Flames 22/23 Lineup

[travel_dude]

I'm not sure I get the idea that Lucic is a top 6 player...on any team.

Oh well.

I get the sense Sutter isn't happy with Mange and Dube.

Maybe consider 

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli
Huberdeau-Kadri-Mangiapane
Coleman-Backlund-Dube
Kucic-Lewis-Ritchie
Rooney

[travel_dude]

Interesting comments from Sutter.

Said with Lindy, his best player, you don't want to experiment.

When something works, I guess you leave it.

Not that Ruzicka is the right guy, but he's fitting in with Lindy.

[JTech780]

Ruzicka is driving play right now, and last night was his best game in the NHL. I am not sure how long he can keep it up, but let him play with skilled players and see what he can do. He looks really confident right now.

 

Lewis right now, while not finishing much has been insanely good at driving play, I am sure a lot of that comes with playing with Backlund.

 

Dube has the lowest shots per 60 on the team and Sutter really prioritizes getting pucks on net, so that is why he is on the 4th line.

 

Rooney has been really bad to start the season, and if anyone on the Wranglers was actually ready to fill that role I am sure they would be up.

[pikey7883]

29 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Ruzicka is driving play right now, and last night was his best game in the NHL. I am not sure how long he can keep it up, but let him play with skilled players and see what he can do. He looks really confident right now.

 

Lewis right now, while not finishing much has been insanely good at driving play, I am sure a lot of that comes with playing with Backlund.

 

Dube has the lowest shots per 60 on the team and Sutter really prioritizes getting pucks on net, so that is why he is on the 4th line.

 

Rooney has been really bad to start the season, and if anyone on the Wranglers was actually ready to fill that role I am sure they would be up.

I have been a proponent for Dube since he was the captain of the WJ team. His work ethic and tenacity is unmatched. He has always been a leader and always showing up in top top shape proves he’s willing to put in the effort. But unfortunately for us and him it just hasn’t come together. I saw someone make a proposal for Crouse on another site, and wonder what that would look like when Hubie comes back.

Leave Ruzie with Lindy and Toff, (like many of you are saying). Its working and clicking, and Ruzie to me is a very defensively responsible player. It can come across as a tentative player, but I think he sees the game better from a defensive standpoint and that helps him create turnovers and moves the puck well, which was evidence last night.

Try Hubie with Kadri and Crouse, (I’ll explain). Trade Dube, Mackey, and a 2nd for Crouse. To me that looks eerily similar to Kadri’s line last year in Colorado. They should be a lot to deal with as a line.

Mang with Backs and Cole’s, we have rarely complained about this line, and the familiarity get Mang back on his game.

Leave the vets of Looch, Lewis, and Ritchie together. They are what they are, and when Sutter can utilize them effectively, they’re the best 4th line in hockey.

[Thebrewcrew]

Ruzicka should be given an extended run. He's one of the Flames 12 best forwards right now.

 

I liked Rooney in the preseason, but not as much in the regular season. He would be the odd-man out for me now. 

[pcs]

I get all the hype around Hubie, and very happy to see he’ll be returning. But is it just me, or is no one talking about how awesome Kadri has been for us? I get that he’s not putting up McDavid numbers or anything, but he’s been the most consistent forward on the team with the best numbers. To me, he’s the “franchise forward” right now, until someone else does something ON THIS TEAM to actually earn that label.

[flames for life]

1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:

I have been a proponent for Dube since he was the captain of the WJ team. His work ethic and tenacity is unmatched. He has always been a leader and always showing up in top top shape proves he’s willing to put in the effort. But unfortunately for us and him it just hasn’t come together. I saw someone make a proposal for Crouse on another site, and wonder what that would look like when Hubie comes back.

Leave Ruzie with Lindy and Toff, (like many of you are saying). Its working and clicking, and Ruzie to me is a very defensively responsible player. It can come across as a tentative player, but I think he sees the game better from a defensive standpoint and that helps him create turnovers and moves the puck well, which was evidence last night.

Try Hubie with Kadri and Crouse, (I’ll explain). Trade Dube, Mackey, and a 2nd for Crouse. To me that looks eerily similar to Kadri’s line last year in Colorado. They should be a lot to deal with as a line.

Mang with Backs and Cole’s, we have rarely complained about this line, and the familiarity get Mang back on his game.

Leave the vets of Looch, Lewis, and Ritchie together. They are what they are, and when Sutter can utilize them effectively, they’re the best 4th line in hockey.

I’m disappointed with Mang being moved down in the lineups, but totally understand why.  He is not playing as he did last year.  I think that last year his tenacity at getting open for shots on net were relevant, but right now he looks to be the playmaker, which is not his strength.  He need to drive play forward to the corners.  Too often this season I see him enter the zone, only to button-hook and try to set up someone else; and gets taken out almost every time.  His best plays all seem to come from the slot, not the playmaking attempts from the sides.  That’s Backlund’s domain.

[flames for life]

I’m also reading a lot about Matthew Phillips, and how well he is doing in the Ahl. 
At what point is it considered to try him on the Flames.  His speed and shiftiness may be of value on the top 9.  

[pikey7883]

13 minutes ago, flames for life said:

I’m also reading a lot about Matthew Phillips, and how well he is doing in the Ahl. 
At what point is it considered to try him on the Flames.  His speed and shiftiness may be of value on the top 9.  

Dube has been much improved this year compared to last year on his ability to win board battles. But one of the knocks on him was how easy he is to knock off the puck, he is 5’ 11 and 190 lbs and is know to be one of the most physically fit guys on our team. Compare that to Phillips who is 5’7” and 140 lbs. He will need to be alot more than shifty, he makes Johnny look solid out there. 

[flames for life]

19 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

Dube has been much improved this year compared to last year on his ability to win board battles. But one of the knocks on him was how easy he is to knock off the puck, he is 5’ 11 and 190 lbs and is know to be one of the most physically fit guys on our team. Compare that to Phillips who is 5’7” and 140 lbs. He will need to be alot more than shifty, he makes Johnny look solid out there. 

And yet he is in the tops of his league for points and shots on net!  The players in the Ahl are just as big and just as tough as in the Nhl, with the only exception being they are a development league.  His success is against big players.  You’re right.  He is not Johnny, or Mangie for that matter.  And yet, he is still being successful.  At one point, either with the Flames or not, Philips will be in the Nhl.  He is too good a player to be ignored for long.

[conundrumed]

15 hours ago, flames for life said:

I’m disappointed with Mang being moved down in the lineups, but totally understand why.  He is not playing as he did last year.  I think that last year his tenacity at getting open for shots on net were relevant, but right now he looks to be the playmaker, which is not his strength.  He need to drive play forward to the corners.  Too often this season I see him enter the zone, only to button-hook and try to set up someone else; and gets taken out almost every time.  His best plays all seem to come from the slot, not the playmaking attempts from the sides.  That’s Backlund’s domain.

It’s his D-play that I see as his biggest struggle. Maybe Backlund helped with that. With Kadri he’s been a bit of a deer in the headlights defensively.

[travel_dude]

16 hours ago, flames for life said:

I’m disappointed with Mang being moved down in the lineups, but totally understand why.  He is not playing as he did last year.  I think that last year his tenacity at getting open for shots on net were relevant, but right now he looks to be the playmaker, which is not his strength.  He need to drive play forward to the corners.  Too often this season I see him enter the zone, only to button-hook and try to set up someone else; and gets taken out almost every time.  His best plays all seem to come from the slot, not the playmaking attempts from the sides.  That’s Backlund’s domain.

 

Sutter got frustrated with both Mange and Dube in the previous loss.

Two chances to draw even and both not finished.

Mangiapane with the wide open net and Dube with the down low chance.

Obviously Toffoli missed one, but is one of the top players, so that is taken into consideration.

 

As Conumdrumed mentioned, the issue was more the D play.

Mangiapane focuses more on it on the PK. 

[conundrumed]

We’re getting close to the time of the new season where things will start normalizing. There always hot start teams, players and goalies that will fall off. Some teams and players look better than they actually are and vice versa.

We’ll be okay. Likely don’t need any moves atm.

We had big changes and I’m willing to wait 1/4 of the season to see what works. We have enough to ice 4 good lines and 3 reasonably good pairings. Just gotta see how it gels.

Sutter’s been playing the fiddle a lot and I get the frustrations. But this is the only opportunity to play the darn thing before things get a world more competitive and the league starts normalizing. 

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

We’re getting close to the time of the new season where things will start normalizing. There always hot start teams, players and goalies that will fall off. Some teams and players look better than they actually are and vice versa.

We’ll be okay. Likely don’t need any moves atm.

We had big changes and I’m willing to wait 1/4 of the season to see what works. We have enough to ice 4 good lines and 3 reasonably good pairings. Just gotta see how it gels.

Sutter’s been playing the fiddle a lot and I get the frustrations. But this is the only opportunity to play the darn thing before things get a world more competitive and the league starts normalizing. 

 

We are rapidly approaching US Thanksgiving, which is traditionally the date that shows the playoff picture.

Yes, it's really just a quarter of the way through, but very few recover from early problems.

But, I am not panicking at this point.

We are 2 points out of 2nd WC spot with a game in hand.

We are 4 points back of 1st WC spot with 2 games in hand.

Regardless of the actual standings on American Thanksgiving, we have to win those games in hand.

 

[conundrumed]

9 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We are rapidly approaching US Thanksgiving, which is traditionally the date that shows the playoff picture.

Yes, it's really just a quarter of the way through, but very few recover from early problems.

But, I am not panicking at this point.

We are 2 points out of 2nd WC spot with a game in hand.

We are 4 points back of 1st WC spot with 2 games in hand.

Regardless of the actual standings on American Thanksgiving, we have to win those games in hand.

 

So St Loo will stay at the bottom of the league again? I know they like to tell us that, but it’s not really accurate. 

[conundrumed]

Ummm, uhhhhh….

 

[cross16]

Not a fan of that lineup nor am I a fan of how Sutter continues to throw these less than subtle jabs at Huberdeau. 

 

Sutter has had a varying leash on different players this year that could come back to bite him. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So St Loo will stay at the bottom of the league again? I know they like to tell us that, but it’s not really accurate. 

 

The point is that some that have a rough start never get back.

There is normally about one team per year that recovers.

STL was last leading up to the TDL.

I don't remember how they were at Thanksgiving the cup year.

 

Why is it so hard?

3 point games.

A loss to a division opponent like a 4 point game.

Just so hard to get back 10 points against an opponent, not impossible though.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Not a fan of that lineup nor am I a fan of how Sutter continues to throw these less than subtle jabs at Huberdeau. 

 

Sutter has had a varying leash on different players this year that could come back to bite him. 

 

The use of Lucic makes no sense.

He went to this 2nd line in the Saturday game.

Not like it was good, but it was different.

Lewis scored a shortie, so that's not really a sign that him playing with Backlund works.

Sure, it was a Backlund pass, but he had a breakaway.

 

Huberdeau with Backlund isn't bad, but the use of a 4th liner there doesn't make sense.

We have enough top 6 guys to create 3 decent lines.

 

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli
Huberdeau-Kadri-Mangiapane
Coleman-Backlund-Dube
Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie

 

or

 

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli
Coleman-Kadri-Dube
Huberdeau-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie

 

Really doesn't matter.  Neither of those lineups are as bad as the one Sutter is going with.

[cross16]

I agree that too much gets made out of this "American Thanksgiving" date/trend. The stats show that 77% of the teams in the playoffs at American thanksgiving go on to make the playoffs but the problem I have with that is the conclusion it draws. As of right now these teams would be going to the playoffs:

 

NJ

NYI

Carolina

Boston

TOR

TB

Rangers 

Florida

 

West

 

WPG

Dallas

Colorado

Vegas

LA

Seattle

EDM

Min

 

How many of those teams are a surprise? I'd say conservatively 12 of those teams (NJ, CAR,TO, TB, NYR,FLR, Dallas, Colorado, Vegas, LA, Edm and Min) were all teams that would have been high probability to be playoff teams before the season started. That works out to be 75% so what exactly are we proving by showing that 77% of teams in the playoffs next week will stay there? 

 

On the flip side those out of the playoffs right now:

Detroit

Montreal

Philly

WSH

Pitts

BUF

Ott

CLB

CHI

CGY

ARI

NSH

SJ

VAN

STL

 

How many of those teams are a surprise?

 

Last year Dallas was 3 points out (and were down a game in hand too) and LA was 2 points out and down 3 games in hand. 

 

We draw that wrong conclusions from the stats IMO. Teams on the door step can easily make it IMO and really the 2nd Q of the season is when teams start to separate. 

[zima]

Can some one please tell me what happened to Khyl ?

[conundrumed]

27 minutes ago, zima said:

Can some one please tell me what happened to Khyl ?

Like you, we have no idea.

[zima]

No not like me I'm always in the dark

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, zima said:

Can some one please tell me what happened to Khyl ?

 

The GM said he would not discuss and believes the player needs privacy.

We all want to know, but there is no info.

Personal and family related.

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The GM said he would not discuss and believes the player needs privacy.

We all want to know, but there is no info.

Personal and family related.

Just a black hole. Like Vrana, but at least we know Vrana entered the league’s player assistance program as Price and others have done.

Kylington is a bigger question mark. Personally, I have zero idea why it remains hidden. Seems very counter-intuitive. It will be addressed like a tidal wave when/if he comes back. Why not attempt to get ahead of it a little?

Very strange to let it reach a crescendo of silence in this day and age.