UFA 2020, Who’d You Sign?

[phoenix66]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

On Anderson the Flames were right there but ultimately the Leafs, who were higher in the draft than the Flames, had a slightly better offer and the Ducks took it to keep him out of the division.

On Bishop the original rumor was they agreed to a deal with the Lighting but then balked at the asking price on the contract extension. Some rumors were King said no to he extension but that's unclear. Then when Lightning traded him to LA, Flames were involved again and that rumor was that at the time all transactions needed King's approval. They could not get a hold of King and Yzerman, having already seeing this movie, dealt him to LA. Flames then tried to get his rights prior to going to Dallas but Bishop said No. 

 

I don't think you can fault the owners here as when i comes to investing in the team they've been there. 

Yep and I can see us being in on Andersson again 

Even if we had good tending this year.. no problems doing the same or similar tandem again..  if BT can lock up the net and stop the questions for a few years you know he will do it 

Sign Lehner or Markstrom,. Trade for Anderson or Fleury ( I know he's getting old but he's apparently a freak lol) I think he wouldn't think twice if it meant trading Rittich

 

I don't want any part of Holtby, Murray, or Crawford tho 

[LouCifer]

I like Gustafson - our PP was incredibly better with him on it. Bring him back. 3rd pairing D with PP upside. 
 

Reider - bring him back for his PK ability and the threat he brings to score on a PK. Sure he can be frustrating at times with his lack of finish, but he’d be a cheap quality PKer with speed, and the ability to move up and down the lineup without hurting you. 
 

Brodie - if Brodie is looking to cash-in, unfortunately we let him walk. I know many here harp on his gaffes, but he does so much well that we ignore how consistently good he is. He may not be physical, but his stick work is incredible. If he will take a team friendly deal to remain in Calgary, similar to what he’s making now, Brodie is a no-brainer for me. (And this is assuming Petro isn’t an option for us. If there’s a chance Petro is available, I think that needs to be explored first). 
 

Taylor Hall - Yes. He’s not looking for a payday, he’s a good player, he has speed, he wants to win. And, he may actually want to play here. Ticks a lot of boxes for me. I look past his injuries because his injuries were a result of compete level and desire. 

Goalie - Lehner and Markstrom are great goalies and they would solidify the position for years - at a cost. And this is the sticking point for me. If the flat cap and high availability of goalies this offseason keeps costs down for either of these goalies, explore it. I’m just not prepared to spend $6mil on a goalie given the flat cap. I look at Talbot and say to myself, if Talbot will take $3mil/year for a few years of stability (2 maybe 3), is Markstrom or Lehner at $6 mil a year, two times better than Talbot? I don’t think so. I liked Talbot. I thought he was a fit with Ritter too. Aside from the final game, I think Talbot is a great goalie and kept us in so many games while we were finding our footing. 

 

And I’ll go back to trading Monahan and Gaudreau. I agree C is a position of need, and if either (or both) of these 2 players can get us a C with higher upside than what we have, we have to go for it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

I caution those wishing to trade Monahan that we would be back to the drawing board.

You can replace any other position fairly quickly.

Or you could groom someone to play top 6 wing.

 

Gus is a PP specialist.  I'm okay in signing him, but I don't think he makes the defense very good.

I would suggest that Kylington plays defense better.

 

If we can't get the big fish Pietrangelo (sounds like he may sign in STL), then look at Vatanen.

Similar to Brodie.

Look at Montour in BUFF.

May not cost an arm or a leg.

 

I think they may have ruined Rittich.

Need to evaluate the goalie situation.

I think Talbot could have an even better year, but I'm not so sure if Rittich will.

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

I caution those wishing to trade Monahan that we would be back to the drawing board.

You can replace any other position fairly quickly.

Or you could groom someone to play top 6 wing.

Valid points TD. I may be off my rocker a bit but I do think there’s an opportunity to find a better fit this offseason at C. I know I can be aggressive in my suggestions and pursuit for players, but I label it a progressive or an outside-the-box way of thinking. I use the line “we’ve seen this movie before” often because the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I liked the way Monahan played these playoffs. I’m not sure I’ve seen him as aggressive and engaged before. Being in a bubble, a lot of other teams got to see that too and I’m sure there’d be significant interest in him league wide. Back to my crazy ideas. Eichel’s been well documented (and not likely, but if there’s the slightest chance it should be explored), but I also feel like this Barzal situation in NY is pretty volatile. The flat cap and documented threat of an offer sheet that NY couldn’t match... might be a situation where if NY can’t figure out a way to make it work, the fallback is trading him to a team that has something decent to give back. Monahan will fit in their cap easily for the next 3 seasons, and they get a top line center back to help now.
 

I really feel like this flat cap is going eliminate many teams from competing for players that may be available. I think the Flames can really benefit from this situation. 

 

Gus is a PP specialist.  I'm okay in signing him, but I don't think he makes the defense very good.

I would suggest that Kylington plays defense better.
I like Kylington. Gus was only making $1.2m this season, so I’m not sure how much of a raise he’s entitled to but if the cost remains similar, I keep Gus, pair him with a more defensively sound partner, and use Kylington in trade scenarios. I’m sure Kylington would be attractive for teams looking for D under control, and Kylington has one more season before he’s an RFA. I think Gus gives us flexibility to have an asset to dangle like Kyl and not be worse off financially or on the ice. Again, I like Kyl, I’d prefer not to trade him, but from what I saw on our PP and that “icing pass” Gus made to bounce the puck off the end boards and go straight to Johnny was it? Man, I can’t ignore that skill set. 

 

If we can't get the big fish Pietrangelo (sounds like he may sign in STL), then look at Vatanen.

I personally never liked Vatanen. I don’t feel like he has that desire to win mentality. 

Similar to Brodie.

I’d agree - Brodie does have a calm and easy going appearance, but when the game is on the line I do see him push forward - I’m not sure I see the same kind of charge in Vatanen’s game however. 

Look at Montour in BUFF.

May not cost an arm or a leg.

I don’t know Montour’s game well enough to make a comment. I remember in Anaheim he looked decent, but I couldn’t compare his game to Brodie’s

 

I think they may have ruined Rittich.

Need to evaluate the goalie situation.

I think Talbot could have an even better year, but I'm not so sure if Rittich will.

Perhaps. Rittich has some stuff to work on and I think he has the toolset to be successful in this league. His attitude to this point doesn’t suggest he’d be sour - hopefully that continues because I do see improvement and potential season after season. Remember, he was an ALLSTAR this year!  

These are only my opinions, TD. Sharing them for debate and to continue the conversation is all. 😁👍🏻

[phoenix66]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I caution those wishing to trade Monahan that we would be back to the drawing board.

You can replace any other position fairly quickly.

Or you could groom someone to play top 6 wing.

 

Gus is a PP specialist.  I'm okay in signing him, but I don't think he makes the defense very good.

I would suggest that Kylington plays defense better.

 

If we can't get the big fish Pietrangelo (sounds like he may sign in STL), then look at Vatanen.

Similar to Brodie.

Look at Montour in BUFF.

May not cost an arm or a leg.

 

I think they may have ruined Rittich.

Need to evaluate the goalie situation.

I think Talbot could have an even better year, but I'm not so sure if Rittich will.

This is my hesitation as well .

He may not be "A" #1 center,. But he's OUR #1 center, and I believe THE #1 center in the organization.

Unless you replace him.. you have to keep him . I'd suggest even our goal should be to keep him and push him down the chart 

 

I don't think they've ruined him.. but we may be seeing his peak. Remeber he's about the same age as Lehner .

Dominant #1 may not be his tag.  Tandem guy might be what he is.

If we can sign Lehner , trade Rittich and Sign a good <$1 mill  backup i think we'd be better off longer term 

Should be noted too that Demko just put Vancouver in a tight spot . I'd put the odds on the Canucks not resigning Markstrom now.. can't protect them both 

This year is turning into the biggest goalie UFA buyers market ever . 

[Thebrewcrew]

Someone that I would take a look at is Radko Gudas.

 

I'm not too big into analytics, but this past season his underlying numbers were far better than a guy like Hamonic. Treliving likes to have at least one physical, defensive D among his top 6. It comes down to cost, but he could be a more affordable option that could play some top 4 minutes for you. 

[travel_dude]

On 9/5/2020 at 1:00 PM, lou44291 said:

because the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

A commonly used phrase.

I have to ask, how often have great minds failed and tried the same thing until they got the right result?

 

[The_People1]

On 9/5/2020 at 7:48 AM, travel_dude said:

I caution those wishing to trade Monahan that we would be back to the drawing board.

 

Perfect.  Let's trade Monahan.  It doesn't have to be a full rebuild if we do it now because we have some young pieces who are young enough to still be here in 3 to 4 years.  Let's start now.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

A commonly used phrase.

I have to ask, how often have great minds failed and tried the same thing until they got the right result?

 

 

has that..ever really worked?  I'm not sure.

 

Tried different things, started from scratch, back to the drawing board....basically all of them....did lead to success.

 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

A commonly used phrase.

I have to ask, how often have great minds failed and tried the same thing until they got the right result?

 

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

has that..ever really worked?  I'm not sure.

 

Tried different things, started from scratch, back to the drawing board....basically all of them....did lead to success.

 

The Blues almost blew it up last season in December but didn't get the offers they were looking for.  Next thing they knew, they discovered Jordan Binnington and the rest was history.

 

Can we be so lucky?  At a fork in the road and then a miracle happens?  Do we have the right pieces in place for this?

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

The Blues almost blew it up last season in December but didn't get the offers they were looking for.  Next thing they knew, they discovered Jordan Binnington and the rest was history.

 

Can we be so lucky?  At a fork in the road and then a miracle happens?  Do we have the right pieces in place for this?

 

we can't be that lucky ha

 

Biggest reason is because we have no Jordan Binnington.  They knew he was good for a while, at least in the minors.   We don't have that.  And that's a whole thread.

 

Second biggest reason is because we traded away our first line of D, a position they are stocked full of.     Colton Parayko, Justin Faulk, Vince Dunn, Alex P, they are actually Stocked with young D in their prime.  Like we keep saying we need here and then get distracted with centers or insisting on keeping Gaudreau until he's not worth anything.

 

If we had solid young goalies and were stocked full of young D, I would not be calling for a rebuild, and I certainly would not have called for one with the Blues.

 

These are the things that time and time again win championships.  Were the Blues a huge surprise?  Not in my mind.

 

Now if they were relying on Bouwmeester to carry them the same way we rely on Giordano....well then that would be different.

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

we can't be that lucky ha

 

Biggest reason is because we have no Jordan Binnington.  They knew he was good for a while, at least in the minors.   We don't have that.  And that's a whole thread.

 

Second biggest reason is because we traded away our first line of D, a position they are stocked full of.     Colton Parayko, Justin Faulk, Vince Dunn, Alex P, they are actually Stocked with young D in their prime.  Like we keep saying we need here and then get distracted with centers or insisting on keeping Gaudreau until he's not worth anything.

 

If we had solid young goalies and were stocked full of young D, I would not be calling for a rebuild, and I certainly would not have called for one with the Blues.

 

These are the things that time and time again win championships.  Were the Blues a huge surprise?  Not in my mind.

 

Now if they were relying on Bouwmeester to carry them the same way we rely on Giordano....well then that would be different.

 

Ya we saw many Schenn and Tarasenko trade proposals around here last season.  And then the Blues turned it around.  But for me, I think a lot of credit goes to their young guys like Thomas, Fabbri, Kyrou, Sundqvist, Blais, Barbashev, Dunn, etc, etc.  They came into their own and really contributed to a deep team.

 

I'm looking at our prospects and don't see a comparable list of prospects the Blues had to save their season.  Valimaki and Pelletier, okay.  And then?

 

We shouldn't try to put together a contender next season.  We should start looking at 2023.

[Horsman1]

brodie to mont for domi.. monahan to minny for dumba would give the team a new dynamic

 

[Horsman1]

9 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

we can't be that lucky ha

 

Biggest reason is because we have no Jordan Binnington.  They knew he was good for a while, at least in the minors.   We don't have that.  And that's a whole thread.

 

Second biggest reason is because we traded away our first line of D, a position they are stocked full of.     Colton Parayko, Justin Faulk, Vince Dunn, Alex P, they are actually Stocked with young D in their prime.  Like we keep saying we need here and then get distracted with centers or insisting on keeping Gaudreau until he's not worth anything.

 

If we had solid young goalies and were stocked full of young D, I would not be calling for a rebuild, and I certainly would not have called for one with the Blues.

 

These are the things that time and time again win championships.  Were the Blues a huge surprise?  Not in my mind.

 

Now if they were relying on Bouwmeester to carry them the same way we rely on Giordano....well then that would be different.

we were lucky to stumble on Big Save Dave,, then threw him in the trash.. That's why we never have goalies

 

[Thebrewcrew]

This is a cool quote

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya we saw many Schenn and Tarasenko trade proposals around here last season.  And then the Blues turned it around.  But for me, I think a lot of credit goes to their young guys like Thomas, Fabbri, Kyrou, Sundqvist, Blais, Barbashev, Dunn, etc, etc.  They came into their own and really contributed to a deep team.

 

I'm looking at our prospects and don't see a comparable list of prospects the Blues had to save their season.  Valimaki and Pelletier, okay.  And then?

 

We shouldn't try to put together a contender next season.  We should start looking at 2023.

 

Exactly this.   In fact I think they still would have been dangerous if they'd pulled the trigger on that trade.  It was their younger guys stepping up that did it.

 

And absolutely we should be looking to future years to win.   I hate to say it but it's better now than later:  I think we should be looking at 2025 minimum.

 

Our problem in the last rebuild and the one before that is we ended them too early.

 

2020:   Askarov, secure our goaltending future   (I doubt this will happen but it probably should.  There Are, actually, a number of other great goalies in this draft)
           -- Trade Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Lindholm...anyone else that triggers a good deal, for picks in 2021-2022.   
               I wouldn't even be afraid to trade Tkachuk although I wouldn't be looking for it.

2021:   This draft is Littered with quality D.   Enough in one draft to build a championship D line.   
            3 of the top 5 and 5 of the top 10 are bonafide D that every team needs.  We scoop.  

2022:   Talk of the Next one.   And multiple players involved.  Elite forwards.
             http://stevenpellis.com/the-2022-nhl-draft-is-going-to-be-wicked/

 

Now add 3 more years for your newly acquired forwards to lead the league, for your D to mature and enter their prime     

 

But...Yes...I think you would start to see great hockey by 2023, it's inevitable.     I just wouln't "rush" that great hockey      

[jjgallow]

45 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

we were lucky to stumble on Big Save Dave,, then threw him in the trash.. That's why we never have goalies

 

 

That's definitely part of it.   I know we'd turn on him and we did.  We've done it with dozens of goalies.

 

But....keep in mind, we threw actual prospects in the Trash for BSD.    And BSD always had a ceiling.   You bring any new but older experienced goalie into this league they're liable to have success for a few months before the NHL figures him out.   

 

Anyway.  We can all agree that our goaltending situation is messed.  

[sak22]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya we saw many Schenn and Tarasenko trade proposals around here last season.  And then the Blues turned it around.  But for me, I think a lot of credit goes to their young guys like Thomas, Fabbri, Kyrou, Sundqvist, Blais, Barbashev, Dunn, etc, etc.  They came into their own and really contributed to a deep team.

 

I'm looking at our prospects and don't see a comparable list of prospects the Blues had to save their season.  Valimaki and Pelletier, okay.  And then?

 

We shouldn't try to put together a contender next season.  We should start looking at 2023.

The guys you listed contributed 13 out of 75 goals for the Blues in the playoffs, not even 20%.  Factor in the Flames recent playoffs and 15 of the 33 goals (45%) came from Bennett, Dube, Andersson, Mangiapane and Tkachuk who are all under 25 much like the Blues players you listed.  The difference between the two teams is their contributions from the over 25 guys, O'Relly, Tarasenko, Schwartz, and Pietro produced.  The Flames haven't got the same out of Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, and Gio.  I just think you're giving Sammy Blais' 3 points way too much credit for the Blues Cup win.   I just think both teams in terms of talent under 25, are closer than you'd we want to admit right now.

[robrob74]

We also know that how players handle themselves away from the puck or how lines contribute off of the scoresheet. Are the Flames depth players contributing enough? Are they doing “the little things” that help change momentum or help win games? 
 

it is easy to grab stats and compare two teams depth that way, but the reality is, which team has the full buy-in from everyone? Nothing of this Flames team suggests that they’re close to 100% team buy-in. 
 

we can say we are close, but the reality is, teams like the blues were close a lot longer, and had buy-in but play in one of the toughest divisions in hockey. 
 

last year we played in the worst division in hockey and ended up 1st in the West. The results skewed what this team actually was. 
 

It’s hard to win in this league when the hardest working players are 5’11” and under, aside from Bennett that is. 

[The_People1]

38 minutes ago, sak22 said:

The guys you listed contributed 13 out of 75 goals for the Blues in the playoffs, not even 20%.  Factor in the Flames recent playoffs and 15 of the 33 goals (45%) came from Bennett, Dube, Andersson, Mangiapane and Tkachuk who are all under 25 much like the Blues players you listed.  The difference between the two teams is their contributions from the over 25 guys, O'Relly, Tarasenko, Schwartz, and Pietro produced.  The Flames haven't got the same out of Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, and Gio.  I just think you're giving Sammy Blais' 3 points way too much credit for the Blues Cup win.   I just think both teams in terms of talent under 25, are closer than you'd we want to admit right now.

 

I'm all for trading away Gaudreau, Monahan, and Giordano.

[The_People1]

6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Exactly this.   In fact I think they still would have been dangerous if they'd pulled the trigger on that trade.  It was their younger guys stepping up that did it.

 

And absolutely we should be looking to future years to win.   I hate to say it but it's better now than later:  I think we should be looking at 2025 minimum.

 

Our problem in the last rebuild and the one before that is we ended them too early.

 

2020:   Askarov, secure our goaltending future   (I doubt this will happen but it probably should.  There Are, actually, a number of other great goalies in this draft)
           -- Trade Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Lindholm...anyone else that triggers a good deal, for picks in 2021-2022.   
               I wouldn't even be afraid to trade Tkachuk although I wouldn't be looking for it.

2021:   This draft is Littered with quality D.   Enough in one draft to build a championship D line.   
            3 of the top 5 and 5 of the top 10 are bonafide D that every team needs.  We scoop.  

2022:   Talk of the Next one.   And multiple players involved.  Elite forwards.
             http://stevenpellis.com/the-2022-nhl-draft-is-going-to-be-wicked/

 

Now add 3 more years for your newly acquired forwards to lead the league, for your D to mature and enter their prime     

 

But...Yes...I think you would start to see great hockey by 2023, it's inevitable.     I just wouln't "rush" that great hockey      

 

Last rebuild, we only had Backlund and Brodie as kids under 23... And that was all.  So we were in for a long build... Or should've been.

 

This time around, Dube, Andersson, Hanifin, Valimaki, and even Tkachuk if we keep him.  Bennett could be a keeper at 24.  We also have Gawdin and Ruzicka who are close.  Pelletier is brewing in the system.  

 

By trading Giordano, Monahan, Gaudreau, and even Lindholm, that should return at least 3 core pieces by 2023... it's a good time to rebuild.  Plus, virus and all.  NHL may not return to full normal for 2 years anyways.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

We also know that how players handle themselves away from the puck or how lines contribute off of the scoresheet. Are the Flames depth players contributing enough? Are they doing “the little things” that help change momentum or help win games? 
 

it is easy to grab stats and compare two teams depth that way, but the reality is, which team has the full buy-in from everyone? Nothing of this Flames team suggests that they’re close to 100% team buy-in. 
 

we can say we are close, but the reality is, teams like the blues were close a lot longer, and had buy-in but play in one of the toughest divisions in hockey. 
 

last year we played in the worst division in hockey and ended up 1st in the West. The results skewed what this team actually was. 
 

It’s hard to win in this league when the hardest working players are 5’11” and under, aside from Bennett that is. 

Didn't the Blues fire a coach?  I don't know about this buy in stuff but they've been a top regular season team in the league since 2012 and had a stretch where they lost 3 straight times in the first round despite being a 50 win team and having home ice each time.  The credit IMO for the Blues is Armstrong, take a look at that roster from 2012, I think Steen and Pietro were the only regulars on that team to last to the cup.  I'd love to see us move the pieces out like they did and remain competitive, and lets remember they let Backes walk and nothing significant long term for Oshie.  But it was a long process for them, we haven't hit the top level they've had the past decade, 1 good season isn't enough, but I don't know about buy in, this team just isn't good enough.

[jjgallow]

47 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Last rebuild, we only had Backlund and Brodie as kids under 23... And that was all.  So we were in for a long build... Or should've been.

 

This time around, Dube, Andersson, Hanifin, Valimaki, and even Tkachuk if we keep him.  Bennett could be a keeper at 24.  We also have Gawdin and Ruzicka who are close.  Pelletier is brewing in the system.  

 

By trading Giordano, Monahan, Gaudreau, and even Lindholm, that should return at least 3 core pieces by 2023... it's a good time to rebuild.  Plus, virus and all.  NHL may not return to full normal for 2 years anyways.

 

Exactly.     exactly.

 

And, in fact, by ending our rebuild early....in a way, we extended it.  by creating a need for a 2nd go at it.

 

Yeah we could keep those guys.     That said, I don't see anyone who's untradeable, it would just depend on the deals required to ship out the older guys.  If this younger group remained, then yes, that would be nice.   Not enough to prevent us from getting super high draft picks.   But enough to make the transition a little smoother and have some veterans in place in the next phase.    I would be fine with either approach, keeping them or trading them too.  Just whatever worked with the deals

[robrob74]

54 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Didn't the Blues fire a coach?  I don't know about this buy in stuff but they've been a top regular season team in the league since 2012 and had a stretch where they lost 3 straight times in the first round despite being a 50 win team and having home ice each time.  The credit IMO for the Blues is Armstrong, take a look at that roster from 2012, I think Steen and Pietro were the only regulars on that team to last to the cup.  I'd love to see us move the pieces out like they did and remain competitive, and lets remember they let Backes walk and nothing significant long term for Oshie.  But it was a long process for them, we haven't hit the top level they've had the past decade, 1 good season isn't enough, but I don't know about buy in, this team just isn't good enough.

 

it’s exactly what I said, only that they’re in a very tough division to get out of. But they’ve been a perennial contender statUs team for awhile, while even last year everyone saw the flames as soft and not a playoff built team. So I think it’s Apple to Oranges.

[ABC923]

The ultimate pitfall was probably the Hamonic trade as far as the rebuild goes.  We never really got true top 4 play from him, and now he’s done just as Dobson is breaking into the league (Dobson was selected with our 1st rounder that year). Even today, that would at least mean one more signed defender with upside on an entry level deal, leaving more money to sign a ufa or make a move (oh yeah, and he shoots right).