UFA 2020, Who’d You Sign?

[travel_dude]

10 hours ago, crazyflames said:

What is likely chance to get a player like Laine at 22 years of age without top 3 first round pick in any particular year???  Does Calgary Flames has any slim chances to get into top 5 picks in the next few years?  I hope not but likely zero chance too.  Therefore getting Laine...  it’s almost impossible even with offering like Hanifin + Dube.   Laine is a 50+ scorer, not many in this league, no need to say more.  I doubt Winnipeg Jet wants to trade Laine to same division rivals.  

 

Nobody is trading a 1st rounder that would be a top 3 pick.

Not when you consider that the top 3 this year is potentially as good as what Laine is or will be.

Let me put it this way, would NY, LA or OTT trade their picks + something else for Laine?

Certainly not for a player that is due for a big raise next year.

 

About the best comp I could come up with was the ROR trade to BUFF.

A 31st pick, Zadorov, JT Compher and Grigorenko for ROR and McGinn.

That was for a center.

That might equate for a 2nd, Hanifin and Dube at best.

At the time Zadorov was less proven and really didn't become the guy they needed.

Grigorenko never took a next step.

Compher is about what Dube is today, at 25.

 

 

[FlameFan4Life]

Who care about Laine, he is not what we need. He is a me guy not a team guy. He strikes me as the kind of player that will hand cuff his team at contract time.

[cross16]

I could always be wrong, and when it comes to me making predictions I often am, but outside of maybe some more depth signings I think the Flames will be done. Sitting on around 300-350K cap space with a 22 person roster is not ideal but very doable. 

 

I don't see them moving Ryan for cap space now that it isn't pressing, I personally think the ship has sailed on any major core style trades, and while maybe Hanifin for a winger is still out there given how many teams are tight to the cap I'm having a hard time seeing a good deal out there. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I could always be wrong, and when it comes to me making predictions I often am, but outside of maybe some more depth signings I think the Flames will be done. Sitting on around 300-350K cap space with a 22 person roster is not ideal but very doable. 

 

I don't see them moving Ryan for cap space now that it isn't pressing, I personally think the ship has sailed on any major core style trades, and while maybe Hanifin for a winger is still out there given how many teams are tight to the cap I'm having a hard time seeing a good deal out there. 

 

 

 

There should be little reason for Kylington's deal being delayed.  He has no leverage.  They are too late in the game to loan him overseas.

Leivo and Nesterov seemed to be the last pieces of the puzzle otherwise.

Good depth signings.

 

I mean, sure they could make a deal for Laine using Hanifin and Kylington, but that doesn't bring us under the cap.

I'm sure they would like to add a top 6 RW or even a #3RW, but we would need to get a replacement for Hanifin.

A more reasonable deal with WPG would need to be something like Roslovic + Beaulieu + Niku + Perreault (retained $1.5m) for Hanifin + Kylington.

<$5.9m out (2m+1.25m+850k+2.625m) $6.75m in.

Both team compliant, but that is based on Roslovic and Niku signing for modest raises.

We add some depth on RD, plus a "reasonable" replacement for Hanifin.

More likely to use Valimaki on the 2nd pair, but you have options.

Perreault gives us some added depth on the wing.

Roslovic is the guy that could play up the lineup a bit.  

[cross16]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There should be little reason for Kylington's deal being delayed.  He has no leverage.  They are too late in the game to loan him overseas.

 

 

 

This is Treliving's MO. He has no leverage so he'll give them a deal that works for them and let them sit on it until they basically have to accept. I would also guess that he's probably trying to get Kylington under his qualifying offer given that Nesterov is only making 700K. 787 (his QO) versus 700 doesn't sound like much but everything counts when your close to the cap. 

 

[JTech780]

6 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

This is Treliving's MO. He has no leverage so he'll give them a deal that works for them and let them sit on it until they basically have to accept. I would also guess that he's probably trying to get Kylington under his qualifying offer given that Nesterov is only making 700K. 787 (his QO) versus 700 doesn't sound like much but everything counts when your close to the cap. 

 

 

My guess is that the offer from Treliving now is a 2way deal at $700K in the NHL and something like $350K in the AHL. The 2way deal is probably where the holdup is at. I also don't expect Treliving to blink in that regard. Kylington's QO also would have been a 2way deal as he hasn't played enough games to reach the requirement for a 1way QO.

[travel_dude]

59 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

My guess is that the offer from Treliving now is a 2way deal at $700K in the NHL and something like $350K in the AHL. The 2way deal is probably where the holdup is at. I also don't expect Treliving to blink in that regard. Kylington's QO also would have been a 2way deal as he hasn't played enough games to reach the requirement for a 1way QO.

 

2 way or 1 way, he would be subject to waivers.

If they are going to waive him and send him down, they might as well trade him over losing him for nothing.

[JTech780]

36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

2 way or 1 way, he would be subject to waivers.

If they are going to waive him and send him down, they might as well trade him over losing him for nothing.

 

I think his value next to nothing right now, so they may as well see if he can earn a roster spot first. I just don't think they will be able to get anything for him. As it stands right now, he a tweener, not quite an everyday NHLer but too good for the AHL.

[Horsman1]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think his value next to nothing right now, so they may as well see if he can earn a roster spot first. I just don't think they will be able to get anything for him. As it stands right now, he a tweener, not quite an everyday NHLer but too good for the AHL.

if I were Kylington, I'd tell the Flames to go get humped and head to Europe and play closer to home

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think his value next to nothing right now, so they may as well see if he can earn a roster spot first. I just don't think they will be able to get anything for him. As it stands right now, he a tweener, not quite an everyday NHLer but too good for the AHL.

 

This is a strange year coming up.  May not be an AHL season.  NHL may allow teams to cycle a small amount of players in and out without having to count them towards the cap unless playing.  Not sure how that would work.  Of waiver eligible players, he is 7th.  Possibly tied with Petrovic.  Teams are more likely to claim a young D with NHL experience if they have a need.  Sort of another Kulak.  But know really knows.  I just think it's ridiculous to draft and develop a guy and the reason why he stagnates is you bring in vets for a playoff run.

 

[cross16]

I like Kylington more than some I think because I think he is deserving of a shot to be an NHLer. I personally don't think it's fair to say he isn't good enough because he was trending the right way last year until the club chose to go in a different direction at the trade deadline. 

 

I wish the Flames would have dealt him earlier because I just don't think he fits the roster the way it is currently constructed but I also agree is value isn't great and is probably nil. I expect a team would take a flier on waivers but I don't see teams giving you anything of value for him. As TD says, it's pretty similar to Kulak who netted them nothing via trade. 

 

At the same time, while I don't mind the player the GM is simply doing his job and utilizing the tools available to him. Zero concern with drawing a hard line with players when you have the leverage to do so. 

 

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I like Kylington more than some I think because I think he is deserving of a shot to be an NHLer. I personally don't think it's fair to say he isn't good enough because he was trending the right way last year until the club chose to go in a different direction at the trade deadline. 

 

I wish the Flames would have dealt him earlier because I just don't think he fits the roster the way it is currently constructed but I also agree is value isn't great and is probably nil. I expect a team would take a flier on waivers but I don't see teams giving you anything of value for him. As TD says, it's pretty similar to Kulak who netted them nothing via trade. 

 

At the same time, while I don't mind the player the GM is simply doing his job and utilizing the tools available to him. Zero concern with drawing a hard line with players when you have the leverage to do so. 

 

 

To be clear, I have no issue with a deal around his qualifying offer.

With the Nesterov signing and knowing we have a couple of D that might be considered to be equal to him, I also have a problem knowing where he fits.

If he's the 7th best D-man he will be on the 23 man roster.

He will get games, just not sure they will be often unless an injury occurs.

I have more of a problem with them waiving him.

 

I guess I kinda have the D ranked in this order:

Ras-Hanifin-Gio-Tanev-Valimaki-Nesterov-Kylington-Mackey-Yelesin-Petrovic.

You could make a case for Gio ahead of Hanifin or Valimaki ahead of Tanev.

Even Yelesin ahead of Mackey.

Really the first 6 are the top 6, IMHO.

[7wit]

5 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

To be clear, I have no issue with a deal around his qualifying offer.

With the Nesterov signing and knowing we have a couple of D that might be considered to be equal to him, I also have a problem knowing where he fits.

If he's the 7th best D-man he will be on the 23 man roster.

He will get games, just not sure they will be often unless an injury occurs.

I have more of a problem with them waiving him.

 

I guess I kinda have the D ranked in this order:

Ras-Hanifin-Gio-Tanev-Valimaki-Nesterov-Kylington-Mackey-Yelesin-Petrovic.

You could make a case for Gio ahead of Hanifin or Valimaki ahead of Tanev.

Even Yelesin ahead of Mackey.

Really the first 6 are the top 6, IMHO.

I agree that the problem would be waiving him. Is this anything like Kulak where the player feels  they are worth more than management does? It appears the Flames are moving on with or without him. If I was the player you take the deal as there may not be other teams looking for a depth defenseman who plays limited minutes. The Flames did not do a good job of managing his development recently, however. Maybe he’s being moved and we are waiting until the cap reset sorts itself out.

[Horsman1]

On 10/26/2020 at 4:29 PM, Horsman1 said:

if I were Kylington, I'd tell the Flames to go get humped and head to Europe and play closer to home

 

also.. some players it seems have a presumptive level of expectations and no matter what they do.. will never make it on their current team to the point they'd be better off in  legally changing their name.. Case in Point... Quine was called by Gretzky in Edmonchuck.. the best player on any team we played.. but here in Cowtown he could barely crack the 4th line of a marginally successful team

 

[CheersMan]

15 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

also.. some players it seems have a presumptive level of expectations and no matter what they do.. will never make it on their current team to the point they'd be better off in  legally changing their name.. Case in Point... Quine was called by Gretzky in Edmonchuck.. the best player on any team we played.. but here in Cowtown he could barely crack the 4th line of a marginally successful team

 

That’s quit the sell job to their local fans. If that is how their organization evaluates talent then it’s no wonder their franchise has been in a quagmire for a few decades now. Quine is a decent player but come on already.

[Horsman1]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

That’s quit the sell job to their local fans. If that is how their organization evaluates talent then it’s no wonder their franchise has been in a quagmire for a few decades now. Quine is a decent player but come on already.

i'm pretty sure he was talking American league player.. but yea.. if Keith Gretzky is in charge of player procurement up there.. well that says enough

 

[Horsman1]

Just now, Horsman1 said:

i'm pretty sure he was talking American league player.. but yea.. if Keith Gretzky is in charge of player procurement up there.. well that says enough

 

the Edmonton Quagmire has a nice ring to it

 

[travel_dude]

17 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

also.. some players it seems have a presumptive level of expectations and no matter what they do.. will never make it on their current team to the point they'd be better off in  legally changing their name.. Case in Point... Quine was called by Gretzky in Edmonchuck.. the best player on any team we played.. but here in Cowtown he could barely crack the 4th line of a marginally successful team

 

 

He is no doubt a useful depth player.  Seeing EDM's depth it's no wonder why they wanted to sign him.

Even there, he is not on the main roster.

He's 15 or later.

What's funny is Galchenyuk signed a one year deal in OTT for $1.05m.

A middle 6 player compared to $750k for a AHL callup.

 

Don't get me wrong, not everything here is rainbows and roses.  We have cap challenges, but we didn't trade 2 x 2nd. for a player we didn't even qualify.

Kenny the Cap-meister.

Brilliant.

They have enough available cap, once Klefbom goes on IR, to sign their middle pair D to a bridge deal.

Smith to a performance based deal of $1.5 - $2m.

Russell to an extension so they can expose him the end of this year.

Forgetting that they wanted to be able to trade his cap hit this year.

Now they can't.

Are they any better this year?

Defensively, worse on D.

Offensively equal or better (if Klefbom is back).

At forwards, they replaced Sheary with Turris and got back Poolparty.

Bottom 6 depth maybe a bit better.

Not sure if Turris has anything left in the tank.