hughes.

Buffalo has ruined Cozens, Power, Quinn and Peterka.

Don't even get me started on NJ and Detroit.

The list goes on and on. Every team is ruining all of their prospects.

The Flames have called this on all of these dummies. You can't call prospects up too early because you'll ruin all of them. Now get those extensions in place on everyone 27+ because our prospects NEED at least 2-5yrs of seasoning, best case scenario.

Look at a guy like Phillips. He comes up here thinking he can be fast and creative. Punk. Here's 8 minutes Hash Rate, you think your good? Get the hell back down there.

 

You didn't include your sarcasm imogi.  

 

So, with Sutter, there is zero chance that Phillips re-signs here.  He may not be a NHL player (yet), but some team is going to give him a fair shake.  AHL 2nd place scorer, just one back of a 32 year old career AHL player.  With Sutter, we wasted the up time of both Ruzicka and Pelletier.  Ruzicka may be the author of his own demise by not being the player Sutter wanted or playing every game like it was his last.  But he was close to a p/gp player until he got dropped down the lineup.  Pelletier made one mistake and paid the price the rest of the season.  Duehr was forced to make the 4th line good.  Had one shift with Kadri then got pushed down.  He was as close to what Sutter wanted from all our prospects, though.  

 

Coronato is going to have the same issues with Sutter.  Sutter will try to improve his defensive play, at the expense of offense.  He will play less minutes than most NHL player, assuming he even gets a shot.  If he doesn't have an exceptional camp, he is bound to be sent down.  Maybe that's right or maybe you have a NHL ready player that just needs the reps.  

 

Wolf.  Ah yes Wolf the best goalie not in the NHL.  If Sutter is here, how does he even manage the 3rd goalie when he barely managed Vladar.  Vladar was expected to be given more runway, but somehow MArkstrom was the only choice in the final 20 critical games.  Barely 500 in the easiest stretch in the schedule.  Did he look better?  Sure, but compared to what?

 

It's tough to make any change to this team with the current dynamics.  The coach is set in who or what he believes wins games.  The owners seem to put friendship over performance.  The GM has to make moves based on who could play in this system and getting value for players that played in this system.  And he has to take into account the owners that value life long Flames committment.  At the same time you have a coach PO'ing the top players.  

[phoenix66]

Well. I went an entire season without posting in here, or anywhere. The amount of uneducated vitriol criticism on blogs and all was too much to take.

Not sure if that applied to here, I didn't look.. but now that the season is over I can summarize with a straight head...

 

We didn't meet expectations, that's obvious.. but the reasons are not what the majority are pointing to...

Now I'll be the first to admit I expected it to gel a !ot quicker, but let's start with Hubie.. ripped out of the only team and system he's ever known. Forc d to learn a new system, feeling the effects of being way higher above sea level than he's ever played . As well his teammates having to learn him as well.. we started to see the chemistry late in the season but it was too late ..  he will be better next season..guaranteed ..I'm not one but worried ..

 

Same with weeger ..and to top it off he's a dman.. We've seen it time and time again, dmen take a season to assimilate. We saw it with Dougie, Haminic, hanifin... Every top pair guy we brought in.. we were seeing the real Weegar at the end ..again, too late to save the season.

 

"Sutter won't play the kids". Is a !oad of crap.. Duehr, Pelletier, both earned ro!es.. truth is Phillips was invisible when he came up..so he went back..

 

We all have short memories.. when Sutter came back, both Johnny and chucky finished horribly.. Sutter's first priority always is developing a style and chemistry.. consistency..moving players in and out of the lineup is counter productive to that..so he goes with consistency.

Losing him now would be a huge mistake.. consistency into next season is critical.

The player /coach stories are crap too..no ex player has ever had anything but praise for playing for him..the man we see at the podium is not the same who the players see in the dressing room..

And let's be serious... Replace him with who? Weve done the cheap route, the "next one"route .. and all were failures.. we finally pay for a real coach and people just want to whine ..

 

Now ..change will happen..it always does ..but I'd do my best to run as much back as possible . Regular spots for Duehr, Pelletier, Coronato,..sign Lucic to an appropriate 4th line contract.. keep Lewis ..sign Stecher 

 

One more year in the A for Wolf.. he may be ready but he needs to play like a starter ..not every couple weeks as a backup..  We've runined goa!ies by rushing them before .. one more year will only help him.. I wanna see him when he can compete for the starter net..not the backup job.

 

 

[tmac70]

18 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Well. I went an entire season without posting in here, or anywhere. The amount of uneducated vitriol criticism on blogs and all was too much to take.

Not sure if that applied to here, I didn't look.. but now that the season is over I can summarize with a straight head...

 

We didn't meet expectations, that's obvious.. but the reasons are not what the majority are pointing to...

Now I'll be the first to admit I expected it to gel a !ot quicker, but let's start with Hubie.. ripped out of the only team and system he's ever known. Forc d to learn a new system, feeling the effects of being way higher above sea level than he's ever played . As well his teammates having to learn him as well.. we started to see the chemistry late in the season but it was too late ..  he will be better next season..guaranteed ..I'm not one but worried ..

 

Same with weeger ..and to top it off he's a dman.. We've seen it time and time again, dmen take a season to assimilate. We saw it with Dougie, Haminic, hanifin... Every top pair guy we brought in.. we were seeing the real Weegar at the end ..again, too late to save the season.

 

"Sutter won't play the kids". Is a !oad of crap.. Duehr, Pelletier, both earned ro!es.. truth is Phillips was invisible when he came up..so he went back..

 

We all have short memories.. when Sutter came back, both Johnny and chucky finished horribly.. Sutter's first priority always is developing a style and chemistry.. consistency..moving players in and out of the lineup is counter productive to that..so he goes with consistency.

Losing him now would be a huge mistake.. consistency into next season is critical.

The player /coach stories are crap too..no ex player has ever had anything but praise for playing for him..the man we see at the podium is not the same who the players see in the dressing room..

And let's be serious... Replace him with who? Weve done the cheap route, the "next one"route .. and all were failures.. we finally pay for a real coach and people just want to whine ..

 

Now ..change will happen..it always does ..but I'd do my best to run as much back as possible . Regular spots for Duehr, Pelletier, Coronato,..sign Lucic to an appropriate 4th line contract.. keep Lewis ..sign Stecher 

 

One more year in the A for Wolf.. he may be ready but he needs to play like a starter ..not every couple weeks as a backup..  We've runined goa!ies by rushing them before .. one more year will only help him.. I wanna see him when he can compete for the starter net..not the backup job.

 

 

Agree with all of it but the Lucic and Lewis signing. I love Lucic I do, and I think it is an element that is going to need to be addressed with the intimidation factor ( some may disagree but it's a benefit). Lewis great foot soldier but we need to promote from the AHL. Guys like Bishop, Rooney, Schwindt, Ruzicka Hell even Zary, if he bulks up, are capable 4th line centers for now. Limited minutes sheltered. Rooney In AHL is a very good PK like very good. IMHO a 4th line of Pelts Ruzicka Dueher would be very successful or Schwindt, I have been impressed with Clark Bishop on the Wranglers as well. With the limited cap space, the GM needs to just tell Sutter we are not bringing guys in figure it out with players from the farm club. 

[pikey7883]

25 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Well. I went an entire season without posting in here, or anywhere. The amount of uneducated vitriol criticism on blogs and all was too much to take.

Not sure if that applied to here, I didn't look.. but now that the season is over I can summarize with a straight head...

 

We didn't meet expectations, that's obvious.. but the reasons are not what the majority are pointing to...

Now I'll be the first to admit I expected it to gel a !ot quicker, but let's start with Hubie.. ripped out of the only team and system he's ever known. Forc d to learn a new system, feeling the effects of being way higher above sea level than he's ever played . As well his teammates having to learn him as well.. we started to see the chemistry late in the season but it was too late ..  he will be better next season..guaranteed ..I'm not one but worried ..

 

Same with weeger ..and to top it off he's a dman.. We've seen it time and time again, dmen take a season to assimilate. We saw it with Dougie, Haminic, hanifin... Every top pair guy we brought in.. we were seeing the real Weegar at the end ..again, too late to save the season.

 

"Sutter won't play the kids". Is a !oad of crap.. Duehr, Pelletier, both earned ro!es.. truth is Phillips was invisible when he came up..so he went back..

 

We all have short memories.. when Sutter came back, both Johnny and chucky finished horribly.. Sutter's first priority always is developing a style and chemistry.. consistency..moving players in and out of the lineup is counter productive to that..so he goes with consistency.

Losing him now would be a huge mistake.. consistency into next season is critical.

The player /coach stories are crap too..no ex player has ever had anything but praise for playing for him..the man we see at the podium is not the same who the players see in the dressing room..

And let's be serious... Replace him with who? Weve done the cheap route, the "next one"route .. and all were failures.. we finally pay for a real coach and people just want to whine ..

 

Now ..change will happen..it always does ..but I'd do my best to run as much back as possible . Regular spots for Duehr, Pelletier, Coronato,..sign Lucic to an appropriate 4th line contract.. keep Lewis ..sign Stecher 

 

One more year in the A for Wolf.. he may be ready but he needs to play like a starter ..not every couple weeks as a backup..  We've runined goa!ies by rushing them before .. one more year will only help him.. I wanna see him when he can compete for the starter net..not the backup job.

 

 

Thank you for a breath of fresh air in here. Everyone’s frustrations and reservations on this team, the coach, the GM, and ownership may or may not be warranted. Difference of opinions is great for a debate, but lately it’s been the crap on the flames train falling off the back of the bandwagon. 
Anyways, I digress, lol.

I will have to respectfully disagree with some of your observations. Firstly Hubie and Weegar I agree 💯, they will be better next year.
As far as the kids go, I for one would live to see Pellts, Coronato, Ruzie, and Wolf all still in the AHL next year, not because they’re not ready, but because they’re part of our next core. And I want to see them further develop chemistry, comradely, and a winning mentality together. Next year there are a bunch of UFAs coming off the books or up for a new contract. And bringing those four in at a time where you can fully reinvent the roster is crucial. 
In line with that thinking, for me there is no sense bringing back a Looch or Lewis. It’s time to start to turn the page so we are in a good position to turn the chapter next year. I would look to sign guys that have the potential to be moved at the deadline next year for draft capital in 2024.

We might have another frustrating year this upcoming year, but let Sutter push for hard working defensive hockey to our long term guys, so the message and culture is past down next year to the next core of our team. Then it’s a teams leadership pulling that line rather than a coach.

[phoenix66]

1 minute ago, tmac70 said:

Agree with all of it but the Lucic and Lewis signing. I love Lucic I do, and I think it is an element that is going to need to be addressed with the intimidation factor ( some may disagree but it's a benefit). Lewis great foot soldier but we need to promote from the AHL. Guys like Bishop, Rooney, Schwindt, Ruzicka Hell even Zary, if he bulks up, are capable 4th line centers for now. Limited minutes sheltered. Rooney In AHL is a very good PK like very good. IMHO a 4th line of Pelts Ruzicka Dueher would be very successful or Schwindt, I have been impressed with Clark Bishop on the Wranglers as well. With the limited cap space, the GM needs to just tell Sutter we are not bringing guys in figure it out with players from the farm club. 

100% agree that if jobs can be taken they should be .. but you can't replace experience . Lucic is more than intimidation, he's leadership..  and I also if he wont play for $1m or less than cut him loose..  same with Lewis.. you need that "been there" leadership..but by all means expose the kids to it and let them Take the jobs..

 

I really hope the wranglers go on a run.. winning there is just as valuable . IIRC Moncton won a championship the year before we won the cup

[tmac70]

11 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

100% agree that if jobs can be taken they should be .. but you can't replace experience . Lucic is more than intimidation, he's leadership..  and I also if he wont play for $1m or less than cut him loose..  same with Lewis.. you need that "been there" leadership..but by all means expose the kids to it and let them Take the jobs..

 

I really hope the wranglers go on a run.. winning there is just as valuable . IIRC Moncton won a championship the year before we won the cup

For sure, but it comes down to what is the goal. The league has changed I am with the ones that are on the side of youth and energy. A line that I suggested could swing momentum faster than the current line of Lewis Lucic and Ritchie. What we saw was a HUGE upward trend with Duher. Pelts Ruzicka and Duehr as a 4th line is really a sheltered 3b line. Insert Coleman as a veteran to assist with guidance too. Hey the early review I saw with Bell ( its early) Bell Ruzika Duehr that's 3 skilled big boys with offensive talent and speed, on the surface its a huge check mark with Sutter. Next season, not IF guys play its a must or you lose them. I get the over-ripen thing but if you allow it to stay on the branch to long it will rot and fall off. The old dogs are great but can also not provide any energy when that was what we seen lacked the most at times a SPARK 

[phoenix66]

Just now, tmac70 said:

For sure, but it comes down to what is the goal. The league has changed I am with the ones that are on the side of youth and energy. A line that I suggested could swing momentum faster than the current line of Lewis Lucic and Ritchie. What we saw was a HUGE upward trend with Duher. Pelts Ruzicka and Duehr as a 4th line is really a sheltered 3b line. Insert Coleman as a veteran to assist with guidance too. Hey the early review I saw with Bell ( its early) Bell Ruzika Duehr that's 3 skilled big boys with offensive talent and speed, on the surface its a huge check mark with Sutter. Next season, not IF guys play its a must or you lose them. I get the over-ripen thing but if you allow it to stay on the branch to long it will rot and fall off. The old dogs are great but can also not provide any energy when that was what we seen lacked the most at times a SPARK 

We are mostly on the same page.. I am all for these guys playing. But they have to learn what is needed night in night out. Ruzicka has shown what he can do..but he got bumped when he got comfortable.. Lewis brings it every single night..example rubs off.. right now Lewis is the only 4th line weapon Sutter has to motivate these guys ..don't bring your game, Lewis takes your spot..   I'd love to see someone bump Lewis to the popcorn gallery but so far nobody has done it ..

 

People whine Phillips didn't get a shot..but what did Phillips do?  Pelletier first game had a dangerous shot in goal..a hit..a takeaway and a blocked shot.. he gave Sutter no choice but to give him more minutes ..that's what these kids need to do..but again.he slipped a bit..to be expected he's a kid ..but he learned , it cost him his ice time .

I'm not saying sign him to play hIm every night..I'm saying we need his leadership..truth is. Nobody took his job...  I'd !I've nothing more than to see it happen 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

We are mostly on the same page.. I am all for these guys playing. But they have to learn what is needed night in night out. Ruzicka has shown what he can do..but he got bumped when he got comfortable.. Lewis brings it every single night..example rubs off.. right now Lewis is the only 4th line weapon Sutter has to motivate these guys ..don't bring your game, Lewis takes your spot..   I'd love to see someone bump Lewis to the popcorn gallery but so far nobody has done it ..

 

People whine Phillips didn't get a shot..but what did Phillips do?  Pelletier first game had a dangerous shot in goal..a hit..a takeaway and a blocked shot.. he gave Sutter no choice but to give him more minutes ..that's what these kids need to do..but again.he slipped a bit..to be expected he's a kid ..but he learned , it cost him his ice time .

I'm not saying sign him to play hIm every night..I'm saying we need his leadership..truth is. Nobody took his job...  I'd !I've nothing more than to see it happen 

 

So, that would make you one of the "keep it the same" crew.  Ah yes, the Lucic domination on the ice, only when it comes to crunching someone and perhaps stealing the puck away.  Or the couldn't hit the broad side of the barn Lewis.  Yes, he brought intensity every game, but little else.  Let's re-sign both of them for 1-2M.  Essentially bring back the exact same team.  

 

I don't think it's called whining when you bring up a player, sit him for some time, then toss him into a couple of games at 8-9 minutes each game.  Strangely enough, he hit the post on one his his few shots (that obviously didn't count).  

 

If you are suggesting that the only player that slipped was Pelletier, you are not seeing the entire game.  Kadri, Huberdeau, Mange, Dube, Coleman, Lucic, Lewis all made equally low impact in games and stayed in.  Look at the game summary to see how many goals against Lucic was on for.  Or Mangiapane.  Or how many weak penalties Coleman was called for.  

 

Make little change to the roster, re-sign Lucic and Lewis, and also will need to trade about $3M in salary just to break even.  Actually closer to $5M.  But hey, that Jack Adams coach knows best.  Players that left after last year either bettered their season performance or went to an AHL level team and were back to mostly career average results.  Seems like it wasn't the coach that got the best out of them.  

[LouCifer]

7 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

One more year in the A for Wolf.. he may be ready but he needs to play like a starter ..not every couple weeks as a backup..  We've runined goa!ies by rushing them before .. one more year will only help him.. I wanna see him when he can compete for the starter net..not the backup job.

 

6 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I really hope the wranglers go on a run.. winning there is just as valuable . IIRC Moncton won a championship the year before we won the cup

I chose to focus on these 2 points specifically because I would be all for having the “next core” as you or someone else put it, develop that chemistry and comradely and a winning culture in the AHL for one more season, with the intention of them replacing many of our players with expiring NHL contracts after next season. If it’s played right, we can acquire some good assets for those on expiring contracts to help with the building of the next regime. 

 

Again, I would be all for letting next year’s NHL season play out according to chance and filling holes with temporary fixes, with the intentions of a “changing of the guard” the season after. 

[LouCifer]

So, run it back for 1 more year. Just get through it. Patch holes with only 1 year contracts. 

Hanifin - trade to the highest bidder. I don’t want his next contract. Should get a haul for him. Will we get more in the off-season or at the TDL? D prices typically get crazy at the TDL. 
 

Coleman - like the player, hate the contract. Trade him 

 

Bring back Rooney. He’s on contract for one more year anyway. 
 

Markstrom - after the season he had, his value is in the toilet. Only one way to go when you hit bottom. Let him play and attempt to raise his value next season. If Lindholm leaves, he may be open for a move too. 
 

Lindholm - let him play (with Hubie) and assess if he intends to leave. If so, trade him to the highest bidder. If he wants to stay, Backlund likely has to go

 

Backlund - give him the choice to chase a cup, or finish his career as a flame at a discount. 

 

Stone / Stecher - 1 year contracts. 
 

Kylington - Hopefully he returns. 

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Well. I went an entire season without posting in here, or anywhere. The amount of uneducated vitriol criticism on blogs and all was too much to take.

Not sure if that applied to here, I didn't look.. but now that the season is over I can summarize with a straight head...

 

We didn't meet expectations, that's obvious.. but the reasons are not what the majority are pointing to...

Now I'll be the first to admit I expected it to gel a !ot quicker, but let's start with Hubie.. ripped out of the only team and system he's ever known. Forc d to learn a new system, feeling the effects of being way higher above sea level than he's ever played . As well his teammates having to learn him as well.. we started to see the chemistry late in the season but it was too late ..  he will be better next season..guaranteed ..I'm not one but worried ..

 

Same with weeger ..and to top it off he's a dman.. We've seen it time and time again, dmen take a season to assimilate. We saw it with Dougie, Haminic, hanifin... Every top pair guy we brought in.. we were seeing the real Weegar at the end ..again, too late to save the season.

 

"Sutter won't play the kids". Is a !oad of crap.. Duehr, Pelletier, both earned ro!es.. truth is Phillips was invisible when he came up..so he went back..

 

We all have short memories.. when Sutter came back, both Johnny and chucky finished horribly.. Sutter's first priority always is developing a style and chemistry.. consistency..moving players in and out of the lineup is counter productive to that..so he goes with consistency.

Losing him now would be a huge mistake.. consistency into next season is critical.

The player /coach stories are crap too..no ex player has ever had anything but praise for playing for him..the man we see at the podium is not the same who the players see in the dressing room..

And let's be serious... Replace him with who? Weve done the cheap route, the "next one"route .. and all were failures.. we finally pay for a real coach and people just want to whine ..

 

Now ..change will happen..it always does ..but I'd do my best to run as much back as possible . Regular spots for Duehr, Pelletier, Coronato,..sign Lucic to an appropriate 4th line contract.. keep Lewis ..sign Stecher 

 

One more year in the A for Wolf.. he may be ready but he needs to play like a starter ..not every couple weeks as a backup..  We've runined goa!ies by rushing them before .. one more year will only help him.. I wanna see him when he can compete for the starter net..not the backup job.

 

 

 

Run it back for one year to what end though?  Can we legit compete for a Cup with this group?  

 

I think if we run it back, then we are a playoff team for sure.  Everything you said was bang on.  Huberdeau should be at least 75-points next season.  Weegar should be better.  Even Markstrom "should" be better and if he falls flat again, then Sutter shouldn't hesitate to start Wolf.  Our goaltending should be better.

 

Our young kids should also take another step.  Maybe Coronato wins Calder.

 

But in the end, why?  To go 2 rounds deep and then lose all our UFAs next summer and rebuild with zero?  Don't you think it's better long term to trade away our pending UFAs for 5 to 6 pieces to accelerate our rebuild instead of run it back just for a round or two of playoffs?

 

Welcome back by the way.

[phoenix66]

9 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Run it back for one year to what end though?  Can we legit compete for a Cup with this group?  

 

I think if we run it back, then we are a playoff team for sure.  Everything you said was bang on.  Huberdeau should be at least 75-points next season.  Weegar should be better.  Even Markstrom "should" be better and if he falls flat again, then Sutter shouldn't hesitate to start Wolf.  Our goaltending should be better.

 

Our young kids should also take another step.  Maybe Coronato wins Calder.

 

But in the end, why?  To go 2 rounds deep and then lose all our UFAs next summer and rebuild with zero?  Don't you think it's better long term to trade away our pending UFAs for 5 to 6 pieces to accelerate our rebuild instead of run it back just for a round or two of playoffs?

 

Welcome back by the way.

Change will happen no matter what..cap and free agency dictate that. My point is we overreact to too many things. A few seasons ago we majorly overachiever and thought we were close.  This year there is no dispute we underachiever. 17 extra time !osses... We get just 4 of those points and we are dancing right now. Even with the underachievers.  

If Backlund and Lindholm truly don't want to commit then move them(and personally I put no stock in end of year comments.. chucky and Johnny both said they wanted to stay)

Let the kids win jobs..make cap decisions.. my main point is upheaval in nearly every case means a lost season.. that includes changing coaches..gutting cores..

Sutter has proven over and over that when players buy in, we win.

People were losing their minds that Hubie was placed on rw.. well chucky was a lw playing rw too, and he had a career year..

I totally believe you can stay the course and change will take care of itself.. players with value will either choose to stay or moved for value. Cap will go up and accomodate. Kids will take the jobs of guys like Lewis and Ritchie ..

I do also believe BT or whoever the gm is will not get caught in a Johnny situation ever again..

And I go back to Sutter.. you don't have to dig much to find ex players bashing coaches like Keenan, Babcock,and a few other successful coaches... I can't find one who has done it to Sutter.. that speaks volumes to what his real relationship with his players is..not hearsay in the media .

 

So in basics.. let change happen, I don't believe we need to force it.. not unless you want young guns again..

 

And yes.. I do believe this is a cup contending group.. we just took too long to start becoming a team this year..

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Change will happen no matter what..cap and free agency dictate that. My point is we overreact to too many things. A few seasons ago we majorly overachiever and thought we were close.  This year there is no dispute we underachiever. 17 extra time !osses... We get just 4 of those points and we are dancing right now. Even with the underachievers.  

If Backlund and Lindholm truly don't want to commit then move them(and personally I put no stock in end of year comments.. chucky and Johnny both said they wanted to stay)

Let the kids win jobs..make cap decisions.. my main point is upheaval in nearly every case means a lost season.. that includes changing coaches..gutting cores..

Sutter has proven over and over that when players buy in, we win.

People were losing their minds that Hubie was placed on rw.. well chucky was a lw playing rw too, and he had a career year..

I totally believe you can stay the course and change will take care of itself.. players with value will either choose to stay or moved for value. Cap will go up and accomodate. Kids will take the jobs of guys like Lewis and Ritchie ..

I do also believe BT or whoever the gm is will not get caught in a Johnny situation ever again..

And I go back to Sutter.. you don't have to dig much to find ex players bashing coaches like Keenan, Babcock,and a few other successful coaches... I can't find one who has done it to Sutter.. that speaks volumes to what his real relationship with his players is..not hearsay in the media .

 

So in basics.. let change happen, I don't believe we need to force it.. not unless you want young guns again..

 

And yes.. I do believe this is a cup contending group.. we just took too long to start becoming a team this year..

 

Ah I see.  It's a bit confusing when you suggest to keep Sutter and let the players who want to leave, leave.  We're talking Lindholm and Backlund potentially.  Our two best Centers.  Also potentially Hanifin, our #1 LD.  These are franchise altering changes.  It's not going to be the same team then.

 

But regardless, I think that's actually what the team will do.  They will try their best to never do a Young Guns sequel.  They will try to put together a playoff team next season.  If the pending UFAs want to leave, the team will trade them for players in the same age or older to compete right away.

 

So all that's said, I disagree this is a legit Cup contending team.  You yourself said we overachieved two seasons ago and I agree.  I think we are only something in between two seasons ago and this season.  And that's only good for a round or two of playoffs.  If that's all you want, then sure.

 

Yet, last time we did Young Guns, we came 1-goal away from winning the Cup.  I have no hesitation going through 9-years of that again if that's what it takes (and if we sell our assets strategically this summer, we could add 6 young pieces to accelerate the rebuild so it would only take 4 or 5-years).  I'll take that over doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  Stuck in mediocrity in a never ending loop.

[The_People1]

52 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Change will happen no matter what..cap and free agency dictate that. My point is we overreact to too many things. A few seasons ago we majorly overachiever and thought we were close.  This year there is no dispute we underachiever. 17 extra time !osses... We get just 4 of those points and we are dancing right now. Even with the underachievers.  

If Backlund and Lindholm truly don't want to commit then move them(and personally I put no stock in end of year comments.. chucky and Johnny both said they wanted to stay)

Let the kids win jobs..make cap decisions.. my main point is upheaval in nearly every case means a lost season.. that includes changing coaches..gutting cores..

Sutter has proven over and over that when players buy in, we win.

People were losing their minds that Hubie was placed on rw.. well chucky was a lw playing rw too, and he had a career year..

I totally believe you can stay the course and change will take care of itself.. players with value will either choose to stay or moved for value. Cap will go up and accomodate. Kids will take the jobs of guys like Lewis and Ritchie ..

I do also believe BT or whoever the gm is will not get caught in a Johnny situation ever again..

And I go back to Sutter.. you don't have to dig much to find ex players bashing coaches like Keenan, Babcock,and a few other successful coaches... I can't find one who has done it to Sutter.. that speaks volumes to what his real relationship with his players is..not hearsay in the media .

 

So in basics.. let change happen, I don't believe we need to force it.. not unless you want young guns again..

 

And yes.. I do believe this is a cup contending group.. we just took too long to start becoming a team this year..

 

Also, I don't have a huge problem with Sutter.  I felt he won the Jack Adams and then over-coached this season.  Got too arrogant.  Same coach and same team, the results should be better next season.

 

However, if we are getting new faces again in key positions like top two Centers and #1 LD, then ouch, that's another lost year.