Call Ups

[stubblejumper1]

27 minutes ago, flames for life said:

In the meantime, Phillips gets played like a pawn.  He is brought up, played a couple of games, press box for most of the time, compromising his stats at the Ahl level, and possibly affecting any bonus monies he may have been working towards.

All in all, pretty much a waste of his time.  Not very respectful, in my book.

The only gain was to practise with the team.

 

I agree, they aren't treating him well but the money he made while up in the nhl probably more than offsets any ahl bonuses.  He makes $750k in the nhl and $140k in the minors. 

[cross16]

Phillips isn’t eligible for performance bonuses so his contract would not have any, be it at the NHl or AHL level 
 

it’s well worth his time financially to be at the nhl level vs AHL. 

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Phillips isn’t eligible for performance bonuses so his contract would not have any, be it at the NHl or AHL level 
 

it’s well worth his time financially to be at the nhl level vs AHL. 

Yeah it's a bit of a shame he wasn't allowed much ice time but so it goes. Everyone else for call-up (that might be good enough) are generally too young. Good Xmas bonus for Phillips.

[flames for life]

38 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah it's a bit of a shame he wasn't allowed much ice time but so it goes. Everyone else for call-up (that might be good enough) are generally too young. Good Xmas bonus for Phillips.

I would still like to see him given a fair amount of games to either make it, or break it.  Not on the 4th line, but in a position that makes sense.

[pikey7883]

54 minutes ago, flames for life said:

I would still like to see him given a fair amount of games to either make it, or break it.  Not on the 4th line, but in a position that makes sense.

Like a 3rd/4th line that plays with pace?

I suggest Dube-Ruzie-Phillips

 

Top Line of:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

2nd:

Looch🤬-Kadri-Lewis (mostly cuz I haven’t been happy with Looch and Kadri, like a punishment, lol)

3rd:

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

[flames for life]

8 hours ago, pikey7883 said:

Like a 3rd/4th line that plays with pace?

I suggest Dube-Ruzie-Phillips

 

Top Line of:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli

2nd:

Looch🤬-Kadri-Lewis (mostly cuz I haven’t been happy with Looch and Kadri, like a punishment, lol)

3rd:

Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

I would like to try Kadri with Rozie and Phillips.  It creates a fast line with skill.  The downside is that Rozie is playing fairly well on the 4th, with Lewis and Richie.  Putting Lucic back there puts an anchor on the line.

[MP5029]

20 hours ago, flames for life said:

I would like to try Kadri with Rozie and Phillips.  It creates a fast line with skill.  The downside is that Rozie is playing fairly well on the 4th, with Lewis and Richie.  Putting Lucic back there puts an anchor on the line.

I would like to

try Kadri on the wing 

[travel_dude]

Zohorna back up, no Phillips.

The experiment is over.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

Calling up Phillips ended up being nothing more than some extra money in his wallet.

 

It's gonna take injuries to the top 6 for him to get another chance. If he even gets another chance again.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Calling up Phillips ended up being nothing more than some extra money in his wallet.

 

It's gonna take injuries to the top 6 for him to get another chance. If he even gets another chance again.

 

This has to be the worst possible move.  Not the demotion but the 2nd call up.

What is the message you want to say?

A waiver claim for a guy headed to the AHL who clered after we claimed him.

More important to the team than the guys we drafted and developed?

[conundrumed]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

This has to be the worst possible move.  Not the demotion but the 2nd call up.

What is the message you want to say?

A waiver claim for a guy headed to the AHL who clered after we claimed him.

More important to the team than the guys we drafted and developed?

Is what is. We're just tourists.lol

But we don't really need another smaller fwd falling down all of the time. He's not better than Mang or Dube, so here we are. There really isn't anyone for him to replace.

We should trade him though so he can get an opportunity to play somewhere. It won't be here.

[conundrumed]

Food for thought.

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Food for thought.

 

 

And we fired that coach, right?  LOL

That was also Ras' first pro season and the end of the season he played.

The player dev path for every player is different, especially for D.

But I am neither going to justify it for Sutter nor complain that much.

He's a good coach.

Does he have a good track recird for developing young players?

Can't think of any on this team.

 

 

[jjgallow]

On 1/18/2023 at 7:15 PM, travel_dude said:

 

And we fired that coach, right?  LOL

That was also Ras' first pro season and the end of the season he played.

The player dev path for every player is different, especially for D.

But I am neither going to justify it for Sutter nor complain that much.

He's a good coach.

Does he have a good track recird for developing young players?

Can't think of any on this team.

 

 

 

I actually think Sutter would be a great coach on a rebuilding team.

 

Take the choice away from him.  Everyone's young, everyone's developing.

 

Watcha gonna do?

 

I think he'd be great.  But it would be stressful for him lol.     Basically any situation where there is explosive young talent that absolutely cannot be ignored, I think he would actually be good.   It's the guys in that gray area where he is not helpful when he has the choice of vets on any given game.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I actually think Sutter would be a great coach on a rebuilding team.

 

Take the choice away from him.  Everyone's young, everyone's developing.

 

Watcha gonna do?

 

I think he'd be great.  But it would be stressful for him lol.     Basically any situation where there is explosive young talent that absolutely cannot be ignored, I think he would actually be good.   It's the guys in that gray area where he is not helpful when he has the choice of vets on any given game.

 

Well no, not "rebuilding" but he would be a good coach for a team exiting a rebuild and hoping to enter contender status with loads of young talent that cannot be ignored.

 

For rebuilding, we need a coach who will be okay to lose games and give young kids ice time to develop.

 

If Sutter coached a rebuilding team, then that team will never tank successfully.

[sak22]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well no, not "rebuilding" but he would be a good coach for a team exiting a rebuild and hoping to enter contender status with loads of young talent that cannot be ignored.

 

For rebuilding, we need a coach who will be okay to lose games and give young kids ice time to develop.

 

If Sutter coached a rebuilding team, then that team will never tank successfully.

This does not exist though.  There isn't a coach out there that takes a job to lose and risk never getting a head coaching job again, and I think most successful rebuilds you will point to go through 2-3 head coaches.  Sutter's tenure in San Jose is one of the more recent examples of a coach taking on a rebuild and getting to see it through.  Sutter took over a team that had 62 points and drafted Marleau 2nd overall, he made the playoffs the first year with 78 points which wouldn't qualify these days and that team got better each year, not cup good but they were drafting Marleau and Stuart who were good players but not Stamkos and Hedman or Crosby and Malkin.

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, sak22 said:

This does not exist though.  There isn't a coach out there that takes a job to lose and risk never getting a head coaching job again, and I think most successful rebuilds you will point to go through 2-3 head coaches.  Sutter's tenure in San Jose is one of the more recent examples of a coach taking on a rebuild and getting to see it through.  Sutter took over a team that had 62 points and drafted Marleau 2nd overall, he made the playoffs the first year with 78 points which wouldn't qualify these days and that team got better each year, not cup good but they were drafting Marleau and Stuart who were good players but not Stamkos and Hedman or Crosby and Malkin.

My ex-boss, who is also a close friend, his son played with Stuart in Regina. To this day, Brad Stuart had the most lethal shot anyone had ever seen. It is zero wonder he was a high pick. He also ripped his passes, which were more often than not too hot to handle. Biggest knock on him. When 25mph would suffice, he's sending it 60mph.

I don't know if it still applies, but some contracts used to be micro-focused right down to your turnovers. If you're getting the puck and rifling a pass off of a teammates stick, it's not your turnover.

Hard to believe, but I've heard that story a few times about Dmen. It was a stat used against them in contract negotiations, and even a clause in some cases.

Take that for what it's worth, but I've heard that from a few different directions. Unsure if I heard that with Stuart, but same era. I just can't remember. The name triggered me, so I think probably.

I know that's bizarre, but yeah, I have no doubt that it was a thing. I have a few different sources about that.

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well no, not "rebuilding" but he would be a good coach for a team exiting a rebuild and hoping to enter contender status with loads of young talent that cannot be ignored.

 

For rebuilding, we need a coach who will be okay to lose games and give young kids ice time to develop.

 

If Sutter coached a rebuilding team, then that team will never tank successfully.

Here's my take on Sutter and young players.

First, how many has he seen fail? A thousand realistically?

I think he's their dad. He doesn't want them to fail  So come hell or high water or media storm, he waits and lets everyone else tell him his business. That's gotta be fun for a farmer..

It's not because he loves the vets, he's just buying time for the kids and he's always hands on with them.

Case in point, Dube. There is little question in his remark, "some players came up too early", he meant Dube.

Yet he spent all of his time running Dube all over the map for fwds.

I think Dube is a fave for him. His job is to give kids a fighting chance and I like how he does it.

"Get better at everything".lol

For Phillips and all of that animosity, I'm sure he's trying to help Phillips, but he won't just throw him to the wolves.

He can make them or break them, and I'm sure that he knows that better than anyone.

My guess is that he's trying to 'encourage' Zary to be an NHLer next and he'll likely succeed.

The whole, "Sutter doesn't like young players" thing is silly imho. Media vengeance junk that doesn't match the script.

He wants them to succeed and has seen way too many examples of how that can go south, unlike, of course, the media personalities. We're in really good hands with our prospects imho. Phillips isn't ready if we need to argue it. His size and strength IS a factor, that isn't Sutter's fault.

For me, there is a lot of noise around Sutter being this way, but not much substance.

The NHL is a far cry from the A. Especially the huge uptick in the skills of teammates. Everything moves a lot faster than the sloppy AHL. There aren't 50 mistakes/game to capitalize on. Huge difference.

Which brings us to Pelletier....I don't think Zary is that far behind him, personally. I think he'll be Sutter's next kid to bring along. Always keeps him late in camp.

That's my rant during slow times. Sutter went on the road with the Wranglers for the break. He's clearly got his finger on the pulse.

I think the reputation's pretty fake. But fun.

 

[jjgallow]

10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well no, not "rebuilding" but he would be a good coach for a team exiting a rebuild and hoping to enter contender status with loads of young talent that cannot be ignored.

 

For rebuilding, we need a coach who will be okay to lose games and give young kids ice time to develop.

 

If Sutter coached a rebuilding team, then that team will never tank successfully.

 

love it lol

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

For Phillips and all of that animosity, I'm sure he's trying to help Phillips, but he won't just throw him to the wolves.

He can make them or break them, and I'm sure that he knows that better than anyone.

My guess is that he's trying to 'encourage' Zary to be an NHLer next and he'll likely succeed.

The whole, "Sutter doesn't like young players" thing is silly imho. Media vengeance junk that doesn't match the script.

He wants them to succeed and has seen way too many examples of how that can go south, unlike, of course, the media personalities. We're in really good hands with our prospects imho. Phillips isn't ready if we need to argue it. His size and strength IS a factor, that isn't Sutter's fault.

For me, there is a lot of noise around Sutter being this way, but not much substance.

The NHL is a far cry from the A. Especially the huge uptick in the skills of teammates. Everything moves a lot faster than the sloppy AHL. There aren't 50 mistakes/game to capitalize on. Huge difference.

 

I don't know that Phillips had a bad set of games or not.  It's hard to get a read on a player in limited play situations.  Was he there to play with Backlund and learn the D side of the game?  Perhaps.  Not a bad strategy, but his forte is a goalscorer.  I won't belabor the discussion about the player, since he's not really suited for the NHL team.  Top 6 RW or C is about where he would best fit, but no way he gets that assignment without plodding in the bottom 6.  

 

Sutter is looking for roles for the players.  That's sort of the problem.

Not everyone fits the role he needs.

 

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't know that Phillips had a bad set of games or not.  It's hard to get a read on a player in limited play situations.  Was he there to play with Backlund and learn the D side of the game?  Perhaps.  Not a bad strategy, but his forte is a goalscorer.  I won't belabor the discussion about the player, since he's not really suited for the NHL team.  Top 6 RW or C is about where he would best fit, but no way he gets that assignment without plodding in the bottom 6.  

 

Sutter is looking for roles for the players.  That's sort of the problem.

Not everyone fits the role he needs.

 

I'm not picking up what you're laying down. I think a guy around the league most of his life knows what young players need to succeed. Phillips needs work. Want him in your top 6? Go for it. Not ours.

I get why Pelletier can, he's way better. So is Zary.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Well no, not "rebuilding" but he would be a good coach for a team exiting a rebuild and hoping to enter contender status with loads of young talent that cannot be ignored.

 

For rebuilding, we need a coach who will be okay to lose games and give young kids ice time to develop.

 

If Sutter coached a rebuilding team, then that team will never tank successfully.

I think that decision starts with upper mgmt and ownership.  When "good enough to make a couple bucks" seems to be the goal then theres no use trying to steer it in any other direction.

[travel_dude]

42 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'm not picking up what you're laying down. I think a guy around the league most of his life knows what young players need to succeed. Phillips needs work. Want him in your top 6? Go for it. Not ours.

I get why Pelletier can, he's way better. So is Zary.

 

Phillips is a work in progress.  Not sure if there was enough runway to really know where he is.  It's not like the Flames are so convincingly awesome in the top 6 that I wouldn't take a longer look.  I saw some decent shifts from him as well as some meh ones.  Sutter may have even given him a plan to work on in the AHL.  Anyway, we have new fish to fry.

 

The reality is that you can't have Pelletier, Ruzicka, and Phillips up in the top 6 on any given night.  One or two may belong there.  One may play there way up to that point in a game.  Let's see how these two work out.  

 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Phillips is a work in progress.  Not sure if there was enough runway to really know where he is.  It's not like the Flames are so convincingly awesome in the top 6 that I wouldn't take a longer look.  I saw some decent shifts from him as well as some meh ones.  Sutter may have even given him a plan to work on in the AHL.  Anyway, we have new fish to fry.

 

The reality is that you can't have Pelletier, Ruzicka, and Phillips up in the top 6 on any given night.  One or two may belong there.  One may play there way up to that point in a game.  Let's see how these two work out.  

 

But there is time. Rushing it gets us nowhere. Not ready is not ready. Why force it when you don't have to?

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I think that decision starts with upper mgmt and ownership.  When "good enough to make a couple bucks" seems to be the goal then theres no use trying to steer it in any other direction.

What's the climate in the 'peg? Does everyone want "all in"?