Flames 22/23 Lineup

[pikey7883]

If we were able to inject some youth into the lineup, I think it would help. The team is lacking some of that energy and jump a young guy brings when they’re called up.

Lines that I think could work:

1. Leave Mang - Kadri - Dube together, not because they’ve been working but because it allows the most balance with the other lines. 

***Caveat*** the longer this season goes on, the more I see Dube as the odd man out, Mang and Kadri need a big power winger to compliment them. 
2. Hubie - Ruzie - Toffee (let them play together for a while and develop chemistry, Ruzie has shown he can play up in the lineup.

3. Pelltier - Lindholm - Coleman (defensively responsible line to help transition pelltier to the nhl. I want to see if Pelltier can be a playmaker with Lindy, similar (not same) to Gaudreau.

4. Phillips - Backs - Ritchie (backs is our guy to bring in young guys, Ritchie brings the size and skating ability to help mix it up with Phillips)

 

and no I am not ranking them in order of first to fourth lines, just a way I can see bringing young guys in.

[Thebrewcrew]

Makes sense. No need to carry 8 D with the team returning home. Gives the Flames a 22 player roster. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, redfire11 said:

I would actually try him in lucic's place.

I would like to see both Pelletier and Phillips come up and play together. Leave Ritchie or worst case Lewis/Lucic to police the line.

 

Do we need 3 RHS on the same line?

The bigger issue I have us that Phillips should not ever be considered as a grinder.

That's what the 4th line does.

I don't think it helps us much except sometimes in close games, they wear down the other team.

It is our identity, but we also lose scoring because of it.

Phillips would not benefit from having to play a grind game.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Makes sense. No need to carry 8 D with the team returning home. Gives the Flames a 22 player roster. 

 

 

 

That is the logical reason.

Maybe Kylington is getting ready to come back; doubt it.

I think they have a bigger need for an extra F.

Rooney is not the only player in need of sitting a game or two.

[cross16]

Things may not be as bad as they seem

 

 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

Things may not be as bad as they seem

 

 

 

One bad goal against per game is hurting us.  And we need Huberdeau to get going.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

Things may not be as bad as they seem

 

 

 

The annoying things is that we struggle to get back when we get down a goal.

Early results were good, but have fallen off.

Scoring first, we went 6-4-2, but recently started losing those games.

The other team scoring first, we went 3-5-1.

 

The annoying part for me is when we tie it up, only to go down a goal after that.

There still seems to be some structural problems with the lines.

 

Top line with Ruzicka.

When they score, we tend to win.

It's our top line, so they need to be better as a group and be more dominant both ends.

Lindholm's sniping is off a little; he's getting the looks just off a bit.

 

Kadri line.

Ugg.  Not doing enough for a 2nd scoring line.

Gets bottled up a lot in the D-zone.

Exit passes off the mark, and I can count at least 3 goals against from really bad passes exiting the zone.

 

Hubie line.

Strong defensive line, not getting enough production using our top player.

 

4th line.

Not really bad as a group.

Lucic on for 5 for and 11 against.  Not good.

Lewis not really good on the PK that I can see.

 

I know it's more than the F group, but they aren't helping as much as they could.

We see strong games from them in the O-zone, but not finishing.

[cross16]

Huberdeau is a big part of it but it also goes deeper than that. 

Mangiapane has really struggled (although some data/evidence to suggest a breakout is coming)

While Kadri was great early, he's been fighting it I think the last few weeks. Not cheating them on effort but he doesn't look as comfortable. 

Flames D is not as active as it was last season so your are not getting the rush chances/2nd wave like they did last year

 

As team they are actually playing at a relatively high level. Their goaltending and their top end talent just are not clicking right now. When you have that happen and you have one of the hardest schedules in the league thus far, these results are not as bad as they seem. 

[cross16]

And if you are looking for a good news story on Huberdeau here is it.

 

At 5 on 5 he's back to his Florida level of chance production. Looking at his average over 4 season (2017-2021 - I'm excluding last year because of system variations).

 

Average of 2.53 Expected goals for/60. He's at 2.65 this year

Avg 27.07 Scoring chances for. He's at 27.75 this year

10.21 High danger chance for. He's at 10.85. 

 

All with better defensive metrics then he ever had in Florida. 

 

Be a good time to put him back with Lindholm and players who can put the puck in the net. 

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Huberdeau is a big part of it but it also goes deeper than that. 

Mangiapane has really struggled (although some data/evidence to suggest a breakout is coming)

While Kadri was great early, he's been fighting it I think the last few weeks. Not cheating them on effort but he doesn't look as comfortable. 

Flames D is not as active as it was last season so your are not getting the rush chances/2nd wave like they did last year

 

As team they are actually playing at a relatively high level. Their goaltending and their top end talent just are not clicking right now. When you have that happen and you have one of the hardest schedules in the league thus far, these results are not as bad as they seem. 

 

Yes to what you are saying here.

Not meaning to take away from it, as you have pointed out where we stand.

I'm just drilling down to the individuals or lines that seem to be part of the root cause.

One might expect a bit of a dropoff from Mangiapane this season. 

30+ goals on a line with Backlund to a line with Dube and Kadri.

Part of that may be zone entries and diligence on the puck.

Backlund and Coleman are dogs on the puck.

Huberdeau may be good there, but I think it takes away from his offence when he is used to 30 goal scorers.

 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Be a good time to put him back with Lindholm and players who can put the puck in the net. 

 

It might also be a time to shift the LW down a smidge.

 

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Ruzicka-Kadri-Dube

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

...

 

I really like that 3rd line last year, and maybe it's Mange struggling or maybe not fitting where he is.

Huberdeau back to where he started, maybe he gets them going a bit.

Ruzicka is playing a bit better without the puck, but also seems to be making some good passes.

Would like to see that line on a rush, assuming they can gain the zone.

[travel_dude]

Some alternate lines today.

Not sure I like Mange on RW.

 

#Flames lines and pairings at Monday practice:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Dube-Kadri-Mangiapane

Ruzicka-Backlund-Coleman

Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie

Rooney  

 

Hanifin-Andersson

Weegar-Tanev

Zadorov-Stone

Mackey

 

Markstrom

Vladar

[The_People1]

31 minutes ago, cross16 said:

And if you are looking for a good news story on Huberdeau here is it.

 

At 5 on 5 he's back to his Florida level of chance production. Looking at his average over 4 season (2017-2021 - I'm excluding last year because of system variations).

 

Average of 2.53 Expected goals for/60. He's at 2.65 this year

Avg 27.07 Scoring chances for. He's at 27.75 this year

10.21 High danger chance for. He's at 10.85. 

 

All with better defensive metrics then he ever had in Florida. 

 

Be a good time to put him back with Lindholm and players who can put the puck in the net. 

 

Hmm Huberdeau playing great again after playing with Backlund, so let's go back to Lindholm where he wasn't great.  I mean, I hope it works the second time around.

[The_People1]

55 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Huberdeau is a big part of it but it also goes deeper than that. 

Mangiapane has really struggled (although some data/evidence to suggest a breakout is coming)

While Kadri was great early, he's been fighting it I think the last few weeks. Not cheating them on effort but he doesn't look as comfortable. 

Flames D is not as active as it was last season so your are not getting the rush chances/2nd wave like they did last year

 

As team they are actually playing at a relatively high level. Their goaltending and their top end talent just are not clicking right now. When you have that happen and you have one of the hardest schedules in the league thus far, these results are not as bad as they seem. 

 

Well luckily, Ruzicka is the new Mangiapane.  We should ride the hot hand as opposed to have a short leash.  Anyways.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Huberdeau is a big part of it but it also goes deeper than that. 

Mangiapane has really struggled (although some data/evidence to suggest a breakout is coming)

While Kadri was great early, he's been fighting it I think the last few weeks. Not cheating them on effort but he doesn't look as comfortable. 

Flames D is not as active as it was last season so your are not getting the rush chances/2nd wave like they did last year

 

As team they are actually playing at a relatively high level. Their goaltending and their top end talent just are not clicking right now. When you have that happen and you have one of the hardest schedules in the league thus far, these results are not as bad as they seem. 

I think the defence having to play too many minutes especially with Stone is why they weren’t jumping up in the play much. Hopefully with Stone back we see a bit more push from the defence.

[JTech780]

35 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Some alternate lines today.

Not sure I like Mange on RW.

 

#Flames lines and pairings at Monday practice:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Dube-Kadri-Mangiapane

Ruzicka-Backlund-Coleman

Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie

Rooney  

 

Hanifin-Andersson

Weegar-Tanev

Zadorov-Stone

Mackey

 

Markstrom

Vladar

It just doesn’t seem like Huberdeau is comfortable passing to a RHS center, it’s just a different look. I would go:

 

Huberdeau-Kadri-Toffoli

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Mangipane 

Dube-Backlund-Coleman 

Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie

[cross16]

48 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Hmm Huberdeau playing great again after playing with Backlund, so let's go back to Lindholm where he wasn't great.  I mean, I hope it works the second time around.

 

This comes down to expectations. I certainly woudln't argue they've been "great" they've been pretty good so are we ok with pretty good? Can Backlund/Coleman put the puck in the net enough to justify having Huberdeau there?

 

The way the Flames are built i'm just not sure they can afford to have 3 good lines and not having a great one in there somewhere. 

 

 

[robrob74]

I might go:

 

Huberdeau, Kadri, Toffoli
Ruzicka, Lindholm, Dube

Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman

Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie

 

i honestly don't like Toffoli. He is a take a few strides guy and shoot it. There isn't enough flow to his game which might make play die often. He will get points because volume shots.

 

I want to see him and the team be more patient with when they shoot. I don't mean look for the perfect pass, but I mean wait until there are more bodies in the zone, shoot for more chances and more shots. I love the pretty play, but I still find too often the team doesn't shoot for more opportunity through rebounds, some dirtier goals, goals by tips and more...

 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

I want to see him and the team be more patient with when they shoot. I don't mean look for the perfect pass, but I mean wait until there are more bodies in the zone, shoot for more chances and more shots. I love the pretty play, but I still find too often the team doesn't shoot for more opportunity through rebounds, some dirtier goals, goals by tips and more..

 

That may be the case, but I find they often pass off from the direct shot.

What makes Stone's shot most effective (IMHO) is that it is a direct shot.

Anything other than caught by the goalie is a first or second chance.

That doesn't always mean the dirty goal, as much as being in position to jump on it.

Teams that defend the box well don't give time and space to get a stick on it.

Ruzicka scored because he slightly delayed and pounced.

Dube and Mangiapane both drove to the net looking for that 2nd chance.

Too many players in the way to get anything on it.

So, my motto would be drive to the net, but hold back a little.

Be slightly back of the  F with the puck, to allow the pass or pounce.

Not much good when the D takes away the pass without having to overcommit.

 

Ras is being too much of a bumper at the blueline, but not getting it down low.

No direct shots.

Anyway, not sure it's something that change unless you build the lines to work that way.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

i honestly don't like Toffoli. He is a take a few strides guy and shoot it. There isn't enough flow to his game which might make play die often. He will get points because volume shots.

 

Toffoli is the least worry on the roster.

Lindholm not scoring where he was money last year.

Mangiapane and Dube both look sub par in the execution.

Lucic has fallen off to the point of being a scrub.

Lewis only seems to have a positive effect at 5v5 and then it's just dirty goals.

Which is fine, but little effect when that 4th line is together.

[robrob74]

Travel,

 

I mean the times the team enter the zone, there are a lot of plays where guys take a shot and the others haven't even caught up, or doesn't allow for extra chances. Guys are then caught skating one way and the other team is in transition with numbers the other way.

I would also be tempted to go:

 

Huberdeau, Kadri, Lindholm

 

Lindholm and Kadri can take their strong side draws.

 

Mangiapane, Backlund Coleman

 

I get that we don't want to limit the center depth, but if we can only get one line going then the center depth is nixed  anyway. This line worked. Get it working again.

 

Toffoli, Ruzicka, Dube

 

I want something to happen. Not sure what yet. It's a makeshift line, but maybe they find a way to shelter them a bit? For some reason I don't like Dube on the left side. 
 

 

Lucic, Lewis, Rooney/Ritchie

[robrob74]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Toffoli is the least worry on the roster.

Lindholm not scoring where he was money last year.

Mangiapane and Dube both look sub par in the execution.

Lucic has fallen off to the point of being a scrub.

Lewis only seems to have a positive effect at 5v5 and then it's just dirty goals.

Which is fine, but little effect when that 4th line is together.

 

I get that Toffoli is a lesser worry, but if the make up is putting others below standards then the make up is the problem. It's why I'd suggest loading up and getting Mangiapane back where he was producing. We need him to score at Least 25 goals. 
 

Backlund is an okay 2nd liner, but I get when you have him there the C depth isn't good. But can Ruzicka do well there on the 3rd?

 

we need two lines going, not half of one or one...

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I get that Toffoli is a lesser worry, but if the make up is putting others below standards then the make up is the problem. It's why I'd suggest loading up and getting Mangiapane back where he was producing. We need him to score at Least 25 goals. 
 

Backlund is an okay 2nd liner, but I get when you have him there the C depth isn't good. But can Ruzicka do well there on the 3rd?

 

we need two lines going, not half of one or one...

 

I don't have the luxury of extended views of different combos.

We had Hubey not meshing for the first 6 games.

The reaction was to mess up every line.

 

We have one line that plays well per game.

Sutter messed up the top line when he bumped down Ruzie to the 4th line for 1 2/3 games.

There may have ben good reason for it, but the solution was worse.

 

So, here is my crazy view of Kadri.

He played well with Nichuskin, who was a power forward.

They caused a lot of disruption on the ice.

The closest thing we have to him is Ritchie or Ruzie.

Maybe Dube works at RW there, but not sure.

 

So, let me put it this way again

Hubey-Lindholm-Toffoli

That puts the top players together now that they have started to play better individually.

Want to see Hubey pass a bit less and shoot more.

 

Ruzicka-Kadri-Dube

Someone capable of making a good pass to the C.

Each one of those guys can have a lethal shot.

Ruzie needs to be a bit less shy around the goalie.

 

Mange-Backlund-Coleman

What can I say that wasn't [proven last year.

These guys are dominant.  They all go to the net.

Backlund wrister isn't super hard, but it can be accurate.

 

4th line

If you are going to sit one player every game, why is it that only the new Flame is getting sat?

Sutter claims FO% makes a difference.

Lewis 36%

Rooney 42%

Might as well have 3 guys that can skate.

Lucic is painful to watch for 50% of a game.

He gets moving sometimes, but it's like watching a train stop and go back the other way.

[tmac70]

I just can't see why the need to put Kadri and Lindholm on the same line, it just creates more issue IMHO. I will agree that this club needs a some form of emotional boost or feel good story to get going. Outside of goaltending, the execution seems to be just l slightly off. We don't have our feet moving when passes come or just really poor give aways at the wrong time. The other underlying factor is the 4th line, Lucic needs to be removed, he is not currently more of a assest to the other team than an assest to us. There in nothing he brings to the table as an asset right now. 

 

The fact that we have to many players not worth their contracts is troubling. Mags has invisible the entire  year, very disappointed in his performance. Than Markstrom at his contract size he needs to be far better. Kadri has been struggling the last few games. Kadri is struggling because in COl they held on to the puck, here its dump lose possesion and chase to get it back. Plus he is on a line with guys that can't win puck battles or foot races now. CGY has become predicatable in defending especailly when they have possesion.  

 

Call up Philips or even Zary get some youthful enery in the room some excitment. One thing is for certain your not in a better position to win with Lucic in the line up, thats for sure. 

 

Hubie Lindholm Toffoli

Rozie Kadri Phillips

Coleman Backs Mags

Ritchie Dube Lewis

 

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

Hubie Lindholm Toffoli

Rozie Kadri Phillips

Coleman Backs Mags

Ritchie Dube Lewis

 

I don't have a problem with the content of the lines, but I night suggest a few swap from LW to RW.

I'm never 100% sure if Coleman is RW or LW when he played with Mange.

I thought he mostly played RW with Mange on LW.

 

Ritchie on LW seems off.

Maybe Dube there and Lewis at C.

Dube takes 50% of the draws or better, depending on how they are doing.

They revert to their normal spot after the draw.

 

Other than that, it would be interesting to see Phillips play with Kadri and Ruzicka.

There is some experience there.

Phillips would need to use his positioning to get in and out of trouble.

Can't say it would be any worse than the 2nd line is now.