Newest Flame First 73 In team History Tyler Tofolli

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Obviously, we aren't getting Hertl.  In division makes it near impossible cost wise.

Even if they wanted to trade him to us.

I doubt MTL is considering tradin Dvorak, since they just have got him and haven't had a full year to look at him.

You keep him over a Byron.

 

What else is available out there?

Domi isn't a top C, nice piece but not #1.

 

 

Giroux.

 

Possibly Bergeron if BOS misses the playoffs.

 

Was even thinking Scheifele or Dubios if WPG is planning to clean house after this season.

 

I believe Keller could be had.

 

All would cost a 1st round pick + top prospect.  We should pay.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

"Top line calibre" is a bit flattering considering he's a career 2nd liner and often nowhere close to point per game.

 

I get that we improved our 3rd line greatly today and Toffoli will be tried on different combos for sure.  Our second unit PP got a huge boost too.   We added another weapon.

 

But would loved to have moved 1st + top prospect for Chychrun instead.  Or even Keller who is playing like a #1 Center right now.   But we spent our #1 trade chip for depth.  Rebuilding teams want that 1st round pick.

 

ARI could probably use a 2023 1st as much as a 2022 one.  So many teams have already traded the 2022 picks that the chances of finding a partner willing to pay are less.  No, I'm not suggesting that we should do that, just that the door isn't closed.  VGK, COL, FLA and CAR don't have a 1st in 2022.  Some of those teams might want to make a deal with ARI.

[The_People1]

We are also missing a stud D like a Chychrun. We need an every situation #1 Dman and it would've surely costed a 1st + high end prospect and we should have gone all in.

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Giroux.

 

Possibly Bergeron if BOS misses the playoffs.

 

Was even thinking Scheifele or Dubios if WPG is planning to clean house after this season.

 

I believe Keller could be had.

 

All would cost a 1st round pick + top prospect.  We should pay.

 

Would you give up Zary + 2023 1st for Keller?

Assuming we could afford it.

This is more of a summer deal.

[phoenix66]

13 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

"Top line calibre" is a bit flattering considering he's a career 2nd liner and often nowhere close to point per game.

 

I get that we improved our 3rd line greatly today and Toffoli will be tried on different combos for sure.  Our second unit PP got a huge boost too.   We added another weapon.

 

But would loved to have moved 1st + top prospect for Chychrun instead.  Or even Keller who is playing like a #1 Center right now.   But we spent our #1 trade chip for depth.  Rebuilding teams want that 1st round pick.

Keller and Toffoli have similar stats last 2 seasons ..and Toffoli has done it not playing top line minutes or top pp minutes (Keller has 8 more points total) .. their career ppg isn't much different either..0.61 vs 0.67 

And you never add a top flight d man mid season.. it's always a bust..  I'd like to have Chycrun too . But he's not an imperative need ..and historically he wouldn't have any impact until at least next season 

Ironically.. these teams also need some leadership and salary.. you could likely get Chycrun in a monhan deal in the offseason..they can move him again at the deadline 

 

We don't even need a #1 center anymore .we have one ..we need a #3 center that doesn't make over $6M / year 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

I'm not a huge fan of the trade.   Not happy to move a 1st round pick for a player who doesn't move the needle in my opinion.  Toffoli doesn't put us over the top.

 

If it would've taken much more to get the right piece then I'd rather pay more.  1st + top prospect to get a Giroux or something.  Now we don't have a 1st to use.

 

 

This is why I was worried they would just think, we need more scoring so we need to get someone who scores. Is it really that simple? You, Cross and a few others have been pointing it out. 

 

The only way to gain that C depth is to trade out some money away. So it's not impossible, but the 1st is a big piece of a deal like that. Maybe you go into the prospect pool for that?

[The_People1]

12 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Keller and Toffoli have similar stats last 2 seasons ..and Toffoli has done it not playing top line minutes or top pp minutes (Keller has 8 more points total) .. their career ppg isn't much different either..0.61 vs 0.67 

And you never add a top flight d man mid season.. it's always a bust..  I'd like to have Chycrun too . But he's not an imperative need ..and historically he wouldn't have any impact until at least next season 

Ironically.. these teams also need some leadership and salary.. you could likely get Chycrun in a monhan deal in the offseason..they can move him again at the deadline 

 

We don't even need a #1 center anymore .we have one ..we need a #3 center that doesn't make over $6M / year 

 

Keller is younger though and still developing.  He's trending the right direction.

 

I guess it all comes down to this.  We've used our best trade chip.  Are we now among the top Cup contenders?  Can we confidently take on FLA, TBL, CAR, COL?  Are we in that conversation now?

 

If not, then why didn't we spend a little more?  That's all I'm saying.

[robrob74]

38 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I'd say more than that.. you're putting a top line caliber rw on your 3rd line and creating 2/3 of what would be a top line on half the teams in the league .. monahan may be overpaid but you still have 2 20+ goal scorers who have both been over 30 playing together.. how many teams have that on their 3rd line ?

 

He could very realistically get Monahan to be that missing piece .. until you trade him high in the offseason 

 

I don't get how the 3rd line is 2/3s of a top line? Monahan is a PP specialist not a top line player (anymore, or right now). He's barely a 3rd liner. Maybe Toffoli kicks starts him? Right now, Monahan just isn't that good. But maybe he is still recovering and will get better. 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I get, and fully support what you're saying .. so not trying to throw water on it .. wr definitely need another top center ..

 

But if argue this .this could be self fulfilling, if only for the rest of the season.

I don't see Monahan getting moved except in a "hockey trade" .which rarely happens except in off season ..

Montreal gives a ton of credit to Toffoli for the progress of Suzuki and Caufield.. so he's great with the kids ..

Monahan has been getting a better touch lately.. Toffoli has a shoot first mentality..means a lot of rebounds , you got Monahan who's got good hands in close and he can dish it when he has a finisher as sho n by how many assists he got with Gaudreau z and vice versa ...the  you have Dube who's not afraid to dig and get dirty ..

This could end up being a very potent 5 on 5 line with go won't face top lines a ton.. 

 

Next season, if Monahan moves on.. Ruzicka is progressing to where he could be a solid regukar next season .could be a fit for Toffoli then 

 

This is obviously what the Flames are hoping for and it is in the range of outcomes. Dube-Monahan-Ritchie actually have not been a terrible line they just are not finishing at all. Adding a finisher makes sense.

 

However, my concern lies in deployment and matchups. Obviously this is not an issue right for because the Backlund line is red hot but if they cool down (which history tell us is very likely) then I think the Flames have an issue. Because Monahan is not very good in transition, nor that good defensively Sutter has to use that line in favorable matchup and mostly o zone starts. While Toffoli is good in this area i'm not sure it's enough to turn that line into one you can trust with a lot of d zone starts. With having a rookie center on your 4th line that also limits this and now your using you are deploying your top 6 defensively and in harder matchups. This doesn't feel like an issue to me in the regular season but I absolutely think it's something that can be exploited by a team in the playoffs. Matchup hard against the Gaudreau line, create a favorable matchup against the Backlund line because they'll be heavy d zone starts and suddenly Calgary is in some trouble.  This is also not even getting into the idea of what happens if Backlund cools off?

 

That is why I thought a transition center was so critical. This is going to get harder to overcome in the playoffs when a team can game plan for it extensively. They have some options to play around with but in Sutter's system a center is so critcial to proper execution of it and my faith that Monahan can be that center is gone. It is possible that Ruzicka can fill this gap but that is a big ask too. 

 

I could be wrong and none of this matter but this is why I thought it was so critical. I'm a big believer in the Brian Burke theory of winning a cup. Going to be a series you need to outscore the other team, a series you're going to have to defend/have your goalie win one, a series that will come down to special teams and a series where you will have to outmuscle your opponent. My skepticism lies in their ability to outscore a team over the course of a series when that top line can be keyed in on. 

[phoenix66]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Keller is younger though and still developing.  He's trending the right direction.

 

I guess it all comes down to this.  We've used our best trade chip.  Are we now among the top Cup contenders?  Can we confidently take on FLA, TBL, CAR, COL?  Are we in that conversation now?

 

If not, then why didn't we spend a little more?  That's all I'm saying.

This line up now ?  100 % can beat out the west now , especially the way we play .. our weakness was 3rd line scoring... Won't be anymore , all 3 players should be better with this 

 

I don't think anybody is beating those FLA teams without a fight..     but there just isn't a Huberdeau available for trade..  and a late First rounder isn't a deal breaker in getting one.. if it was we'd have Eichel right now 

[cross16]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Keller is younger though and still developing.  He's trending the right direction.

 

I guess it all comes down to this.  We've used our best trade chip.  Are we now among the top Cup contenders?  Can we confidently take on FLA, TBL, CAR, COL?  Are we in that conversation now?

 

If not, then why didn't we spend a little more?  That's all I'm saying.

 

Devils advocate, only 1 of those teams is in the West and in a 7 game Stanley Cup final anything can happen. 

 

As much as I think the center depth is a problem I also think they are 100% in that conversation when it comes to the West. 

[phoenix66]

7 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

This is obviously what the Flames are hoping for and it is in the range of outcomes. Dube-Monahan-Ritchie actually have not been a terrible line they just are not finishing at all. Adding a finisher makes sense.

 

However, my concern lies in deployment and matchups. Obviously this is not an issue right for because the Backlund line is red hot but if they cool down (which history tell us is very likely) then I think the Flames have an issue. Because Monahan is not very good in transition, nor that good defensively Sutter has to use that line in favorable matchup and mostly o zone starts. While Toffoli is good in this area i'm not sure it's enough to turn that line into one you can trust with a lot of d zone starts. With having a rookie center on your 4th line that also limits this and now your using you are deploying your top 6 defensively and in harder matchups. This doesn't feel like an issue to me in the regular season but I absolutely think it's something that can be exploited by a team in the playoffs. Matchup hard against the Gaudreau line, create a favorable matchup against the Backlund line because they'll be heavy d zone starts and suddenly Calgary is in some trouble.  This is also not even getting into the idea of what happens if Backlund cools off?

 

That is why I thought a transition center was so critical. This is going to get harder to overcome in the playoffs when a team can game plan for it extensively. They have some options to play around with but in Sutter's system a center is so critcial to proper execution of it and my faith that Monahan can be that center is gone. It is possible that Ruzicka can fill this gap but that is a big ask too. 

 

I could be wrong and none of this matter but this is why I thought it was so critical. I'm a big believer in the Brian Burke theory of winning a cup. Going to be a series you need to outscore the other team, a series you're going to have to defend, a series that will come down to special teams and a series where you will have to outmuscle your opponent. My skepticism lies in their ability to outscore a team over the course of a series when that top line can be keyed in on. 

Makes a whole lot of sense for sure..I actually have been wondering if that's not why Sutter is putting so much time into Ruzicka. It's very un-sutterlike for him to develop a kid.. but at the minor level that's what he was good at..

 

If BT has any more targets it may be just that... These depth moves he does at the tdl are basically already done .we already have depth D.. Stone, valimaki, Mackey, etc.. all NHL experience ..depth if needed ..he's good with his core 6/7..   guys like Lewis..playoff guys..already here .. 

Only issue now is space...and the only realistic moveable piece is Dube..   and Ruzicka can be sent down ..  that would give almost a $4M cap window to fit one in ..the right piece and a bit of salary relief in the trade makes it still a possibility 

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Devils advocate, only 1 of those teams is in the West and in a 7 game Stanley Cup final anything can happen. 

 

As much as I think the center depth is a problem I also think they are 100% in that conversation when it comes to the West. 

 

Nice to hear you say that.  I think we were starting to be in the conversation before this trade.  The good thing is we didn't give up the present to add to the present and future.

[sak22]

24 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Makes a whole lot of sense for sure..I actually have been wondering if that's not why Sutter is putting so much time into Ruzicka. It's very un-sutterlike for him to develop a kid.. but at the minor level that's what he was good at..

 

If BT has any more targets it may be just that... These depth moves he does at the tdl are basically already done .we already have depth D.. Stone, valimaki, Mackey, etc.. all NHL experience ..depth if needed ..he's good with his core 6/7..   guys like Lewis..playoff guys..already here .. 

Only issue now is space...and the only realistic moveable piece is Dube..   and Ruzicka can be sent down ..  that would give almost a $4M cap window to fit one in ..the right piece and a bit of salary relief in the trade makes it still a possibility 

Tyler Tofolli was a kid that developed under Sutter, he also had Nolan, King and Voynov.  His previous tenure in Calgary was Phaneuf, Leopold, Lombardi and Kobasew.  San Jose he had Marleau, Stuart and Hannan.  Sutter isn't anti-youth or anything, he just doesn't offer the verbal praise that we all heap on prospects.  Fans/media mother the kids, Sutter fathers them.

[zima]

Do you guys really think he will add any more PC's I think bringing up another kid might be the way to go Pelt or Mighty might Philips. We still have a bunch a games to go and now is the time to see what these kids can do. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, sak22 said:

Tyler Tofolli was a kid that developed under Sutter, he also had Nolan, King and Voynov.  His previous tenure in Calgary was Phaneuf, Leopold, Lombardi and Kobasew.  San Jose he had Marleau, Stuart and Hannan.  Sutter isn't anti-youth or anything, he just doesn't offer the verbal praise that we all heap on prospects.  Fans/media mother the kids, Sutter fathers them.

 

I like that statement.  In some ways Sutter mothers them too.  No son, you can't play with the big kids yet.  You look so small in your cute little gear.  Wait til you geta as big as your big brother.

 

JK.  He is reluctant to try a kid out unless his hand is forced.  He won't dump a Pelts into a 4th line grind, and if we are 100% healthy in the top 9 (with Toffoli added in), it doesn't scream a need.  Yes, I would love to see Pelts get a shot.  But only 3rd line or above.  He might have chemistry with Ruzie, but that line is big and shifty.  Some very good work on forecheck and possession.  I wouldn't say that is where we should place a Pelts.    

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, zima said:

Do you guys really think he will add any more PC's

 

Can you please explain?  I don't know what you are talking about.  PC's ?

[LouCifer]

I have a theory. All the media were talking about Chiarot being linked to this trade, and that we didn’t get him. I’m not so sure. BT was very forthcoming when he was explaining that our cap could absorb Toff now, and that he didn’t want to wait for more cap space to accrue over time. My theory is that there was more to this trade, but that it was contingent on MTL moving Chiarot out first. I think Chiarot was going to be heading elsewhere, and that there is another deal on the table in a holding pattern until MTL makes another move. Just a hunch

[Sarasti]

I like this trade and it made the most sense logistically of the rumored available players.

Fits a need and I think he slots into Ritchies spot on the Monahan line.

We were already built for the playoffs imo but when teams start to dial in defensively, having a scoring threat on every line in the top 9 will be a wonderful tool.

Kudos to BT on this one.

[phoenix66]

18 minutes ago, LouCifer said:

I have a theory. All the media were talking about Chiarot being linked to this trade, and that we didn’t get him. I’m not so sure. BT was very forthcoming when he was explaining that our cap could absorb Toff now, and that he didn’t want to wait for more cap space to accrue over time. My theory is that there was more to this trade, but that it was contingent on MTL moving Chiarot out first. I think Chiarot was going to be heading elsewhere, and that there is another deal on the table in a holding pattern until MTL makes another move. Just a hunch

To be honest, might be reading too much into that there ..

Barring Injuries I don't see us being in the market for a top 4 d man..

First the cost is too high and we have /had bigger needs.( Top 6 scoring winger, ..check...now a top 3 center ) 

Second .. depth guys to play a simple game if needed that come cheap are one thing.. but unless somebody can think of one , never has a top 4 stud dman had any impact at all when acquired at the deadline ... They take too long to build chemistry with a partner , the team etc.. they typically are busts  ..even Ray Borque had no impact the first season with Colorado.. needed a full season to get his cup.. 

I could see us circling back in the offseason if someone like him is still available 

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

To be honest, might be reading too much into that there ..

Barring Injuries I don't see us being in the market for a top 4 d man..

First the cost is too high and we have /had bigger needs.( Top 6 scoring winger, ..check...now a top 3 center ) 

Second .. depth guys to play a simple game if needed that come cheap are one thing.. but unless somebody can think of one , never has a top 4 stud dman had any impact at all when acquired at the deadline ... They take too long to build chemistry with a partner , the team etc.. they typically are busts  ..even Ray Borque had no impact the first season with Colorado.. needed a full season to get his cup.. 

I could see us circling back in the offseason if someone like him is still available 

I'm guessing Tronny will have interst seeing as they have zero size on the backend.

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I'm guessing Tronny will have interst seeing as they have zero size on the backend.

 

The Big Smoke is all that.  Bunch of smoke.

They can't afford anyone.

They would first need someone to retain 50% of the cap on Charot.

Then get another team to do the same.

And somehow get rid of Ritchie.

 

A 1st alone wouldn't cut it.

Would need to add at least a Kase or something to get the convo started.

 

[cross16]

1 hour ago, LouCifer said:

I have a theory. All the media were talking about Chiarot being linked to this trade, and that we didn’t get him. I’m not so sure. BT was very forthcoming when he was explaining that our cap could absorb Toff now, and that he didn’t want to wait for more cap space to accrue over time. My theory is that there was more to this trade, but that it was contingent on MTL moving Chiarot out first. I think Chiarot was going to be heading elsewhere, and that there is another deal on the table in a holding pattern until MTL makes another move. Just a hunch

a few insiders have mentioned that the talks between Habs and Flames were bigger but had to be scuttled due to cap reasons. 
 

[CheersMan]

Pretty hard not to like this trade. Like BT says, you have to give to get, and this team looks deserving for addition.

 

I admired Tofolli’s contribution in LA, then VAN and again in MTL, the kid has been a gamer everywhere he goes.

 

His connection with the Flames appears deep and real, have to think that his competitive and productive nature along with his cheery character will only strengthen what the Flames have been building in the room and on the ice.

 

Lets not “Trade Tyler Tofolli”, lets keep him as he still has 2.5 years remaining on a friendly contract. If it doesn’t work out we flip him down the road and get out 1^st back, unlike that of a pure rental.

 

I like the timing as well, the team is on a roll, on the eve of passing LV for top spot in the division with BIG games coming up, 8 of next 10 vs our division / conference.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

9 hours ago, cross16 said:

a few insiders have mentioned that the talks between Habs and Flames were bigger but had to be scuttled due to cap reasons. 
 

Glad Chairot wasnt incuded.  He's a larger stay at home defensive minded D man that plays a physical game, Guddy is already that and the better of the two IMO.