UFA 2020, Who’d You Sign?

[JTech780]

10 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

I will be shocked if they can actually pull it off. They are gonna need to find ways to trade Fleury, Stastny, a D and probably Smith or Marchessault. 
 

I love Petro, but I’m not subtracting 4 key pieces from my team to get him like Vegas will have to

 

They are talking about buying out Fleury as they are signing Lehner. Buying out Fleury and signing Lehner gives the about $4.5m in cap space. Trading Stastny isn't a big loss for them, though they may have trouble moving his $6.5m. I could see them moving Schmidt and his $5.95m as well. They could get it done without hurting their team too much. It won't be easy, but it's doable.

[jjgallow]

 

 

 

Best move is no move.

[robrob74]

Weird! I do that in beer league all the time but it never fools anyone. (My stick handling abilities) 😂

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

I will be shocked if they can actually pull it off. They are gonna need to find ways to trade Fleury, Stastny, a D and probably Smith or Marchessault. 
 

I love Petro, but I’m not subtracting 4 key pieces from my team to get him like Vegas will have to

 

You could argue that SJS took aa perrenial contender, albeit on a decline, and messed it up.

Trading for Karlsson and Kane.

Two primadonnas who have never won anything except being a distraction for their old teams.

They have some good young players and most of the F are not old.

The D is a retirement home for overpaid D.

Karlsson, Burns and Pickle.

I like the latter, but $26.5m on three D over 30 is a lot.

 

Vegas buying out MAF makes sense, but put him out there to bite them in the butt.

They pay the penalty and possible face him in EDM or SJS.

I'm not sure that he is being bought out though.

Won't that need to happen soon?

I guess they could wait and open a 2nd window after FA with a couple RFA's going to arbitration.

 

Calgary might be in a position to offer a back-loaded deal with a NMC in the early years and limited NTC at the end.

As long as that is closer to $8m than $9m.

Pietrangelo would be the oldest Flame near the end, but he would be playing with Valimaki.

I doubt he would be any worse than the last two years we saw in Gio.

In other words, pretty good.

Gio gets some hate because of the playoffs and less than Norris this past year.

But he was still effective.

I see no reason why AP would be any different.

 

Bobby Ryan might be an option.

Dube-Bennett-Ryan.

Definitely some skill there.

 

I truly think we need to trade Ryan.

He's still effective, but we don't really need him.

Trade him to Buffalo.

Gives them some depth.

 

I'm less concerned about trading Hanifin.

He may actually be rebounding.

Ras made him look good, but he was effective in the playoffs.

Keep him there this year and make the decision at TDL or nest off-season.

[zima]

I hope we don't go after any of the UFA's always fails miserably Neal Brouwer I guess Frolic was ok Chad for the first few months Stone a wash as in ok i guess. Just please no big purchases I don't think we have to worry about Pietro signing here but there are other stupid buys I hope he stays away from. 

[MP5029]

Ah ok here is what I really don’t understand..if we are keeping Gio that’s fine he’s age is showing but he’s still a great player but for how long? Anyway if that’s the case why the heck not resign Brodie he’s bound to be far more affordable than AP and between that and the savings in Hammer I’m sure we could land a upgrade option on the Hammer position, And Hanifin seems to be growing into his own, then Ras and Valimaki on the 3rd pairing would make the most sense in terms of 1. its affordable 2. Keeps a pretty solid defensive depth, all be it without the stud D but it would definitely be a balanced group 3 deep!  3. Allows the opportunity to maybe sign Hall and a solid staring goalie and maybe even top ) Rw which they desperately need for a few years now...though it may cost GH, Backlund (Depending on his NMC) or something...and if we get really lucky maybe move Lucic but he’s kinda pulling his weigh as of late hopefully that continues if he says 

 

anyway the point here is I’m not sold on AP I think we are barking up the handicap jail going after him when we really don’t need him or that problem...is rather Hall and  a RW with some power to his game than AP 

 

and I do hope we don’t go down the B. Ryan reclaiming project...we have tried that too many times and burned every time, it works for some teams but Cgy is just not lucky in that area so hopefully we stay away from that for good!

[JTech780]

Who would be cheaper in free agency? Brodie or Vatanen?

 

I think they bring similar skills to the table Vatanen maybe has a bit more offense.

 

Dylan Demelo would be a good target.

 

A cheap depth defenseman to target would be Christian Folin.

 

A couple of forwards I would look at are:

 

Craig Smith, RHS RW, he is a consistent 20 goal scorer who can play up and down the lineup. He is a good skater

 

Josh Lenovo RHS RW/LW good shot, good skills, still only 27 years old. 

 

Tyler Pitlick RHS RW good energy player.

 

Edit:

 

A couple of other names:

 

Zemgus Girgensons LHS LW/C solid foot soldier, good on the PK.

 

Johan Larsson LHS C/LW good 4th line center, good on the PK.

 

Matt Nieto LHS LW/RW great skater, good on the PK, good energy player.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

27 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

A couple of forwards I would look at are:

 

Craig Smith, RHS RW, he is a consistent 20 goal scorer who can play up and down the lineup. He is a good skater

 

I've been thinking about a Craig Smith signing as well. He's a really under-appreciated player, the underlying numbers are good and he can score you 20. He would check a lot of boxes for the Flames.

 

It comes down to what kind of contract Smith is looking for. I'd go no longer than 3 years. 4.25x3 

[MP5029]

I’m not sure about UFA outside the obvious....Hall, people differ and say AP but I think there are better options to AP for the RD, maybe not better player but there are a few that are great players and probably cost a ton less to get.

 

anyway, the other major area I was thinking of Is goal...lots or Rumors spinning about a trade with Pit for Matt Murray who is an awesome option but..he’s an RFA and pits wants a 1st rounder for him in a trade which seem to be far too much where he’s an RFA I wonder if the Flames offered up something with a 4.2m Aav if he would sign, cost would only end up being a 2nd rounder...4.2M is higher than Murray 2019/2020 at 3.75m ish... he’s 25 so he has some life in him could do a bridge deal for a year or two at 4.2m which may work in the FA for for both him and Cgy giving the cap being stalled out for at least a year or two...

 

there is a risk pits would match but given their cap constraints and wanting to keep their other goalie they may not..thoughts? 

[cross16]

13 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Who would be cheaper in free agency? Brodie or Vatanen?

 

I think they bring similar skills to the table Vatanen maybe has a bit more offense.

 

Dylan Demelo would be a good target.

 

A cheap depth defenseman to target would be Christian Folin.

 

A couple of forwards I would look at are:

 

Craig Smith, RHS RW, he is a consistent 20 goal scorer who can play up and down the lineup. He is a good skater

 

Josh Lenovo RHS RW/LW good shot, good skills, still only 27 years old. 

 

Tyler Pitlick RHS RW good energy player.

 

Edit:

 

A couple of other names:

 

Zemgus Girgensons LHS LW/C solid foot soldier, good on the PK.

 

Johan Larsson LHS C/LW good 4th line center, good on the PK.

 

Matt Nieto LHS LW/RW great skater, good on the PK, good energy player.

 

I think I missed Pitlick on my list but I agree. Real good bottom 6 player who would address a few needs. 
 

in an article for the Atheltic Duhatschek mentioned he thought the flames had Vatanen in there proposed offer for Hall and was speculating if they would circle back. 
 

I think Brodie is better personally but it’s not a big gap and his RS would be a boost for sure as well as his PP ability 

[JTech780]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think I missed Pitlick on my list but I agree. Real good bottom 6 player who would address a few needs. 
 

in an article for the Atheltic Duhatschek mentioned he thought the flames had Vatanen in there proposed offer for Hall and was speculating if they would circle back. 
 

I think Brodie is better personally but it’s not a big gap and his RS would be a boost for sure as well as his PP ability 

 

I agree about Brodie, but if Vatanen comes in at a $1m AAV cheaper I would lean towards Vatanen. 

[travel_dude]

For me, it comes down to whether they can make a Pietro deal work without destroying the cap.

It makes it tougher to fill other holes for sure.

Some of this also comes down to whether they are trading Gaudreau or not.

No point in signing Hall if they are not.

 

I always felt that Vatanen was a really good D-man in ANA.

Injury trouble recently, but he is still a target.

He fits our cap a bit better.

Allows us to improve other parts of the team.

 

Overall, regardless of who we sign, we need to move on from Derek Ryan.

He's a good 3 or 4C.

But we have Bennett and paying $3.1m for a 4C makes no sense.

Gawdin is ready for NHL.

 

[tmac70]

The trade for Gaudrea not sure what the return would be, I would think he gets similar to the Laine request.   I know the talk is Philly but what are you getting coming back? Definelty their 1st, I would definely ask for Nolan Patrick ( risk but worth it) but who else?  They need to add and it has to be a younger marquee player, not sure who though.  I thought the Rangers but they will have Lafreniere so that maynot work. I thought maybe Kappo and their 1st from Carolina, for me thats the type of trade that needs to happen. If we don't get a quality player in return whats the point. Or what about a Mony, JG and Hanifin for their 1st overall plus a prospect. Gives them a 1st or 2nd  line  center, 1st line left wing and top 4 dman. Rangers are buyng out Lunquist and have the space JG mony and Hanifin only take up 15 million it allows them to fill their gaps with the 13 million left.  

 

With JG wanting to be near home this checks lots of boxes and may work for both sides, Does Rangers GM or ours have  moxie to pull off such a trade though? Could be a pipe dream but dream large I always say. For us we get a franchise LW coming in, opens up cap space to fill the voids for UFA's as well. We have 16million and would now have 31 million in cap space.  WIth JG gone Hall is coming in at 8 Million, your than in need of a goalie. Markstrom could be had, Kuemper could possibly been done with our 1st which now leaves us with 18 million, you could make a run at Petro for 9 Million, with 9 million left to sign what we have to sign. 

 

There is also the rumor of Monahan to Min for Dumba. I like Dumba but not at a one for one trade. Dumba a 2nd and prospect for Monahan sure. Also what about a trade with ARZ, for OEL, Kessel and Kuemper( 15% retained on Kessel and OEL)  would Hanifin, Ryan Kylington our 1st and 2nd work? May not be enough but it provides them a good D prospect, a top 4 dman young on a good contract, and a veteran player that can fill alot of voids. For us OEL is an upgrade over Brodie and with 15 % retained would be the same value if we resigned him, Kessel now fills the void at RW veteran guy has won 2 cups, 15 % retained fits the need, Kuemper self explanatory. 

 

[JTech780]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

For me, it comes down to whether they can make a Pietro deal work without destroying the cap.

It makes it tougher to fill other holes for sure.

Some of this also comes down to whether they are trading Gaudreau or not.

No point in signing Hall if they are not.

 

I always felt that Vatanen was a really good D-man in ANA.

Injury trouble recently, but he is still a target.

He fits our cap a bit better.

Allows us to improve other parts of the team.

 

Overall, regardless of who we sign, we need to move on from Derek Ryan.

He's a good 3 or 4C.

But we have Bennett and paying $3.1m for a 4C makes no sense.

Gawdin is ready for NHL.

 

 

I just don't see a likely situation where Pietrangelo signs here. I think the Blues find a way to bring him back, but if he does make it to the market Vegas and the Leafs will be the most likely landing spots for him.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

The trade for Gaudrea not sure what the return would be, I would think he gets similar to the Laine request.   I know the talk is Philly but what are you getting coming back? Definelty their 1st, I would definely ask for Nolan Patrick ( risk but worth it) but who else?  They need to add and it has to be a younger marquee player, not sure who though.  I thought the Rangers but they will have Lafreniere so that maynot work. I thought maybe Kappo and their 1st from Carolina, for me thats the type of trade that needs to happen. If we don't get a quality player in return whats the point. Or what about a Mony, JG and Hanifin for their 1st overall plus a prospect. Gives them a 1st or 2nd  line  center, 1st line left wing and top 4 dman. Rangers are buyng out Lunquist and have the space JG mony and Hanifin only take up 15 million it allows them to fill their gaps with the 13 million left.  

 

With JG wanting to be near home this checks lots of boxes and may work for both sides, Does Rangers GM or ours have  moxie to pull off such a trade though? Could be a pipe dream but dream large I always say. For us we get a franchise LW coming in, opens up cap space to fill the voids for UFA's as well. We have 16million and would now have 31 million in cap space.  WIth JG gone Hall is coming in at 8 Million, your than in need of a goalie. Markstrom could be had, Kuemper could possibly been done with our 1st which now leaves us with 18 million, you could make a run at Petro for 9 Million, with 9 million left to sign what we have to sign. 

 

There is also the rumor of Monahan to Min for Dumba. I like Dumba but not at a one for one trade. Dumba a 2nd and prospect for Monahan sure. Also what about a trade with ARZ, for OEL, Kessel and Kuemper( 15% retained on Kessel and OEL)  would Hanifin, Ryan Kylington our 1st and 2nd work? May not be enough but it provides them a good D prospect, a top 4 dman young on a good contract, and a veteran player that can fill alot of voids. For us OEL is an upgrade over Brodie and with 15 % retained would be the same value if we resigned him, Kessel now fills the void at RW veteran guy has won 2 cups, 15 % retained fits the need, Kuemper self explanatory. 

 

 

I'd do Hall for Tkachuk money. He might be willing to as well, considering he wants to be able to build a contender. I can see him doing what Marchand did in Boston, took less to be competitive or not to be above Bergeron. Hall said he'd be willing to take less to win. I don't know how much of that is lip service. He might not be taking Arizona offers solely on the fact that he wants to win and whatever they're offering doesn't matter to him at all. 

 

If the Gaudreau trade nets a first rounder, I can see them using one of the first rounders for Kuemper as he's cost certain for 2 seasons at 4.5. I'd still prefer to sign a UFA goalie, but I guess the idea is to save 1m over what Markstrom or any of the other goalies cost. Marstrom is probably going to be a 5.5 guy. 

 

I like your idea of Hanifin and Ryan for Kessel and Kuemper, but I think the first going there might be the ours and or one in a Gaudreau deal. 

I'd love it to be Kakko, or something like that for Johnny. But that Money and Johnny trade offer would be great too! 

 

 

[DirtyDeeds]

On 9/6/2020 at 8:40 PM, travel_dude said:

 

A commonly used phrase.

I have to ask, how often have great minds failed and tried the same thing until they got the right result?

 

This phrase is one of my pet peeves.

 

Oh and Einstein never said it.

 

Ask any sucessful Olympic Athlete and they will tell you it can take10's of thousands of hours practicing the same thing over and over again until it gets to a world class level.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

15 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

This phrase is one of my pet peeves.

 

Oh and Einstein never said it.

 

Ask any sucessful Olympic Athlete and they will tell you it can take10's of thousands of hours practicing the same thing over and over again until it gets to a world class level.

"Fear not the man who practiced 1000 kicks once, but the man who practiced 1 kick 1000 times" - Bruce Lee..........probably.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

I really think a good target for RD would be Cernak. Quite good at clearing out the front of the net and doesnt look overwhelmed for a young kid in a finals scenario.  Throw in someone like Mayfield or Pulok in a trade from the Isles and you have a D core that will more physical in their own end. Which was one thing that was dearly missing.

 

Gio - Ras

Hanifin - Pulok

Valimaki - Cernak

 

Obviously the positioning up and down the pairings may differ.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I really think a good target for RD would be Cernak. Quite good at clearing out the front of the net and doesnt look overwhelmed for a young kid in a finals scenario.  Throw in someone like Mayfield or Pulok in a trade from the Isles and you have a D core that will more physical in their own end. Which was one thing that was dearly missing.

 

Gio - Ras

Hanifin - Pulok

Valimaki - Cernak

 

Obviously the positioning up and down the pairings may differ.

 

I've been wanting Cernak as well.  However, when you study TB cap situation, they are losing all their RD this summer to UFA and Cernak is the one guy RFA.  He is their Rasmus Andersson... the only guy certain to return next season.  He's young and shouldn't break the bank on a new contract.  Not to mention, he's basically their #1 RD right now.  It will take a lot to get him.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I've been wanting Cernak as well.  However, when you study TB cap situation, they are losing all their RD this summer to UFA and Cernak is the one guy RFA.  He is their Rasmus Andersson... the only guy certain to return next season.  He's young and shouldn't break the bank on a new contract.  Not to mention, he's basically their #1 RD right now.  It will take a lot to get him.

You're prob right. It's starting to look like re-signing Brodie and just finding a replacement for Hammer might be the best course of action considering the right side options that will be available. As said by others maybe Parayko could be had, a much more achievable target than Peitro.

[MP5029]

7 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

You're prob right. It's starting to look like re-signing Brodie and just finding a replacement for Hammer might be the best course of action considering the right side options that will be available. As said by others maybe Parayko could be had, a much more achievable target than Peitro.

waht about Cicei? Would he not be a good hammer replacement? Not sure how much he would be but he is a UFA I think and would probably be an upgrade on Hammer...at least in terms of being a more rounded over all man? 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 hours ago, MP5029 said:

waht about Cicei? Would he not be a good hammer replacement? Not sure how much he would be but he is a UFA I think and would probably be an upgrade on Hammer...at least in terms of being a more rounded over all man? 

Ceci has had some pretty terrible numbers on some pretty terrible line ups, kinda hard to tell what to expect from him. I still like the idea of having a D-man with some grit and snarl in the line up.

[Thebrewcrew]

Analytically, Ceci isn't very good and if the Flames are as analytically inclined as most of us believe, he won't be a target. 

[MP5029]

12 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Ceci has had some pretty terrible numbers on some pretty terrible line ups, kinda hard to tell what to expect from him. I still like the idea of having a D-man with some grit and snarl in the line up.

exactly why I have brought his name up, also Him plus (either Brodie or someone close to Brodie’s ability) probably gonna be cheaper or about the same as AP.. this kinda 2 for one type deal plus upgrades the d grit 

[travel_dude]

57 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

exactly why I have brought his name up, also Him plus (either Brodie or someone close to Brodie’s ability) probably gonna be cheaper or about the same as AP.. this kinda 2 for one type deal plus upgrades the d grit 

 

Let me put it this way:

 

Brodie with a guy that is and can be bad does not come close to value of a true #1D.

Brodie by himself is actually a lot closer.