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conundrumed

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9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Be interesting. He doesn't carry Panarin's profile so be interesting to see how it goes for him. Seems like a guy who just had a good year and translated it into an NHL deal. 

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All I was pointing out was that the final two years of the KHL was quite similar in production.  Panarin was a couple of years younger, but otherwise similar.  Offering top 6 and PP is a bit of a stretch.  Having a fellow Russian may help him adapt better.  

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Always interesting to see how the KHL free agents turn out.

 

Panarin was a homerun for CHI. He was a great fit with Kane.

 

Vegas, in their inaugural season signed Vadim Shipachev. He was supposed to be in that "best player not in the NHL" category. He lasted three games before going home.

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A good class for Canuck fans and Sweden.  No argument for the twins from me, Alfie was not one I'd put in but was very borderline.  Luongo I don't really have an issue with, him making it, I just don't know if I'd look at his career and say first ballot, the hall has been a lot weirder with goalies than skaters.

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Luongo is a tough one for me. I'm not sure how a goalie can be a first ballot hall of fame and never win a Vezina, a cup or really any major award. I get he is 4th all times in wins (but with a lot of games played), won a Jennings and a gold medal but man i'm not sure that resume screams Hall to me let alone first ballot. 

 

Goalies are for sure challenging and at the end of the day the guy is 4th all time in wins so I get that piece but i'm also not sure wins are the best stat for a goalie's case. 

 

I'm good with everyone else. Alfredsson's NHL career doesn't scream Hall of fame but I think when you pair it with his international career (which you should IMO) he's a first ballot guy. 

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1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Luongo is a tough one for me. I'm not sure how a goalie can be a first ballot hall of fame and never win a Vezina, a cup or really any major award. I get he is 4th all times in wins (but with a lot of games played), won a Jennings and a gold medal but man i'm not sure that resume screams Hall to me let alone first ballot. 

 

Goalies are for sure challenging and at the end of the day the guy is 4th all time in wins so I get that piece but i'm also not sure wins are the best stat for a goalie's case. 

 

I'm good with everyone else. Alfredsson's NHL career doesn't scream Hall of fame but I think when you pair it with his international career (which you should IMO) he's a first ballot guy. 

 

Who else was there to vote for?  Seems it's too easy to make it to the Hall in the NHL unlike other sports.

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16 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Who else was there to vote for?  Seems it's too easy to make it to the Hall in the NHL unlike other sports.

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/hockey-hall-of-fame-class-of-2022-possible-candidates/c-334720696

 

Ya i'm not sure if it's easier as I do think most sports seem to have these controversies but it does feel like the NHL feels more pressure to keep electing their maximum every year. I'm sure I coud be proven wrong but it doesn't feel like they every elect less than the max and I wonder if that pressure leads them to create votes instead of just looking at who is eligible. 

 

but I do think it's wroth pointing out that Hockey has the largest international component of all of the 4 major leagues so there are more things to consider. 

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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Who else was there to vote for?  Seems it's too easy to make it to the Hall in the NHL unlike other sports.

When I think about it I think the HHOF is pretty good, I do think the problem is as cross pointed out in getting full class sizes when some years aren't warranted.  Baseball is by far the worst very difficult to get in and very hypocritical.  Football is similar to hockey in the class sizes are too large, the issue I find with football are the standards for entry continue to vary for example Terrell Owens and Randy Moss, neither won Superbowls had very similar stats both had issues with Moss' being more criminal.  Moss is a first ballot, and Owens waited 3 years.  Owens suffered because of his character, as is Fleury.  But quite a few guys in football need to wait longer than they should because they either didn't play the sexy position or weren't on a good enough team. 

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16 hours ago, cross16 said:

Luongo is a tough one for me. I'm not sure how a goalie can be a first ballot hall of fame and never win a Vezina, a cup or really any major award. I get he is 4th all times in wins (but with a lot of games played), won a Jennings and a gold medal but man i'm not sure that resume screams Hall to me let alone first ballot. 

 

Goalies are for sure challenging and at the end of the day the guy is 4th all time in wins so I get that piece but i'm also not sure wins are the best stat for a goalie's case. 

 

I'm good with everyone else. Alfredsson's NHL career doesn't scream Hall of fame but I think when you pair it with his international career (which you should IMO) he's a first ballot guy. 

Chris Osgood can't hear you with his 3 cup rings in his ears. The, "yeah but the team in front of him" argument, like he did nothing. But that's okay for Grant Fuhr. Ozzie's been eligible since '14.

But Luongo, 1st ballot, honestly? Worst NHL goalie at playing angles I've seen in the modern era.

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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Chris Osgood can't hear you with his 3 cup rings in his ears. The, "yeah but the team in front of him" argument, like he did nothing. But that's okay for Grant Fuhr. Ozzie's been eligible since '14.

But Luongo, 1st ballot, honestly? Worst NHL goalie at playing angles I've seen in the modern era.

 

More career wins than Domink Hasek. He has a strong case. 

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I think that's my only issue with the HHOF is that they don't vote in some and make wait until after they die to get in and not get the honour of being in their ceremony, or make it so hard that a player like Osgood can't get in. I think the Sedins and maybe all of those players are HHOF, but I look at them and I don't think they scream first ballots. They've had great careers. Many players have had great careers. The twins, Luongo, have never won anything. Maybe internationally. 

 

In years like this, maybe it's a good time to reflect on some of the ones who've seemed to be overlooked and make it right for them? 

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47 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I think that's my only issue with the HHOF is that they don't vote in some and make wait until after they die to get in and not get the honour of being in their ceremony, or make it so hard that a player like Osgood can't get in. I think the Sedins and maybe all of those players are HHOF, but I look at them and I don't think they scream first ballots. They've had great careers. Many players have had great careers. The twins, Luongo, have never won anything. Maybe internationally. 

 

In years like this, maybe it's a good time to reflect on some of the ones who've seemed to be overlooked and make it right for them? 

It is easy to say guys like Brind'Amour, Turgeon, Mogilny have more impressive numbers than the Sedin's, but also look at the era they played.  The Sedins had a good stretch where they were top 10 players in the league, it may not have been a 10+ year stretch, but still a significant period of time, I can't know if I make the case for any of those names above.  Personally I hate the emphasis on winning, and hate when guys get in just for being on good teams, hard league to win and the one time they got close it was really a poor matchup for them, they stayed loyal to that team which to be honest one of the things I find saddest about the Flames is that we don't have a significant player who spent his whole career here.

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2 hours ago, sak22 said:

It is easy to say guys like Brind'Amour, Turgeon, Mogilny have more impressive numbers than the Sedin's, but also look at the era they played.  The Sedins had a good stretch where they were top 10 players in the league, it may not have been a 10+ year stretch, but still a significant period of time, I can't know if I make the case for any of those names above.  Personally I hate the emphasis on winning, and hate when guys get in just for being on good teams, hard league to win and the one time they got close it was really a poor matchup for them, they stayed loyal to that team which to be honest one of the things I find saddest about the Flames is that we don't have a significant player who spent his whole career here.

 

Definitely not saying they're not HHOFers. Just the first ballot. I definitely believe they would get in... 

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, sak22 said:

 

Kuemper hitting the market.  A downgrade for the Avs IMO, but will save money.

 

Somebody will overpay for Kuemper.  Likely Toronto.  EDM doesn't have the cap to make a great offer.  They may try, but don't see it happening.  Too logical.

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The Avs seem prepared to roll the dice in goal in order to keep their team strong which is a fine strategy for them IMO. I actual think Keumper is a pretty good starting goalie (probably top half in the league) so goalie needy teams should be happy about this. 

 

A pretty good gamble from the Avs though. A few years ago there were some that though Georgiev would be the guy over Shesterkin so there is talent there. 

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Not a great return for Chicago IMO. Thought they'd get more and as that tweet mentions that Seth Jones trade sure looms large now. 

 

Great player add for Ottawa but they better get on an extension soon. Debrincat has the Tkachuk contract where his QO is 9mill next year and then he is UFA the year after. This could be an expensive add for 2 seasons of Debrincat but I also don't think they gave up a ton either. 

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41 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I thought it's a fair trade but the wrong direction for OTT to take.  They are rushing it.  They should've drafted and let their core gel for one more year.

 

Seems teams are willing to move their picks this year which suggest it's not a great draft.

 

I don't know.  At some point Ottawa has to start competing.  

A 1st and 2nd for a top 3 player?

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58 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I thought it's a fair trade but the wrong direction for OTT to take.  They are rushing it.  They should've drafted and let their core gel for one more year.

 

Seems teams are willing to move their picks this year which suggest it's not a great draft.


Provided they can get him to sign I think they just added to their core with a better asset than they were going to get at 7. This type of deal makes sense to me for clubs that are rebuilding because at least your adding a high end talent 

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