2023 Offseason

[travel_dude]

36 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

In the Sharks game, they called the Lucic-Lewis-Coleman like, the "Stanley Cup Line".

 

Wow, just wow.  So much winning experience translating into nothing for us.  Time has passed them by.  We would be so much better off without those three next season.

 

I think we have to do what we can to trade Coleman.

He only ever fit with Backlund, and ya know we might have to trade Backlund.

I can do without the payback penalties he takes and the goals he doesn't score.

If it was between Mangiapane and Coleman, Coleman goes.

 

I will puke if we re-sign either Lewis or Lucic.

Time for a vacay boys.

Enjoy your families.

[travel_dude]

Some interesting stuff from the player pressers, easier to just post the comments:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The_People1]

Lucic being asked about his future and stuff.  Mentions he's happy the weight of his contract is off his shoulders.  Hints he will explore all options this summer and see who is interested in signing him (reading between the lines, he probably wasn't approached by BT to return).  He basically says goodbye to Calgary and thanks the fans in a way that he never wanted to be in Calgary in the first place but it turned out better than he originally thought.  And also, the weight of his contract, he's relieved the pressure is off and fans won't be on his case anymore.

 

 

[travel_dude]

[travel_dude]

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

Some interesting stuff from the player pressers, easier to just post the comments:

 

 

Stetcher turned out better than I thought.  He played hard and brought speed to the third pair.  He's got a good ability to move the puck up ice.  While Sutter likes his third pair to be Gilbert and Gudbranson types, Stetcher was a breathe of fresh air.  A nice change up.

 

I feel Kylington is priority but if he's not coming back ever, then I'd be interested in bringing Stetcher back for the bottom pair.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Stetcher turned out better than I thought.  He played hard and brought speed to the third pair.  He's got a good ability to move the puck up ice.  While Sutter likes his third pair to be Gilbert and Gudbranson types, Stetcher was a breathe of fresh air.  A nice change up.

 

I feel Kylington is priority but if he's not coming back ever, then I'd be interested in bringing Stetcher back for the bottom pair.

 

I'm a little concerned about Lindholm and Backlund's comments.  I don't think we can wait to sign them during the year, after the summer is figured out.  Summer is when trades need to happen.  By the sounds of it, the only signed guy that likes the coaches is Toffoli.

[The_People1]

48 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm a little concerned about Lindholm and Backlund's comments.  I don't think we can wait to sign them during the year, after the summer is figured out.  Summer is when trades need to happen.  By the sounds of it, the only signed guy that likes the coaches is Toffoli.

 

Lindholm didn't show his cards.  Kind of hard to make anything of his comments.  It's not positive but also not negative... Unless anything not strictly positive is concerning.

 

Backlund was open and honest.  He wants to win a Cup.  So translation:. if we going young and rebuilding then he's not sticking around.  Which is fair.  If we want to win the Cup then we need to keep Backlund (imo, we need to stop dreaming with this group and rebuild.  And it starts with trading Lindholm and Backlund).

[robrob74]

59 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm a little concerned about Lindholm and Backlund's comments.  I don't think we can wait to sign them during the year, after the summer is figured out.  Summer is when trades need to happen.  By the sounds of it, the only signed guy that likes the coaches is Toffoli.

 

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Lindholm didn't show his cards.  Kind of hard to make anything of his comments.  It's not positive but also not negative... Unless anything not strictly positive is concerning.

 

Backlund was open and honest.  He wants to win a Cup.  So translation:. if we going young and rebuilding then he's not sticking around.  Which is fair.  If we want to win the Cup then we need to keep Backlund (imo, we need to stop dreaming with this group and rebuild.  And it starts with trading Lindholm and Backlund).

im with Travel on this one. Lindholm's comments read, trade him now. It's like saying, I have two girls I've been dating, within the next few weeks I gotta make a decision on one of them. Whichever one shows me they can take me all the way. It's a non-committal answer. 
 

These are your two best C's at the moment. Tough call. It's also in tone as well. 
 

Lindholm or Backlund mentioned that they only ever got to the 2nd round and that isn't enough. I want to say it was Backlund but the accents are so similar, I couldn't tell. But it's saying they're going to play out the year and if there isn't a chance to win it in Calgary, they'll walk. 

[The_People1]

24 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

im with Travel on this one. Lindholm's comments read, trade him now. It's like saying, I have two girls I've been dating, within the next few weeks I gotta make a decision on one of them. Whichever one shows me they can take me all the way. It's a non-committal answer. 
 

These are your two best C's at the moment. Tough call. It's also in tone as well. 
 

Lindholm or Backlund mentioned that they only ever got to the 2nd round and that isn't enough. I want to say it was Backlund but the accents are so similar, I couldn't tell. But it's saying they're going to play out the year and if there isn't a chance to win it in Calgary, they'll walk. 

 

The problem I see with Lindholm is that his contract needs to get done first because he's the most important piece.  Yet, they all want to watch and see how the summer goes. 

 

The Flames need to give Lindholm a deadline so there is an entire summer to make moves.  Don't let Lindholm drag this out until camp because other teams will already have their rosters set and no one doing trades.

[robrob74]

17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The problem I see with Lindholm is that his contract needs to get done first because he's the most important piece.  Yet, they all want to watch and see how the summer goes. 

 

The Flames need to give Lindholm a deadline so there is an entire summer to make moves.  Don't let Lindholm drag this out until camp because other teams will already have their rosters set and no one doing trades.

I agree! Plus, is BT even going to be here? 

[robrob74]

35 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The problem I see with Lindholm is that his contract needs to get done first because he's the most important piece.  Yet, they all want to watch and see how the summer goes. 

 

The Flames need to give Lindholm a deadline so there is an entire summer to make moves.  Don't let Lindholm drag this out until camp because other teams will already have their rosters set and no one doing trades.

i would give him a draft day deadline. You can't say the draft is the worst time. We made a big deal for Hamilton at the draft. He got his worth I'd think. The bruins didn't pick the right players though with the pick. 
 

 

another player, maybe Weegar, even said. A better building would help. So players aren't going to say they're unhappy with the building, but I heard one player call out the building. 

[cross16]

Lindholm cannot sign a contact extension until July 1, and technically speaking the flames can’t even approach him until then. Ineligible to do so until the new league year starts. 
 

I took Backlunds comments with a more pessimistic tone. I don’t think he liked what he sees here, didn’t like how the season panned out and is second guessing if this is where he wants to be. I’ll be a little surprised if he stays if I’m being honest. 
 

there was not a lot of optimism today. Pretty clear to me now the rumors of this team/coaching staff not seeing eye to eye are true and that the uncertainty about what this organization wants to do is weighing on them too. 
 

Murray Edwards and/or John Bean should really be speaking on this. The fact those two remain so silent in this organization only furthers the fan sentiment imo. 

[Thebrewcrew]

IMO the Flames have until the draft to decide which direction they wanna go.

 

You can trade Lindholm at the draft and likely get a haul.

 

Or you go into the season the same way they did with Johnny. I don't see him extending a year out. There's too much uncertainty. There's a lot of risk in letting Lindholm play out his final year. Worst case scenario, you get a bounce back season from the team, eliminating a TDL move and essentially walking him to UFA.

 

I'm less worried about Backlund. Would be a significant loss to the NHL lineup. But this is a 34yr old player. If you can get valuer for him, it needs to be considered. He's not gonna be a 55pt player again next year.

[The_People1]

30 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

i would give him a draft day deadline. You can't say the draft is the worst time. We made a big deal for Hamilton at the draft. He got his worth I'd think. The bruins didn't pick the right players though with the pick. 
 

 

another player, maybe Weegar, even said. A better building would help. So players aren't going to say they're unhappy with the building, but I heard one player call out the building. 

 

27 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Lindholm cannot sign a contact extension until July 1, and technically speaking the flames can’t even approach him until then. Ineligible to do so until the new league year starts. 
 

I took Backlunds comments with a more pessimistic tone. I don’t think he liked what he sees here, didn’t like how the season panned out and is second guessing if this is where he wants to be. I’ll be a little surprised if he stays if I’m being honest. 
 

there was not a lot of optimism today. Pretty clear to me now the rumors of this team/coaching staff not seeing eye to eye are true and that the uncertainty about what this organization wants to do is weighing on them too. 
 

Murray Edwards and/or John Bean should really be speaking on this. The fact those two remain so silent in this organization only furthers the fan sentiment imo. 

 

Ya the tricky thing is Lindholm can't sign until July 1st.  Yet, it would be so nice to trade him at the draft to maximize value.  He's the most important piece.  I wouldn't sign or trade anyone else until we figure out Lindholm.

[cross16]

Guess it depends on the definition of “haul” but I’m not as positive we’d like the return

 

I think Lindholm return would mirror the Bo Horvat trade. 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Guess it depends on the definition of “haul” but I’m not as positive we’d like the return

 

I think Lindholm return would mirror the Bo Horvat trade. 

 

Trues, depends what is meant by haul.  Lindholm would get us Horvat returns if we move him at the TDL.  I think moving him early summer gets us more because more teams would be involved to compete in a trade.  Regardless, a 1st round pick + mid+tier NHL player + prospect.  The earlier we trade Lindholm, the better the prospect.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

Lindholm cannot sign a contact extension until July 1, and technically speaking the flames can’t even approach him until then. Ineligible to do so until the new league year starts. 
 

I took Backlunds comments with a more pessimistic tone. I don’t think he liked what he sees here, didn’t like how the season panned out and is second guessing if this is where he wants to be. I’ll be a little surprised if he stays if I’m being honest. 
 

there was not a lot of optimism today. Pretty clear to me now the rumors of this team/coaching staff not seeing eye to eye are true and that the uncertainty about what this organization wants to do is weighing on them too. 
 

Murray Edwards and/or John Bean should really be speaking on this. The fact those two remain so silent in this organization only furthers the fan sentiment imo. 

 

I feel that way too about Backlund's comments.  If he was thinking of moving last year and is no more decided about staying this yea, then you need only look at the coach.  If what you suggested was true, Kadri was not the reason he wanted to go.  And at times you saw how uninspired he was out there, half efforts on shots etc.  

[robrob74]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

Lindholm cannot sign a contact extension until July 1, and technically speaking the flames can’t even approach him until then. Ineligible to do so until the new league year starts. 
 

I took Backlunds comments with a more pessimistic tone. I don’t think he liked what he sees here, didn’t like how the season panned out and is second guessing if this is where he wants to be. I’ll be a little surprised if he stays if I’m being honest. 
 

there was not a lot of optimism today. Pretty clear to me now the rumors of this team/coaching staff not seeing eye to eye are true and that the uncertainty about what this organization wants to do is weighing on them too. 
 

Murray Edwards and/or John Bean should really be speaking on this. The fact those two remain so silent in this organization only furthers the fan sentiment imo. 

But Tofolli said today that he had a conversation with BT today about it. 

[cross16]

40 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

But Tofolli said today that he had a conversation with BT today about it. 

“technically” speaking as in they can talk but are not supposed to get into any type of agreement. They can discuss interest/happiness/willingness to stay for sure. hard rule to strictly enforce. 
 

but for sure they can’t register a new contract until July. 

[The_Tribal Chief]

Honestly This Team needs someone that Can score that is what we lost with Johnny and the problem is we now dont got it and i dont know what you can do or Change to fix any of this at all...I Tend to not Blame Weegar And Huby Cause it was there first Year with a New Team Huby i Feel for the Guy Sutter putting him on the wing he is not use to playing on and that right there is enough to cause him to not play like he did in florida,,,,Im not as Scared when it comes to Conroy taking over possibly Bt Cause Conroy Has learnt From Bt for along time so he know how to Do this maybe a Green Horn but you will never know if he can Do this untill he is Given a chance The Flames Also Have don malony who has also been a gm so he may Be able to also Guide conroy in this if it is what Happens...

Just my 2 Cemts

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, cross16 said:

Guess it depends on the definition of “haul” but I’m not as positive we’d like the return

 

I think Lindholm return would mirror the Bo Horvat trade. 

I agree with that.

One thing I like about FLA is that they're married to no one. If there's one team in this league that understands trade dynamics, it's them. They've vollied good and bad trades yet always come out of it okay.

As a fan, I'd love that. We tend to hold onto everyone outside of bottom players to the bitter end.

Yet when we have traded a big name (Hamilton), it was a great return. Tkachuk was a great return but forced.

I really wish we would ramp it up a bit. Not just for the sake of making trades, but it would sure keep the roster honest as opposed to settled in.

*edit

One more year of Lindholm at a bargain would elevate the return over Horvat imo.

That's a good situation for a team to get a test run before putting an extension up.

I'm not so fond of moving him.

I'd rather move Backlund, Mangiapane, Toffoli, Tanev, Vladar for various reasons.

Players I wouldn't move Lindholm, Dube, Andersson, Hanifin.

Again for various reasons.

In a nutshell, get younger and faster, remove the dman you can't seem to win without (Tanev) and the guys that exhibit too much frustration (the rest).

Keep the guys trying their best but separate the 2 dmen as a pairing.

This season we had an, "on paper" roster that was indeed a paper roster.

A lot of teams are going to be better next year, we can't stay the same.

 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

So heres the thing........... if Sutter is let go, and everyone has to redo their end year pressers, does anyones comments/feelings change? No one outright says it but the players must see and feel the same things as the fans. Personally regardless of what moves are made during the off season I already have a half hearted expectation of the next season if DS is still at the helm.

[medatswhoP]

22 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

So heres the thing........... if Sutter is let go, and everyone has to redo their end year pressers, does anyones comments/feelings change? No one outright says it but the players must see and feel the same things as the fans. Personally regardless of what moves are made during the off season I already have a half hearted expectation of the next season if DS is still at the helm.

How I feel also, this teams needs new leadership and it starts at the top.

Backlund with his comments I feel he is ready to move on, and at 34 years we take the max we can get.

Lindy im worried also I think he loves the idea coming back but probably more so if the coach is changed, regardless of how Toffoli feels.

We need a healthy Tanev back, Lucic to go ride horses in the pasture as deserved with his long career in hockey and I would like to see Hanafin moved out.

Huby and Weegar are still question marks for me where/how they fit.

Lots of pieces to this puzzle.

We need a team Captain!

[bosn111]

Everyone knows that there needs to be big changes in Calgary for multiple reasons. The Flames cannot choose to stay put, it simply is not an option.

 

Unless there is a massive increase to the cap, which isn’t likely, the Flames do not have the cap space currently for next season to even carry a full team. Cap friendly shows the Flames having 1.25 million in cap space with 10 F, 6 D, 2 G, Kylington on IR, Coronato, and Rooney in the minors. This is considering a 1 million cap increase and includes Kylington’s salary. If Kylington doesn’t return, that gives Calgary an extra 2.5 million in cap space. Coronato in the minors adds close to 1 million extra. If he does return, they have 7 D, including Gilbert. 1.25 million cap space is not enough for 2 league minimum forwards to just ice a team, let alone have spares. At least 1 reasonable sized contract will need to be moved regardless. This cap space will need to fill out the roster AND fill the whole left by moving out the contract.

 

Which players are traded, signed, re-signed, etc. depends on what happens with coaching and GM. It is obvious that Treliving and Sutter are not on the same page. It is likely that Sutter was never Treliving’s choice and he was basically forced to extend Sutter after he got the Jack Adams last season. Comments about contract negotiations to extend Treliving seem to insinuate that if ownership continues to interfere in Treliving choices, he is not interested in returning. If owners allow him to release Sutter and choose his own coaches, that will work better with the team Treliving assembles, then he might come back.

 

Did Sutter create the atmosphere last season for Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Mangiapane and Kylington etc. to have career years, or did their play just make Sutter look good in spite of his decision making? I don’t know the answer, but with both Gaudreau and Tkachuk leaving, comments from Kadri and others, the non-commital comments from Backlund and Lindholm, you really need to wonder about Sutter. I am not going to say one way or other, I have no inside information, but the question is there.

 

So if Sutter stays, Treliving is not coming back (I would assume). Any new GM will make moves in the summer, likely reducing trade value and trying to get more Sutter types. If Sutter is out, there is no guarantee Treliving stays, especially if he feels ownership has interfered too much in the past and won’t change.

 

It is difficult to guess where the team goes for next year. 
 

If Sutter stays on, Treliving is gone. You likely see Kadri, Ruzicka, and one or both of Lindholm and Backlund leaving, with Lewis, Ritchie, Lucic and Stone being brought back on low cost, 1-2 year contracts. Next season would be slow, grinding, boring hockey with few to know young players getting time.

 

If owners stop interfering, Treliving comes back and makes his own choices, Sutter will be gone and I think Mangiapane might be the odd man out contract wise. His cap space is enough that Ruzicka, Pelletier, Duehr get ice time on cheap contracts. This is not a full rebuild, but allows for younger players to get a shot with veteran support, adds speed, skill and energy. There isn’t really cap space to make big splashes, so you go with what you have in the pipeline, finally.
 

If Kylington doesn’t look to be coming back, Stetcher would be a reasonable choice to bring back as he is a bit of a Kylington lite. 
 

I have no real belief that the off season will go in a specific direction. After the young guns debacle of the 90’s I don’t see the owners ever accepting a full rebuild using youth.
 

Ruzicka stuck this year (though mostly press box), Pelletier had some good looks, Duehr did well as a bottom 6 energy guy and secondary scoring. Retaining the likes of Huberdeau, Kadri and Toffoli would mean it is not a full rebuild, but slowly adding a couple of youngsters each season as veteran contracts expire would help the team stay competitive while preparing for the future.

 

So far for next season, even if chemistry is not there and minimal changes, lineup looks like

 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Toffoli 

Dube, Kadri, ??

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman 

Ruzicka, ??, ??

Without Sutter, re-signing Duehr and adding some youth, with only 1 trade (Mangiapane for picks), it could be:

 

Huberdeau, Lindholm, Toffoli 

Pelletier, Kadri, Coronato 

Dube, Backlund, Coleman 

Ruzicka, ??, Duehr

 

This gives a mix of vets, Backlund being the oldest at 35, and youth, without giving up too much of the experienced higher talent players. This would be similar to the Canucks playing the Sedin twins behind the West Coast Express for a few years until they were ready to take over the team.

 

From what I saw, I think Pelletier has the class, supportive energy and joy for the game to make a good captain in the future.  It is really team energy that was missing. There was no purple Gatorade, no fancy handshake and only on rare occasions were there real outbursts of exuberance from teammates when goals were scored (see Pelletier in his first few games and how Huberdeau was able to crack a smile finally).

 

Yes the team needs to play with some control to be consistent, but they also need to have fun, something I don’t think happens much under Sutter as a coach.

 

Just a few considerations, not really recommendations. Just thoughts on what the off season could see.