2022 Offseason

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

As of right now, the Flames have a favourable cap situation, going forward.

 

Only Huberdeau, Markstrom, Coleman, Andersson and Mangiapane have more than 2yrs of term. The Flames have flexibility, which is what you want.

 

That flexibility is going to disappear rather quickly. Whether you agree with it or not, this team is all-in.

 

I believe that they're going to re-sign Weegar. It makes a lot of sense for the Flames. They don't have any impactful RHD in the pipeline. Tanev is 33 this season, the Flames will have a RHD need very soon. It's going to be a costly extension, it could be anywhere from 6-8+. There's an age disparity, but he's outproduced Sergachev the past three seasons and Sergachev just signed a deal for 64m. This is a tough one to pinpoint where it lands, but I think the Flames get it done.

 

Priority #1 next offseason should be Elias Lindholm. A Selke finalist that can score you 30-40 goals will be handsomely compensated. It's not a stretch to see him getting 9-10 on an 8yr extension. The Flames finally have a #1C and he seems to love living in Calgary.

 

Then you've got Hanifin. He had a fantastic 21/22, the best he's looked as a pro. I don't worry about the American factor, he seems to like Calgary, he pitched Kevin Rooney on signing here. What worries me is what the contract could be. Like with Weegar, the D market has went crazy. The ask could be very high, which is why I think there's some logic to the idea of exploring a trade, specifically for a top 6 W. If CGY did opt for an extension, 8yrs for Hanifin is one you can feel ok about as he's still going to be a young player.

 

There's two, potentially three massive extensions on the horizon. The Flames are also going to need a top 6 C relatively soon, Backlund will be 35 when his deal is up. They also likely need a top 6 winger.

 

Weegar extension makes lots of sense as you've stated.  We don't have reliable RHS RD coming up the pipeline. Drafting one takes 4 years to develop.  RHS RD are hard to find in UFA. If you've got one already, then lock them up long term.  Weegar can also play both sides.

 

LHS LD though, I would be careful about giving Hanifin 8 years.  We've got Kuznetsov and Poirier looking like top 4D in about 3 years.  Potentially one becomes legit top pair.

 

Meanwhile, Zadorov, Kylington, and Valimaki could prove to be cheaper long term 2nd pair LD options.  Hanifin could be moved easily in a couple years.

[Thebrewcrew]

15 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Weegar extension makes lots of sense as you've stated.  We don't have reliable RHS RD coming up the pipeline. Drafting one takes 4 years to develop.  RHS RD are hard to find in UFA. If you've got one already, then lock them up long term.  Weegar can also play both sides.

 

LHS LD though, I would be careful about giving Hanifin 8 years.  We've got Kuznetsov and Poirier looking like top 4D in about 3 years.  Potentially one becomes legit top pair.

 

Meanwhile, Zadorov, Kylington, and Valimaki could prove to be cheaper long term 2nd pair LD options.  Hanifin could be moved easily in a couple years.

Hanifin will have his age working in his favour, he's only gonna be 27 as a UFA. 

 

The Flames have a very deep blueline, but they also need a top 6 forward. BT essentially said on 960 he's happy with the goalies and D but looking at forwards. Hanifin will get you the best return, coming off his best season.

 

I look at a team like Washington, they're all in, having signed Kuemper and still having Ovi. They're paper-thin at LD, they've got Orlov and the young player Fehervary. Hanifin makes sense for them. Not far from home if you like that narrative. I'm not a huge Anthony Mantha fan but maybe you could get him from Washington. Would rather Tom Wilson, but doubt WSH does that.

[conundrumed]

16 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Weegar extension makes lots of sense as you've stated.  We don't have reliable RHS RD coming up the pipeline. Drafting one takes 4 years to develop.  RHS RD are hard to find in UFA. If you've got one already, then lock them up long term.  Weegar can also play both sides.

 

LHS LD though, I would be careful about giving Hanifin 8 years.  We've got Kuznetsov and Poirier looking like top 4D in about 3 years.  Potentially one becomes legit top pair.

 

Meanwhile, Zadorov, Kylington, and Valimaki could prove to be cheaper long term 2nd pair LD options.  Hanifin could be moved easily in a couple years.

Weegar plays both sides well. Methinks you haven’t seen him enough and isn’t a brand name being hidden in FLA.

I honestly can’t believe FLA did this. 

There goes 2 of your best guys at pushing the puck north.

I’ll parrot, easily our best dman on either side. We wanted Chychrun, we easily got a comparable. I’d be up in arms as a FLA fan. This isn’t going to go well for them.

[travel_dude]

48 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Weegar extension makes lots of sense as you've stated.  We don't have reliable RHS RD coming up the pipeline. Drafting one takes 4 years to develop.  RHS RD are hard to find in UFA. If you've got one already, then lock them up long term.  Weegar can also play both sides.

 

LHS LD though, I would be careful about giving Hanifin 8 years.  We've got Kuznetsov and Poirier looking like top 4D in about 3 years.  Potentially one becomes legit top pair.

 

Meanwhile, Zadorov, Kylington, and Valimaki could prove to be cheaper long term 2nd pair LD options.  Hanifin could be moved easily in a couple years.

 

Zaddy and Kylington will both be cheaper than a Hanifin extension.  Let's not get into the game of trying to trade him in his pending UFA year though.  I am inclined to trade Hanifin sooner than later, as we have other pressing needs.  Kylington can improve.  Zaddy is more of a 3/4 than a 5/6.  If Tanev was injured, we have Weegar as an option to replace him.  Refill with Mackey and Meloche on 3rd pair as needed.  

 

It's risky, but we didn't ask for a D just to hang onto everyone we have.  Whether they sneak through waivers, it's not a great way to use your assets.  They only get better by playing.  Valimaki probably only improves in the NHL, since the level of competition is better for him.  Not learning on the job, but learning how to look your best every night.  

 

SO, where I am at is trading Hanifin for a C.  Valimaki doesn't have the value and Kylington is not at his prime yet.  And will be cheaper in 2 years than a Hanifin extension.

[LouCifer]

49 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I look at a team like Washington, they're all in, having signed Kuemper and still having Ovi. They're paper-thin at LD, they've got Orlov and the young player Fehervary. Hanifin makes sense for them. Not far from home if you like that narrative. I'm not a huge Anthony Mantha fan but maybe you could get him from Washington. Would rather Tom Wilson, but doubt WSH does that.

Hmm. 🤔 I never considered Wilson. He brings size, grit, and scoring ability. He’s also a RW that can play in the top 6. He has 2 years remaining just like Hanifin. But, 2 things irk me. 1: Can Wilson keep up the point totals? And 2: Wilson at over $5m per season gives me shades of Looch’s contract. If the points dry up, the contract gets ugly fast. Obviously Looch would have to be moved out if Wilson was coming in. 
 

I also feel Hanifin’s value can probably get us a better player than Wilson, like Barzal. But I do like the thought of Wilson… especially lining up against Evander Kane lol 😂

[Thebrewcrew]

7 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Hmm. 🤔 I never considered Wilson. He brings size, grit, and scoring ability. He’s also a RW that can play in the top 6. He has 2 years remaining just like Hanifin. But, 2 things irk me. 1: Can Wilson keep up the point totals? And 2: Wilson at over $5m per season gives me shades of Looch’s contract. If the points dry up, the contract gets ugly fast. Obviously Looch would have to be moved out if Wilson was coming in. 
 

I also feel Hanifin’s value can probably get us a better player than Wilson, like Barzal. But I do like the thought of Wilson… especially lining up against Evander Kane lol 😂

The term "unicorn" gets thrown around too often, but Wilson probably is. He's what most people think Josh Anderson is. He'll score 20+, tough as nails and drives opponents nuts. I don't think he's someone you'd look to extend though as he hits UFA at 30. But to be honest, I have a hard time seeing Washington moving him anyway. 

 

I also forgot, Wilson is having knee surgery and it's 6-8 month recovery. It's quite unlikely, which is why I think Mantha would be the more likely. Again, I'm not a big fan of him but he's got the tools. Just hasn't put it together frequently enough.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, LouCifer said:

 

I also feel Hanifin’s value can probably get us a better player than Wilson, like Barzal. But I do like the thought of Wilson… especially lining up against Evander Kane lol 😂

 

I wonder if BT plans to move Hanifin as soon as Weegar commits long term.

 

Hanifin had 10G 48pts for a career year.  He could possibly fool someone into thinking he's a legit #1 D.  His value is there.

[LouCifer]

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I wonder if BT plans to move Hanifin as soon as Weegar commits long term.

 

Hanifin had 10G 48pts for a career year.  He could possibly fool someone into thinking he's a legit #1 D.  His value is there.

This is exactly what I’m thinking. 

[bosn111]

I have never been on the “need to trade Hanifin” side of things and I am still not. Over the past few years fans have said to trade Hanifin because we have Valimaki who will be better anyways, and now Kylington will apparently improve more than Hanifin while costing less to re-sign. This all coming along with the idea that Hanifin has the higher trade value and apparently the fact that Kylington and Hanifin are the same age, Hanifin showed growth and improvement last season and D tend to take longer to peak.

 

So Valimaki couldn’t even hold a spot on the Flames and got outplayed on the Heat by other D, has not shown he can beat out Kylington, Zadorov or even Mackey let alone Hanifin. 
 

Hanifin does make bone head mistakes sometimes but he is much more consistent than Kylington. He plays more minutes and in more situations so he has more opportunities for the mistakes to be amplified. With Weegar now able to eat more minutes, Hanifin can focus less on being the main guy and just play.

 

If Kylington shows more improvement and plays better than Hanifin, then how can any reasonable person say that he will be easier / cheaper to re-sign? Both UFA and able to test the market… Market based on stats so the better stats get the better contract. 
 

Now I am not against trading Hanifin. He likely brings back value in a trade, and with Weegar able to play top line LD, and Kylington able to play middle pair, that makes it easier to move him, though not necessary. He would need to bring back significant pieces (plural) or at least 1 equal value player for the trade to make sense.

 

Hanifin is currently better than Kylington, so we are currently better having Hanifin above Kylington. This may change, but it may not. Many people point to the late season regression from Kylington after a hot start. We also need to consider the Tanev effect. How much of Kylington’s success actually came from playing with Tanev?

 

Valimaki at 23 could still show dramatic improvement, but he has fallen down the depth chart. With Kuznetsov, Poirier and Solovyov now on his heels, will he get passed further?

 

We still have questions on D, but these are now good questions to have rather than what we had in the past.

[LouCifer]

Hey @bosn111, I hear you. I’m not the biggest Hani-fan, and getting Weegar (who I’ve wanted to trade for in the past) makes me feel much more comfortable to explore trading him to improve our forward group. Keeping Hanifin makes our D more formidable no doubt, I just don’t think Mony or Lucic is going to get us an impact forward in return; hence why I look at Hanifin. 
 

However, while I do tend to post dramatic trades, I’m considering one more on the frugal side this time, with upside. 
 

To MTL

Valimaki

 

To CGY

Dvorak

 

Perhaps it takes a little more than Valimaki to acquire Dvorak, but, MTL traded D prospect Romanov away at the draft and could be looking for a replacement, hence Valimaki. Valimaki’s salary comes in lower than Dvorak, and Dvorak appears to be mis-cast now in MTL’s lineup. While Dvorak doesn’t hold a candle to a Barzal or Kadri, he does have upside and he is quite comparable to Backlund - I’m thinking, Backlund replacement. See here:

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_compare.php?players[]=1859&players[]=4194&period=2021-2022%3AR%3A99
 

[Thebrewcrew]

It would be nice to see Phillips get an opportunity. 

 

Unfortunately, for him, the Flames have been an incredibly healthy team the past two seasons. Given his skilleset, I think it'd take a top 9 winger to miss time for that opportunity to arise. Right now I think he's behind Pelletier and Schwindt in terms of "next man up". 

 

Or he needs to have a camp that leaves management no choice but have him on the team. Something like Kylington did last year.

[MP5029]

39 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

Hey @bosn111, I hear you. I’m not the biggest Hani-fan, and getting Weegar (who I’ve wanted to trade for in the past) makes me feel much more comfortable to explore trading him to improve our forward group. Keeping Hanifin makes our D more formidable no doubt, I just don’t think Mony or Lucic is going to get us an impact forward in return; hence why I look at Hanifin. 
 

However, while I do tend to post dramatic trades, I’m considering one more on the frugal side this time, with upside. 
 

To MTL

Valimaki

 

To CGY

Dvorak

 

Perhaps it takes a little more than Valimaki to acquire Dvorak, but, MTL traded D prospect Romanov away at the draft and could be looking for a replacement, hence Valimaki. Valimaki’s salary comes in lower than Dvorak, and Dvorak appears to be mis-cast now in MTL’s lineup. While Dvorak doesn’t hold a candle to a Barzal or Kadri, he does have upside and he is quite comparable to Backlund - I’m thinking, Backlund replacement. See here:

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_compare.php?players[]=1859&players[]=4194&period=2021-2022%3AR%3A99
 

Absolutely! 
 

Backlund, whil still good, is starting I show his age a little…but replaced with Dvorak could open up Backlund to be a tradable

chip while still has some solid return value….his current contract take him to 35 I believe and then he’s a 35+ contract so getting Dvorak at 26 would definitely be a smart

move with younger legs

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, bosn111 said:

I have never been on the “need to trade Hanifin” side of things and I am still not. Over the past few years fans have said to trade Hanifin because we have Valimaki who will be better anyways, and now Kylington will apparently improve more than Hanifin while costing less to re-sign. This all coming along with the idea that Hanifin has the higher trade value and apparently the fact that Kylington and Hanifin are the same age, Hanifin showed growth and improvement last season and D tend to take longer to peak.

 

So Valimaki couldn’t even hold a spot on the Flames and got outplayed on the Heat by other D, has not shown he can beat out Kylington, Zadorov or even Mackey let alone Hanifin. 
 

Hanifin does make bone head mistakes sometimes but he is much more consistent than Kylington. He plays more minutes and in more situations so he has more opportunities for the mistakes to be amplified. With Weegar now able to eat more minutes, Hanifin can focus less on being the main guy and just play.

 

If Kylington shows more improvement and plays better than Hanifin, then how can any reasonable person say that he will be easier / cheaper to re-sign? Both UFA and able to test the market… Market based on stats so the better stats get the better contract. 
 

Now I am not against trading Hanifin. He likely brings back value in a trade, and with Weegar able to play top line LD, and Kylington able to play middle pair, that makes it easier to move him, though not necessary. He would need to bring back significant pieces (plural) or at least 1 equal value player for the trade to make sense.

 

Hanifin is currently better than Kylington, so we are currently better having Hanifin above Kylington. This may change, but it may not. Many people point to the late season regression from Kylington after a hot start. We also need to consider the Tanev effect. How much of Kylington’s success actually came from playing with Tanev?

 

Valimaki at 23 could still show dramatic improvement, but he has fallen down the depth chart. With Kuznetsov, Poirier and Solovyov now on his heels, will he get passed further?

 

We still have questions on D, but these are now good questions to have rather than what we had in the past.

I think we bandy Hanifin around due to garner a significant return. I doubt moving him is actually on the minds of the org.

He's a good dman. I get a bit frustrated seeing him over-cautious too often, but I'd rather that than being too optimistic holding the o-zone.

Valimaki is reaching Juolevi territory for return. He seems to have lost his mobility. Over a year of injury issues means he gets passed on the depth charts. It's really too bad, because he looked pretty good to start. It's fleeting...

There is little return there, imho.

We aren't going to beat the Avs or Oilers matching firepower. We're going to need a really solid D group. So trading Hanifin for more firepower while diminishing D is counter-productive imho.

 

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I think we bandy Hanifin around due to garner a significant return. I doubt moving him is actually on the minds of the org.

He's a good dman. I get a bit frustrated seeing him over-cautious too often, but I'd rather that than being too optimistic holding the o-zone.

Valimaki is reaching Juolevi territory for return. He seems to have lost his mobility. Over a year of injury issues means he gets passed on the depth charts. It's really too bad, because he looked pretty good to start. It's fleeting...

There is little return there, imho.

We aren't going to beat the Avs or Oilers matching firepower. We're going to need a really solid D group. So trading Hanifin for more firepower while diminishing D is counter-productive imho.

 

Exactly this. I’m not interested in trading him unless the return is significant. 

[LouCifer]

I may withdraw my Dvorak trade. I like Necas more. 

[MP5029]

2 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I may withdraw my Dvorak trade. I like Necas more. 

Im sure you can but Car is close to an extension with him…I think Dvorak may be a better possibility of being available, especially with this Cap issue and still needing to sign Dach and where Dvorak Hans not really fit in with Mlt as well

as had been expected…

 

having said that, yes definitely Necas I’ve Dvorak 100% or Barzal or Wilson any or

all

would be great additions and or

uogrades to Backlund, Monahan, Lucic and even Toffoil…

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I think we bandy Hanifin around due to garner a significant return. I doubt moving him is actually on the minds of the org.

He's a good dman. I get a bit frustrated seeing him over-cautious too often, but I'd rather that than being too optimistic holding the o-zone.

Valimaki is reaching Juolevi territory for return. He seems to have lost his mobility. Over a year of injury issues means he gets passed on the depth charts. It's really too bad, because he looked pretty good to start. It's fleeting...

There is little return there, imho.

We aren't going to beat the Avs or Oilers matching firepower. We're going to need a really solid D group. So trading Hanifin for more firepower while diminishing D is counter-productive imho.

 

 

A couple of thoughts...

Valimaki is not going to get much unless it's for potential and packaged with another player with more value.  Almost to the point of waiving and not worrying about it or keeping him as a 7/8D and getting him in games from time to time.  

 

Firepower - well we actually beat the Oilers in scoring, but that's not really saying much.  One career year for a bunch of players and we lost one of them.  As it stands, we don't have the horses to outscore by a ton.  But, if you trade Hanifin for a C, then you have potential to increase scoring.  As long as your other 2 lines are adept at preventing goals, we should be fine.  Big if, but hoping for Hanifin to repeat playing with Tanev is also a risk.  We had the 21/22 Hanifin for one year, and was only close in his first year here.  

 

It's a tough call.  Rob your area of strength to fix depth elsewhere or have a really deep D.  If Hanifin regresses and Kylington stays the same or improves, then what.  

 

Weegar will set the bar for what Hanifin will want.  Kylington isn't at that same level and even 2 good years isn't going to do it.  

[LouCifer]

41 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

A couple of thoughts...

Valimaki is not going to get much unless it's for potential and packaged with another player with more value.  Almost to the point of waiving and not worrying about it or keeping him as a 7/8D and getting him in games from time to time.  

 

Firepower - well we actually beat the Oilers in scoring, but that's not really saying much.  One career year for a bunch of players and we lost one of them.  As it stands, we don't have the horses to outscore by a ton.  But, if you trade Hanifin for a C, then you have potential to increase scoring.  As long as your other 2 lines are adept at preventing goals, we should be fine.  Big if, but hoping for Hanifin to repeat playing with Tanev is also a risk.  We had the 21/22 Hanifin for one year, and was only close in his first year here.  

 

It's a tough call.  Rob your area of strength to fix depth elsewhere or have a really deep D.  If Hanifin regresses and Kylington stays the same or improves, then what.  

 

Weegar will set the bar for what Hanifin will want.  Kylington isn't at that same level and even 2 good years isn't going to do it.  

Or, just sign Paul Stastny as a free agent (his stats are better than Dvorak’s), and keep Hanifin. It’s a short term solution that allows us to get a capable C, keep Hanifin, and not lose a single asset in the process. 

[phoenix66]

17 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

A couple of thoughts...

Valimaki is not going to get much unless it's for potential and packaged with another player with more value.  Almost to the point of waiving and not worrying about it or keeping him as a 7/8D and getting him in games from time to time.  

 

Firepower - well we actually beat the Oilers in scoring, but that's not really saying much.  One career year for a bunch of players and we lost one of them.  As it stands, we don't have the horses to outscore by a ton.  But, if you trade Hanifin for a C, then you have potential to increase scoring.  As long as your other 2 lines are adept at preventing goals, we should be fine.  Big if, but hoping for Hanifin to repeat playing with Tanev is also a risk.  We had the 21/22 Hanifin for one year, and was only close in his first year here.  

 

It's a tough call.  Rob your area of strength to fix depth elsewhere or have a really deep D.  If Hanifin regresses and Kylington stays the same or improves, then what.  

 

Weegar will set the bar for what Hanifin will want.  Kylington isn't at that same level and even 2 good years isn't going to do it.  

Yep ..if you have to move vakimaki you take what you can get.. I still believe losing him on waivers would be a bigger black mark than getting a pick..

And yes .. Hanifin to me is moveable in the right deal.. a #2 C or similar..otherwise I'm not moving him 

 

Gotta say too .we may just look back at this offseason as the best thing that could have happened ..

Say we sign both Johnny and Chucky . 10.5 and 9.5..$20M.. 

This year we pay Hubie and Weegar 9.1.. $11m difference..   that wouid have spelled the end of Lucic and Monahan for sure.. the bad part being the cost of doing so.. how many picks? What prospects?  Likely no Zadorov resigning .. and somehwere possibly a player moved we didn't want to .. and still holes to fill..

 

[phoenix66]

16 hours ago, LouCifer said:

Or, just sign Paul Stastny as a free agent (his stats are better than Dvorak’s), and keep Hanifin. It’s a short term solution that allows us to get a capable C, keep Hanifin, and not lose a single asset in the process. 

I'm definitely open to this. Im just not sure hed be cheap enough.. but a lot of capped teams so maybe beggars can't be choosers .. hearing the Oilers are trying to get Kessel around $1m so could happen.. his faceoffs are still great and Toffoli wouid have a good set up man 

[phoenix66]

Boston still having issues with Pastrnak.. assuming we can sign him.. wonder who says no to Hanifin, Vakimaki, Coronato, Dube  and a first for Pastrnak and Hall 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

Boston still having issues with Pastrnak.. assuming we can sign him.. wonder who says no to Hanifin, Vakimaki, Coronato, Dube  and a first for Pastrnak and Hall 

 

Pasta is okay.  I wouldn't add for Hall.  The value of both is too high to bid on.  I would be okay with Hanifin + Dube + protected 1st in 2024 for just Pasta.  That's just an initial thought.  Would have to consider the impact.  I think it well below Pasta's value, but it's just what I am comfortable with at this point.  I don't love his cap hit; cap hit of the beast with all 6's.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Yep ..if you have to move vakimaki you take what you can get.. I still believe losing him on waivers would be a bigger black mark than getting a pick..

And yes .. Hanifin to me is moveable in the right deal.. a #2 C or similar..otherwise I'm not moving him 

 

Gotta say too .we may just look back at this offseason as the best thing that could have happened ..

Say we sign both Johnny and Chucky . 10.5 and 9.5..$20M.. 

This year we pay Hubie and Weegar 9.1.. $11m difference..   that wouid have spelled the end of Lucic and Monahan for sure.. the bad part being the cost of doing so.. how many picks? What prospects?  Likely no Zadorov resigning .. and somehwere possibly a player moved we didn't want to .. and still holes to fill..

 

I tend to agree. I wouldn't have been a fan of $20mil for the 2 long term. Just kind of rubbed me the wrong way for those two. The cap would have been a big struggle this year. Plus the playoffs being a lot tighter checking they just don't seem to fight through it.

[travel_dude]

Weegar signed 6 x $6.75M

 

EDIT - please take with a grain of salt.  I saw it reposted thinking it was SN, but it wasn't.

[sak22]

 

Wasn't on my list, but was on others.  Puts the Coyotes ahead of the cap floor.