2022 Offseason

[LouCifer]

20 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

I wonder now that we have Huberdeau locked up if we could entice PLD to come to Calgary rather than seeking a trade to Montreal. It’s gonna cost us though. I was playing with the numbers on cap friendly. We would need to include Monahan in the deal for numbers to work. I was thinking Mony, Phillips, Mackey, Coronato and (2) 1sts which is painful but adding a young center like PLD could be worth it rather than someone like Kadri.

Also I’m gonna beat to death Valimaki for Roy in Vegas

Two scoring Lines of

huberdeau-pld-toffee

mang-Lindy-roy

then a shutdown line

dube-backs-coles

then you have two options on the fourth

heavy line Looch-Ruzie/Rooney-lewis

speed and energy Pelltier-Ruzie-rooney

 

 

I admit I considered PLD for a hot second, then I remembered I don’t want that kind of drama and character on the Flames. I wouldn’t touch PLD at all. 
 

I do like Roy as a target, I wonder if Schieffle may still be available, Stastny would be a savvy move if we can acquire another impact forward (I’m jonesing for Kane @ 50%)

[phoenix66]

7 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I admit I considered PLD for a hot second, then I remembered I don’t want that kind of drama and character on the Flames. I wouldn’t touch PLD at all. 
 

I do like Roy as a target, I wonder if Schieffle may still be available, Stastny would be a savvy move if we can acquire another impact forward (I’m jonesing for Kane @ 50%)

Omg.. if we could add Kane on that top line ? At 50% we'd have to move Looch . But that top line wouid be total destruction 

The overall price wouid be high..even with him being a one year rental 

 

And I am starting to like Stastny as a great one year add . If you can get him on a decent deal 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I admit I considered PLD for a hot second, then I remembered I don’t want that kind of drama and character on the Flames. I wouldn’t touch PLD at all. 
 

I do like Roy as a target, I wonder if Schieffle may still be available, Stastny would be a savvy move if we can acquire another impact forward (I’m jonesing for Kane @ 50%)

 

No point with PLD, now we know his intent.  WPG is ending up losing the 2 overall and soon the 3 overall.  I thought we were bad off.  

 

I think Roy has to be a massive underpay.  Not giving VGK par value, they can suck it.  Valimaki would be good value for them and it's not as bad as Patches for considerations.  

 

I am thinking that Hanifin is probably the most valuable trade asset we have, so if we can't swing anything from Vegas, sell Hanifin for the highest bidder.  Cheap, effective, 2 years left.  It's a risk, but we need to think about extending Lindholm.  Need to be cycling players.  I don't know we have a long range replacement for Tanev, but Hanifin is not it.  Easier to replace a shutdown guy, I guess.

[The_Tribal Chief]

after the signings i was listening we only have like a mil in cap space not much is being signed unless we trade something out

[travel_dude]

Just now, The_Snowbear said:

after the signings i was listening we only have like a mil in cap space not much is being signed unless we trade something out

 

Not quite true.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flames

 

Obviously, once Ruzie signs that drops from 2.7M.  And we only have 12F on that roster.  To your point though, we have enough to sign a UFA right now.  Rozie is going to be cheap and doesn't have to be signed right this minute.  But, it's obvious to me that Valimaki is the most expesive of the 3 bottom D that we have.  And Hanifin has the highest value of the D we are willing to trade.  

 

I'm only interested in moving Dube if that is part of a higher level C/RW coming back.  I fear that he might be heading the same direction as Bennett.  Too good for 4th line, not able to improve where he is.  He was one of the few last year that didn't have a career season. 

[The_Tribal Chief]

yeah but not enough to be signing kadri like before

[pikey7883]

11 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I admit I considered PLD for a hot second, then I remembered I don’t want that kind of drama and character on the Flames. I wouldn’t touch PLD at all. 
 

I do like Roy as a target, I wonder if Schieffle may still be available, Stastny would be a savvy move if we can acquire another impact forward (I’m jonesing for Kane @ 50%)

I know that PLD could come with some drama. But I feel like the Jets dressing room was more of the problem than him. With guys like Scheifele and Wheeler both saying they would be fine being traded speaks to a bigger problem. The coach quit, Stastny said it was one of the worst rooms he had been in.

I feel like he could really turn a corner playing with Huberdeau. They’re both big bodies who can go to the dirty areas as well as high skill plays. It would give them both the French connection for each other. And actually a guy like Roy might turn into a beast playing with them. 
I think a PLD extension might look like $8 x    8 years which is better than what Barzal is gonna cost. That was my only reasoning.

[pikey7883]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not quite true.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flames

 

Obviously, once Ruzie signs that drops from 2.7M.  And we only have 12F on that roster.  To your point though, we have enough to sign a UFA right now.  Rozie is going to be cheap and doesn't have to be signed right this minute.  But, it's obvious to me that Valimaki is the most expesive of the 3 bottom D that we have.  And Hanifin has the highest value of the D we are willing to trade.  

 

I'm only interested in moving Dube if that is part of a higher level C/RW coming back.  I fear that he might be heading the same direction as Bennett.  Too good for 4th line, not able to improve where he is.  He was one of the few last year that didn't have a career season. 

I have been scouring teams rosters for an improvement using Hannifin and the only logical one leads me back to Chychrun. If it cost us Dube, Hannifin, and Coronato for Chych and Crouse then that’s where we go. But I can’t put another trade together around Hannifin where we upgrade our team (without adding more picks and prospects).

[robrob74]

39 minutes ago, pikey7883 said:

I have been scouring teams rosters for an improvement using Hannifin and the only logical one leads me back to Chychrun. If it cost us Dube, Hannifin, and Coronato for Chych and Crouse then that’s where we go. But I can’t put another trade together around Hannifin where we upgrade our team (without adding more picks and prospects).

we'd have to add I think. 
 

what is Chychrun worth alone?

 

what is crouse worth alone? 
 

Chychrun about what Tkachuk was worth? Same or more? I dunno if less? 
 

crouse isn't Tkachuk but is probably worth a fair bit. 
 

Dube has been  underachieving so I'm not sure other teams will prize him as much. Other teams fans and radio guys are like Mangiapane is a nothing player. I get they're not GMs but I wonder if we prize our players higher than other teams think they'd be worth. 
 

Hanifin is good and good value, and coronato would be the other prize, but unproven so far. Is he worth that much?

[pikey7883]

14 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

we'd have to add I think. 
 

what is Chychrun worth alone?

 

what is crouse worth alone? 
 

Chychrun about what Tkachuk was worth? Same or more? I dunno if less? 
 

crouse isn't Tkachuk but is probably worth a fair bit. 
 

Dube has been  underachieving so I'm not sure other teams will prize him as much. Other teams fans and radio guys are like Mangiapane is a nothing player. I get they're not GMs but I wonder if we prize our players higher than other teams think they'd be worth. 
 

Hanifin is good and good value, and coronato would be the other prize, but unproven so far. Is he worth that much?

I heard an interview with Bill Armstrong yesterday, and he said that they’re building a strong farm system and they have the luxury of being patient with their prospects as they don’t need a star to fill their seats. So I think someone like Coronato would hold value to them. 
Dube and Crouse could be close to a 1 for 1, Chych is better than Hannifin and maybe costs us as a 1st as well.

If it’s similar to the Tkachuk deal 

Then it’s Hannifin, Dube, Coronato and a 1st for Chych, but I would argue Coronato is a better prospect then Shwindt. And that’s how we get Crouse. But also BT cleaned up on that Trade and I think he is savvier than Armstrong. 

[LouCifer]

I’ve been on capfriendly for a few hours 😂 and I’d like your feedback. Each trade suggestion is a separate entity - however, combinations of them will fit under our cap still! 😁👍🏻🔥

 

Suggestion #1

To CGY - P.Kane @ 50% + sign Stastny @ $3.25 - $3.5 for one year. 

To CHI - Monahan, Valimaki, + Pick or Propect

Rationale: Gives us a C & RW. CHI only has 5 D signed for next season. They need D, we have excess. Kane won’t return as a UFA to a rebuilding CHI, however, MANY teams will want him this year and we have to compete with that. Mony gives them a young C to try out with no commitment. They could also flip him at the TDL for a greater return. Valimaki is a former 1st round pick. Throw a prospect or pick in the mix to give us the edge and compensate them more for the retained salary. I’d be willing to give them a pick for the 2023 draft, because having Kane in our lineup should increase the potential that the draft pick gets worse. 
 

Suggestion #2

To CGY - one of Smith $3.15m or Nosek $1.75 (Smith preferred) and both are UFA

To BOS - Lucic + (if Smith: add a prospect? if Nosek, we retain $1-2m Lucic salary)

 

Rationale: Alleviate Lucic’s cap hit. Boston may be entertaining getting the cup winning roster back together. 
 

Suggestion #3 - dependent on speaking with the agent first on a future contract

To CGY - Barzal + Martin 

To NYI - Hanifin + CGY 2023 1st 

 

Rationale: We get Barzal for our 2C, Martin as a cheap replacement face-puncher for Lucic. NYI: frees up > $4M cap, gets to sign Dobson and Kadri, locks up Hanifin for 2 seasons and avoids the Barzal QO and salary issue. 
 

Suggestion #4 

CGY re-signs Stone on D and Ritchie at F (Ritchie may be a whipping boy on this board, but he doesn’t get scored on when he’s on. His corsi and fenwick are incredible for a 4th liner. He can also face-punch middle weights and we can alternate him and Martin in and out of the lineup. 
 

Please give me some feedback here. 

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, The_Snowbear said:

yeah but not enough to be signing kadri like before

 

I think we have been out of the Kadri battle for some time.

We can't give him COL or pay him what NYI will ($7M minimum x 6).

 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I'm only interested in moving Dube if that is part of a higher level C/RW coming back.  I fear that he might be heading the same direction as Bennett.  Too good for 4th line, not able to improve where he is.  He was one of the few last year that didn't have a career season. 

But he did set career highs...18g/14a/32pts. We just need them to get higher.lol

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I’ve been on capfriendly for a few hours 😂 and I’d like your feedback. Each trade suggestion is a separate entity - however, combinations of them will fit under our cap still! 😁👍🏻🔥

 

 

Saving space on your post, LOL.

That's a lot of moving parts, but I asume you are not talking all of them.

Smith for Lucic makes sense and I would even make the caps equal on the trade.

Retained salary is really just retained cap; $1M actual left to pay.

 

The Kane trade doesn't do much for CHI.  I think they want a 1st and roster player.

I do like the player, but not unless he's willing to do a 3-4 year deal.

Can't be $10M either.

Otherwise expensive rental for what I think they are asking.

 

Barzal trade seems a bit light from our side.

You know we have to give him $10M next year, right?

But that would basically mean we win the summer.

2 top 3 C.  Two scoring lines.  Smith adds depth.

 

I think they sign Stone because he's NHL and can play with a moment notice.

Shouldn't be first choice, but he loves it here.

Waive him and not a big concern.

 

I will say this.  I am starting to have concerns about Dube.

Not his play as much as his link to the Hockey Canada crap.

All players from that team, guilty or innicent, are toxic just by association.

It's not fair to the kids that had nothing to do with it, but they are being painted with one brush.

Even if all he ends up doing is testifying, it's still a big distraction.

Not really sure if we should be proactive or let the dust settle. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

But he did set career highs...18g/14a/32pts. We just need them to get higher.lol

 

My bad, going from memory.

Career high yes, but not his best year pace wise.

Was at 35 point pace previous year.

 

He finished the season really strong, so I'm not sure if that was competition or figuring it out.

In his final 9 games, he scored 8 goals.

 

This is not trashing him, just more a question of progression.

[conundrumed]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Saving space on your post, LOL.

That's a lot of moving parts, but I asume you are not talking all of them.

Smith for Lucic makes sense and I would even make the caps equal on the trade.

Retained salary is really just retained cap; $1M actual left to pay.

 

The Kane trade doesn't do much for CHI.  I think they want a 1st and roster player.

I do like the player, but not unless he's willing to do a 3-4 year deal.

Can't be $10M either.

Otherwise expensive rental for what I think they are asking.

 

Barzal trade seems a bit light from our side.

You know we have to give him $10M next year, right?

But that would basically mean we win the summer.

2 top 3 C.  Two scoring lines.  Smith adds depth.

 

I think they sign Stone because he's NHL and can play with a moment notice.

Shouldn't be first choice, but he loves it here.

Waive him and not a big concern.

 

I will say this.  I am starting to have concerns about Dube.

Not his play as much as his link to the Hockey Canada crap.

All players from that team, guilty or innicent, are toxic just by association.

It's not fair to the kids that had nothing to do with it, but they are being painted with one brush.

Even if all he ends up doing is testifying, it's still a big distraction.

Not really sure if we should be proactive or let the dust settle. 

I'm not at all. It was in London so I'd be most concerned with Thomas and Formenton personally. Nothing says that all were Team Canada players. It was an awards banquet so likely a lot more players than just that team.

But if she was from London, I'd assume it was a Knights player that she liked...

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'm not at all. It was in London so I'd be most concerned with Thomas and Formenton personally. Nothing says that all were Team Canada players. It was an awards banquet so likely a lot more players than just that team.

But if she was from London, I'd assume it was a Knights player that she liked...

 

It's hard to tell.  They have focused on 8 from Team Canada, so you may be right about possible guys being named.  London Police didn't exactly handle it the right way.  I always felt that guys like Dube were more leaders than followers, with strong ethics.  It does seem that TC will be raked over the coals, right or wrong.  CHL maybe even more so.  

 

[conundrumed]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It's hard to tell.  They have focused on 8 from Team Canada, so you may be right about possible guys being named.  London Police didn't exactly handle it the right way.  I always felt that guys like Dube were more leaders than followers, with strong ethics.  It does seem that TC will be raked over the coals, right or wrong.  CHL maybe even more so.  

 

Westhead had reported this:

"Hockey Canada and the CHL were named as defendants in the case, as were eight unnamed CHL players “including but not limited to members of the Canada U20 Men’s Junior Hockey Team.” The hockey players are identified in the 18-page statement of claim as John Does 1-8".

 

The TC roster was 33 players. So the "not limited to" number could be 40? Okay 38. Kyrou and Makar weren't in London. But there is zero reason to treat everyone as guilty.

edit

This from the event announcement:

The two-day event features a star-studded gala where Canada’s national teams who have won gold at IIHF events throughout the season – be it the IIHF World Junior Championship, IIHF World Championship, or the men’s or women’s under-18 worlds – or at the Olympic and Paralympic Games in PyeongChang this coming February and March, are honoured.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Westhead had reported this:

"Hockey Canada and the CHL were named as defendants in the case, as were eight unnamed CHL players “including but not limited to members of the Canada U20 Men’s Junior Hockey Team.” The hockey players are identified in the 18-page statement of claim as John Does 1-8".

 

The TC roster was 33 players. So the "not limited to" number could be 40? Okay 38. Kyrou and Makar weren't in London. But there is zero reason to treat everyone as guilty.

 

Guilt and guilt by association have similar impact.  The only other thing I would say is that you don't have to be part of the group that allegedly did anything to be part of the problem.  Knowing what happened from the bragging and not doing anything like speaking up.  Maybe it was just the Knights team that really knew.  But I do think that everyone from TC will get a call to testify.

 

I didn't really want to litigate this in a thread, just pointing out that one of our players was part of the team under scrutiny.  It's not fair to them if they did nothing wrong in any way.  But it's the reality of the cancel culture and the way these things unfold.  

[robrob74]

36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Guilt and guilt by association have similar impact.  The only other thing I would say is that you don't have to be part of the group that allegedly did anything to be part of the problem.  Knowing what happened from the bragging and not doing anything like speaking up.  Maybe it was just the Knights team that really knew.  But I do think that everyone from TC will get a call to testify.

 

I didn't really want to litigate this in a thread, just pointing out that one of our players was part of the team under scrutiny.  It's not fair to them if they did nothing wrong in any way.  But it's the reality of the cancel culture and the way these things unfold.  

i don't believe it's cancel culture. I just think people are asking to not be hurt by others anymore. It comes out aggressive but it's because the act of hurting is aggressive. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

i don't believe it's cancel culture. I just think people are asking to not be hurt by others anymore. It comes out aggressive but it's because the act of hurting is aggressive. 

 

Look that may have come out wrong.  I am talking about the reactions like cancelling funding for sport, referring to it as toxic masculinity and painting the entire hockey world in a bad light.  They have problems.  Maybe even jocks that think they own the world.  Maybe even systemic like racism.  Get the the bottom of it and make changes to combat it.

 

Many are calling for sport to have all funding cut.  Women's hockey being impacted by these possible decisions.  That's not exactly constructive.

[LouCifer]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

The Kane trade doesn't do much for CHI.  I think they want a 1st and roster player.

I do like the player, but not unless he's willing to do a 3-4 year deal. Can't be $10M either.

Kane is a UFA, and I think my offer satisfies the criteria you identify in your post

1. Valimaki is a first rounder, and CHI only has 5 D signed for next season. Valimaki isn’t going to ruin their chances for Bedard. 
2. Monahan is a roster player. Satisfies Kane’s (and potentially Toews departure) and he’s 27. 
3. The pick/prospect satisfies retained salary. 
 

If BT can speak to Kane’s agents about signing a new deal with us, the cost would go up. But I’m not sure I’m interested in Kane on a long term deal. 

 

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Barzal trade seems a bit light from our side. You know we have to give him $10M next year, right? But that would basically mean we win the summer.

2 top 3 C.  Two scoring lines.  Smith adds depth.

I see it a little light as well, but that’s intentional. NYI needs to clear cap space to sign Dobson and Kadri, so they can’t take back much $ in the trade. The other side of it is that - and this is my gut feeling - NYI and Barzal are apart regarding him Re-signing with them. If they can get 2 years guaranteed of Noah Hanifin and a 1st round pick, instead of 1 season of Barzal (Hanifin and Barzal are the same age by the way, and Hanifin is coming off a career year where Barzal is coming off a poor year). I think that looks attractive to NYI. 
 

Regarding the $10m, I stipulated that the trade would be contingent on BT speaking with Barzal’s agent to determine if there’s interest in a long term deal. If so, the $10m QO can go out the window if we sign him to a $7-8m AAV with term. The QO (correct me if I’m wrong) is only $10m if a new contract isn’t reached. We avoid that by inquiring first if he’ll sign longer. Being a BC boy, a fan of the flames as a child, and idolizing Kane and Toews growing up, he may jump at the opportunity to come to Calgary long term. 
 

Right now NYI is in a holding pattern and no one is coming to help them sign Kadri. I think Lamoriello would definitely consider Hanifin and a 1st for Barzal, especially if he is aware Re-signing him is going to be problematic, Because this trade turns into:

Barzal to CGY for Kadri, Dobson, Hanifin, and a 1st. 
I think it’s tough to turn that down. 
 

 

[robrob74]

50 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Look that may have come out wrong.  I am talking about the reactions like cancelling funding for sport, referring to it as toxic masculinity and painting the entire hockey world in a bad light.  They have problems.  Maybe even jocks that think they own the world.  Maybe even systemic like racism.  Get the the bottom of it and make changes to combat it.

 

Many are calling for sport to have all funding cut.  Women's hockey being impacted by these possible decisions.  That's not exactly constructive.

i agree. Sport is supposed to be safe and fun and about teaching collaboration. I don't think funding needs to be cut either, but the players and big guys need to know crap doesn't fly. It's a process. Have they come a long way since Theo and Kennedy? I hope so. 
 

problem with some, they've just never been told not to do that crap and you're right... some might think they own the world. Hope this is a giant leap for the good.

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

i agree. Sport is supposed to be safe and fun and about teaching collaboration. I don't think funding needs to be cut either, but the players and big guys need to know crap doesn't fly. It's a process. Have they come a long way since Theo and Kennedy? I hope so. 
 

problem with some, they've just never been told not to do that crap and you're right... some might think they own the world. Hope this is a giant leap for the good.

 

I think I will leave it there.  Hero worship blinds people to the reality. 

[Thebrewcrew]

As of right now, the Flames have a favourable cap situation, going forward.

 

Only Huberdeau, Markstrom, Coleman, Andersson and Mangiapane have more than 2yrs of term. The Flames have flexibility, which is what you want.

 

That flexibility is going to disappear rather quickly. Whether you agree with it or not, this team is all-in.

 

I believe that they're going to re-sign Weegar. It makes a lot of sense for the Flames. They don't have any impactful RHD in the pipeline. Tanev is 33 this season, the Flames will have a RHD need very soon. It's going to be a costly extension, it could be anywhere from 6-8+. There's an age disparity, but he's outproduced Sergachev the past three seasons and Sergachev just signed a deal for 64m. This is a tough one to pinpoint where it lands, but I think the Flames get it done.

 

Priority #1 next offseason should be Elias Lindholm. A Selke finalist that can score you 30-40 goals will be handsomely compensated. It's not a stretch to see him getting 9-10 on an 8yr extension. The Flames finally have a #1C and he seems to love living in Calgary.

 

Then you've got Hanifin. He had a fantastic 21/22, the best he's looked as a pro. I don't worry about the American factor, he seems to like Calgary, he pitched Kevin Rooney on signing here. What worries me is what the contract could be. Like with Weegar, the D market has went crazy. The ask could be very high, which is why I think there's some logic to the idea of exploring a trade, specifically for a top 6 W. If CGY did opt for an extension, 8yrs for Hanifin is one you can feel ok about as he's still going to be a young player.

 

There's two, potentially three massive extensions on the horizon. The Flames are also going to need a top 6 C relatively soon, Backlund will be 35 when his deal is up. They also likely need a top 6 winger.