Call Ups

[flames for life]

33 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

yup! I've been a firm believer that you gotta try those guys with guys in positions you expect them to play with in the line up. If he meshes, he's breaking down the door....

 

I look at Morrison, Bertuzzi and Naslund. I feel Morrison was a 2nd line C and they propped him up as a 1st liner.... with them he was, much like Lindholm last year. 

Totally agree, except for Lucic’s focus.  I don’t think it’s focus.  I just think the game is now too fast for him.  He is aging; his body is aging; his reflexes are aging, etc.  

just another reason to bring up Zary and another strong power forward type for him to mentor.  Our fourth line needs more energy, speed and skill set.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

It all comes down to you don’t really know until you try. Camp squads were, here’s the NHL team, here’s the AHL team.

Is that an indicator that there really isn’t much of a chance?

Lucic needs to sit. His best pass all year was to the ARI fwd the other night. I hope he comes around, but he shouldn’t be playing every night right now, he’s been a detriment too often.

Not harping on him, but he needs to get more focus in his game.

I’m kinda with cross, Zary won’t hurt by comparison.

Gotta try new things. I feel like we keep trying to fit squares into circles, relentlessly.

 

I felt the lines were fixed from day 1.  Group 2 was just to spread out the NHL talent a bit.

Maybe the younuns didn't have great camps, but not exactly sure what look ws given to them.

Play with the AHL guys or our 4th line RW.

 

Milano is a perfect example of why camps mean little.

Coach called out all the tweeners and him.

He fit in with WAS.

Maybe never a 40 point guy or even a fit here, but wouldn't be as bad as 4th has played.

 

Sutter is being stubborn.

Called out in the media and he just reverts to snipes at the media.

I get it, you know best, but maybe just say something that gives players hope.

He says he watches the Wranglers a lot.

Is he just judging from what the goals look like and think "couldn't do that in the NHL"?

Phillips outscore Leivo in the AHL last year.

If that's true, how is Leivo in the NHL and Phillips isn't,

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

yup! I've been a firm believer that you gotta try those guys with guys in positions you expect them to play with in the line up. If he meshes, he's breaking down the door....

 

I look at Morrison, Bertuzzi and Naslund. I feel Morrison was a 2nd line C and they propped him up as a 1st liner.... with them he was, much like Lindholm last year. 

That's the logical thing to do, if you are looking for internal options.

Zary got a reasonable look, but they wanted to send him down to continue development.

The other guys not so much.

Poirier got a good look, but there wasn't room.

 

So, Sutter is looking at options now (maybe).

The 4th line sucks.

Has three guys that are high offence playing in the AHL.

Is he going to call up any of those guys for the 4th line?  Doubt it.

If the top 9 wasn't set, I could see him trying out a guy for a game or two.

 

[sak22]

I think the Darryl hates young players is way overblown because he criticized a 23 and 22 year old in his first month back here.  This is also a guy who criticized a 20 year old Tyler Toffoli and now sings his praises non stop, remember that 70's line in 2014 made up of 21 year olds Toffoli and Pearson, or his first cup when he won with Slava Voynov who was even younger and less experienced than compared to Valimaki, Voynov got lots of minutes in that first run.  Do we forget Darryl Sutter V.1 here when Dion Phaneuf quickly jumped the depth chart or when Lombardi quickly became the #2C.  I think he is the way he is to the media because the media and certain fans feel the need to coddle, but if a young player gets a chance and plays well he will continue see our current goaltending situation.

 

Having said that I do think there is a problem with Sutter and we saw it in his V.1 in 2004.  Loyalty, Sutter became the coach in 2003 and his first order of business was bringing Dave Lowry up to the big club, he was okay to finish that season but was toast in 2004, Lucic is 2023's Dave Lowry with the only difference being that Lucic hasn't suffered injuries that would take him out of the lineup.  If Lowry didn't get hurt that season I don't think he would've ever been scratched and he was painful to watch when he did play.  I think it'll take injuries to get any kids up, but if they capitalize when up they will stay up and I believe Sutter's history will indicate that.

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, sak22 said:

I think the Darryl hates young players is way overblown because he criticized a 23 and 22 year old in his first month back here. 

 

Not so much hates them as much as he is not going to give them any leeway.

If you don't have a great camp, you are not going to get a game unless we have big holes.

If you don't have NHL experience, then you won't get the benefit of the doubt that they can make the transition.

I don't know if you can look at the Kings cup run as being trusting.

Toffoli called up for 10 the year before.

Played most of the cup season in the NHL.

 

It's catch 22.

Sutter needs a push or have an injury where one of the top AHL players fits the spot.

Could he replace Ritchie with Phillips or Lucic with Pelletier?

Of course, but I doubt he considers it.

[robrob74]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not so much hates them as much as he is not going to give them any leeway.

If you don't have a great camp, you are not going to get a game unless we have big holes.

If you don't have NHL experience, then you won't get the benefit of the doubt that they can make the transition.

I don't know if you can look at the Kings cup run as being trusting.

Toffoli called up for 10 the year before.

Played most of the cup season in the NHL.

 

It's catch 22.

Sutter needs a push or have an injury where one of the top AHL players fits the spot.

Could he replace Ritchie with Phillips or Lucic with Pelletier?

Of course, but I doubt he considers it.

 

another thing about the team is, guys tend to play through injuries and can block prospects getting a shot. Admiral but still can block development. 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

another thing about the team is, guys tend to play through injuries and can block prospects getting a shot. Admiral but still can block development. 

 

Less this year I suspect.

Very few players take maintenance days.

Tanev does from time to time.

Backlund the odd one.

Overall, I don't think the minor injuries are anything unusual for this team.

Ritchie is out because of injury.

Not enough to go on IR.

 

I am okay with players playing through small things.

Not Monahan like issues though.

His buddy knew he was bad off.

Against the Oilers, Tanev should never have played a minute.

He was unable to do the job.

Perhaps Kylington was rushed back, because he never looked the same.

2 injuries, one being a concussion. 

[conundrumed]

Speaking of Kylington….should we just forget that he’s even an option?

[sak22]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not so much hates them as much as he is not going to give them any leeway.

If you don't have a great camp, you are not going to get a game unless we have big holes.

If you don't have NHL experience, then you won't get the benefit of the doubt that they can make the transition.

I don't know if you can look at the Kings cup run as being trusting.

Toffoli called up for 10 the year before.

Played most of the cup season in the NHL.

 

It's catch 22.

Sutter needs a push or have an injury where one of the top AHL players fits the spot.

Could he replace Ritchie with Phillips or Lucic with Pelletier?

Of course, but I doubt he considers it.

It's the situation, look around the league Dave Hakstol's a lame duck hire so he's not putting all his energy in giving Shane Wright 15+ minutes a game regardless of performance. he needs results in the standings to help get another job after this.  If your expectations are draft lottery you get leeway, if its playoffs you don't.  When Sutter coached a rebuilding Sharks team Marleau, Stuart, Sturm, etc. were all treated the same as they would anywhere else.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, sak22 said:

It's the situation, look around the league Dave Hakstol's a lame duck hire so he's not putting all his energy in giving Shane Wright 15+ minutes a game regardless of performance. he needs results in the standings to help get another job after this.  If your expectations are draft lottery you get leeway, if its playoffs you don't.  When Sutter coached a rebuilding Sharks team Marleau, Stuart, Sturm, etc. were all treated the same as they would anywhere else.

 

Well, SEA is being run by Francis.

I think they want him to go back down to junior.

Want him to play at WJC.

It's a long term approach for a team that is building.

 

But, Sutter is no looking outside the lineup.

He's not really considering anyone not playing or has played.

But I do think he underestimates the strength of the AHL.

Is a over a P/GP player in the AHL able to put up about 0.4 p/gp in the NHL?

The NHL e factor is 0.389 would give Phillips about 12 points.

That is top 9 in scoring on this team.

It's not an exact science, but it says that perhaps Sutter can't admit it.

[jjgallow]

18 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Unfortunately, it starts at the very very top.  Ownership is chasing a Cup and is clearly in win-now mode.  Almost all of our players on the roster are in their prime (and some are past their prime) but it's now or never.  The kids, well, they can either wait or they are trade bait.

 

Agree or disagree with the orders from the very very top, this will either result in,

1. A Cup win.  After which, the team's play quickly falls off a cliff.

2. Team falls off a cliff without a Cup.  Core players get old.  Best prospects and picks traded away.  No bluechippers coming up the system for years, etc.  It will be the waning Iginla/Kipper years all over again.

 

I think we can rule out #1 since they failed to provision defencemen or goaltenders or age diversity.

 

I would be okay with #2, except for the fact that they have tried so hard to avoid #2, it's going to be like an explosion when it happens.

 

Same thing as when we try to avoid #2 in everyday life.

 

When we fall off that cliff, normally you would have some incredible prospects coming up to look forward to and have hope in.   We're highly unlikely to have that with how our picks have been gutted and mismanaged.  If Oil keeps dropping and we enter a recession and ownership no longer wishes to spend the cap, it will be Especially brutal.   This has happened to us before.

 

All these efforts to kick the can forward will come full circle.  It's not going to be fun for a few years.   

 

I wait though, I plan on living for a while yet.   I just hope this is the last time we repeat the cycle.   I hope that this time the organisation finally matures.

[redfire11]

On Suters line usage. 

On a lot of 4th line shifts Lucic Lewis Ritchie are doing what the 4th line should be designed to do. They are forcing a face off in the Offensive zone. They do this by shooting from the blue line on the goalie then pressuring him to hold it. Or they are tying  up the puck behind the net. 

The problem here lies Suter leaves that line out there when he has 3 offensive lines he could create a scoring chance with. Transition to defense is what is showing our 4th line speed deficiency's. 

Watch tonight Lucic/Lewis will long shot it into Fleury and stop the play and Suter will leave the 4th line out there. 

[cross16]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Speaking of Kylington….should we just forget that he’s even an option?

unfortunately, yes I think we should. 

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, redfire11 said:

On Suters line usage. 

On a lot of 4th line shifts Lucic Lewis Ritchie are doing what the 4th line should be designed to do. They are forcing a face off in the Offensive zone. They do this by shooting from the blue line on the goalie then pressuring him to hold it. Or they are tying  up the puck behind the net. 

The problem here lies Suter leaves that line out there when he has 3 offensive lines he could create a scoring chance with. Transition to defense is what is showing our 4th line speed deficiency's. 

Watch tonight Lucic/Lewis will long shot it into Fleury and stop the play and Suter will leave the 4th line out there. 

I have two peoblems with their usage.

One is that they start after we have shifted momentum and they lose it once they lose the O zone.

The second is that they get benched for poor play, then double their minutes in the 3rd period in a close game.

 

There are two types of 4th lines.

One is like ours.

The other is an energy line that [ressures, skates and gets chances.

We lose some grit by going to the 2nd type of line.

But we also don't lose foot races and D-zone play as much.

[CheersMan]

Tough night for ARI and particularly Valimaki last night, he looks to have driven straight over a spike belt, with 4 flat tires. No sense pumping these ones up. "BAY 6/7, 4 NEW TIRES ALL AROUND! And let’s have fun doing it".

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

Tough night for ARI and particularly Valimaki last night, he looks to have driven straight over a spike belt, with 4 flat tires. No sense pumping these ones up. "BAY 6/7, 4 NEW TIRES ALL AROUND! And let’s have fun doing it".

 

Pretty hard to win a game with that goalie in nets.

Oilers had 5 PP's.

Ingram is not a NHL goalie.

[cross16]

and there it is....

 

interesting to see how this is going to play out

 

 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

and there it is....

 

interesting to see how this is going to play out

 

 

 

Holy Hanna.

Seeing the minutes played by the 4th line, it would appear to be that's where he is envisioned.

I stand corrected.

But, it's also possible that he plays in Dube's spot.

Dube is capable of playing at C (so is Phillips I guess).

I don't know that you mess with the 2nd line, since they seem to have chemistry.

But Phillips on the 4th line is also weird.

[travel_dude]

It's an interesting development.

Have one roster spot available, but doesn't make sense to carry 2 extras.

Does this mean we are waiving one of the 4th line guys like Rooney?

He's not able to stick in the lineup and doesn't seem to fit with the other players.

But I wouldn't say he is the worst of the bunch.

[Heartbreaker]

RAD!

 

Love.

[travel_dude]

 

[travel_dude]

At this point I am not going to read much into the recall.

Ritchie was a little banged up.

Having a extra body on a short 3 game road trip makes sense.

But, the road trip is against teams that are not big hitting teams.

We don't need to put Gaudreau into the 2nd row.

We need players that can skate with pace.

 

Let's see what the practice lines look like first.

Could be a perfect game to get him into the NHL against CBJ.

Could use some PP skill.

Backlund didn't see a second of PP time last night.

They also didn't look good on the 2nd unit.

[LouCifer]

Happy to see Phillips get the opportunity, now it's up to him to make the most of it.

 

Sutter is a pretty easy read to me - you don't come in aiming to get ice time or to play on a certain line/PP/PK... instead, come in and give them no reason to take you out of the lineup. That's it. Earn his trust. 

 

Why does Sutter play the 4th line much to the chagrin of the fanbase? He's got lots of historical data on those players and is confident what he's going to get out of them more often than not. He also has to give them situational opportunities to play in - because come playoffs they will be called upon to contribute. You can't practice "playoffs", but you can practice those situations in the regular season to prepare for playoffs. I love the idea of bringing in an offensive player to try to get us some more goals, but, if the flip-side is getting defensively caved-in and giving up more chances than we generate, I can see why Sutter isn't a fan. The guy doesn't care about the regular season - at all. He views it as practice and preparation. All that matters is the grail, and doing what it takes to prepare the team for a chance at it. That includes all hands on deck. 

[travel_dude]

This is as much about reward as opportunity.

Reward for being AHL player of the month.

Reward for effort.

It's also BT saying to Sutter, this is what I am giving you.

Use him, don't use him, this is what you have to pick from.

I think he is NHL ready, let's see what you think.

 

[tmac70]

Nice to see the kid get rewarded, at least this confirms that Tre acknowledges the hard work and success. I would LOVE to see him get in over Lucic LOVE it. However, Phillips is not a 4th line guy, 3rd line maybe, 2nd line possibly. The 1st line appears to be working the 2nd line is rolling and 3rd line is solid. Unless you remove Coleman down to the 4th line and play Phillips with Rozie and Backs, he will just be a cheerleader for the road trip. Me thinks this is just a pat on the back more so than an oppurtunity. If Sutter ever sits Lucic, it will have a MASSIVE negative impact on the player and the locker room. For Lucic its personal pride but that is fading very fast this season, love the guy was a great player but its time to leave with some dignity, a healthy scratch will be a huge blow to his ego.