2022 Offseason

[cross16]

19 hours ago, LouCifer said:

 

 

 

See the post above lol 😂

 

Barzal is a play-making C. He will circle the offensive zone and stick handle through defenders over and over, waiting for someone to get open for a snipe. Barzal won’t be getting $10.5M AAV to be our #2C behind Lindholm. I don’t subscribe to worrying about our cap space right now because 80% of our team’s contracts are up between this year and next. 

 

So we are comfortable with the idea of giving up a boatload in trade for 1 year of Barzal?

 

Because once you give him that qualifying offer your going to be in cap trouble. 

[conundrumed]

Just a thought...

Kravtsov for Valimaki.

Risk for risk. Both headed towards bust potentially. RW prospect they don't need for a D prospect we don't need?

I feel crappy for saying that about Vali, but he really hasn't bounced back at all. Fresh start for both.

It's a minor move. Both are holding little value. Trying to be the realist. Both are choked at their usage, I kind of like that attitude in a player.

Kravtsov didn't want to go to the A, I don't really blame him, the A lacks structure and skill.

He went to the KHL and put up 6/7/13pts in 19 reg. games and 7/3/10pts in 15 playoff games.

Again, I don't blame him at all for saying "Blockchain your AHL". It's a grunt league.

The K is a better league for him to develop and he produced decently at 22.

Just a question of if that offended the Rangers. Their D is porous.

Risk for risk.

I'd be okay with it. If he isn't ready, send him out on loan, not to the A.

The A isn't a very good league. We lost in the playoffs to a bunch of 30 yr olds.

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

So we are comfortable with the idea of giving up a boatload in trade for 1 year of Barzal?

 

Because once you give him that qualifying offer your going to be in cap trouble. 

If this is a vote, I'm not.

He's not even on my radar. Love the way he plays, but it's just not realistic and I'm not, firstly, giving up picks for Lucic/Mony cap dumps, Secondly, picks for Barzal.

I never want to see another draft like the 2022 one again.

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Just a thought...

Kravtsov for Valimaki.

Risk for risk. Both headed towards bust potentially. RW prospect they don't need for a D prospect we don't need?

I feel crappy for saying that about Vali, but he really hasn't bounced back at all. Fresh start for both.

It's a minor move. Both are holding little value. Trying to be the realist. Both are choked at their usage, I kind of like that attitude in a player.

Kravtsov didn't want to go to the A, I don't really blame him, the A lacks structure and skill.

He went to the KHL and put up 6/7/13pts in 19 reg. games and 7/3/10pts in 15 playoff games.

Again, I don't blame him at all for saying "Blockchain your AHL". It's a grunt league.

The K is a better league for him to develop and he produced decently at 22.

Just a question of if that offended the Rangers. Their D is porous.

Risk for risk.

I'd be okay with it. If he isn't ready, send him out on loan, not to the A.

The A isn't a very good league. We lost in the playoffs to a bunch of 30 yr olds.

 

I think Valimaki is similar to "future considerations" at this point.  He's what you send a team like Vegas to take back $5M they are trying to shed.  I would consider trading him to EDM for Puljujarvi.  He would instantly be in their top 6.  Not sure I want to help them out, because given a chance in a new environment, he might flourish.  Even so, their D is still the worst part of the team.  

 

From what I hear, they aren't even being offered a 2nd anymore.  It's a shame, since he should be able to do something.  EDM is just the wrong team for him.  You ain't one of McD's faves, you get bottom 6 at best.  The one year deal was just a feeble attempt to save the asset.  I think Sutter could fix him.  

 

And yes, I would consider the trade you mentioned as well.  

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think Valimaki is similar to "future considerations" at this point.  He's what you send a team like Vegas to take back $5M they are trying to shed.  I would consider trading him to EDM for Puljujarvi.  He would instantly be in their top 6.  Not sure I want to help them out, because given a chance in a new environment, he might flourish.  Even so, their D is still the worst part of the team.  

 

From what I hear, they aren't even being offered a 2nd anymore.  It's a shame, since he should be able to do something.  EDM is just the wrong team for him.  You ain't one of McD's faves, you get bottom 6 at best.  The one year deal was just a feeble attempt to save the asset.  I think Sutter could fix him.  

 

And yes, I would consider the trade you mentioned as well.  

My only question, whytf would we make a deal with Edmonton? lol

But honestly, I'm not enamoured with Puljujarvi at all. Stats be damned.

[sak22]

11 hours ago, LouCifer said:

Well. I have another hot take for y’all. 😏 Buckle up because this one is interesting, and the players included could vary and still work for both teams. 

 

To BOS

Lucic @ $5.25M for 1 season UFA + Toffoli @ $4.25M for 2 seasons = $9.5M cap

 

To CGY

Hall @ $6M for 3 seasons + Zacha @ $3.5M for 1 season UFA = $9.5M cap

 

- Boston is currently $2.242M over the cap.
- The trade above is an exact swap of cap, so it doesn’t help Boston’s cap and we arguably get the better players

so We could either:

A ) CGY Retains $1M on Looch to give BOS some cap relief. Or,

B ) BOS adds Trent Frederick to the trade ($1M, RFA after this season, fights, and hasn’t really found his place/role in Boston) plus BOS has 1 too many contracts, so trading an extra player to us helps their cap AND helps them become 23-man roster compliant. Or,

C ) let’s say BOS doesn’t want to give up Zacha even though they just walked him into free agency after this season with the contract they gave him, so maybe they’d prefer to send us Hall + DeBrusk (who I don’t care much for) which equals $10M cap, saving Boston $500k. Or,

D ) maybe BOS would prefer to send us Hall + Craig Smith + Trent Frederick which saves them $600k. 

One look at cap friendly or Boston media and there seems to be growing momentum to have Looch return. Taylor Hall, product of Calgary, brings so much speed to the lineup, would likely mesh extremely well with Hubie and Lindy on the RW, would have the opportunity to stick it to Edmonton, and I’d expect he’d be willing to waive his NMC for the opportunity to come home and play on Calgary’s new #1 line. 
 

BT. Get on this! Time to start bringing some home grown talent home. 

Much like here and everywhere, fans and media don't call the shots and nostalgic feelings because of wedding photo's won't change that Lucic has negative trade value.  Boston as is don't need to worry about the cap right now, Marchand is expected to be out until December, McAvoy and Grezlcyk are also expected to miss significant time to start.  Just cause Krejci is back doesn't mean people actually think that he can reunite with Lucic and return to their old days, Zacha at least could have some upside.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

My only question, whytf would we make a deal with Edmonton? lol

But honestly, I'm not enamoured with Puljujarvi at all. Stats be damned.

 

I would have to hold my nose.  I have watched him play and see a player that nobody wants to bother passing to.  He's got a heavy shot, goes to the net and can check.  If he plays with McD, he's not supposed to shoot, just be in the right spot to clean it up.  On the other side, he seems to lack IQ.  

 

If there was another example of a player that a team can't afford and lack depth at D, a Valimaki trade makes sense.  The player coming makes more than Valimaki.  It offsets the lack of player they are getting back.  Makes more sense than waiving him, even if we don't lose him.  He will get passed by high end prospects down there too.  Or he will just not report when nobody picks him off waivers.

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Much like here and everywhere, fans and media don't call the shots and nostalgic feelings because of wedding photo's won't change that Lucic has negative trade value.  Boston as is don't need to worry about the cap right now, Marchand is expected to be out until December, McAvoy and Grezlcyk are also expected to miss significant time to start.  Just cause Krejci is back doesn't mean people actually think that he can reunite with Lucic and return to their old days, Zacha at least could have some upside.

 

No team is looking at Lucic as being the old Looch.  If they are interested it's because they feared him whenever they played against him.  That's his value.  Would BOS trade Smith for Lucic at 50%?  Who really knows.  Cap neutral deal.

[conundrumed]

15 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Much like here and everywhere, fans and media don't call the shots and nostalgic feelings because of wedding photo's won't change that Lucic has negative trade value.  Boston as is don't need to worry about the cap right now, Marchand is expected to be out until December, McAvoy and Grezlcyk are also expected to miss significant time to start.  Just cause Krejci is back doesn't mean people actually think that he can reunite with Lucic and return to their old days, Zacha at least could have some upside.

Quoted for both complete agreement and elegance.lol

[sak22]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

No team is looking at Lucic as being the old Looch.  If they are interested it's because they feared him whenever they played against him.  That's his value.  Would BOS trade Smith for Lucic at 50%?  Who really knows.  Cap neutral deal.

Cap neutral but one had 36 points the other had 21.  Better odds would be Foligno, but he has a large no-trade list.  You are trying to create a need with him by saying the fear factor, but how important is that to you if it leaves the Flames with nothing in that regard once he's gone.  Again I've said all summer and there is nothing I've read on here, or anywhere else to convince me that Lucic will have anything but a negative trade value.

[LouCifer]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I totally agree..

I was of the mindset heading to the offseason to sign Johnny and move Chucky for a haul to spread the talent around 

I had mentioned here earlier had we signed both , then it wouid have been felt across the roster ..crippled for at least a season until money opened up. 

The cost of having to move out Monahan and Lucic.. likely no Zadorov, possibly moving Kyllington..  and a serious risk of having to move Mangiapane..

I still can't believe it was Gubrandson that got paid and Zadorov came back . I expected that in reverse . Good on Gubby tho..

You and I both were vocal about this. I’m really happy the way it all turned out this off-season. 👍🏻😁

[sak22]

 

Kadri, Bellows, Dobson and Romanov.  Thats it.

[LouCifer]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

So we are comfortable with the idea of giving up a boatload in trade for 1 year of Barzal? Because once you give him that qualifying offer your going to be in cap trouble. 

Why does this keep coming up? I’m going to have to start quoting my old posts… but for one final time:

 

You don’t make the trade if you don’t get to talk to the player and agent first, and discuss what an extension looks like. 

The $10M QO is only applicable if a new contract isn’t signed. The new contract can be less than the $10M QO. 
 

If Barzal won’t agree to an extension, you don’t make the trade. 
 

Good?
 

 

[pikey7883]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Just a thought...

Kravtsov for Valimaki.

Risk for risk. Both headed towards bust potentially. RW prospect they don't need for a D prospect we don't need?

I feel crappy for saying that about Vali, but he really hasn't bounced back at all. Fresh start for both.

It's a minor move. Both are holding little value. Trying to be the realist. Both are choked at their usage, I kind of like that attitude in a player.

Kravtsov didn't want to go to the A, I don't really blame him, the A lacks structure and skill.

He went to the KHL and put up 6/7/13pts in 19 reg. games and 7/3/10pts in 15 playoff games.

Again, I don't blame him at all for saying "Blockchain your AHL". It's a grunt league.

The K is a better league for him to develop and he produced decently at 22.

Just a question of if that offended the Rangers. Their D is porous.

Risk for risk.

I'd be okay with it. If he isn't ready, send him out on loan, not to the A.

The A isn't a very good league. We lost in the playoffs to a bunch of 30 yr olds.

I don’t think Kratsov is available, sounds like they’re going to give him every chance to be in the top 9. I wonder if we could get Gauthier? For Valimaki.

He has the speed to keep up with Hubie, and has a good shot, and a big body, which Sutter would like. (He tried Ritchie with JG and Mony).

Hubie - Lindholm - Gauthier

Mang - Backs - Coleman

Pelltier - Mony - Toffoli (hopefully Pelltier can find those two more often than not, manage their minutes closely)

Rooney - Rozie - Lewis (sun in Looch ever once in a while as needed)

 

 

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Why does this keep coming up? I’m going to have to start quoting my old posts… but for one final time:

 

You don’t make the trade if you don’t get to talk to the player and agent first, and discuss what an extension looks like. 

The $10M QO is only applicable if a new contract isn’t signed. The new contract can be less than the $10M QO. 
 

If Barzal won’t agree to an extension, you don’t make the trade. 
 

Good?
 

 

 

What is it you think he will sign for?

 

I'm well aware of all of that but the point is he's going to be expensive on a long term deal (probably 8-9mill AAV) and I don't think the Flames can afford him and Lindholm. Your picking one or the other IMO and then I question is you are making your team better, especially giving the likely high acquisition cost. 

 

It's not about worrying about a qualifying offer it's pointing out that a Barzal trade doesn't really feel viable for more reasons than just his qualifying offer. 

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, LouCifer said:

Liking the positivity here JJ 😊 
I agree that a contract like this for Gaudreau or Tkachuk, or… could you imagine BOTH 👀 would have 100% crippled our team. 
I may be in the minority here, but, I feel Hubie and Weegs made us a better team. 

 

 

Positivity has always been a strength of mine

[conundrumed]

16 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Positivity has always been a strength of mine

 

16 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Positivity has always been a strength of mine

 

16 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Positivity has always been a strength of mine

 

17 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Positivity has always been a strength of mine

 

17 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Positivity has always been a strength of mine

Repeat after me.lol

[JTech780]

If Kadri does sign with the Islanders, which I am all but expecting at this point, a guy that I wouldn’t mind targeting is Anthony Beauvillier.

 

He can play either wing, lots of talent and compete there. I just think there is more there than what he has shown with the Islanders and I would like to see what Sutter can do with him.

 

I am curious if we look at bringing in Stastny still. I think he would be a very solid pick up and probably wouldn’t be looking for much of a contract. He just seems to be the type of player that coaches love.

 

The other guy that would make some sense if Phil Kessel, we have a need on the RW, and he can still play. Just wonder how he would fit in with Sutter lol. Sutter is all about preparation, and Kessel is all about hot dogs. 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

So we are comfortable with the idea of giving up a boatload in trade for 1 year of Barzal?

 

Because once you give him that qualifying offer your going to be in cap trouble. 

 

Yes.

 

The window is only open for so long.  Get the final pieces at whatever the cost.

[sak22]

11 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Yes.

 

The window is only open for so long.  Get the final pieces at whatever the cost.

I was onboard for pay whatever for Eichel last year, and that was a guy with major question marks surrounding health.  Just when healthy I still saw Eichel as a top 10 C in the league, Barzal can command the same price tag, but I would honestly put him more in the 20-30 ranking for C's, and I don't think players of that caliber are a "whatever the cost" acquisition.

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I was onboard for pay whatever for Eichel last year, and that was a guy with major question marks surrounding health.  Just when healthy I still saw Eichel as a top 10 C in the league, Barzal can command the same price tag, but I would honestly put him more in the 20-30 ranking for C's, and I don't think players of that caliber are a "whatever the cost" acquisition.

 

I've got Barzal in the 10-12 range.  He's a game changer.  Also, "whatever the cost" of course means we don't trade Lindholm or anyone who is ready to go on the next run with us.  We're talking any prospect and it's not exactly a studded cast.  No blue chippers.  Just a bunch of depth players.

[sak22]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

I've got Barzal in the 10-12 range.  He's a game changer.  Also, "whatever the cost" of course means we don't trade Lindholm or anyone who is ready to go on the next run with us.  We're talking any prospect and it's not exactly a studded cast.  No blue chippers.  Just a bunch of depth players.

I don't watch him a lot, but I generally feel game changers should be at or around a P/PG, he's at 0.81 since his rookie year.  That's about 30th in the league for C's that have played roughly the same amount of games for that time period.  Not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade, but I'd keep expectations in check if he was an elite player he should put up elite numbers regardless of the coach.

[JTech780]

Solid add on a PTO. Once was a really highly touted prospect, but injuries have really derailed his career.

 

Probably a depth guy at this point, but if he can find his way again he could be a solid find.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Solid add on a PTO. Once was a really highly touted prospect, but injuries have really derailed his career.

 

Probably a depth guy at this point, but if he can find his way again he could be a solid find.

 

We are going to have to push guys in the AHL to higher levels.

I'm assuming that we can sign him to a contract and then send him down.

Or does it make more sense to sign him to an AHL contract if he is just okay?

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We are going to have to push guys in the AHL to higher levels.

I'm assuming that we can sign him to a contract and then send him down.

Or does it make more sense to sign him to an AHL contract if he is just okay?

I would think at this point he is probably a guy who gets an AHL deal, if he gets signed, and let him show what he can do and if he can stay healthy.