UFA 2020, Who’d You Sign?

[MP5029]

23 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Not unless a significant salary gets moves out with little in return. Flames right now have 4 million in space for a 17 player roster. so basically they have no cap space other than to just fill out the roster. 

 

While it's fair to argue Tanev vs Brodie i'm not sure where the hole is now. Brodie was not a fixture, or really a key part of, the PP and even if he was you've got Rasmus available or even Valimaki. Filing his shoes on the PK, well that is one era where Tanev excels, 5 on 5 and playing against tough competition?, again this is a strength of Tanev. 

 

I don't think Brodie leaving has left a hole with Tanev in the fold. Where I think it hurts the Flames is Tanev is not going to lead the rush like Brodie can but at the same time Ward is not asking his dmen to do that. Brodie's a much better player in the o zone than Tanev but it's also debatable of how much of an impact that will make. 

 

I am a big Brodie fan and i'll miss him but i'm not seeing a big hole here. 

 

not now but you will once the season gets going and our offence sucks just that much more than it did last year...unless of course BT can fix the RW some, particularly getting a legit 2nd liner, then we won’t need the offensive abilities of a DMan in the offensive zone as much cause we would have capable forwards...as it stand Brodie is gonna be a huge loss especially on the PP

[cross16]

44 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

not now but you will once the season gets going and our offence sucks just that much more than it did last year...unless of course BT can fix the RW some, particularly getting a legit 2nd liner, then we won’t need the offensive abilities of a DMan in the offensive zone as much cause we would have capable forwards...as it stand Brodie is gonna be a huge loss especially on the PP

Brodie averaged about 30 seconds of PP time a game last year and registered 1 point. 

 

Saying he is a huge loss there is an interesting take 

[The_People1]

Brodie is a huge loss in 3-on-3 OT.  One of the best in the league and single handedly got us an extra 3 or 4 points from OT every season... 3 or 4 points is big when we talking about 7/8/9 seeding.   It's the difference between making the playoffs and missing it.

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

Brodie averaged about 30 seconds of PP time a game last year and registered 1 point. 

 

Saying he is a huge loss there is an interesting take 

also he missed a good number of games and took him some time to get his groove back, I’m pretty sure they were sheltering him for a while because of that, which is totally understandable...the bulk of his work in Cgy on the PP has been super important he’s been our QB for a long time, having said that it took him a while to get good at it too, I remember there were a few years early on where it looked like he wouldn’t be good on the PP but he did eventually get real good at it.

[cross16]

21 hours ago, MP5029 said:

also he missed a good number of games and took him some time to get his groove back, I’m pretty sure they were sheltering him for a while because of that, which is totally understandable...the bulk of his work in Cgy on the PP has been super important he’s been our QB for a long time, having said that it took him a while to get good at it too, I remember there were a few years early on where it looked like he wouldn’t be good on the PP but he did eventually get real good at it.

was the same the year prior too. Under Peters and Ward he hasn’t been a PP option other than spot duty for injuries. He averaged 50 seconds 2 seasons ago. 
 

3 seasons ago he was a regular on the PP although always second to Gio. Results with him on the PP were mixed and I would see the PP is better without him than it was with him. I like a lot of things about Brodie but I never found him to be a good PP dman. 

[travel_dude]

There are still a number of high profile UFA's out there.

Granlund is unsigned.

Vatanen is available.

 

I would look at Vatanen if we were moving Hanifin.

If we moved Hanifin for Roslovic and Niku, we would have enough space for sure for Vatanen.

Gives us 3 RHS d-men, with a 4th needing development.

And Vatanen could move up in case of injury.

[LouCifer]

Don’t know if it’s been mentioned before but apparently Vatanen is in talks with Anaheim as there’s a mutual interest in his return. Don’t recall the source where I read it. 

[redfire11]

On 10/17/2020 at 2:24 PM, The_People1 said:

Brodie is a huge loss in 3-on-3 OT.  One of the best in the league and single handedly got us an extra 3 or 4 points from OT every season... 3 or 4 points is big when we talking about 7/8/9 seeding.   It's the difference between making the playoffs and missing it.

I'll only be able to say "Damn Brodie What were you thinking" twice a year now.

[LouCifer]

On 10/17/2020 at 4:24 PM, The_People1 said:

Brodie is a huge loss in 3-on-3 OT.  One of the best in the league and single handedly got us an extra 3 or 4 points from OT every season... 3 or 4 points is big when we talking about 7/8/9 seeding.   It's the difference between making the playoffs and missing it.

Not to put pressure on a young guy, but Valimaki is apparently pretty smooth skating with the puck - could thrive in a 3-on-3 situation if given the opportunity. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[JTech780]

Looking at who is left and where are cap hit is, I think the following players would make sense.

 

Jan Rutta

Madison Bowey

Trevor Lewis

Melker Karlsson

Tim Schaller

 

[The_People1]

28 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

Not to put pressure on a young guy, but Valimaki is apparently pretty smooth skating with the puck - could thrive in a 3-on-3 situation if given the opportunity. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Brodie is a lighter guy though so it's just physics.  He can turn on a dime.  Closer comparable is Kylington... Maybe if Kylington can develop some smarts then ya, we've got our Brodie replacement.

[jjgallow]

On 10/17/2020 at 2:24 PM, The_People1 said:

Brodie is a huge loss in 3-on-3 OT.  One of the best in the league and single handedly got us an extra 3 or 4 points from OT every season... 3 or 4 points is big when we talking about 7/8/9 seeding.   It's the difference between making the playoffs and missing it.

 

I was never the Biggest Brodie fan but there's no denying the impact a defenceman like that has on a team.   It's a huge loss and just stunning how BT continues to give away our D for almost nothing or in this case absolutely nothing.    I understand the whole FA thing but he had time to do this right and this is something you do right.

 

there is light at the end of the tunnel though, if this team performs like I suspect it will then we won't have to worry about BT much longer.

[LouCifer]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

there is light at the end of the tunnel though, if this team performs like I suspect it will then we won't have to worry about BT much longer.

😂 you had me thinking you were going to say something positive about our young and upcoming D, and then you pulled the rug out from under me JJ! I should’ve known by now eh? If it’s one thing I’ll give ya it’s that you’re very consistent in your posts! 😉

 

I know you want BT gone, but I’ll argue with you that no GM will be able to make Calgary as attractive as the California or Florida destinations - so each GM to be will have that deck stacked against him. It really forces their hands to play with a short deck. Now, your “burn it to the ground” idea ain’t bad at all, but if your expectation is that we should ice a roster with 100% of our own drafted players, that’s not realistic. A contending team does have to have the right mix of drafted players, key signings, and good leadership (generally speaking) and to mix that cocktail a lot of things have to go right (players and GMs have to be willing to dance with you). Like I said in an earlier post, I’m beginning to realize that any GM of the Calgary flames is going to be operating in some capacity with one hand tied behind their back. If anything, I like BT because it’s been widely reported that he’s active on the phones and in on everything. Running a team in a not very popular destination needs a GM to be aggressive and in the mix, and I believe he’s doing that for us in spades. It takes 2 to Tango, they say, and we have trouble finding someone on the other side to accept our invitations to dance. Olé? 💃

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, lou44291 said:

😂 you had me thinking you were going to say something positive about our young and upcoming D, and then you pulled the rug out from under me JJ! I should’ve known by now eh? If it’s one thing I’ll give ya it’s that you’re very consistent in your posts! 😉

 

I know you want BT gone, but I’ll argue with you that no GM will be able to make Calgary as attractive as the California or Florida destinations - so each GM to be will have that deck stacked against him. It really forces their hands to play with a short deck. Now, your “burn it to the ground” idea ain’t bad at all, but if your expectation is that we should ice a roster with 100% of our own drafted players, that’s not realistic. A contending team does have to have the right mix of drafted players, key signings, and good leadership (generally speaking) and to mix that cocktail a lot of things have to go right (players and GMs have to be willing to dance with you). Like I said in an earlier post, I’m beginning to realize that any GM of the Calgary flames is going to be operating in some capacity with one hand tied behind their back. If anything, I like BT because it’s been widely reported that he’s active on the phones and in on everything. Running a team in a not very popular destination needs a GM to be aggressive and in the mix, and I believe he’s doing that for us in spades. It takes 2 to Tango, they say, and we have trouble finding someone on the other side to accept our invitations to dance. Olé? 💃

 

lol you're getting to know me.

 

Here, I'll be positive.  But I'll have to change context to do it.

 

Any sane NHL player would be happy to play in Alberta based on Alberta itself.

 

We have mountains,

We haven't destroyed everything natural around us,

We have great, fantastic people here

Our dollar doesn't constantly tank

Taxes are better than other provinces

Trump doesn't live here and thus we're not constantly being ravaged by Covid etc

Our jerseys aren't totally embarassing

The women here are keepers 

We're not constantly in  drought 

We're not constantly being attacked by Tornados

We're not consantly being attacked by earthquakes

We're not constantly being attacked by hurricanes

We're not constantly instigating wars with other countries

We're not constantly having heatwaves and fires

We don't have gun-toting militias at our election booths

Pretty cheap to buy a ranch and kick back

The air actually smells nice

 

From money to life, we're a good deal and quite honestly if a GM can't sell it that GM doesn't get it.   Edmonton has that problem, sure.   But mostly they do it to themselves.   Every NHL player knows you go to Edmonton for your career to die.

 

When the GM consistently makes poor choices, players who want to win the cup will avoid here and from that perspective yes I'd say Treliving will have a hard time but only because of his own decisions.

[LouCifer]

I had to give you a like there JJ! I appreciate the positivity  

[The_Tribal Chief]

This Team really has me Worried we lack defence lack offence push sure we got a Goalie for the next six years but we havent fixed our offence and we have sat there and lost defence so im not sure how we are gonna compete we havent got any cap room to even sign the pope to play hockey for this team right now

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

This Team really has me Worried we lack defence lack offence push sure we got a Goalie for the next six years but we havent fixed our offence and we have sat there and lost defence so im not sure how we are gonna compete we havent got any cap room to even sign the pope to play hockey for this team right now

 

We had top 2 offense in the league two years ago.

From that team we haven't lost too much other than Janko.

We had Neal, for which we swapped with Lucic.

So, if we had a down year, do we need to add offense or get those people back on track?

[MP5029]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We had top 2 offense in the league two years ago.

From that team we haven't lost too much other than Janko.

We had Neal, for which we swapped with Lucic.

So, if we had a down year, do we need to add offense or get those people back on track?

probably add, cause 2 years ago were career years for those guys, last year was more on par with their career averages...

 

added to that if you want to win, you go with the LCD (lowest common denominator) which I’d suggest last year would be about right...going by that, we need to add a 15-20 goal scorer 

 

as for the defensive situation I’m not willing to say it’s any worse just yet, too many variables in Valimaki and Anderson in particular and also there seems to be a lot of debate on Kylington and Yelesin...I can say it’s unproven, but weaker or heck even better we really can’t say, I can say there is strong evidence that Valimaki May very well be as good or better than Brodie (and I’m one who’s been advocating for Brodie and how much of a loss he is for us) but Valimaki seem to be ready for top 4, possibly even top pair at the rate he is going right now.  
 

anyway, the thing I’m willing to do is let them show what they have, you can’t get proven defensive without giving them a chance to prove themselves.

[cross16]

Where is the concern level in the "offense" coming from?

 

over the past 2 regular seasons the Flames rank 8th in the league at 5 on 5 Goals for rates. 

They are also top 10 in Expected goals for%/60, Scoring chances, and 12th in high danger chances. 

 

And while yes I'm aware that includes 2 seasons ago where they where the 2nd best in the league under Peters, under Ward the numbers don't change that much. 

12th in 5 on 5 goals for

6th in Expected goals for 

9th in Scoring Chances for

12 in high danger chances for. 

 

they also had the 3rd best goals for during the playoffs this year in all situations. Their 5 on 5 scoring lagged a bit in the Dallas series which for me points to flaws in their top line but also need to be weary of a small sample size there too. 

 

I still have questions about the top line and their ability to play a more dump and chase forecheck style game but I also think they've got parts that if they got creative they could find working combos. But still the amount of "concern" still isn't making much sense to me. 

[cross16]

I can certainly get behind a concern around the defense, in particular because they were a totally mess under Ward prior to the stoppage. Depending on how you break down the pairings there are certainly flaws there and Tanev is a downgrade on Brodie (albeit not nearly as much as is argued here) so I get those arguments. But depending on the deployment plan Tanev doesn't need to be a direct replacement for Brodie either. 

 

but I also see reasons for optimism. 

 

They tightened things up in the playoffs. 9th best expected goals against at 5 on 5. 

Hamonic is gone and for me he was a limitation on the D core last year. 

Addition of Tanev makes them harder to play against.

Valimaki is coming and gives the Flames balance across all 3 pairings. 

 

Coaching staff needs to tweak the system as I don't think the passive, collapse to the middle works well for this team but if they can find that balance I actually think things are pointing up for the unit in particular due to Andersson and Valimaki and while I hate the contract i do think the addition of Tanev and making them harder to play against was a necessary change. 

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Where is the concern level in the "offense" coming from?

 

over the past 2 regular seasons the Flames rank 8th in the league at 5 on 5 Goals for rates. 

They are also top 10 in Expected goals for%/60, Scoring chances, and 12th in high danger chances. 

 

And while yes I'm aware that includes 2 seasons ago where they where the 2nd best in the league under Peters, under Ward the numbers don't change that much. 

12th in 5 on 5 goals for

6th in Expected goals for 

9th in Scoring Chances for

12 in high danger chances for. 

 

they also had the 3rd best goals for during the playoffs this year in all situations. Their 5 on 5 scoring lagged a bit in the Dallas series which for me points to flaws in their top line but also need to be weary of a small sample size there too. 

 

I still have questions about the top line and their ability to play a more dump and chase forecheck style game but I also think they've got parts that if they got creative they could find working combos. But still the amount of "concern" still isn't making much sense to me. 

 

The offense goes back to Giordano and Brodie.  Two years ago you could argue that pairing was the most offensive minded pairing in the NHL.  The best transitional D and Giordano was constantly jumping up into the play and leading it.  If Gaudreau couldn't find Monahan, you know Giordano was trailing behind as a secondary option.  Brodie was also so good moving the puck out the zone.

 

Gio is slowing down.  Brodie is gone.  Thus, our offense will take a hit.  Hanifin - Andersson doesn't have that level of offensive potential.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

Coaching staff needs to tweak the system as I don't think the passive, collapse to the middle works well for this team but if they can find that balance I actually think things are pointing up for the unit in particular due to Andersson and Valimaki and while I hate the contract i do think the addition of Tanev and making them harder to play against was a necessary change. 

 

It really depends on how they roll out the lines.

Offense beginning from the D is about the same, maybe slightly worse.

I would liken Tanev's offense to Hamonic.

Different abilities to defend.

 

How the D is used in the D-zone is my only concern.

Mostly because we only have 5 that I consider ready for full-time duties.

On the fence about Kylington, Mackey and Petrovic. 

 

In general,  would say our top 4 can and will be able to play proper defense.

3rd pair is still undefined, so I assume they will learn the best way to defend if they don't already know.

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The offense goes back to Giordano and Brodie.  Two years ago you could argue that pairing was the most offensive minded pairing in the NHL.  The best transitional D and Giordano was constantly jumping up into the play and leading it.  If Gaudreau couldn't find Monahan, you know Giordano was trailing behind as a secondary option.  Brodie was also so good moving the puck out the zone.

 

Gio is slowing down.  Brodie is gone.  Thus, our offense will take a hit.  Hanifin - Andersson doesn't have that level of offensive potential.

 

Hanifin was close to Brodie in offence.

Ras needs to step it up a bit, but he's so responsible that he will pass up an opportunity.

I think you will see Valimaki add a new dimension to our D.

 

It sure would be nice to have someone that could hit the net from the blueline (PP).

Tkachuk is just bursting to tip one in.

Having that on PP2 would be nice.

Gio just doesn't have a good one-timer. 

[cross16]

29 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The offense goes back to Giordano and Brodie.  Two years ago you could argue that pairing was the most offensive minded pairing in the NHL.  The best transitional D and Giordano was constantly jumping up into the play and leading it.  If Gaudreau couldn't find Monahan, you know Giordano was trailing behind as a secondary option.  Brodie was also so good moving the puck out the zone.

 

Gio is slowing down.  Brodie is gone.  Thus, our offense will take a hit.  Hanifin - Andersson doesn't have that level of offensive potential.

 

While I would agree that would help explain the explosion under Peters what is the explanation for the results under Ward when he stopped having the dman lead the rush?

 

Over the last 2 seasons Brodie is basically tied at 5 on 5 goal rates with Hanifin and Anderson. Hanifin is tied with him in points and Anderson trails by only a slight amount. so in less favorable circumstances (considering zone starts, deployment and partners) Hanifin has been as productive and Anderson almost as productive (and that's without him being a full time top 4 dman). 

 

also if you looks at zone exits and transition there is not much of a difference again between Brodie and Hanifin and Anderson actually shows ups as better. Anderson is actualy one of the better dmen in the league of getting out of his zone cleanly https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/assessing-nhl-defencemen-best-transition-game/

 

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

While I would agree that would help explain the explosion under Peters what is the explanation for the results under Ward when he stopped having the dman lead the rush?

 

Over the last 2 seasons Brodie is basically tied at 5 on 5 goal rates with Hanifin and Anderson. Hanifin is tied with him in points and Anderson trails by only a slight amount. so in less favorable circumstances (considering zone starts, deployment and partners) Hanifin has been as productive and Anderson almost as productive (and that's without him being a full time top 4 dman). 

 

 

Gio hit the wall when Ward arrived.

 

From here on in, Gio should play second pair minutes and transition into a more economical game with Tanev.  The offense from D will have to come from the three kids Hanifin, Andersson, and Valimaki.  Need them to take another step forward.