Chance to make playoffs? Draft lottery?

[Craig Viau]

If the flames can win the next 10 they have a 30% chance to make the playoffs we just need both Winnipeg and Nashville to lose 3 of their remaining games and that will give us the 6 points we need to pass them.

[travel_dude]

Well, there are opnly 10 left and we play WPG and NAS once each.

WPG and NAS play each other once.

 

If we get 10 wins, we have 99 points.

That means WPG could only get a maximum of 102 points.

NAS could get a max of 102.

 

I don't really like predicting, since too many variables.

[bosn111]

So it is now 16 of 18 points likely needed (to hit 95 points). Winning out would max out at 97 points.

 

The limited chances of getting into the playoffs are quickly disappearing.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, bosn111 said:

So it is now 16 of 18 points likely needed (to hit 95 points). Winning out would max out at 97 points.

 

The limited chances of getting into the playoffs are quickly disappearing.

 

Seeing how poorly WPG is playing and NAS struggle, you have to wonder.

For every loss we get, I want to see one win for each of the teams below us.

If Tanev is out against SJS, I don't hold much hope for a win.

 

[420since1974]

I don't expect the Flames to make the play-offs this season.

For the first time since they came to Calgary, I'm actually hoping they lose as many of the last 9 games as possible.

It's way too late to tank, but they can certainly improve their draft position.

[travel_dude]

6 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

I don't expect the Flames to make the play-offs this season.

For the first time since they came to Calgary, I'm actually hoping they lose as many of the last 9 games as possible.

It's way too late to tank, but they can certainly improve their draft position.

 

I find it difficult to stomach seeing them play a strong game against a tough team, only to see them wilt against a basement team.  Nothing has changed.  The big push to make the playoffs when it's was critical....We trade wins and losses like 500 hockey is a good thing.  Start Markstrom because you need him to get on a run, one he hasn't all year?  We started the month in a place within striking distance of a WC spot.  11 of 12 starts for Markstrom and we manage a 4-5-2 record.  OT is just another time to watch them fold.  One win in a shootout where the only goal actually scored was called back.  This is not the way a playoff team plays.  

[jjgallow]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I find it difficult to stomach seeing them play a strong game against a tough team, only to see them wilt against a basement team.  Nothing has changed.  The big push to make the playoffs when it's was critical....We trade wins and losses like 500 hockey is a good thing.  Start Markstrom because you need him to get on a run, one he hasn't all year?  We started the month in a place within striking distance of a WC spot.  11 of 12 starts for Markstrom and we manage a 4-5-2 record.  OT is just another time to watch them fold.  One win in a shootout where the only goal actually scored was called back.  This is not the way a playoff team plays.  

 

If there were ever  a topic that answered its own question with another question, it is this one.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

If there were ever  a topic that answered its own question with another question, it is this one.

 

How so?

[bosn111]

In all honesty, I made the thread because previous years we have had the magic number to clinch watch. This year, we were equally as likely to make the playoffs as do well in the draft lottery, so I was resigned to look at the 2 options realizing that neither was realistic and we would likely be disappointed regardless.

 

Not playing well enough to make a run at the playoffs, not bad enough to have a good shot at moving way up in the draft. The Flames have continued this trend and don’t look like that will change.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, bosn111 said:

In all honesty, I made the thread because previous years we have had the magic number to clinch watch. This year, we were equally as likely to make the playoffs as do well in the draft lottery, so I was resigned to look at the 2 options realizing that neither was realistic and we would likely be disappointed regardless.

 

Not playing well enough to make a run at the playoffs, not bad enough to have a good shot at moving way up in the draft. The Flames have continued this trend and don’t look like that will change.

 

It would seem that the coach feels that the only thing to do is try to win now.

No view to the future, maybe using top prospects and playing them in pressure situation.

Just keep going with the same losing formula.

The limited changes he makes don't really pay off.

Play Duehr for one shift with Kadri.

They score against us on the shift, so back to usual lines.

Stay with the same vets because they give you more of the same season results.

Go with the same goalie, since you need to get him going so he can feel better missing the playoffs.

 

I do think you see the players start to mail it in.

What are they playing for now?

To help the coach keep his job?

Do most of the guys coming back next year really want that same gameplan?

[tmac70]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It would seem that the coach feels that the only thing to do is try to win now.

No view to the future, maybe using top prospects and playing them in pressure situation.

Just keep going with the same losing formula.

The limited changes he makes don't really pay off.

Play Duehr for one shift with Kadri.

They score against us on the shift, so back to usual lines.

Stay with the same vets because they give you more of the same season results.

Go with the same goalie, since you need to get him going so he can feel better missing the playoffs.

 

I do think you see the players start to mail it in.

What are they playing for now?

To help the coach keep his job?

Do most of the guys coming back next year really want that same gameplan?

See this is the attitude that is beyond the realm of ridiculous. Let's take Kadri for example as he seems to be the one with the issue. Your paid S104,000 dollars a game for 15- 18 minutes, and when you make stupid mistakes that create a loss you get pissy cause you get called out or ice time is reduced. Public opinion on this is not going to favor an underachieving grossly over-paired whinner. With the turmoil, this franchise is in now this crap should have never been allowed to seep out of the room, PERIOD. As Sutter hate him BTC about his personality run his Hash Rate out of town, but this is not the roster we want moving forward. I want champion warriors players that will go through walls to win, not fold like a 3 dollar tent when they hit the slightest adversity or criticism.  This club would be far better off without them even if Sutter is not back. 

 

So My question is, if a player wishes to leave can he break the contract? There has to be a caveat or clause in the contract that can release each party, it simply should not just solely be on the franchise to absorb it. 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

See this is the attitude that is beyond the realm of ridiculous. Let's take Kadri for example as he seems to be the one with the issue. Your paid S104,000 dollars a game for 15- 18 minutes, and when you make stupid mistakes that create a loss you get pissy cause you get called out or ice time is reduced. Public opinion on this is not going to favor an underachieving grossly over-paired whinner. With the turmoil, this franchise is in now this crap should have never been allowed to seep out of the room, PERIOD. Like Sutter hate him BTC about his personality run his Hash Rate out of town, but this is not the I would want moving forward.  A bunch of pissy whiny players that can't nor won't step up to the challenge to be better. This club would be far better off without them even if Sutter is not back. 

 

So My question is, if a player wishes to leave can he break the contract? There has to be a caveat or clause in the contract that can release each party, it simply should not just solely be on the franchise to absorb it. 

 

Players are given roles.  Sutter defines that role, sometimes the player has input.  There's 20 players out there, not one guy that has a biad shift that creates the losses.  Public opinion seems to be that the coach is the problem or the goalies are the problem.  I haven't heard too many call out Kadri.  The coach is brilliant, he would prefer to take the loss just to sit a player he felt dogged a shift.  Even in OT, it's obvious that Sutter coach to not lose, not to win.  How many times times he start Tanev and Backlund in OT.  

 

Really.  The players step up and take responsibility.  Ever seen the coach say anything like he shouldn't have started so and so or made a bad decision on lines?  Neither have I.  I am really not sure if the coach defines the game prior to the start, but he does review the teams he's going to coach against.  If they are facing a goalie that's feeling it, one might think he would tell them not to shoot from every angle.  We need traffic in front, take the shots from the point.  Whatever.

 

The players are what fans come to see.  Not boring 2-1 hockey, especially losses.  The NHL is a fast game now, so you are only going to win so many at half speed.  

[jjgallow]

12 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

It would seem that the coach feels that the only thing to do is try to win now.

No view to the future, maybe using top prospects and playing them in pressure situation.

Just keep going with the same losing formula.

The limited changes he makes don't really pay off.

Play Duehr for one shift with Kadri.

They score against us on the shift, so back to usual lines.

Stay with the same vets because they give you more of the same season results.

Go with the same goalie, since you need to get him going so he can feel better missing the playoffs.

 

I do think you see the players start to mail it in.

What are they playing for now?

To help the coach keep his job?

Do most of the guys coming back next year really want that same gameplan?

 

I've been pretty vocal on here about how I feel about "win now" lol,

 

But

 

I do also think that players and the coach probably should have a "win now" attitude.   The long term plan imho should rest with the GM and higher.   BT supplied Darryl with the tools to make the poor decisions he is making now.

 

Quite honestly I do think that had we called Wolf up, as just one example, early in the season:   We might be an obvious playoff team right now.   Sure maybe Wolf would have been overwhelmed and send back down after a few games.   Maybe he wouldn't have been overwhelmed.     I've had concerns in the past on how Treliving created unnecessary roadblocks in his goaltender acquisitions which would make it hard for prospects to advance no matter how good they are.

 

It's just one example but we all know goaltending was a big factor this year so of course it's noticeable when a player like that is not even given a chance.   Am I mad at Sutter for it?  A little yes.    But I was also extremely displeased with both the Markstrom and Vladar acquisitions, especially the combination of them.  Clogging up the goaltender situation with two players that would never see a cup here.    I blame BT there more than I blame the coach.   The coach is at least sort of doing what they feel makes sense in the present, even if they are probably wrong.    The fact that the coach even has the option of making this poor decision, rests with the GM.

[tmac70]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Players are given roles.  Sutter defines that role, sometimes the player has input.  There's 20 players out there, not one guy that has a biad shift that creates the losses.  Public opinion seems to be that the coach is the problem or the goalies are the problem.  I haven't heard too many call out Kadri.  The coach is brilliant, he would prefer to take the loss just to sit a player he felt dogged a shift.  Even in OT, it's obvious that Sutter coach to not lose, not to win.  How many times times he start Tanev and Backlund in OT.  

 

Really.  The players step up and take responsibility.  Ever seen the coach say anything like he shouldn't have started so and so or made a bad decision on lines?  Neither have I.  I am really not sure if the coach defines the game prior to the start, but he does review the teams he's going to coach against.  If they are facing a goalie that's feeling it, one might think he would tell them not to shoot from every angle.  We need traffic in front, take the shots from the point.  Whatever.

 

The players are what fans come to see.  Not boring 2-1 hockey, especially losses.  The NHL is a fast game now, so you are only going to win so many at half speed.  

Strange last season the team played fast and dominated some games, the best line in hockey career years for many, win the conference, this year they are slow and boring ever wonder why? 

 

Tell me who is the all-star forward game-changer that brings you out of your seat on this club?

Who drags players into the battle and possibly gives us that big goal or step up when needed?

Who made the big save when we needed it this year?

Who pushes the d back on a rush?

 

Take the comments that Sutter made about Hubie and Pelts out, From the other comments what is wrong with what he has said that is inaccurate:

We don't have an elite player, We need to play a full game by committee to win, Our best players have to be our best players, Need a timely save, our Veterans need to step up, and we need someone to score a timely goal, Need to capitalize on the power play, need to play 60 minutes....... Really is he wrong with those comments? 

 

If anyone thinks that a different coach would come in under these circumstances with this roster, we would be fighting for last in the league guaranteed. You're in a battle of 1 goal games because of the roster construction, not the coaching or systems. My god it's not hard to comprehend with just average goaltending we are in a different spot. 

 

 

[redfire11]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

If anyone thinks that a different coach would come in under these circumstances with this roster, we would be fighting for last in the league guaranteed. You're in a battle of 1 goal games because of the roster construction, not the coaching or systems. My god it's not hard to comprehend with just average goaltending we are in a different spot. 

Next season lets say we shed our UFA's and only promote from our farm; do you think Sutter and Sutter's game style is the way forward? 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Strange last season the team played fast and dominated some games, the best line in hockey career years for many, win the conference, this year they are slow and boring ever wonder why? 

 

Tell me who is the all-star forward game-changer that brings you out of your seat on this club?

Who drags players into the battle and possibly gives us that big goal or step up when needed?

Who made the big save when we needed it this year?

Who pushes the d back on a rush?

 

Take the comments that Sutter made about Hubie and Pelts out, From the other comments what is wrong with what he has said that is inaccurate:

We don't have an elite player, We need to play a full game by committee to win, Our best players have to be our best players, Need a timely save, our Veterans need to step up, and we need someone to score a timely goal, Need to capitalize on the power play, need to play 60 minutes....... Really is he wrong with those comments? 

 

If anyone thinks that a different coach would come in under these circumstances with this roster, we would be fighting for last in the league guaranteed. You're in a battle of 1 goal games because of the roster construction, not the coaching or systems. My god it's not hard to comprehend with just average goaltending we are in a different spot. 

 

 

 

I think when the coach takes the responsibility, it insulates the players.  It's not his fault always and sometimes not at all, but it shows character.  But, the point is it's never his fault is it.  Maybe just maybe, if he makes other decisions, we have a different result.  You are being foolish if you think no other coach gets this much out of the players.  It's not an absolute either way.  Most coaches see when the goalie is fighting it and make the change while there is time.  Most coaches recognize that a player plays better on the strong side.  The comment that it doesn't matter which side you play is stupid.  If that's the case, why not play Lucic or Pelletier on RW?  Nop, took him 40 something games to figure it out.  Started on LW but got moved to RW.  Then finally back to LW.  

 

Gopaltending has been a problem all year, except for stretches.  Vladar's run of 12 games.  Markstrom when he was letting in 2 or less, yet we weren't scoring.  That's more than a few games.  

 

8 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Next season lets say we shed our UFA's and only promote from our farm; do you think Sutter and Sutter's game style is the way forward? 

 

He appears to not be the right coach right now.  I don't see how a few prospects make a difference.  He's shown what he thinks of them.  The 4th line has to grind and hit.  Need size.  Have to play whatever role is defined.

[tmac70]

20 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Next season lets say we shed our UFA's and only promote from our farm; do you think Sutter and Sutter's game style is the way forward? 

Yes because the same system is being used with the Wranglers. AHL affiliates teams play the same systems as their bigger clubs. Colorado AHL team same as the AVs, and Henderson plays like Vegas. This way there is an adaptation is quicker and more seamless to the NHL for callups. I watch or try to watch all the Wrangler games. They play the same style same system as the Flames. They are top of the league because of two things, timely goals, and key saves, same system different results.  Duehr looks fine as did Pelts, and Gibby they seem to be fine when they arrive. Its called buy-in, and these players don't buy in. 

[tmac70]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think when the coach takes the responsibility, it insulates the players.  It's not his fault always and sometimes not at all, but it shows character.  But, the point is it's never his fault is it.  Maybe just maybe, if he makes other decisions, we have a different result.  You are being foolish if you think no other coach gets this much out of the players.  It's not an absolute either way.  Most coaches see when the goalie is fighting it and make the change while there is time.  Most coaches recognize that a player plays better on the strong side.  The comment that it doesn't matter which side you play is stupid.  If that's the case, why not play Lucic or Pelletier on RW?  Nop, took him 40 something games to figure it out.  Started on LW but got moved to RW.  Then finally back to LW.  

 

Gopaltending has been a problem all year, except for stretches.  Vladar's run of 12 games.  Markstrom when he was letting in 2 or less, yet we weren't scoring.  That's more than a few games.  

 

 

He appears to not be the right coach right now.  I don't see how a few prospects make a difference.  He's shown what he thinks of them.  The 4th line has to grind and hit.  Need size.  Have to play whatever role is defined.

He can't play the games for them, he can only ice the team he has. You can move the chairs around as he has but has it changed the outcome? Hey, I can't wait for the season to end to remove Luicic but really last two games their line has been the best because of Duehr.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, tmac70 said:

He can't play the games for them, he can only ice the team he has. You can move the chairs around as he has but has it changed the outcome? Hey, I can't wait for the season to end to remove Luicic but really last two games their line has been the best because of Duehr.

 

...best because of Duehr.  That says something, like why is one of the best player on the ice in games relegated to the 4th line?  Meanwhile, Kadri gets Ritchie.  Or Huberdeau gets non-finishers like Coleman and Backlund.  It's one thing to move around deck chairs, totally another to keep the newer ones in the wrapper and use the ones missing a leg or the seat cushion torn.  One chair is too small, since only 6'4" people sit in them.  

 

Dumb analogy on my part, but I'm just suggesting that you see moments of bliallance when you have some guys together.  We just don't see them there for long.  Best passer and top scorers not playing together suggests something missing in line evaluation.  Overuse of the 4th line when it;s really just one player that is moving the pace.  Lucic sits for a game or two.  When he comes back we win one lose one.  He must be the reason for the win and not the reason for the losses.  (sarcasm)  

 

This isn't a winning formula for a NHL team.  The game has changed too much to play at a slow speed.  A 4th line these days does not include slow players.  It's normally an energy line.  

[bosn111]

Playoff hopes stay alive while high draft hopes slip away. 12 points in 7 games to hit 95. There are 6 teams guaranteed to finish lower than the Flames, all of whom are officially out of the playoffs.

 

Nashville and Winnipeg have tougher schedules remaining (at least on paper as they each play the Flames once, each other, Minnesota, Colorado and either Detroit, Jersey or Vegas, Dallas, Carolina and Pittsburg. Flames only have Winnipeg and Nashville who are in the hunt for playoffs remaining. Those head to heads may be the difference makers.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

11 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

Playoff hopes stay alive while high draft hopes slip away. 12 points in 7 games to hit 95. There are 6 teams guaranteed to finish lower than the Flames, all of whom are officially out of the playoffs.

 

Nashville and Winnipeg have tougher schedules remaining (at least on paper as they each play the Flames once, each other, Minnesota, Colorado and either Detroit, Jersey or Vegas, Dallas, Carolina and Pittsburg. Flames only have Winnipeg and Nashville who are in the hunt for playoffs remaining. Those head to heads may be the difference makers.

Lets not forget seattle is only 5 pts up albeit 2 games at hand. A relatively light schedule apart from the final 2 against Vegas, the Yotes may give them a bit of a fight as may the Nucks. Only a 6 pt difference so any kind of small losing streak for any of the Kraks, Jets, Flames, or Preds could be the final nail.

 

I was on the fence with the lotto vs playoff scenario but as again a mid to late teens pick is likely anyway may as well try to push your way into the dance and see what happens.

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, bosn111 said:

Playoff hopes stay alive while high draft hopes slip away. 12 points in 7 games to hit 95. There are 6 teams guaranteed to finish lower than the Flames, all of whom are officially out of the playoffs.

 

Nashville and Winnipeg have tougher schedules remaining (at least on paper as they each play the Flames once, each other, Minnesota, Colorado and either Detroit, Jersey or Vegas, Dallas, Carolina and Pittsburg. Flames only have Winnipeg and Nashville who are in the hunt for playoffs remaining. Those head to heads may be the difference makers.

 

This is our 2nd two game win streak this month.  Our next spoiler is VAN, but they will fight for a spot until they are eliminated, then just be a spoil sport.  Markstrom has not fared well against them in the past.

 

I'm not convinced that we can take 12 of 14 points in the games remaining.  And to me, it's all or nothing.  Markstrom has been the reason for our wins (all but 1 this month) and the reason for our losses.  A dominant win is followed by a multi-goal against game.  Playing in VAN is not a great place to try to get the 3rd in a row.  If we lose to VAN, we might as well pack it up.  

 

WPG is weird, where they had Vezna goaltending all season until this month.  They look like a broken team.  No idea if they can get back to winning.  NAS is a tougher call.  They are winning despite trading away players.  Josi was out for the most recent run, yet they manage to get points.  They will be facing some tough teams, but their last 2 games are against Minny and COL, who are likely to be sitting players.

[robrob74]

I can see us winning 4 more games. All games are winnable, but the jets might be hard on a back to back. But will need to down Chicago early the night before. 
 

Van is a rival and have had trouble with petterson in the past so, can see there. 
 

i still think we have a decent chance to get in. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I can see us winning 4 more games. All games are winnable, but the jets might be hard on a back to back. But will need to down Chicago early the night before. 
 

Van is a rival and have had trouble with petterson in the past so, can see there. 
 

i still think we have a decent chance to get in. 

 

If we only win 4, I think we are done.  91 points.

93 is a long shot to get in.

Even 95 is not guaranteed.

 

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If we only win 4, I think we are done.  91 points.

93 is a long shot to get in.

Even 95 is not guaranteed.

 

I see 93 points as the cutoff this year. The way the teams are playing they really are their .500+ numbers.
 

Winnipeg might be one that will play sun that number so that's where it is at. 
 

I think the Flames will need 94 points. It is possible. 
 

the wildcard will be the Preds.