UFA 2020, Who’d You Sign?

[LouCifer]

12 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Why tho?  I feel Pietro could replace Giordano for leadership.  He captained a Cup winner.  Gio can go.  We could play Valimaki-Pietro top pair.

I don’t believe Gio is going anywhere. And if I compare the 2 D, I take Gio over Hanifin every time without question. Sure, Gio didn’t have the offense going this season, but I’d argue he’s a damn good defender. Whereas Hanifin makes me cringe in the defensive zone and doesn’t add much offense already. Hanifin also has more trade value IMO because of his age and skating ability. We could shore up RW perhaps with him going the other way. Again, I’m looking from the perspective that Calgary won’t trade Gio. They can’t. He’s valuable on and off the ice and it wouldn’t be a good look for the team to trade away a 2-time Messier award winner. Petro can take first pairing duties, I won’t argue there, and Gio in a second pairing role could be very advantageous. I just can’t see Calgary sending Gio packing is all. 
 

 

[Thebrewcrew]

1 minute ago, lou44291 said:

I don’t believe Gio is going anywhere. And if I compare the 2 D, I take Gio over Hanifin every time without question. Sure, Gio didn’t have the offense going this season, but I’d argue he’s a damn good defender. Whereas Hanifin makes me cringe in the defensive zone and doesn’t add much offense already. Hanifin also has more trade value IMO because of his age and skating ability. We could shore up RW perhaps with him going the other way. Again, I’m looking from the perspective that Calgary won’t trade Gio. They can’t. He’s valuable on and off the ice and it wouldn’t be a good look for the team to trade away a 2-time Messier award winner. Petro can take first pairing duties, I won’t argue there, and Gio in a second pairing role could be very advantageous. I just can’t see Calgary sending Gio packing is all. 
 

 

I think there's next to no chance the Flames trade Gio.

 

The only trade that I could possibly see involving Gio would be for OEL. It would be like Weber/Subban. I just think you'd have too much $ tied up in LHD otherwise. But even that trade is unlikely

[LouCifer]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

While I get those other destinations based on their needs, how the heck is Vegas going to manage the cap, if they haven;t even settled with the remaining RFA's as well as re-signed Lehner.  Nobody is going to help them out by taking MAF.  EVen then, that's not enough space.

I read somewhere that OTT of all teams may be interested in MAF. IIRC, his actual salary is cheaper than his cap hit, and if Vegas retains some of that salary, Melnyk will pee himself. 

[LouCifer]

19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

There's a risk in making too many moves at once.

Sign Pietrangelo and Markstrom.

Trade Hanifin for a RW.

The top line played a lot better when Gio was having a Norris season.

See what adding a proven performer does to that group.

 

Of course, if you know that Gaudreau wants out, then you find the best deal available.

If it's picks and prospects coming back, then you sign Hall.

Sure, there’s a risk. There always is. But this team needs a serious change to its core and identity. I don’t believe one or two guys are going to change it on their own - even if one of them is Petro. Petro of course helps with his Stanley cup pedigree and leadership, Hall apparently hates to lose and has a bit of a chip on his shoulder to taste the playoffs and aim for a cup, and Markstrom has the capability of being the undisputed starter that this team hasn’t had for years. 
 

With regards to Hanifin, Gaudreau, and Monahan, can those 3 players net us a number 1 center anywhere? A RW we sorely need? Sure, I can be a little aggressive in my suggestions, but they’re never based on trading for the sake of trading. Let’s try to win a cup. We’ve seen this same group make multiple attempts at being successful, and it just hasn’t worked out. Try something else. Those 3 players have value, so we’ll get value in return. It’s time to change the recipe and see if it pays off. GFG!

[The_People1]

20 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

I don’t believe Gio is going anywhere. And if I compare the 2 D, I take Gio over Hanifin every time without question. Sure, Gio didn’t have the offense going this season, but I’d argue he’s a damn good defender. Whereas Hanifin makes me cringe in the defensive zone and doesn’t add much offense already. Hanifin also has more trade value IMO because of his age and skating ability. We could shore up RW perhaps with him going the other way. Again, I’m looking from the perspective that Calgary won’t trade Gio. They can’t. He’s valuable on and off the ice and it wouldn’t be a good look for the team to trade away a 2-time Messier award winner. Petro can take first pairing duties, I won’t argue there, and Gio in a second pairing role could be very advantageous. I just can’t see Calgary sending Gio packing is all. 

 

Giordano's career was almost ruined by Hamonic.  And look what happened to Hanifin after we paired him up with Andersson.  The guy looked reborn.  Hamonic almost ruined Brodie too the first season he arrived before we trade Hamilton and reunited Giordano with Brodie.

 

Hamonic was the problem all along.

 

It would be a mistake to trade Hanifin right now.

[LouCifer]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Giordano's career was almost ruined by Hamonic.  And look what happened to Hanifin after we paired him up with Andersson.  The guy looked reborn.  Hamonic almost ruined Brodie too the first season he arrived before we trade Hamilton and reunited Giordano with Brodie.

 

Hamonic was the problem all along.

 

It would be a mistake to trade Hanifin right now.

I only suggested trading Hanifin if we sign Petro. It’s a cap thing. If we don’t sign Petro, I’m all for keeping Hanifin and Andersson as a pairing. They did look pretty good. 

[LouCifer]

3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

 

A link between Pietrangelo and the Flames

 

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/lebrun-sees-vegas-toronto-and-calgary-as-best-landing-spots-for-pietrangelo~2029574

That’s exciting!

 

Having Petro and Gio on different pairings would allow them to play the majority of the game and shelter the third D pairing. That could allow us to give Kylington the opportunity to stick in the lineup (low salary) and pair him with someone that’s equally cheap but more defensively sound to balance them out. 

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

Sure, there’s a risk. There always is. But this team needs a serious change to its core and identity. I don’t believe one or two guys are going to change it on their own - even if one of them is Petro. Petro of course helps with his Stanley cup pedigree and leadership, Hall apparently hates to lose and has a bit of a chip on his shoulder to taste the playoffs and aim for a cup, and Markstrom has the capability of being the undisputed starter that this team hasn’t had for years. 
 

With regards to Hanifin, Gaudreau, and Monahan, can those 3 players net us a number 1 center anywhere? A RW we sorely need? Sure, I can be a little aggressive in my suggestions, but they’re never based on trading for the sake of trading. Let’s try to win a cup. We’ve seen this same group make multiple attempts at being successful, and it just hasn’t worked out. Try something else. Those 3 players have value, so we’ll get value in return. It’s time to change the recipe and see if it pays off. GFG!

 

We have seen this group twice.

Against the AVS it wasn't those 3 guys that lost the series.

Against the Stars, you could make a case they didn't score 5v5 much if at all.

Against the Stars who really excelled scoring on any team they faced?

 

Sometimes, you need to make small fixes to win.

Trading out three top players, plus a roster turnover of UFA's is a big change.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want to see this team become a playoff contender.

Adding AP changes the dynamic.

Gaudreau was a better player in Gio's Norris season, but both playoffs (this and last one) had little contibution by the D.

The best they played was with one D-man on the PP.

Fixing the D should change a lot.

I'm okay with trading Hanifin if it adds something we haven;t had in years.

[The_People1]

54 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

I only suggested trading Hanifin if we sign Petro. It’s a cap thing. If we don’t sign Petro, I’m all for keeping Hanifin and Andersson as a pairing. They did look pretty good. 

 

We would be selling low on Hanifin right now.  Give him a full season with Andersson and I think his stock goes up big.  They did look good together.

 

Trade Giordano and play Valimaki-Pietro.  Valimaki can handle it.

[LouCifer]

39 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We have seen this group twice.

Against the AVS it wasn't those 3 guys that lost the series.

Against the Stars, you could make a case they didn't score 5v5 much if at all.

Against the Stars who really excelled scoring on any team they faced?

 

Sometimes, you need to make small fixes to win.

Trading out three top players, plus a roster turnover of UFA's is a big change.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want to see this team become a playoff contender.

Adding AP changes the dynamic.

Gaudreau was a better player in Gio's Norris season, but both playoffs (this and last one) had little contibution by the D.

The best they played was with one D-man on the PP.

Fixing the D should change a lot.

I'm okay with trading Hanifin if it adds something we haven;t had in years.

I personally include the seasons we didn’t make the playoffs as well. 
 

I understand what you’re suggesting, and to me it’s the more logical approach, but my time limit has been reached. I see it the same as Bosn11 with my exception of Gio staying put. In the past, you don’t build your team with UFAs. This is a different year, TD. Calgary is in an insanely unique position of having available cap space when the league has doled out a flat cap. We have buying power. The majority of teams do not. UFAs don’t have as many options, and the supply is going to out-weigh the demand. Costs are going to come down. You pickup Petro and Hall and Markstrom for nothing more than salary and term in a Buyer’s market (no assets being traded!), and you have cost certainty for years to come. Like Bosn11 said, Mony and Johnny are going to need new contracts in 2-3 years time - what are we going to have to pay them then? The prices today will likely be cheaper than those in the future. Plus, holding on to those two players to the end of their contracts will limit your trading opportunities due to NTCs if you decide to part with them instead of re-signing them. 
 

I see an opportunity here that doesn’t come around often, if ever. 

[CheersMan]

The big fish always, always get over paid on UFA day, over paid for way too long. The question is, how many big fish are we going after when we could be in a rebuild situation in a couple years?

[Sarasti]

I think of the big names available it would be a mistake to not go after at least one.

As mentioned above we can improve the team at the cost of salary alone.

I'm in.

[cross16]

Lebrun mentioning the Flames always gets my attention but in watching that I don't get the sense he was linking the two. I took it as the Flames have needs on D and a desire to add a player so why not go after the number 1 dman on the market. Didn't sound to me like it was suggesting Pietragelo would have interest. 

 

I'll still be very surprised if the Flames are a contender for him at the end of the day. 

[cross16]

Interesting article that theorizes that contract structure could be a key part of negotiations this year. Many players may look to backload contracts which is interesting from a Flames perspective as i'm sure they are banking on a big revenue boost in a few years with the new arena. 

 

https://www.tsn.ca/contract-structure-to-be-a-major-factor-in-nhl-free-agent-frenzy-1.1528686

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

Lebrun mentioning the Flames always gets my attention but in watching that I don't get the sense he was linking the two. I took it as the Flames have needs on D and a desire to add a player so why not go after the number 1 dman on the market. Didn't sound to me like it was suggesting Pietragelo would have interest. 

 

I'll still be very surprised if the Flames are a contender for him at the end of the day. 

I'm sure if Toronto has a way of signing him to a ludicrous contract they will. Even if it means sacrificing in other areas.

[The_People1]

45 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I'm sure if Toronto has a way of signing him to a ludicrous contract they will. Even if it means sacrificing in other areas.

 

For sures.  Nylander would be the obvious casualty even though they just moved Kapanen.  If they can sign Pietro, they would.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I'm sure if Toronto has a way of signing him to a ludicrous contract they will. Even if it means sacrificing in other areas.

 

4 players making 1/2 the entire cap for the team.

That is just insane.

In no market does it make sense.

We have a need that we could provide the money if asked.

I don't get the sense that he will have a long list of suitors that have space or are close to being a contender.

COL is about the only one, but they have top be careful.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

Lebrun mentioning the Flames always gets my attention but in watching that I don't get the sense he was linking the two. I took it as the Flames have needs on D and a desire to add a player so why not go after the number 1 dman on the market. Didn't sound to me like it was suggesting Pietragelo would have interest. 

 

I'll still be very surprised if the Flames are a contender for him at the end of the day. 

 

I agree that the headline didn't exactly match the words he said.

You would think that we are the top destination or being looked at that way, when really we just have some ability to do it.

We have 4 spots locked up so far.  One of those could be considered a top 4, but hasn't played in some time.

A top 2 of Gio/Pietrangelo combined with Ras, Hanifin, Valimaki, Mackey and Kylington/Yelesin sounds very good.

It would rival some of the best teams.

That in itself would be exciting for both the player and fans.

[robrob74]

57 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I agree that the headline didn't exactly match the words he said.

You would think that we are the top destination or being looked at that way, when really we just have some ability to do it.

We have 4 spots locked up so far.  One of those could be considered a top 4, but hasn't played in some time.

A top 2 of Gio/Pietrangelo combined with Ras, Hanifin, Valimaki, Mackey and Kylington/Yelesin sounds very good.

It would rival some of the best teams.

That in itself would be exciting for both the player and fans.

 

I like the sound of that D, but I also want to get harder to play against. If Hamonic could’ve lived up to expectations, but it’s what I’d like is someone who we thought he would have been when acquiring him...

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

I like the sound of that D, but I also want to get harder to play against. If Hamonic could’ve lived up to expectations, but it’s what I’d like is someone who we thought he would have been when acquiring him...

 

I think you see some defense that has a little bite, but is more capable of of "checking" the player.

Heiskanen is an ideal player in that he can check the player into losing the puck.

They need to be able to box out the opponents in close to the net.

 

So, I don't think you necessarily need a Hamonic as much as an effective Brodie.

Brodie lacked some of that, but overall was pretty effective.

You don't need a Pollack; you need a guy that can effectively play both sides of the puck.

[robrob74]

48 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think you see some defense that has a little bite, but is more capable of of "checking" the player.

Heiskanen is an ideal player in that he can check the player into losing the puck.

They need to be able to box out the opponents in close to the net.

 

So, I don't think you necessarily need a Hamonic as much as an effective Brodie.

Brodie lacked some of that, but overall was pretty effective.

You don't need a Pollack; you need a guy that can effectively play both sides of the puck.

 

 

Ya, and I agree with that philosophy. I think the problem is that the players we  do have tend to have bad reads that lead to breaks, and I'd like for once to have players that instinctively do the right thing. I get that it's about 2-3 that do it and it happens sometimes. I just think it happens more than it needs to... 

 

Like Hanifin will take a step in when the play is going the other way and for a speedy guy he puts himself in positions having to catch up when he wouldn't have to if he makes the right read, just stuff like that. For a fast guy he makes the game slow in the wrong way. Maybe not all of the time, as his breakouts might be a better part of his game. Then the reads in the D zone tend to be poor (whole team). I get that numbers might say it's league average defending, but I see guys losing assignments and at times, breakdown when the pressure is really on and start to watch or panic. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Ya, and I agree with that philosophy. I think the problem is that the players we  do have tend to have bad reads that lead to breaks, and I'd like for once to have players that instinctively do the right thing. I get that it's about 2-3 that do it and it happens sometimes. I just think it happens more than it needs to... 

 

Like Hanifin will take a step in when the play is going the other way and for a speedy guy he puts himself in positions having to catch up when he wouldn't have to if he makes the right read, just stuff like that. For a fast guy he makes the game slow in the wrong way. Maybe not all of the time, as his breakouts might be a better part of his game. Then the reads in the D zone tend to be poor (whole team). I get that numbers might say it's league average defending, but I see guys losing assignments and at times, breakdown when the pressure is really on and start to watch or panic. 

 

I think we have to take a step back from the ledge.

What we had last year is not what we will have this year.

 

Only 3 players were on the roster.

I'm not including Kylington because I'm not sure what the coach feels about him.

So, our defense struggled with certain situations.

Only one pairing remains, and that was the one that performed the best in the playoffs.

And that one only happened after the season ended.

 

We all have recency bias in that we remember best what happened badly recently.

For all the good plays Brodie made, we tend to point out the bad ones.

But, I haven't seen a perfect player yet.

We struggled against a top team that had an active defense.

Our "active" defense had trouble generating offense.

And we wonder why Gaudreau had so few scoring chances.

If he had to generate those from behind center, he was always going to struggle.

As would most forwards unless they are attacking in numbers and with speed.

[robrob74]

32 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think we have to take a step back from the ledge.

What we had last year is not what we will have this year.

 

Only 3 players were on the roster.

I'm not including Kylington because I'm not sure what the coach feels about him.

So, our defense struggled with certain situations.

Only one pairing remains, and that was the one that performed the best in the playoffs.

And that one only happened after the season ended.

 

We all have recency bias in that we remember best what happened badly recently.

For all the good plays Brodie made, we tend to point out the bad ones.

But, I haven't seen a perfect player yet.

We struggled against a top team that had an active defense.

Our "active" defense had trouble generating offense.

And we wonder why Gaudreau had so few scoring chances.

If he had to generate those from behind center, he was always going to struggle.

As would most forwards unless they are attacking in numbers and with speed.

 

oh and I don’t feel like I am using regency bias at all. I am generalizing the team D as a whole for years. And you’re right, a few could be gone. I don’t mind Brodie’s play since his episode. Sure Hanifin played well, but that’s also regency bias as he only played well during the last bit of games. Some say that’s Andersson, but overall he’s part of a problem with how I view this team’s D. It’s years of bias that I am talking about and not just against Dallas. 
 

the hope is that Hanifin is the player he was with Andersson, but we have to remember that they just had months off so you hope that they can up their game and tempo and play... the trick is after an 82 game season and playoffs, what do we have? I think it’s harder to evaluate players based on what we saw in the play-ins and the playoffs.

 

 

i guess average defending is ok, but it takes above average to be a cup winner. Is it systems or personnel?

[sak22]

52 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i guess average defending is ok, but it takes above average to be a cup winner. Is it systems or personnel?

There are still some very average defenders playing in the final, some  I would still say are significantly worse than the Flames top 4.  The difference is they are surrounded by some elite ones.  Hedman, Heiskenen are significantly better than anything we have, Klingberg and Sergachev probably are as well, but I wouldn't view anybody else  playing D in the final as a significant upgrade on Gio, Brodie, Hanifin and Andersen. 

[JTech780]

If Pietrangelo turned down 8x8 from the Blues and is looking for buyout protection and a NMC, makes me a little leary about signing him. He is great player, but his contract is going to be an albatross on the back half.

 

Let's just keep our names in there long enough to ramp up the price.