Goaltending

[conundrumed]

10 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

I agree with this. I would very much have liked to have seen him recently, and was surprised that he wasn't in. I think that he's actually an excellent goalie, and playing him doesn't hurt us. I have been very wrong about these things before, but I do think that he has the potential to be a very good starter in the NHL - sort of like Cam Talbot under King Henrik.

Love.

Dude. You're a center. Do you need nights off? Don't tell your goalie he needs a night off.

Especially if he doesn't want it.

Oh no, JG needs a night off....why does it apply only to goalies?

I'm a big fan of Sutter letting Markstrom know that it's his team.

Over-played. baah, I don't buy into that Satoshi Nakamoto. It's Markstrom's team.

He has to be our best player.

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

I agree with this. I would very much have liked to have seen him recently, and was surprised that he wasn't in. I think that he's actually an excellent goalie, and playing him doesn't hurt us. I have been very wrong about these things before, but I do think that he has the potential to be a very good starter in the NHL - sort of like Cam Talbot under King Henrik.

Love.

 

I think the Flames actually are a lot tighter in front of him.  They let Markstrom see a lot of shots from the outside.  What I like the most is that he is really good on 2 on 1's and breakaways.  He plays big in the net.  

 

It's funny, they may actually be managing the backup more than Markstrom right now.  They threw him to the wolves too often, so it may be about getting his confidence back.  That VAN game did nothing to help him any.  

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the Flames actually are a lot tighter in front of him.  They let Markstrom see a lot of shots from the outside.  What I like the most is that he is really good on 2 on 1's and breakaways.  He plays big in the net.  

 

It's funny, they may actually be managing the backup more than Markstrom right now.  They threw him to the wolves too often, so it may be about getting his confidence back.  That VAN game did nothing to help him any.  

I remember Sutter maybe 2 weeks ago saying he monitors Markstrom's minutes. I believe he meant hard vs soft vs avg minutes.

I don't really believe him.

@Heartbreaker

Sorry for being snappish.lol

I played C & D in my day before turning goalie at about 13-14.

I understand resting our past goalies like Talbot and Elliott. Sutter never rested Kipper or Quick. Markstrom is that level of goalie that we haven't seen since Miikka. It takes a whole other level of intensity and hate to play 60 mins without having a line change. Hence, goalies are a whole other breed.

I'm pretty sure Markstrom is calling the shots here. It's his team as much as it is Johnny's.

Interesting Markstrom doesn't really do interviews. Dude is zoned right in. Sit him (Sutter) at the risk of him spearing you.lol

So in all of that rant, Markstrom's playing attitude is unreal. This is his time to prove he's a top goalie and he's being all admirable and junk.

Don't rest that! Let him...

🔥 goalies are superfun to have.

[conundrumed]

I should add, imagine how great it is to be Dan Vladar right now.

He's only 24. You're the understudy for Markstrom. Great gig. Take some time.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I remember Sutter maybe 2 weeks ago saying he monitors Markstrom's minutes. I believe he meant hard vs soft vs avg minutes.

I don't really believe him.

@Heartbreaker

Sorry for being snappish.lol

I played C & D in my day before turning goalie at about 13-14.

I understand resting our past goalies like Talbot and Elliott. Sutter never rested Kipper or Quick. Markstrom is that level of goalie that we haven't seen since Miikka. It takes a whole other level of intensity and hate to play 60 mins without having a line change. Hence, goalies are a whole other breed.

I'm pretty sure Markstrom is calling the shots here. It's his team as much as it is Johnny's.

Interesting Markstrom doesn't really do interviews. Dude is zoned right in. Sit him (Sutter) at the risk of him spearing you.lol

So in all of that rant, Markstrom's playing attitude is unreal. This is his time to prove he's a top goalie and he's being all admirable and junk.

Don't rest that! Let him...

🔥 goalies are superfun to have.

kipper was also Satoshi Nakamoto in the playoffs when he didn’t get rest and the fans blamed him for letting in bad goals. I argued that if it weren’t for kipper there would be no playoffs. Goalies need rest. They have a different kind of tired, mental. Players have it easy. 
 

another thing you gotta remember is age. You were 13 when you went goalie. These guys are in good shape but getting older means getting tired easier. 
 

i dunno, he’s kind of had a good one and a bad one. I get it happens but it’s starting to happen more often. But that also coincides with team play breaking down too. 

[travel_dude]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I should add, imagine how great it is to be Dan Vladar right now.

He's only 24. You're the understudy for Markstrom. Great gig. Take some time.

 

I would add that Vladar has played all of 21 NHL games in his career.

16 were with the Flames, most during the fleshy middle of the season.

I want him to get more starts, but not at the expense of his confidence.

 

The top teams in the NHL are riding one goalie right now.

In the East, it's all about seeding.

In the West, it's about making the dance.

I want us to finish 1st, not have to play a team suddenly getting hot.

WC1 is probably our best bet for advancing.

We have to get there first.

[phoenix66]

While I am on board with the thought that you don't want to overplay your top guy when you have a backup perfectly capable.. I can see it from a different angle .

Your top guy is paid to win games, the difference comes when the team in front of him needs him to be Stellar to do it.

You need a goalie that can carry a team .but you always need a team that can carry the goalie on nights he doesn't have it .

Kipper didn't start showing cracks of fatigue until the team was not good without him..

Jonathan Quick I'm sure wouid not say he got burnt out during those runs .but he also wasn't a game changer every single night..

The fact we can put Vladar in and have him be successful is testament to the fact we have that team that can support a goalie..it's a plus when he plays great himself

 

So..yes I'd like to see Marky be fresh , I'm not overly concerned were burning him out 

 

On a side note , knowing this . And seeing how Wolf is lighting it up in the A, don't be surprised if they move on from Vladar this summer .. it will suck ..because he looks like he's starter quality ...but cap may dictate it

[cross16]

24 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

While I am on board with the thought that you don't want to overplay your top guy when you have a backup perfectly capable.. I can see it from a different angle .

Your top guy is paid to win games, the difference comes when the team in front of him needs him to be Stellar to do it.

You need a goalie that can carry a team .but you always need a team that can carry the goalie on nights he doesn't have it .

Kipper didn't start showing cracks of fatigue until the team was not good without him..

Jonathan Quick I'm sure wouid not say he got burnt out during those runs .but he also wasn't a game changer every single night..

The fact we can put Vladar in and have him be successful is testament to the fact we have that team that can support a goalie..it's a plus when he plays great himself

 

So..yes I'd like to see Marky be fresh , I'm not overly concerned were burning him out 

 

On a side note , knowing this . And seeing how Wolf is lighting it up in the A, don't be surprised if they move on from Vladar this summer .. it will suck ..because he looks like he's starter quality ...but cap may dictate it

 

Wolf actually would have the higher cap hit, albeit not by much. 

 

Vladar is signed for the minimum next year so you can't find a cheaper option. I will be shocked if they move Vladar because they won't have a more affordable option than him and they will likely need all the $ they can find. 

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

While I am on board with the thought that you don't want to overplay your top guy when you have a backup perfectly capable.. I can see it from a different angle .

Your top guy is paid to win games, the difference comes when the team in front of him needs him to be Stellar to do it.

You need a goalie that can carry a team .but you always need a team that can carry the goalie on nights he doesn't have it .

Kipper didn't start showing cracks of fatigue until the team was not good without him..

Jonathan Quick I'm sure wouid not say he got burnt out during those runs .but he also wasn't a game changer every single night..

The fact we can put Vladar in and have him be successful is testament to the fact we have that team that can support a goalie..it's a plus when he plays great himself

 

So..yes I'd like to see Marky be fresh , I'm not overly concerned were burning him out 

 

On a side note , knowing this . And seeing how Wolf is lighting it up in the A, don't be surprised if they move on from Vladar this summer .. it will suck ..because he looks like he's starter quality ...but cap may dictate it

 

Saros is about the best comp I could find for Wolfie.  Smaller goalie.  Nash was able to use him gingerly to start.  Full year in the AHL, then 15 games in the AHL his 2nd year.  There is no rush to bring him in, but ideally he makes his debut while Marky is still the starter with 60 games played.  

 

Next year will be interesting.  It looks like Vladar is waiver eligible, so we would need to carry 3 goalies if we want to start Wolf.  I don't see that happening.  We only have a small sample size of Vladar, so we may be looking at a Demko like player or a Rittich.  Or a Gillies.  With that, I suggest that we only we only worry about using Wof if we find Vladar can't even be relied upon as a backup.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Wolf has the higher cap hit, albeit not by much but Vladar signed a very affordable deal. I will be shocked if the Flames move him because of that reason, they can't really get a cheaper option. 

It's a very nice problem to have!

[cross16]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

It's a very nice problem to have!

 

Very.

 

Vladar was a low key move but honestly it was one of the Flames best last summer. The market for backup goalies has gotten crazy the last few offseason and at the cost of only a 3rd round he found an above avg option to play for the minimum for 2 years. Probably saving themselves at least 500-750K on the cap. 

 

Tidy business. 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Very.

 

Vladar was a low key move but honestly it was one of the Flames best last summer. The market for backup goalies has gotten crazy the last few offseason and at the cost of only a 3rd round he found an above avg option to play for the minimum for 2 years. Probably saving themselves at least 500-750K on the cap. 

 

Tidy business. 

 

I liked Rittich, but he was getting too expensive for what we needed, which was a backup.

He wants to be at least a 1B.

Other than maybe one or two games, Vladar has been solid.

I can't really blame him for the VAN game either.

The team was crap.

Sure, he could have looked a little better, but it was really a one off.

[phoenix66]

21 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Wolf actually would have the higher cap hit, albeit not by much. 

 

Vladar is signed for the minimum next year so you can't find a cheaper option. I will be shocked if they move Vladar because they won't have a more affordable option than him and they will likely need all the $ they can find. 

Oh good catch..for some reason could have sworn he was Ufa this year .. so ya he's def not moving then 

[conundrumed]

It's going to make for an interesting preseason with Wolf vs Vladar.

Wolf will be just 21yo so I reckon another year in the A for him?

Give him a few callups to put some $$ in his pocket.

It's pretty exciting at G for us now. We'll see how Sergeev fairs at UConn, He's just 19.

Then there's Chechelev who's 21yo and we'll see what he is.

Just last year I thought our G depth was a black hole. Now we have layers of goalie prospects. It's almost surreal how quickly it's gone from a D- to an A. Good work by BT with the signings and getting the Russians to NA.

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Oh good catch..for some reason could have sworn he was Ufa this year .. so ya he's def not moving then 

 

Unless we ride three goalies in the 1st week and Wolf is breaking down the door? We could recoup that 3rd we gave up and possibly upgrade it if Vladar has some more good games?

[robrob74]

20 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

It's going to make for an interesting preseason with Wolf vs Vladar.

Wolf will be just 21yo so I reckon another year in the A for him?

Give him a few callups to put some $$ in his pocket.

It's pretty exciting at G for us now. We'll see how Sergeev fairs at UConn, He's just 19.

Then there's Chechelev who's 21yo and we'll see what he is.

Just last year I thought our G depth was a black hole. Now we have layers of goalie prospects. It's almost surreal how quickly it's gone from a D- to an A. Good work by BT with the signings and getting the Russians to NA.

 

It seems like they just started investing in that goalie plan around then. Maybe a year before that when some of these young goalies are unknowns so seemingly insignificant. And how the Flames floundered until we landed Markstrom, there was no real plan until then. They had some darts and threw them at  Rittich and hoped for Gillies or Parsons. But the NHL level's plan was a slow process. Much like building the bottom 6 or 4th line properly.

[travel_dude]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

It seems like they just started investing in that goalie plan around then. Maybe a year before that when some of these young goalies are unknowns so seemingly insignificant. And how the Flames floundered until we landed Markstrom, there was no real plan until then. They had some darts and threw them at  Rittich and hoped for Gillies or Parsons. But the NHL level's plan was a slow process. Much like building the bottom 6 or 4th line properly.

 

You can't really fault the Gillies or Parsons selections.  Swing and a miss.  It happens.  The unfortunate side effect was less darts thrown for other goalies (Mac vs Demko didn't even come close to dart board).  They should pick a goalie every year, some late ones, and every couple of years a higher rated one.  We really should have picked Wallstedt this year, but I can't really say we missed with Coronato.  Not sure why EDM passed on him.   

 

I think the mistake we made was not bringing in a backup to Rittich and used him like one at times.  Wasting time with Smith and Dadbot.  Talbot played well, but he was washed up at that point, so all we were getting was another project.  They ruined a Rittich that way.  Prior to that a bunch of nothing.  After that Marky.  He may not age that well, but he's been the best thing for this team.  A real starter.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

You can't really fault the Gillies or Parsons selections.  Swing and a miss.  It happens.  The unfortunate side effect was less darts thrown for other goalies (Mac vs Demko didn't even come close to dart board).  They should pick a goalie every year, some late ones, and every couple of years a higher rated one.  We really should have picked Wallstedt this year, but I can't really say we missed with Coronato.  Not sure why EDM passed on him.   

 

I think the mistake we made was not bringing in a backup to Rittich and used him like one at times.  Wasting time with Smith and Dadbot.  Talbot played well, but he was washed up at that point, so all we were getting was another project.  They ruined a Rittich that way.  Prior to that a bunch of nothing.  After that Marky.  He may not age that well, but he's been the best thing for this team.  A real starter.

Detroit took Cossa first and their Swede scouting is likely the best in the league. So something doesn't add up for me.

[robrob74]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You can't really fault the Gillies or Parsons selections.  Swing and a miss.  It happens.  The unfortunate side effect was less darts thrown for other goalies (Mac vs Demko didn't even come close to dart board).  They should pick a goalie every year, some late ones, and every couple of years a higher rated one.  We really should have picked Wallstedt this year, but I can't really say we missed with Coronato.  Not sure why EDM passed on him.   

 

I think the mistake we made was not bringing in a backup to Rittich and used him like one at times.  Wasting time with Smith and Dadbot.  Talbot played well, but he was washed up at that point, so all we were getting was another project.  They ruined a Rittich that way.  Prior to that a bunch of nothing.  After that Marky.  He may not age that well, but he's been the best thing for this team.  A real starter.

 

And Injuries might have derailed both Gillies and Parson's development. It must be hard to have mental health issues if you're a goalie, might play with the mental side (puck tracking and engagement).

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Detroit took Cossa first and their Swede scouting is likely the best in the league. So something doesn't add up for me.

 

Are they good at analyzing goalies? (EDITED IN) Our scouts seem to be good at finding players in the margins and taking chances on certain skill than on other qualities. It's why I asked, that some scouts are good at skaters, and not goalies? Like our scouting for goalies has been horrible!

 

I wonder. 

 

Moving Sigelet into consulting might have changed a lot. Maybe he's good at seeing the talent, but not that great at developing or coaching it?

[travel_dude]

Just now, conundrumed said:

Detroit took Cossa first and their Swede scouting is likely the best in the league. So something doesn't add up for me.

 

I'm not saying they are right or wrong.  Cossa is huge and has a great record for a big goalie.  Wally is doing well in the SHL.  DET got the guy they wanted.  It must have caused a bunch of GM/scouts to ask WTF?  Askarov has fallen out of the limelight now too.  Was supposed to be the great one, but starting to look more like a bust so far.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Are they good at analyzing goalies? (EDITED IN) Our scouts seem to be good at finding players in the margins and taking chances on certain skill than on other qualities. It's why I asked, that some scouts are good at skaters, and not goalies? Like our scouting for goalies has been horrible!

 

I wonder. 

 

Moving Sigelet into consulting might have changed a lot. Maybe he's good at seeing the talent, but not that great at developing or coaching it?

 

You have to wonder.  Once we brought in Labarbara, things seemed to change.  Rittich was basically ruined by coaching decisions.  Blame applies to Wardo for that, but he would be listening to JS.  And I think some things that JS suggested made Rittich worse, like playing the puck like Mikey.  

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not saying they are right or wrong.  Cossa is huge and has a great record for a big goalie.  Wally is doing well in the SHL.  DET got the guy they wanted.  It must have caused a bunch of GM/scouts to ask WTF?  Askarov has fallen out of the limelight now too.  Was supposed to be the great one, but starting to look more like a bust so far.

I've seen why with Askarov. Some of the worst basics I've seen. Makes me wonder if that is Wallstedt too, but uncertain.

The NHL will never see another Hasek. It just doesn't fly these days imho.

[travel_dude]

Just now, conundrumed said:

I've seen why with Askarov. Some of the worst basics I've seen. Makes me wonder if that is Wallstedt too, but uncertain.

The NHL will never see another Hasek. It just doesn't fly these days imho.

 

The things that Button went on about just seemed to fade.  He never looked impressive at the WJC.  And he's dropped from KHL to VHL, which is not a good look.  I was never a fan, nor thought he would become anything.  I have similar doubts to Cossa, but I won't go on about them here.  He's tailed off this year in the WHL, so not sure what's up there.  

[cross16]

22 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I've seen why with Askarov. Some of the worst basics I've seen. Makes me wonder if that is Wallstedt too, but uncertain.

The NHL will never see another Hasek. It just doesn't fly these days imho.

 

Agreed. Too much coaching and structure at young levels now. I don't think a coach would let you get by and pure athleticism like Hasek did. 

 

I don't really agree that there wasn't a plan here because what have they done differently? they've always drafted goalies they just finally hit on one. They pursued many via trade and FA and they finally got a match in Markstrom. 

 

process hasn't really changed just the result which IMO speaks to the volatility of the position.