2022 Offseason

[travel_dude]

Just now, robrob74 said:

 

are there other options there to pick from? 

 

Not sure what you mean.  Vegas is over the cap, as is EDM and a bunch of others.  Puljujarvi used to have value, but now he is signed for $3M.  Foegele is known to be one they want to move.  Nobody is going to give them much for either.  

 

If you mean other options from NY, I don't know what else we could go after.  Pageau?  They would need to clear enough cap.  Perhaps a pick and prospect, but I don't know he is worth a 1st.

[sak22]

31 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not sure what you mean.  Vegas is over the cap, as is EDM and a bunch of others.  Puljujarvi used to have value, but now he is signed for $3M.  Foegele is known to be one they want to move.  Nobody is going to give them much for either.  

 

If you mean other options from NY, I don't know what else we could go after.  Pageau?  They would need to clear enough cap.  Perhaps a pick and prospect, but I don't know he is worth a 1st.

Pageau I don't even consider an offensive upgrade from Backlund, Nelson is probably an offensive upgrade, but I don't like his overall game, both have 16 team lists.  So I don't like the Islanders for talking C's outside of Barzal.

[LouCifer]

Barzal is 25, a playmaking C, making $7M cap this season and then becomes an RFA. He would be a long term move, shoring up our depth at C for years to come. 

 

Stastny is 36 and would be a good 1 year move. He’s statistically better than Dvorak. Made $3.75 last year. I’m guessing he can be had for less than that on a 1 year contract. If an NMC is required to get him to sign for only 1 year, I’d consider it. 

 

Dvorak is 26 and his cap is under $5M for 3 more years. He’s a middle ground option, for a middle ground C. He statistically looks like a younger Backlund, and wouldn’t be a bad succession plan for Backlund if we want to consider that this off-season or in the future. He doesn't appear to be the “playmaking C” we’re looking for. 
 

Necas is 23 and just signed for $3M x 2. He’ll be an RFA still at the end of his new contract. Carolina is around $1.2M over the cap with a roster of 21/23 players according to cap friendly. Not sure if there’s a possible deal to be made there. 
 

P.Kane, not a Center of course, but he is the only non-Center I would consider adding for his elite puck distribution. I imagine having Hubie on line 1 and P.Kane on line 2 would likely give us 2 potent scoring lines, and 2 potent PPs. We obviously can’t take him on without salary retention, but P.Kane could give us a buffer of 1 year to find our 2C. (Pending Barzal isn’t traded elsewhere, it could allow us to see what happens when his contract expires with NYI at the end of this season, and consider making a move then ). 
 

Lots of ways to skin a cat, but it takes 2 to make a trade. I think out of the above I’d say Stastny, Dvorak, and P.Kane can realistically be had. Barzal and Necas are less likely. 
 

No moves will be made until Weegar is signed however. 

[travel_dude]

34 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Pageau I don't even consider an offensive upgrade from Backlund, Nelson is probably an offensive upgrade, but I don't like his overall game, both have 16 team lists.  So I don't like the Islanders for talking C's outside of Barzal.

 

I hope I didn't come off sounding like Pageau was a target.

I was just saying he was the only other Isles player I could think of that they would move.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, LouCifer said:

Barzal is 25, a playmaking C, making $7M cap this season and then becomes an RFA. He would be a long term move, shoring up our depth at C for years to come. 

 

Stastny is 36 and would be a good 1 year move. He’s statistically better than Dvorak. Made $3.75 last year. I’m guessing he can be had for less than that on a 1 year contract. If an NMC is required to get him to sign for only 1 year, I’d consider it. 

 

Dvorak is 26 and his cap is under $5M for 3 more years. He’s a middle ground option, for a middle ground C. He statistically looks like a younger Backlund, and wouldn’t be a bad succession plan for Backlund if we want to consider that this off-season or in the future. He doesn't appear to be the “playmaking C” we’re looking for. 
 

Necas is 23 and just signed for $3M x 2. He’ll be an RFA still at the end of his new contract. Carolina is around $1.2M over the cap with a roster of 21/23 players according to cap friendly. Not sure if there’s a possible deal to be made there. 
 

P.Kane, not a Center of course, but he is the only non-Center I would consider adding for his elite puck distribution. I imagine having Hubie on line 1 and P.Kane on line 2 would likely give us 2 potent scoring lines, and 2 potent PPs. We obviously can’t take him on without salary retention, but P.Kane could give us a buffer of 1 year to find our 2C. (Pending Barzal isn’t traded elsewhere, it could allow us to see what happens when his contract expires with NYI at the end of this season). 

 

Necas may be ideal.  I think they signed him so they have him a known cost for two years.  

They have Gardiner as a stopgap LTIR, so I think they are fine.

They are in win now mode picking up Burns and Patches.

 

Maybe I keep repeating myself, but any thoughts on Karlsson from Vegas?

We send Dube and Valimaki for Karlsson and Patrick?

$7.1M out and $3.8M in.

Actually, I would just do Valimaki for Karlsson.

I'm not sure Patrick will ever be a thing.

[JTech780]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

Necas may be ideal.  I think they signed him so they have him a known cost for two years.  

They have Gardiner as a stopgap LTIR, so I think they are fine.

They are in win now mode picking up Burns and Patches.

 

Maybe I keep repeating myself, but any thoughts on Karlsson from Vegas?

We send Dube and Valimaki for Karlsson and Patrick?

$7.1M out and $3.8M in.

Actually, I would just do Valimaki for Karlsson.

I'm not sure Patrick will ever be a thing.

Gardiner is apparently healthy and ready to play.

[pikey7883]

Well another one of our favourite targets (Necas) off the table for a very good AAV. But by my math with Gardiner back, they are $3m (roughly) over the cap. They can send a couple of their young kids down, but it doesn’t clear enough. I wonder if there is a deal to be made now?

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Gardiner is apparently healthy and ready to play.

 

I had heard of some rumblings of dealing one of their D, but I didn't see anyone (other than Gardiner) that they would be willing to part with.  Nobody wanted to deal for Bear.  Skjei, Slavin and Pesche make sense dollar wise, but they are all pretty productive.  They just spent on Burns.

[LouCifer]

52 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Maybe I keep repeating myself, but any thoughts on Karlsson from Vegas?

We send Dube and Valimaki for Karlsson and Patrick?

$7.1M out and $3.8M in.

Actually, I would just do Valimaki for Karlsson.

I'm not sure Patrick will ever be a thing.

Hey TD, I’ll play. 😁👍🏻
 

So Karlsson is 29 and has a $5.9 cap for the next 5 years. His Corsi and Fenwick were close to 60% last season which is incredible, but points-wise, he had his worst total in 5 years and it’s been declining every year to less than half of what he had 5 years ago. This makes my spider senses tingle, and I don’t want to hitch my wagon to that for another 5 seasons.
 

I did compare him to Stastny and Necas and both are very close comps to Karlsson statistically over the past 3 seasons in almost every category. Stastny and Necas would be cheaper options and would give us significantly more cap flexibility, plus, I worry that Karlsson may continue to trend downward this season from last. 
 

Again, this is based on statistics only so it’s a one-sided perspective. I recall from watching him, my eye test likes his game. It could be though that I more specifically like his defensive game. 

Edit. 
I compared him to Backlund over the last 3 seasons and they are almost the identical player statistically. Karlsson has a higher shooting percentage than Backlund: 13% vs 8%, but they have almost identical points. This tells me Karlsson isn’t shooting as much as in the past even though he has the skill to put the puck in the net. 
 

I still think he’s not the right target for us to pursue. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

Lindholm out Catching Big fishies asper front page of flames page lol lol

[Thebrewcrew]

Seravalli said on the DFO podcast that the NYI offer is 7x7 to Kadri, but he doesn't believe that it's done.

 

At this point in the offseason, I don't see them trading Barzal.

 

The earliest, if ever would be next offseason. I think it'd have to be similar to a Tkachuk situation. Player tells the team he's not interested in a long-term deal and is looking to simply take the QO.

 

The cost would be extremely high.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, LouCifer said:

Hey TD, I’ll play. 😁👍🏻
 

So Karlsson is 29 and has a $5.9 cap for the next 5 years. His Corsi and Fenwick were close to 60% last season which is incredible, but points-wise, he had his worst total in 5 years and it’s been declining every year to less than half of what he had 5 years ago. This makes my spider senses tingle, and I don’t want to hitch my wagon to that for another 5 seasons.
 

I did compare him to Stastny and Necas and both are very close comps to Karlsson statistically over the past 3 seasons in almost every category. Stastny and Necas would be cheaper options and would give us significantly more cap flexibility, plus, I worry that Karlsson may continue to trend downward this season from last. 
 

Again, this is based on statistics only so it’s a one-sided perspective. I recall from watching him, my eye test likes his game. It could be though that I more specifically like his defensive game. 

Edit. 
I compared him to Backlund over the last 3 seasons and they are almost the identical player statistically. Karlsson has a higher shooting percentage than Backlund: 13% vs 8%, but they have almost identical points. This tells me Karlsson isn’t shooting as much as in the past even though he has the skill to put the puck in the net. 
 

I still think he’s not the right target for us to pursue. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

 

It seems like you did your homework and the dog didn't eat it.

I'm not really sure what is the reason for the decline.

Two years ago was the stupid North nd Wesr divisions.

Last year was the everyone injured in Vegas season.

Any chance of him playing on the top line went out the wndow with Eichel.

But, every time I had seen him play before then, he was always a big threat to score.

 

As a trade for Valimaki, it would be a win; something for a player we might waive.

A a long term Flames asset, maybe not a great idea.

It's not that bad a salary.

It's just that we don't know if he is playing where he hates it and the team or something else.

 

Vegas looks like a team prime to be plucked, but very little there I want.

That they are willing to move that is.

 

[JTech780]

Well Carolina just got some cap room.

[pikey7883]

10 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Well Carolina just got some cap room.

I was just about to come and say we’ll forget about Necas, lol. Another name I have been thinking about is Gauthier out of NYR. He has never really been put in a good position because of there depth of front, and I believe they are going to give Kratsov lots of leash in the top 9, maybe they would consider moving him.

He could be someone who could really benefit playing with Hubie and Lindy? 🤷‍♂️. Probably wouldn’t take too much also, as they’re not looking for salary. Maybe Val and a later pick?

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

Well Carolina just got some cap room.

 

Torn Achilles is career ending, no?

 

Did the Canes know this when they traded for him?

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

It seems like you did your homework and the dog didn't eat it.

I'm not really sure what is the reason for the decline.

Two years ago was the stupid North nd Wesr divisions.

Last year was the everyone injured in Vegas season.

Any chance of him playing on the top line went out the wndow with Eichel.

But, every time I had seen him play before then, he was always a big threat to score.

 

As a trade for Valimaki, it would be a win; something for a player we might waive.

A a long term Flames asset, maybe not a great idea.

It's not that bad a salary.

It's just that we don't know if he is playing where he hates it and the team or something else.

 

Vegas looks like a team prime to be plucked, but very little there I want.

That they are willing to move that is.

 

I see what you’re saying TD. It makes sense. Valimaki is trending bust, and getting a legit NHL player in return from a team that is bent over a barrel is definitely a smart move. Karlsson is effectively a 29 year old Backlund and could be his replacement, but I can’t get behind the term (5 years) and the cap ($5.9M). If Backlund was being moved in a separate trade this off-season, I’d be more inclined to pull the hypothetical trigger. But we all know Backlund isn’t going anywhere and I believe he has a NTC to boot. Plus, Karlsson’s cap hit would eliminate any cap flexibility we have. 
 

I’d prefer targeting another C, or, the more I think about it the more I like Patty Kane @50% this season and exploring Barzal next season. 
 

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The earliest, if ever would be next offseason. I think it'd have to be similar to a Tkachuk situation. Player tells the team he's not interested in a long-term deal and is looking to simply take the QO. The cost would be extremely high.

The cost should be extremely high. It will also depend however if Barzal, like Chucky, limits NYI to only a handful of teams he’s willing to extend with. What BT got out of Florida for Chucky is not the norm, it was an exception. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out!

[Thebrewcrew]

35 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

 

The cost should be extremely high. It will also depend however if Barzal, like Chucky, limits NYI to only a handful of teams he’s willing to extend with. What BT got out of Florida for Chucky is not the norm, it was an exception. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out!

It's certainly worth monitoring.

 

Highly skilled. Hasn't even come close to touching the 85pts he put up in his rookie year. Nelson actually had the same production as Barzal.

 

The QO could be the sticking point. He's got a 10m ticket to UFA at age 26. Could see it being a tough negotiation. 

[LouCifer]

Well. I have another hot take for y’all. 😏 Buckle up because this one is interesting, and the players included could vary and still work for both teams. 

 

To BOS

Lucic @ $5.25M for 1 season UFA + Toffoli @ $4.25M for 2 seasons = $9.5M cap

 

To CGY

Hall @ $6M for 3 seasons + Zacha @ $3.5M for 1 season UFA = $9.5M cap

 

- Boston is currently $2.242M over the cap.
- The trade above is an exact swap of cap, so it doesn’t help Boston’s cap and we arguably get the better players

so We could either:

A ) CGY Retains $1M on Looch to give BOS some cap relief. Or,

B ) BOS adds Trent Frederick to the trade ($1M, RFA after this season, fights, and hasn’t really found his place/role in Boston) plus BOS has 1 too many contracts, so trading an extra player to us helps their cap AND helps them become 23-man roster compliant. Or,

C ) let’s say BOS doesn’t want to give up Zacha even though they just walked him into free agency after this season with the contract they gave him, so maybe they’d prefer to send us Hall + DeBrusk (who I don’t care much for) which equals $10M cap, saving Boston $500k. Or,

D ) maybe BOS would prefer to send us Hall + Craig Smith + Trent Frederick which saves them $600k. 

One look at cap friendly or Boston media and there seems to be growing momentum to have Looch return. Taylor Hall, product of Calgary, brings so much speed to the lineup, would likely mesh extremely well with Hubie and Lindy on the RW, would have the opportunity to stick it to Edmonton, and I’d expect he’d be willing to waive his NMC for the opportunity to come home and play on Calgary’s new #1 line. 
 

BT. Get on this! Time to start bringing some home grown talent home. 
 

Hall vs. Toffoli over the past 3 seasons are very comparable statistically. Toffoli could fill the void of Hall quite well at a lower cap hit and shorter term for BOS!

Name	Score	GP	G	A	PTS	SH%	PTS/G	EVG	EVP	PPG	PPP	SHG	SHP	SOG	SOG/G	SOG/60	+/-	PIM	FOW	FO%	Hits	BkS	TOI	PPTOI	SHTOI

TAYLOR HALL	14	199	46	100	146	7.9	0.73	33	105	13	41	0	0	585	2.9	10.0	-9	102	45	42.1	136	80	17:42	02:59	00:05
TYLER TOFFOLI	12	194	72	65	137	12.9	0.71	48	95	20	36	4	6	556	2.9	10.2	-6	58	43	42.2	204	52	16:49	02:20	00:57

Name

TAYLOR HALL
TYLER TOFFOLI

 

Showing 1 to 2 of 2 entries

 

[jjgallow]

12 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Did you hear of some offer that was picks and prospects only?  I only hear of two offers once Tkachuk decided to move, and they were actually incomplete or disputed.  

STL - Tarasenko + Scandela

This was disputed, so we don't even know if this was even close to true.

 

CAR - Necas + ??

What was included in that?  No info shared.

 

As far as future value, right now he is worth 12.7% of cap.  As the cap goes up, the cost of a 115 point player goes up.  Assuming he stays at that level.  But the point is, you make the best of what you have.  We can't let a guy walk that we were planning on having for 8 years (Gaudreau) and only commit 6 years to the replacement for.  Tkachuk was going to be in his 30's when 8 years is done. 

 

Point of all this is that it's fine to lock up older guys as we have to integrate younger guys and maintain the level of play, or we are just rebuilding.        

 

I also heard the Necas one, of course nothing confirmed.   The rumor did look good.   Not as good as Huberdeau on the surface.   Now that we have Huberdeau signed, things are definitely different and yes this trade looks better with him signed.

 

Ultimately if I am to point a finger at one thing, it wouldn't be the trade itself but what got us to the point that we were left with JG and MT with no term.    The trade part is all just speculation.   

 

It is possible, I mean, if Huberdeau maintains 115 points until he's 35, this is a good contract.  I'll say it.   But that historically has only really ever happened with generational players.

[robrob74]

9 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I also heard the Necas one, of course nothing confirmed.   The rumor did look good.   Not as good as Huberdeau on the surface.   Now that we have Huberdeau signed, things are definitely different and yes this trade looks better with him signed.

 

Ultimately if I am to point a finger at one thing, it wouldn't be the trade itself but what got us to the point that we were left with JG and MT with no term.    The trade part is all just speculation.   

 

It is possible, I mean, if Huberdeau maintains 115 points until he's 35, this is a good contract.  I'll say it.   But that historically has only really ever happened with generational players.

i get the desire for 115. Johnny probably reverts back to 85-95 points. If Sutter taught him how to be a consistent player, and he takes Sutter's coaching to heart, he might get over 100 a handful more times. Although, if he has a C and a RW I think he can on a regular basis. 
 

now Huberdeau did it with a mix of players, but I think if he can hover around 90 points then it's really what I expected from Johnny on the reg. But that doesn't mean they're worth 10.5. 

[jjgallow]

6 hours ago, robrob74 said:

i get the desire for 115. Johnny probably reverts back to 85-95 points. If Sutter taught him how to be a consistent player, and he takes Sutter's coaching to heart, he might get over 100 a handful more times. Although, if he has a C and a RW I think he can on a regular basis. 
 

now Huberdeau did it with a mix of players, but I think if he can hover around 90 points then it's really what I expected from Johnny on the reg. But that doesn't mean they're worth 10.5. 

 

Agreed.

 

On a positive note it's what you do in the playoffs that imho really should determine elite salaries, and from that perspective, a contract like this on Gaudreau was franchise destroying.  If we're going to give one of these out, Huberdeau is a much better choice.

[LouCifer]

31 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Agreed.

 

On a positive note it's what you do in the playoffs that imho really should determine elite salaries, and from that perspective, a contract like this on Gaudreau was franchise destroying.  If we're going to give one of these out, Huberdeau is a much better choice.

Liking the positivity here JJ 😊 
I agree that a contract like this for Gaudreau or Tkachuk, or… could you imagine BOTH 👀 would have 100% crippled our team. 
I may be in the minority here, but, I feel Hubie and Weegs made us a better team. 

 

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I also heard the Necas one, of course nothing confirmed.   The rumor did look good.   Not as good as Huberdeau on the surface.   Now that we have Huberdeau signed, things are definitely different and yes this trade looks better with him signed.

 

Ultimately if I am to point a finger at one thing, it wouldn't be the trade itself but what got us to the point that we were left with JG and MT with no term.    The trade part is all just speculation.   

 

It is possible, I mean, if Huberdeau maintains 115 points until he's 35, this is a good contract.  I'll say it.   But that historically has only really ever happened with generational players.

 

Other than Necas, I never heard a single other piece mentioned.  Unfortunately, there was a countdown to when the player would be a one year deal and a pending untradeable UFA.  Make the best of it.

 

You can only ever sign the player to what they want to sign.  Tkachuk set it up that way.  I'm not sure there was any way to solve that issue.  Gaudreau was a problem when it was signed, but we can blame that on the player and the GM not having cap to do more. 

 

[phoenix66]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Torn Achilles is career ending, no?

 

Did the Canes know this when they traded for him?

Not necessarily. Erik Karlsson sliced his and came back really well from it 

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, LouCifer said:

Liking the positivity here JJ 😊 
I agree that a contract like this for Gaudreau or Tkachuk, or… could you imagine BOTH 👀 would have 100% crippled our team. 
I may be in the minority here, but, I feel Hubie and Weegs made us a better team. 

 

I totally agree..

I was of the mindset heading to the offseason to sign Johnny and move Chucky for a haul to spread the talent around 

I had mentioned here earlier had we signed both , then it wouid have been felt across the roster ..crippled for at least a season until money opened up. 

The cost of having to move out Monahan and Lucic.. likely no Zadorov, possibly moving Kyllington..  and a serious risk of having to move Mangiapane..

I still can't believe it was Gubrandson that got paid and Zadorov came back . I expected that in reverse . Good on Gubby tho..