Flames 22/23 Lineup

[travel_dude]

15 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I don't want to be too negative this year. I've had issues with the scoring depth the past few years. I get the whole Mange scored this and Dube scored that. They can be shut down though if and when other teams care to play good D. 
 

the last few years a lot of Flames players don't like going to the dirty areas. It seems to be a

trend that is continuing. How do they get to the scoring chances that generate more chances than one?

 

 

 

 

I would suggest that the trend may have been related to who we had.  Monahan was broken so he wasn't able to get to his office.  Gaudreau doesn't go there.  Lindholm likes the quiet areas which is hard to find.  Kylington and Hanifin like to skate behind the net in the O-zone.  

 

We have changes three lines almost entirely.  It takes some time for them to figure out what level of skill and what level of in your face hockey is needed.   Big difference between Backlund or Lindholm and Bennett or Barkov.  Kadri is playing with two guys that are a little small, but try to get to the hard areas.  Dube seems to be better at skill chances while Mangiapane finds the gritty areas.  Right now Mange is missing open nets and Dube isn't burying it.  But all three of those guys (Kadri incl) are shooters.  You will see them score when a really good pass hits their stick.  Not so much of that so far.  Just to say that it isn't a great mix of players.  But options aren't great for a different look there.

 

I don't think we have seen it, but I think we could try a few options.  Right now Backlund is getting close to the most minutes.  On the road that might work, but I think you want to lessen his minutes.  Ruzie is a good passer but isn't 100% effective.  Like to see him refine his game a bit more.  Show he is worth the top line minutes.  

 

 

 

 

 

[cross16]

17 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I don't want to be too negative this year. I've had issues with the scoring depth the past few years. I get the whole Mange scored this and Dube scored that. They can be shut down though if and when other teams care to play good D. 
 

the last few years a lot of Flames players don't like going to the dirty areas. It seems to be a

trend that is continuing. How do they get to the scoring chances that generate more chances than one?

 

 

 

 

Who can't be? Should be a pretty small list but it be interested to see who meets this criteria.

[zima]

Thank god it's a long season and we will get better lots of new faces and a sutter game plan and to some a very ridged one. I hope raz keeps putting up points just to bad he played so many games last yr possibly could have a rookie of the yr option.

[cross16]

Willing to give this lineup a few more games but this is what I would want to see next

 

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Coleman. I think they need to give Huberdeau and Lindholm a shot again. Huberdeau is getting more comfortable, as is Lindholm. The problem I've always seen with this pair is who carries the puck. Coleman can be a Duclair lite I think. 

Dube - Kadri - Toffoli - 

Ruzicka - Backlund - Mang. Mang has really struggled so far. Pair him with Backlund for a while who is the king at helping people find their games. 

Lucic - Rooney - Lewis. 

[cross16]

 

[JTech780]

55 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Willing to give this lineup a few more games but this is what I would want to see next

 

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Coleman. I think they need to give Huberdeau and Lindholm a shot again. Huberdeau is getting more comfortable, as is Lindholm. The problem I've always seen with this pair is who carries the puck. Coleman can be a Duclair lite I think. 

Dube - Kadri - Toffoli - 

Ruzicka - Backlund - Mang. Mang has really struggled so far. Pair him with Backlund for a while who is the king at helping people find their games. 

Lucic - Rooney - Lewis. 

I have no problem putting your best passer with your best shooter, but I wonder if putting Huberdeau on RW would help. He seems to struggle to get Lindholm the puck in shooting positions, because he really hasn’t played with many RHS. So putting him on the right side of Lindholm means he’s passing to Lindholm’s one time side. Might give Lindholm more looks and Huberdeau is more than skilled enough to make those passes on his backhand.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Willing to give this lineup a few more games but this is what I would want to see next

 

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Coleman. I think they need to give Huberdeau and Lindholm a shot again. Huberdeau is getting more comfortable, as is Lindholm. The problem I've always seen with this pair is who carries the puck. Coleman can be a Duclair lite I think. 

Dube - Kadri - Toffoli - 

Ruzicka - Backlund - Mang. Mang has really struggled so far. Pair him with Backlund for a while who is the king at helping people find their games. 

Lucic - Rooney - Lewis. 

 

We saw exactly one game where the top line looked as a whole not great.

I agree that we should let them continue to see if that was a one off or a bigger issue.

TBH, I saw the Kadri line struggling more in the last few games, not just one game.

Dube scored, so I will give him that, but too many missed chances otherwise.

Huberdeau-Backlund was a fine duo, but maybe too much defensive responsibilities to really excel.

 

I guess what I am trying to figure out is who best fits with Kadri.  

To me, that line is made up of too many shooters not enough passers.

They all have been trying to take the puck themselves to the net.

Maybe, since Ruzie tends to pass off, he should be with Kadri.

That implies you need a good finisher on RW.

 

For sake of argument, if we move Hiberdeau back to the top line, I would leave Toffoli there.

So...

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Ruzicka-Kadri-Dube

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

 

Swap Coleman and Dube if you like, I think either could work.

I think the top line was just not firing on all cylinders to start the season.

That shouldn't be as much an issue now.

Mange and Coleman played really well last year and should be able to do similar again.

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

I have no problem putting your best passer with your best shooter, but I wonder if putting Huberdeau on RW would help. He seems to struggle to get Lindholm the puck in shooting positions, because he really hasn’t played with many RHS. So putting him on the right side of Lindholm means he’s passing to Lindholm’s one time side. Might give Lindholm more looks and Huberdeau is more than skilled enough to make those passes on his backhand.

 

I don't think you'd need to change his position as once they gain the o zone their wingers are pretty interchangeable. 

 

With that amount of adjustments he's already had to make I don't think I'd be adding a foreign position to Huberdeau's list. 

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We saw exactly one game where the top line looked as a whole not great.

I agree that we should let them continue to see if that was a one off or a bigger issue.

TBH, I saw the Kadri line struggling more in the last few games, not just one game.

Dube scored, so I will give him that, but too many missed chances otherwise.

Huberdeau-Backlund was a fine duo, but maybe too much defensive responsibilities to really excel.

 

I guess what I am trying to figure out is who best fits with Kadri.  

To me, that line is made up of too many shooters not enough passers.

They all have been trying to take the puck themselves to the net.

Maybe, since Ruzie tends to pass off, he should be with Kadri.

That implies you need a good finisher on RW.

 

For sake of argument, if we move Hiberdeau back to the top line, I would leave Toffoli there.

So...

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Ruzicka-Kadri-Dube

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

 

Swap Coleman and Dube if you like, I think either could work.

I think the top line was just not firing on all cylinders to start the season.

That shouldn't be as much an issue now.

Mange and Coleman played really well last year and should be able to do similar again.

 

 

I think Kadri wants the puck until it gets to the o zone and then his strength is distributing it. I think you want 1 player who can keep up with him for potential rush chances and then another (or both) who can find open ice because he can get him the puck. Toffoli makes the most amount of sense to me there. Mang should be a great fit with him but he's just really fighting it right now. 

 

I personally don't think Huberdeau - Lindholm - Toffoli can work because who carries the puck in transition? That is why that line struggled IMO, so I'm not in a hurry to go back to them. 

[JTech780]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think you'd need to change his position as once they gain the o zone their wingers are pretty interchangeable. 

 

With that amount of adjustments he's already had to make I don't think I'd be adding a foreign position to Huberdeau's list. 

That’s fair, I just worry that Huberdeau wants to pass off his forehand which makes sense it’s just that it’s an awkward pass to RHS center off the rush.

 

Not sure how you get around it.

 

Maybe Huberdeau-Ruzicka-Lindholm

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

That’s fair, I just worry that Huberdeau wants to pass off his forehand which makes sense it’s just that it’s an awkward pass to RHS center off the rush.

 

Not sure how you get around it.

 

Maybe Huberdeau-Ruzicka-Lindholm

Or Dube for Rosey. Doesn't matter who takes the draws, revert post-draw.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

I think Kadri wants the puck until it gets to the o zone and then his strength is distributing it. I think you want 1 player who can keep up with him for potential rush chances and then another (or both) who can find open ice because he can get him the puck. Toffoli makes the most amount of sense to me there. Mang should be a great fit with him but he's just really fighting it right now. 

 

I personally don't think Huberdeau - Lindholm - Toffoli can work because who carries the puck in transition? That is why that line struggled IMO, so I'm not in a hurry to go back to them. 

 

Yes that line struggled as a whole to start the season.

I take the point, but we also have a D-man that should be involved in transition (Weegar).

What I can't be certain is whether that was just the anomoly of three players struggling to work together.

All have kinda found their stride a bit.

 

Not in a big rush to change the lines if they work, just some thought to what could work.

This is all just opinion of what may or may not work.

Some games we see some parts working, but it doesn't appear to be constant.

The PP looks good at time, so not sure if that's Kadri or work of the unit all together.

Just my take on what I think could improve the balance.

I'm not at practice, so I can't be sure if that is so.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

We saw exactly one game where the top line looked as a whole not great.

I agree that we should let them continue to see if that was a one off or a bigger issue.

TBH, I saw the Kadri line struggling more in the last few games, not just one game.

Dube scored, so I will give him that, but too many missed chances otherwise.

Huberdeau-Backlund was a fine duo, but maybe too much defensive responsibilities to really excel.

 

I guess what I am trying to figure out is who best fits with Kadri.  

To me, that line is made up of too many shooters not enough passers.

They all have been trying to take the puck themselves to the net.

Maybe, since Ruzie tends to pass off, he should be with Kadri.

That implies you need a good finisher on RW.

 

For sake of argument, if we move Hiberdeau back to the top line, I would leave Toffoli there.

So...

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

Ruzicka-Kadri-Dube

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

 

Swap Coleman and Dube if you like, I think either could work.

I think the top line was just not firing on all cylinders to start the season.

That shouldn't be as much an issue now.

Mange and Coleman played really well last year and should be able to do similar again.

 

 

what I'm reading is that there still isn't enough playmakers on the team. Kind of not ideal for building the depth. 
 

I would try keep Ruzicka with Lindholm and Toffoli.

 

I would like to see Huberdeau with Kadri and Dube.

 

go with Mangiapane with Backlund and Coleman, or keep Huberdeau with Backlund but out Mangiapane with them.
 

The thing I liked whaat they were saying on the fan the other day was that Backlund is so responsible that it allows Huberdeau to play his game and transition into the system more smoothly. I think it is a great idea. 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

I don't think you'd need to change his position as once they gain the o zone their wingers are pretty interchangeable. 

 

With that amount of adjustments he's already had to make I don't think I'd be adding a foreign position to Huberdeau's list. 

I think interchanging as they enter the zone could add a dynamic that could open up space for players. I find there could be not enough of that, the crisscross after gaining the zone to open up lanes. 
 

But I think that, like last year, we are still down one playmaker on F to make up the rest of the roster. 

[flames for life]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:21 PM, robrob74 said:

 

what I'm reading is that there still isn't enough playmakers on the team. Kind of not ideal for building the depth. 
 

I would try keep Ruzicka with Lindholm and Toffoli.

 

I would like to see Huberdeau with Kadri and Dube.

 

go with Mangiapane with Backlund and Coleman, or keep Huberdeau with Backlund but out Mangiapane with them.
 

The thing I liked whaat they were saying on the fan the other day was that Backlund is so responsible that it allows Huberdeau to play his game and transition into the system more smoothly. I think it is a great idea. 

One thing of note that numerous people have recognized; Backlund is an anchor on the team in ways that haven’t been fully credited.  He makes players better by being the rudder to their game.  He did that with Tkachuk, Mangepane, Dube to an extent; and now, Hubie is playing into the role that was expected of him by playing with a steady and strong Centre.

Backlund’s contribution to the Flames continues to evolve and improve into something special.  Hats off to the guy!!

 

[redfire11]

3 hours ago, flames for life said:

One thing of note that numerous people have recognized; Backlund is an anchor on the team in ways that haven’t been fully credited.  He makes players better by being the rudder to their game.  He did that with Tkachuk, Mangepane, Dube to an extent; and now, Hubie is playing into the role that was expected of him by playing with a steady and strong Centre.

Backlund’s contribution to the Flames continues to evolve and improve into something special.  Hats off to the guy!!

 

Agree FFL Backlund should be wearing the C

[Thebrewcrew]

I get that the Flames don't want to "gift" a spot to young players.

 

That said, they have three of the top 13 scorers in the AHL playing for the Wranglers.

Sonny Milano couldn't earn a contract on this team. On Washington his production has been equal to Mang/Dube. 

This coaching staff put way too much emphasis on Camp, the whole "Nobody stepped up" thing is getting old. Not sure what more you can ask from your prospects, they didn't make the team, they went to the Wranglers and are dominating. In the case of Phillips and Pelletier it's been a continuation from last year. They were excellent AHLers, but didn't get an opportunity. 

 

The forward group as currently constructed is flawed. I don't know if a Phillips or Pelletier will help, but it's worth a try. One thing I do know, is that playing Trevor Lewis on the top line for the majority of a game is not ideal.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I get that the Flames don't want to "gift" a spot to young players.

 

That said, they have three of the top 13 scorers in the AHL playing for the Wranglers.

Sonny Milano couldn't earn a contract on this team. On Washington his production has been equal to Mang/Dube. 

This coaching staff put way too much emphasis on Camp, the whole "Nobody stepped up" thing is getting old. Not sure what more you can ask from your prospects, they didn't make the team, they went to the Wranglers and are dominating. In the case of Phillips and Pelletier it's been a continuation from last year. They were excellent AHLers, but didn't get an opportunity. 

 

The forward group as currently constructed is flawed. I don't know if a Phillips or Pelletier will help, but it's worth a try. One thing I do know, is that playing Trevor Lewis on the top line for the majority of a game is not ideal.

other thing I feel is flawed thinking: by trying a guy out with skilled players is gifting a player a spot, that they have to earn it. So play them with lesser talent in the bottom 6 or non-nhlers and they have to work their way up or make those players better? It's a failed logic.
 

i think A player can only play up to their line mates and that can only work with what they get. If a guy is destined to be a top 9 or top 6, try them in those spots with other actual top 9 or top 6 NHL players. 
 

I dunno? 

[Thebrewcrew]

8 hours ago, robrob74 said:

other thing I feel is flawed thinking: by trying a guy out with skilled players is gifting a player a spot, that they have to earn it. So play them with lesser talent in the bottom 6 or non-nhlers and they have to work their way up or make those players better? It's a failed logic.
 

i think A player can only play up to their line mates and that can only work with what they get. If a guy is destined to be a top 9 or top 6, try them in those spots with other actual top 9 or top 6 NHL players. 
 

I dunno? 

I've made a conscious effort to be patient this year. There was a ton of change and it can take time for things to gel.

 

Quarter of the season in now. The Flames are right in the thick of it, so things could always be worse. What I'm seeing right now though is a team that's scored 59 goals in 20 games. 2.95/game. I also see a team that's won 4 games in the past month. 

 

Right now, the Flames are trotting out four 4th line forwards regularly. Lewis/Lucic/Ritchie/Rooney. On a night where all four are in the lineup, 4 of 12 forwards being 4th line/fringe NHLers isn't great. Not gonna pin it all on them because there have been some key players on the Flames that haven't been very good. It just highlights a depth issue on the Flames is all. 

 

Which is why I think it's time to look at a recall when the team arrives home. Francis thinks they would callup Duehr, which would be a head-scratcher. At some point you need to reward your kids, otherwise what's the point of developing them? You've got three of the best forwards in the AHL as Calgary Flame property. You've got an NHL team that can't score. It makes way too much sense. It's at least worth a try...

[cross16]

16 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I get that the Flames don't want to "gift" a spot to young players.

 

That said, they have three of the top 13 scorers in the AHL playing for the Wranglers.

Sonny Milano couldn't earn a contract on this team. On Washington his production has been equal to Mang/Dube. 

This coaching staff put way too much emphasis on Camp, the whole "Nobody stepped up" thing is getting old. Not sure what more you can ask from your prospects, they didn't make the team, they went to the Wranglers and are dominating. In the case of Phillips and Pelletier it's been a continuation from last year. They were excellent AHLers, but didn't get an opportunity. 

 

The forward group as currently constructed is flawed. I don't know if a Phillips or Pelletier will help, but it's worth a try. One thing I do know, is that playing Trevor Lewis on the top line for the majority of a game is not ideal.

Extremely well said. 
 

one of the few things that are frustrating having Sutter as your coach. Such an archaic methodology to player development. 
 

now to be fair, the salary cap is part of this I think but they can make it work now. 

[flames for life]

I think it needs to be said, the one thing glaringly missing is scoring, and one of the top scorers in the Ahl is Phillips.  We need to give him the opportunity to show this at the next level, or he will leave and another team will benefit from our development.

[travel_dude]

16 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I get that the Flames don't want to "gift" a spot to young players.

 

That said, they have three of the top 13 scorers in the AHL playing for the Wranglers.

Sonny Milano couldn't earn a contract on this team. On Washington his production has been equal to Mang/Dube. 

This coaching staff put way too much emphasis on Camp, the whole "Nobody stepped up" thing is getting old. Not sure what more you can ask from your prospects, they didn't make the team, they went to the Wranglers and are dominating. In the case of Phillips and Pelletier it's been a continuation from last year. They were excellent AHLers, but didn't get an opportunity. 

 

The forward group as currently constructed is flawed. I don't know if a Phillips or Pelletier will help, but it's worth a try. One thing I do know, is that playing Trevor Lewis on the top line for the majority of a game is not ideal.

 

I wasn't initally in favor of Phillips getting the call, but I am startng to rethink that.

He may get buried, but we aren't exactly killing in in the O zone.

I would actually try him in Dube's place.

Give him 2 games.

Not like Dube is making the best decisions out there.

Put him back with Lucic for a bit.

[Thebrewcrew]

10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wasn't initally in favor of Phillips getting the call, but I am startng to rethink that.

He may get buried, but we aren't exactly killing in in the O zone.

I would actually try him in Dube's place.

Give him 2 games.

Not like Dube is making the best decisions out there.

Put him back with Lucic for a bit.

I still don't know if he will, but I hope I'm wrong. 

 

This is a player that's done everything asked of him and a team that could use a spark. Makes too much sense. 

 

I don't particularly care if he's a "Sutter player" or not. The team is filled with players like that. They've won 4 games since starting 5-1. Things haven't been going well, adding a skilled player that may only be 5'7" can't hurt. 

 

Give him 4 or 5 games. See what you have. Maybe Phillips isn't an NHLer, nobody knows. But look at what has happened with Ruzicka the past two weeks 

[Thebrewcrew]

Quarter of the way through the season.

 

Lots of offensive regression. Here's what some key Flames are on pace for.

 

Huberdeau- 44pts

Kadri- 59pts

Mangiapane- 27pts

Dube- 23pts

Lindholm- 62pts

 

Among the Flames key forwards, Toffoli and Coleman are the only forwards on pace for a better year than last year. Backlund is on track for the same point total.

 

I'm all for an infusion of youth into the forward group, but things aren't going to improve until the Flames highest paid players start playing to their capabilities. 

[redfire11]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I would actually try him in Dube's place.

I would actually try him in lucic's place.

I would like to see both Pelletier and Phillips come up and play together. Leave Ritchie or worst case Lewis/Lucic to police the line.