Flames 22/23 Lineup

[JTech780]

New lines at practice.

 

I like the first line, second line is awful, the third line will be very good and the fourth should be ok.

 

Having Lewis and now Lucic in the top 9 really speaks to the lack of forward depth. Also the fact that none of the young guys stepped up and took that job is disappointing. 

[pcs]

42 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I get why Sutter wants to reward Lucic, and I totally agree with tinkering with the top line, but it seems to me Looch and Ritchie have been effected as a unit, and in part due to the way they’ve been deployed. Moving looch up to 2nd line and giving Ritchie 2 entirely new linemates seems like a counterproductive experiment to me.

[travel_dude]

48 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

New lines at practice.

 

I like the first line, second line is awful, the third line will be very good and the fourth should be ok.

 

Having Lewis and now Lucic in the top 9 really speaks to the lack of forward depth. Also the fact that none of the young guys stepped up and took that job is disappointing. 

 

Of all the guys on the roster, I felt that Lewis should be the extra, not Rooney.

Makes more sense having Rooney move to LW than Lewis.

 

I do like the top and 3rd line.

Kadri and Mange already have chemistry.

3rd line was good latter stages of last year and playoffs (IIRC).

Lindholm with Toffoli isn't the worst thing but we need better than Lucic in the top 6.

It may work out okay, since Lucic is just going to be net front and forechecking.

Any pucks he digs loose will go to Lindy or Toffoli.

 

Speaking of which, I do remember a chance against the Oiler later, where Lucic was playing with Lindholm.

Very similar to Ritchie's goal.

High danger chance.

 

Anyway, this smacks of needing a top 6 winger.

Perhaps this is also Sutter's way of getting Rozie going.

If he looks good, then you could possibly use him in Lucic's place.

Just thinking out loud.

[tmac70]

14 minutes ago, pcs said:

I get why Sutter wants to reward Lucic, and I totally agree with tinkering with the top line, but it seems to me Looch and Ritchie have been effected as a unit, and in part due to the way they’ve been deployed. Moving looch up to 2nd line and giving Ritchie 2 entirely new linemates seems like a counterproductive experiment to me.

Have to agree if it isn't broke don't fix it. Lucic was fine on the 4th line, the 2nd line was great. Its Lewis and Toffoli that were the issue on the other two lines. If anything promote Ritchie  demote Lewis to the 4th line. There is a huge hole in the top 6, but really Lucic in a top 6 role is so wrong. If anyone should have been allow to move up would be Ritchie IMHO. 

 

 

 

[bosn111]

Top line just wasn’t firing. Huberdeau trying to make things happen but not able to really find good passes. Kadri and Mangiapane should help create more space for him.

 

Lucic is there to create space for Lindholm and Toffoli. I don’t see chemistry between Lindholm and Toffoli which is the biggest issue.

 

Toffoli needs a board grinding power forward to make space and a passer to get him the puck. Kadri is the closest thing to that. Lindholm is also more of a shooter with strong D. We are really missing the passer we need to work with Toffoli. 
 

Doubt these are lines for long, but yeah. Better to test against the Kraken than the Oilers.

[travel_dude]

I have to say that we tend to read a lot into things that the coach doesn't really see.

Does he try some things in practices that we don't expect?  Yes.

Do they mean what we think they mean?  Not really.

 

Ruzicka may get into a game on Tuesday.

Rooney may sit.

But really, there is very little practice time over the next two weeks.

Have to see some different looks.

Could we actually see Lindholm with Lucic?  Yes, because we saw some of that Saturday.

But, really there isn't a lot of choice available.

Dube has played with Backlund, but has not played much with Lindy recently.

Hiberdeau plays with Kadri on the PP.

 

Why don't we see Ritchie on the 2nd line?

Becuase Ritchie plays his role to his strengths; checking, physical, responsible, does what coach wants.

When his minutes slip, he's missing out on those aspects.  8-10 minutes is the norm.

 

We are seeing the coach try different guys in the top 6, because he doesn't have any other choice.

A trade may be necessary, because the only other option is Phillips or Zary.

Neither guy stood out enough to make the roster.

Which is fine.

Zary is probably the most likely, but he's only had part of a pro season.

I think he may actually fit with Backlund, playing RW.

Gets strong side faceoffs, but Backlund doesn't really need that much help on draws.

He played a shutdown role on Team Canada, so maybe that works.

But I think that is a discussion for a bit later in the season.

For the time being, Ruzicka is the most likely to get in.

\He needs to do everything right and maybe he gets time with Backlund.

[cross16]

I don't blame Sutter for trying. It may have been easy to say it's too early to worry about the top line I'm not so sure it was. In the offseason I had questions about who was going to be the puck carrier on that line and I think that was where that line was really struggling. They were great once they got it into the zone (just snake bitten) but I think you'd want more volume and consistency out of your top line. 

 

Be intersting to see if he sticks with those or is this just a mix up for a practice and a way to get Ruzicka some more time. I can get the rationale behind most of it and i'd be curious how he treats lines 2/3. Could argue he's trying to create a more offensive oriented line 3 with having Dube down there. 

 

Not sure why Sutter doesn't seem to be happy with Rooney. I've liked his game so far. Very good on his details. 

[DirtyDeeds]

On 10/30/2022 at 7:12 PM, Thebrewcrew said:

It's been 7 games and that line has yet to score at 5 on 5. There is a certain level of misfortune involved, but there are also instances where something just looks "off" with that line. Natural Stat Trick has them at 2.65 expected goals through 3 games at 5 on 5, which again points to some misfortune. They've also been credited with 11 high danger chances in 7 games. 

 

The biggest thing I've noticed with the Lindholm line is that they don't have a natural puck carrier. This is an area where I think the Flames miss Gaudreau the most, his ability to transport it the length of the ice. 

There were some articles and pieces of analysis published in the summer about Huberdeau not being a guy to transport the puck and that's what we are seeing right now. Production wise, he's been a very similar player to Gaudreau, but stylistically, they are very different. The best fit for Huberdeau might be Kadri as his C. He's the best puck carrying C the Flames have. 

 

Seven games is still a fairly small sample size, but you do need something out of that line sooner than later. For me, I'd give it until the end of the homestand, that's 10 games. If it's more of the same, it might be time to tinker.

They were tinkering with some lines today at practice. Kadri C on 1st line with Hubs and Looch.   

[pikey7883]

I would say that Looch with Lindy and Toffoli didn’t look that much different than Hubie with Lindy and Toffoli. This isn’t a knock on Hubie or a soap box for Looch. Just that something isn’t working there. 

[MP5029]

17 hours ago, JTech780 said:

New lines at practice.

 

I like the first line, second line is awful, the third line will be very good and the fourth should be ok.

 

Having Lewis and now Lucic in the top 9 really speaks to the lack of forward depth. Also the fact that none of the young guys stepped up and took that job is disappointing. 

The only issue is Lucic on the second line I’d rather they move him back to the 4th line and put Ruzi or Dube in that slot

[cross16]

While I agree Lucic in the top 6 isn't Ideal I can understand the fit. The hesitation I would have with a Lindholm-Toffoli pairing is who digs out pucks on the forecheck? 

 

Lucic is still very good at that. 

[travel_dude]

Darryl Sutter yesterday on what he wants to see from Adam Ruzicka when he draws in: “Some energy, some emotion, some possession, some zone-time, some shot volume, some faceoff wins, some contact.”

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

While I agree Lucic in the top 6 isn't Ideal I can understand the fit. The hesitation I would have with a Lindholm-Toffoli pairing is who digs out pucks on the forecheck? 

 

Lucic is still very good at that. 

 

Seeing as it's all 4 lines changing and not just Lucic moving up, I think Sutter has some question about the effectiveness of the lines as they were.  I don't think Rooney has been a problem at all.  He got more offense than Lewis and he's good on the PK.  But they needed to make some kind of change as opposed to leaving Lewis on the Backlund line.  

 

I think Dube actually helps the Backlund line.  I would prefer to see him on the RW, but Coleman can play either wing too.  Lucic doesn't ruin a Lindholm line, as they were struggling at 5v5.  He's not going to get the minutes the other two get, mostly because they play on the PP and PK.  If they need to reduce some of Lucic's minutes, they can double shift Dube or Mangiapane.  Mangiapane gets into the slot better than a lot of players and he plays well with Kadri.

 

The only real question I have is how Lewis plays on the off wing with Rozie and Ritchie.  Rozie needs to learn how to use his big body, so using him on a 4th line isn't a big issue right now.  That's part of his game he needs to change the most and be consistent with it.  

[conundrumed]

We’re 4th in the NHL by %age. Not our fault the sked sucks Hash Rate. 7 games, lowest in the league.🙄

Can't even get going with this snail pace.

Why bother shuffling lines yet? 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

We’re 4th in the NHL by %age. Not our fault the sked sucks Hash Rate. 7 games, lowest in the league.🙄

Can't even get going with this snail pace.

Why bother shuffling lines yet? 

 

Sutter is really hard on the wingers and producing.  When the shot volume is the best in the NHL, well at least that we have outshot every team so far, Sutter is expecting more goals.  The C's are responsible defensively, and are driving the play on the lines (puck carry for sure), so we need better finish at 5v5.

 

Huberdeau talked about never playing on a line with 2 RHS.

Maye the tendency is for them to pass more to Huberdeau.

 

[pikey7883]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sutter is really hard on the wingers and producing.  When the shot volume is the best in the NHL, well at least that we have outshot every team so far, Sutter is expecting more goals.  The C's are responsible defensively, and are driving the play on the lines (puck carry for sure), so we need better finish at 5v5.

 

Huberdeau talked about never playing on a line with 2 RHS.

Maye the tendency is for them to pass more to Huberdeau.

 

Just reading this right now and not putting a lot of thought into it. 
 

I wonder if what a line of 

Hubie - Ruzicka - Dube would look like? You could give them favourable starts and not rely on them from a defensive standpoint. Just curious what that would look like, almost like a sleeper line.

That could give you the chance to have a line of Mang-Kadri-Lindy. 
Then bottom 6 stays status quo currently? I know it’s not ideal to lose the center depth of Lindy, but I don’t think the experiment should be over yet?

[LouCifer]

 

[travel_dude]

51 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

Just reading this right now and not putting a lot of thought into it. 
 

I wonder if what a line of 

Hubie - Ruzicka - Dube would look like? You could give them favourable starts and not rely on them from a defensive standpoint. Just curious what that would look like, almost like a sleeper line.

That could give you the chance to have a line of Mang-Kadri-Lindy. 
Then bottom 6 stays status quo currently? I know it’s not ideal to lose the center depth of Lindy, but I don’t think the experiment should be over yet?

 

I look at the way Lindy was losing draws with Hubey.

Resulted in not enough possession.

I'm not against Rozie with Hubey, but it's a bit of a stretch for Rozie to take on that role.

He didn't have any time with them in camp or pre-season (that I remember).

It would for sure be interesting to see.

Would immediately give Rozie two solid linemates.

 

I do get the impression that Sutter wants Hubey to play with the top scoring players.

So, it's fine for a game.

[pikey7883]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I look at the way Lindy was losing draws with Hubey.

Resulted in not enough possession.

I'm not against Rozie with Hubey, but it's a bit of a stretch for Rozie to take on that role.

He didn't have any time with them in camp or pre-season (that I remember).

It would for sure be interesting to see.

Would immediately give Rozie two solid linemates.

 

I do get the impression that Sutter wants Hubey to play with the top scoring players.

So, it's fine for a game.

That’s kind of why I suggested creating a heavier top line with Kadri with Mang and Lindy. 
another line could be backs Coles and toff.

then take some pressure off of Hubie to bring along Rozie and Dube is holding his own on almost any line right now. 
that’s all I was trying to say

[redfire11]

What I see for pairings that have a beginning of good chemistry so far is;

Kadri Mangi Dude

Lindholm and Toffi

Backlund and Coleman

 

I think Lucic worked "reasonably well" with Toffi and Lindholm. 

I think we should try Hubey with Backs and Coleman

[pikey7883]

1 hour ago, redfire11 said:

What I see for pairings that have a beginning of good chemistry so far is;

Kadri Mangi Dude

Lindholm and Toffi

Backlund and Coleman

 

I think Lucic worked "reasonably well" with Toffi and Lindholm. 

I think we should try Hubey with Backs and Coleman

I agree and said a similar thing a while back. If you do that, you can probably try Ruzie with Toff and Lindy. 
Which allows us to keep the 4th line together. Looch-Rooney-Ritchie/Lewis

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:

Ruzie with Toff and Lindy. 

I do agree with this but have NOT been convinced with Ruzie on the wing? (also give us a 2nd center on that line) Toff and Lindy need someone with size to dig that puck out of the corners. I wonder if Ritchie could UP his game.(a big ? mark) Lucic has stepped up a little.

[MP5029]

13 hours ago, redfire11 said:

What I see for pairings that have a beginning of good chemistry so far is;

Kadri Mangi Dude

Lindholm and Toffi

Backlund and Coleman

 

I think Lucic worked "reasonably well" with Toffi and Lindholm. 

I think we should try Hubey with Backs and Coleman

and this is the foundation to build

around…I’d like to see Huby with Kadri and Manji with Lindy, if there is any chemistry that way it would be a better balance. Gut feeling is that 

 

Huby/Kadri/?
Manji/Ljndholm/Toffoil 

 

forms the back Bone of the top 2 lines…

 

3rd is fine as is, it’s been a reliable line and seems to also “click” fairly well.

 

Dube/Backlund/Coleman 

 

4th has been pretty good too, with Lucic/Ruzi or Rooney/Lewis 

 

it’s clear that the RW is our major issue…maybe A Haniifin for Nylander trade makes sense, but probably only after Kylington is back and up to speed…that could be a while though and I’m not sure our depth can bridge the gap till then.

 

[tmac70]

I often thought of sending a Dman such as Hanifin out to get someone back, however who takes his spot. We all feel or belive that we are deep on D and could fill the spot within, but with who? Mackey is not as good enough to fill the spot and Valimki is gone, was not good enough, we also have no clue what or when Kylington is coming back. Are we weak at RW yes. The current issue I see is Hubie has not be any where near what we need and Weegar has been having difficulty fitting in. With that said, Kadri is a bright spot, Dube and Mags are looking good but in reality need to start putting pucks in the net. Toffoli is a shooter and what I see with him is the same issue we have with Backs, he has bben the puck carrier shoots the puck misses the net and opposition is gone the other way, one and done. Cross is right in that we have no one that can carry the puck over the line force the D back like Gaudeau did. Really how many odd man rushes have we had this season, very few. In the Kraken game we allowed 4 in the last period alone. Last season we scored off the rush or JG skated around and created a breakdown in the D to open either a player or a shooting lane for himself, this is what Hubie is suppose to do and is capable of. IMHO once he finds his comfort level he will be fine. He and Weegar remind of two kids that no rules and free rein to do what they wanted to now being responsible with details which is causing them to over think and under react. There is an old saying in that you can't play scared, and this is what I am seeing right now. It may not be the same but if your tenative in your actions it will create mistakes. As for a trade for a RW outside of a 1st and a prospect we don't have anything we can afford to part with to do a high impact deal to get the target we need. 

[JTech780]

Right now I am less worrried about the offence and more worried about the defence and the goaltending. The goaltending has not been great to start the season, that being said there has been way too many break downs in the defensive zone so far this year. I am sure Sutter will shore that up, but that would be the first concern.

 

To me it looks like they are running around too much. They need to be aggressive, but they have to have guys covering those spots and that isn’t happening right now.