General NHL Stuff

[sak22]

17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Head scratcher for sure.  Bettman said Chevy was not in the senior leadership team at the time but isn't AGM pretty "senior" in the leadership group?  How much more senior does one have to be?

I guess not a big enough decision maker.  I'd be fine with Chevy keeping his job, if he didn't release an I knew nothing statement.  Honestly NHL seriously need to give people media training when it comes to legal matters, a simple I cannot comment on legal matters at this moment, I will discuss this when the time is appropriate.  Instead they all demonstrated they are liars, and lack any compassion those severely impacted by something they wished would just go away.  Disappointed with this decision.

[cross16]

I wasn't convinced that Chevy deserved to lose his job as in the report it does say he did just attend that one meeting. Having said that, he knew and i'm not sure "i trusted my superiors to do the right thing" is a very good defense in this case. I think he could have, and should have, done more including questioning why after this meeting no immediate changes were made or no investigation launched.

 

I don't like the NHL's approach to this decision. 

[conundrumed]

My aim isn't to offend, but I hope people can take a step back and analyze the situation a lot better.

I am a very active board member for a youth mental health and suicide prevention charity.

In general, my role is research, writing and presenter.

How many know Joel Quenneville supports a youth addiction and mental health charity?

The conversations from 11 years ago, we're not privy to them. We get generalizations of what was said.

Perhaps Quenneville said, "I'm a hockey coach, not a therapist, what do you want from me"?

Then someone above him said, "I'll deal with it". Who knows how it went? Maybe it was far worse, maybe it was better. Who knows?

What I know, is that there is absolutely nothing to learn from, "it happened because those people are sub-human monsters".

That fixes nothing.

We learn nothing from them by writing them off that way. That's way too easy of an out that helps zero moving forward.

Sadly, what likely should happen won't. Lawyers in the way.

What should happen is the org that victimized Kyle is the same org that needs to give him closure.

Work with him. As outrageous as that sounds. Stop fighting him, accept that your accountable and to blame.

Pay him and start the Kyle Beach Foundation and work with him.

I get that's easy to say and way harder to do. But this is about as poorly handled as I've ever seen.

Kyle Beach was victimized and ostracized.

Rather than truly communicate how to make it better by the parties, everyone is ostracized.

And no one wants to talk about it.

Except of course the masses of opinion that had no part in the event, just media reports steering their opinion.

In 5 years we'll say, "Oh Kyle Beach, wasn't that the Chicago guy"?

Yet another opportunity to truly learn lost again.

A massive franchise like Chicago grabbing this bull by the horns would sure make a difference for the lesser leagues and kids coming up.

Sure would like the media to promote that concept.

But there's no hate to sell.

 

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

My aim isn't to offend, but I hope people can take a step back and analyze the situation a lot better.

I am a very active board member for a youth mental health and suicide prevention charity.

In general, my role is research, writing and presenter.

How many know Joel Quenneville supports a youth addiction and mental health charity?

The conversations from 11 years ago, we're not privy to them. We get generalizations of what was said.

Perhaps Quenneville said, "I'm a hockey coach, not a therapist, what do you want from me"?

Then someone above him said, "I'll deal with it". Who knows how it went? Maybe it was far worse, maybe it was better. Who knows?

What I know, is that there is absolutely nothing to learn from, "it happened because those people are sub-human monsters".

That fixes nothing.

We learn nothing from them by writing them off that way. That's way too easy of an out that helps zero moving forward.

Sadly, what likely should happen won't. Lawyers in the way.

What should happen is the org that victimized Kyle is the same org that needs to give him closure.

Work with him. As outrageous as that sounds. Stop fighting him, accept that your accountable and to blame.

Pay him and start the Kyle Beach Foundation and work with him.

I get that's easy to say and way harder to do. But this is about as poorly handled as I've ever seen.

Kyle Beach was victimized and ostracized.

Rather than truly communicate how to make it better by the parties, everyone is ostracized.

And no one wants to talk about it.

Except of course the masses of opinion that had no part in the event, just media reports steering their opinion.

In 5 years we'll say, "Oh Kyle Beach, wasn't that the Chicago guy"?

Yet another opportunity to truly learn lost again.

A massive franchise like Chicago grabbing this bull by the horns would sure make a difference for the lesser leagues and kids coming up.

Sure would like the media to promote that concept.

But there's no hate to sell.

 

 

This is very well said and good perspective. As of right now all of the parties involved in covering this up are following the same playbook. Get rid of who they deem responsible so they can say they dealt with it and the problem is gone. 

 

I'd really like to hear from the NHL, NHLPA, teams, players whoever about how they think this can be prevented, or how can the culture be changed to allow people to come forward. Beach was let down by a heck of a lot more than just Stan Bowman, John McDonough, Al Mcissac and Joel Quenville. 

 

Sadly, I don't believe this will happen. I think accountability is one step, and a critical one, and i'm happy to see people being held accountable but changing a culture goes above just firing people. 

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

If this was any other industry, I would suspect anyone at that meeting would be subject to discipline.

But, let's face it this has more to do with lawyers limiting liability.

11 years ago and he's finally owning up to being part of a meeting?

No better effort than Q.

 

Brad Aldrich did something illegal but did the execs?  We don't know what happened at that meeting.  From the sounds of it, Quenneville felt it was a distraction and didn't want to deal with it because he wanted to focus on the Cup run.  So maybe someone very high up agreed and then it was so.  Big boss made the decision on the path forward.  Therefore, it didn't matter what Chevy or anyone else said.

[cross16]

More coming out of the story, specifically the NHLPA also dropping to ball big time on this. 

 

What does the PA even do anymore? If I was a player i'd have serious questions about my union and why the heck i'm paying them so much. 

 

 

[sak22]

 

Something I pondered is how in 2013 a high school hockey coach sexually assaulting his player who was a minor, didn't generate much news in the hockey world.  Especially when that coach is a Stanley Cup winning coach only 3 years earlier, how in the age of information, there is no digging into why a 27 year old wins a cup and then just decides to leave the professional ranks for high school.  Sometimes I'm amazed at how much information these insiders have, in this case I'm amazed at how little they provided and wouldn't be shocked if one or two knew bits of the story when it happened.

[Heartbreaker]

What a mess...

Love.

[tmac70]

The events in Chicago are what larger corporations and to some degree small ones do when dealing with issues such as this. Any one who thinks any form of goverance at what ever level is not corupt in what they do is nieve. Issues of sexaul misconduct illegal activites are not infrequent occurances. There is so much power and money to keep issues such as these under wraps it is startling. Predators are very good at getting in positions of control and using power to leverage their desires inside large operations. Board members and high ranking offcials will make decisions best suited for them not the victums or organizations. If the Hawks orgainzation  agree with the Kyle Beach than why fight him in court over it?  For those who stand on a pedestal and shout, I would say something, I call BS.   I agree with Torts in that someone had to grow a set and stand up for the victum, however it doesn't happen nor will you ever hear of the individual who may if it does.  If the opinion of the room sways to the side of denial and self presservation do you really think one person taking a stance of what is morally and ethicial right would still have a position in the organization? You would be removed maybe not immediatley but there will be ways to have you removed. The simple process of cowardness is to do exactly what Chey in WPG is doing now, defer. I heard rumblings but was not at the meeting and believed someone above me in a higher position dealt with, makes him just as guilty as those who made the decisons in the room. For anyone that stands up for the victum and any illegal activity you will lose. With out video evidance or documentiaon validation that you oppossed agasint the decisons, your F'ed. The others in the room will go into self preservation mode and make you invisible as fast as they can.

[travel_dude]

I see that FLA has re-signed Lombo to a two year extension starting next year.  Smart signing.  He's one of those character guys you can win with.

[conundrumed]

It's prolly more than time for this to happen.

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

It's prolly more than time for this to happen.

 

 

The arena problem in Phoenix has been an issue for so long, and Glendale recently messed them up for the future.  But really, the people that go to games are there to see the team that represents the place they moved/visiting from.  Lots of SHI, EDM, CGY, mid-west teams fans.   

[robrob74]

Joe Biden is calling for a boycott of the Olympics. I wonder how far that’ll go. Canada is doing the same.

 

could this get even uglier? 
 

I don’t mean to get political, but this just puts a wrinkle in the possibility of NHL going to the Olympics.

[travel_dude]

54 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Joe Biden is calling for a boycott of the Olympics. I wonder how far that’ll go. Canada is doing the same.

 

could this get even uglier? 
 

I don’t mean to get political, but this just puts a wrinkle in the possibility of NHL going to the Olympics.

 

A diplomatic boycott is not the same as the country boycotting,  

The USA one is just the diplomats that get a free trip and do glad handing etc. when there.

The athletes are not being barred.

 

We would be the same, should we decide to boycott.

They may leave it up to the individual players (NHL for instance), but we can easily get enough that want to go.

Lehner is not going because he says his mental health is not good.

 

[travel_dude]

On another NHL note:

Philly fires everyone including AV.

Nucks fire Benning and Green.

 

Wonder if the Yotes are next, or do they want to stay in the basement.

[medatswhoP]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

On another NHL note:

Philly fires everyone including AV.

Nucks fire Benning and Green.

 

Wonder if the Yotes are next, or do they want to stay in the basement.

You can add that Vigneault fired as coach of Flyers, replaced by Yeo to that list, I see you included that already my bad.. long day.

[The_People1]

54 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

On another NHL note:

Philly fires everyone including AV.

Nucks fire Benning and Green.

 

Wonder if the Yotes are next, or do they want to stay in the basement.

 

Yotes had zero expectations coming into the season so, no, they are good.  They are meeting expectations and fans aren't screaming for heads to roll.

 

PHI and VAN, talk about disappointing.  For VAN, I too thought they'd be a top team in the division.  Adding OEL and Garland were great moves unfortunately their two best players this season is OEL and Garland and nobody else decided to show up.

 

Comparing the individual talents on the Flames and the Canucks, the two rosters are pretty close..  the Flames went with size and muck in the bottom 6.  Canucks went for small and fast.

 

The Flames also had questionable D coming into the season just like the Canucks but the Flames found answers.  Kylington is a stud.  Gudbranson and Zadorov are asked to play a simple depth role where they've excelled.  The Canucks D has more questions than when the season began.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, medatswhoP said:

You can add that Vigneault fired as coach of Flyers, replaced by Yeo to that list, I see you included that already my bad.. long day.

 

Maybe those allegations that AV is a horrible human being and treats his player bad is true.  And players stopped responding to him.  But PHI has a good roster and should be better in the standings.

[rocketdoctor]

Pionk gets 2 games for kneeing.

 

Got to expect Spezza get at least 5.

 

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:

Pionk gets 2 games for kneeing.

 

Got to expect Spezza get at least 5.

 

 

 

Pionk was bad, sticking out his knee when he missed the check.

Spezza was insane.  Than's like a MMA move.  Target a players head with your knee.

It should be 10.

[travel_dude]

Khara knocked out again.

Trouba knocked him backwards and he hit hard.

Stretchered off the ice.

Poor kid, he was ruined by Oilers and probaby out for a long time now.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Khara knocked out again.

Trouba knocked him backwards and he hit hard.

Stretchered off the ice.

Poor kid, he was ruined by Oilers and probaby out for a long time now.

 

A career ender for sure.  He should've sat out the rest of the year after he got KO'd by Ritchie but the Oilers rushed him back for him to get rocked by Romanov.  Then the Oilers kicked him to the curb in the summer.  And now they are doing the same to Kassian who was KO'd in preseason...

 

 

[travel_dude]

~~~~~

He's reported as being up and responsive, but he should stay out the rest of the season.

Oilers turned a decent scoring power forward into a punching bag.

[The_People1]

Torts speaking his mind about the Zegras assist...

 

I don't agree with everything Torts says and don't agree with his delivery but I do agree the lacross move is not a good one for the NHL.  I thought years ago the league banned carrying the puck lacross style but I guess it was only on penalty shots.  It's fair game in live action.  We aren't allowed to carry the puck with any part of our body so why allow it with the stick?  Plus, someone is eventually going to get two hand whacked in the face trying a lacross move because the defender swung for the stick with the puck and missed.

 

I wouldn't sit the player down and give him a lecture like Torts suggests but I think the league should ban the move.

 

 

[travel_dude]

Well, when Svetch scored that one on Rittich a few years ago, he actually contacted the goalie in the mask with his stick.  Somehow it wasn't a high stick.  Somehow it was below the crossbar.  Stick to the head is ok with a goalie?  Is it because he's following through?  Well, that dosn't add up because it/s not a shot, it's a swing of the stick.

 

The NHL loves it because it's TV appeal.  Teams should knock the kid's block off when he tries it.  Buffalo sat back and watched it.