Johnny Gaudreau

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, DHT said:

Is Johnny worth 11.5x7 or ? There seems to be a pattern in the NHL that on their last year before contract renew, they play like there is no tomorrow so that they will cash in for retirement. I like Johnny but I'm not sure he is worth that.

 

I don't know.  Was Marner worth 10.9 over 6?

Panarin worth 11.6 over 7?

These were signed after lesser points scored by these players.

Panarin was closer to Gaudreau's age.

[The_People1]

NJ right now is like the Leafs pre-Tavares... Lots of high picks.  Forwards are looking potent.  D group is better than some suggest.  Hamilton is Norris-level D (he would've won the Norris the year he got injured).  Severson is versatile.  Graves is a big tough D.  Ty Smith has tremendous potential.  It's a potent top 4 if they can build chemistry. 

 

Mackenzie Blackwood is not elite but he could grow and they have the summer to find a veteran backup who could give Blackwood some relief and shelter.

 

Adding Gaudreau is adds a 100-point player and that inevitably boosts any team.  NJ should be a playoff team with Gaudreau.

[sak22]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

NJ right now is like the Leafs pre-Tavares... Lots of high picks.  Forwards are looking potent.  D group is better than some suggest.  Hamilton is Norris-level D (he would've won the Norris the year he got injured).  Severson is versatile.  Graves is a big tough D.  Ty Smith has tremendous potential.  It's a potent top 4 if they can build chemistry. 

 

Mackenzie Blackwood is not elite but he could grow and they have the summer to find a veteran backup who could give Blackwood some relief and shelter.

 

Adding Gaudreau is adds a 100-point player and that inevitably boosts any team.  NJ should be a playoff team with Gaudreau.

Minus results, the Leafs had been to back to back playoffs and were coming off a 105 point season.  There is a lot of potential in NJ, but I wouldn't call them close to the pre-Tavares Leafs.  Last years Devils were probably a better team with a healthy Hughes, Hamilton and Blackwood/Bernier, but I don't think they are 38 points better with all that.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Minus results, the Leafs had been to back to back playoffs and were coming off a 105 point season.  There is a lot of potential in NJ, but I wouldn't call them close to the pre-Tavares Leafs.  Last years Devils were probably a better team with a healthy Hughes, Hamilton and Blackwood/Bernier, but I don't think they are 38 points better with all that.

 

Yes, minus the results of course.  Hughes could emerge as a 100-point guy soon and rival Matthew's points. Hischier solid 2nd line Center.  Holtz potential is high... Not as good as Marner but least as good as Nylander.  Mercer is an up and coming two-way C/RW.  Add Gaudreau (or even Tkachuk) to that group and there's so much potential.

[Addicted]

Everyone is talking about whether Johnny is considering the money or a move back east, but maybe there is more to it then that?  Maybe he has wedged himself into a large conversation around what type of contract and term he is willing to accept if the team can be held together, including Mony.  It's been done before where a player will accept less money to make sure that the team around him is effective.....quite possible Johnny, Matty, Mang, and maybe even Mony's agents are all talking together to see if they can make something work for everyone.

 

One can hope.....

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, Addicted said:

Everyone is talking about whether Johnny is considering the money or a move back east, but maybe there is more to it then that?  Maybe he has wedged himself into a large conversation around what type of contract and term he is willing to accept if the team can be held together, including Mony.  It's been done before where a player will accept less money to make sure that the team around him is effective.....quite possible Johnny, Matty, Mang, and maybe even Mony's agents are all talking together to see if they can make something work for everyone.

 

One can hope.....

It's valid. What else enters in is legacy. Every player wants to be THAT guy, with THAT team, that made Satoshi Nakamoto happen.

It puts you in Sakic and Yzerman conversations. They never left for more $$$ when things were looking rough. Stamkos is in that conversation.

Tavares isn't.

Do you you want to be remembered as a leader of one team?

It's not like there isn't enough money for your grandkids to live comfortably or market value is out of whack.

If you want to maximize your value, you have to expect that your legacy will decrease.

There is a whole world of things for him to consider.

I'm betting that he re-signs still.

I just can't see why he wouldn't.

"honey, I'm wide open to what you wanna do after, we'll only be 37".

Calgary isn't a Satoshi Nakamotohole, by any stretch of the imagination.

[cross16]

I would be surprised if legacy wasn't a factor in this. This is why I don't think the silence is a problem, this is a tough decision with a lot of factors going on. I bet in a perfect world, sure he probably wants to be a Flyer but what does he give up to do that? Can they move enough money to afford him? They were 40 points out of the playoffs last year is he really enough to turn that around? Is being close to home worth giving that up?

New Jersey enters the picture but a lot of the same debate. They were out of the playoffs by a ton is he enough to turn it around? he is playing for a coach he loves, who is Lindy Ruff?

And on top of all of that if Gaudreau stays in Calgary his jersey is getting retired and the record books are going to be re written. That isn't happening anywhere else so what is that worth to him? I would think that would matter quite a bit to him. 

 

Another factor in all of this, Lewis Gross the agent. Same guy who had Johnny hold out last time and same guy who had Nylander go overseas trying to get more $ out of the Leafs. The waiting game is part of his MO. 

 

I'm still of the belief he returns. 

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I would be surprised if legacy wasn't a factor in this. This is why I don't think the silence is a problem, this is a tough decision with a lot of factors going on. I bet in a perfect world, sure he probably wants to be a Flyer but what does he give up to do that? Can they move enough money to afford him? They were 40 points out of the playoffs last year is he really enough to turn that around? Is being close to home worth giving that up?

New Jersey enters the picture but a lot of the same debate. They were out of the playoffs by a ton is he enough to turn it around? he is playing for a coach he loves, who is Lindy Ruff?

And on top of all of that if Gaudreau stays in Calgary his jersey is getting retired and the record books are going to be re written. That isn't happening anywhere else so what is that worth to him? I would think that would matter quite a bit to him. 

 

Another factor in all of this, Lewis Gross the agent. Same guy who had Johnny hold out last time and same guy who had Nylander go overseas trying to get more $ out of the Leafs. The waiting game is part of his MO. 

 

I'm still of the belief he returns. 

 

Legacy may be an important factor.  It's really anyone's guess what the offer was.  They have already said they will move heaven and earth to sign him.  Gross isn't going to let Johnny talk to BT at this point.  He has to be the go-between, so BT reaching out to Johnny's camp just means contacting Gross.  And Gross has a long memory.  He remembers how his client blinked the last time.  And that could still happen, but it will still be Gross doing the talking.

 

[sak22]

Worth noting Lewis Gross represented Craig Conroy, not suggesting that it will get done because of that, as we all know Conroy moved on when he hit, but I would imagine communications between the two parties are better than being reported.

[pikey7883]

5 hours ago, sak22 said:

Worth noting Lewis Gross represented Craig Conroy, not suggesting that it will get done because of that, as we all know Conroy moved on when he hit, but I would imagine communications between the two parties are better than being reported.

It’s also important to note, that Conroy lead the charge on Johnnys last negotiation. It was said that Conroy used his experiences as an American Born player playing in Canada, the ups and downs, and convinced him of his last deal. 

[phoenix66]

22 hours ago, sak22 said:

Worth noting Lewis Gross represented Craig Conroy, not suggesting that it will get done because of that, as we all know Conroy moved on when he hit, but I would imagine communications between the two parties are better than being reported.

I hope Conroy is able to pass on that Gross had him take the money in LA and it was , he said , the worst decision he ever made 

 

If I recall ..Johnnys last stalemate ended with BT going to NJ and talking to Johnny and his family 1-1

 

 

 

I dunno .this whole thing is kind of souring me ..

I totally get the family factor ..I do.. 

But right now he has a very fair market offer on the table 

He's looking at a legacy..some players would kill for that 

He's on the top line..getting top minutes and billing 

The city and fans love him.. word is he feels the same ..

His 2 other best options he's looking 2-3 years before a cup can likely even be discussed 

Calgary is offering the full package ..

 

If they were haggling over details , then fine you got a week to do that .. but word is they're not ..they're just waiting.. BT asked for a status update and got "nothing has changed " 

If he wants to go...then go.. no hard feelings .. but the hanging job currently happening is just agent posturing likely in hopes of a last minute , back against the wall pressure point..  I really hope we don't fall for it 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I hope Conroy is able to pass on that Gross had him take the money in LA and it was , he said , the worst decision he ever made 

 

If I recall ..Johnnys last stalemate ended with BT going to NJ and talking to Johnny and his family 1-1

 

 

 

I dunno .this whole thing is kind of souring me ..

I totally get the family factor ..I do.. 

But right now he has a very fair market offer on the table 

He's looking at a legacy..some players would kill for that 

He's on the top line..getting top minutes and billing 

The city and fans love him.. word is he feels the same ..

His 2 other best options he's looking 2-3 years before a cup can likely even be discussed 

Calgary is offering the full package ..

 

If they were haggling over details , then fine you got a week to do that .. but word is they're not ..they're just waiting.. BT asked for a status update and got "nothing has changed " 

If he wants to go...then go.. no hard feelings .. but the hanging job currently happening is just agent posturing likely in hopes of a last minute , back against the wall pressure point..  I really hope we don't fall for it 

 

Ya but this time, the wife gets to have a say.  Maybe Johnny is okay to stay in Calgary but wife wants to be close to family.  Who knows.   

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I hope Conroy is able to pass on that Gross had him take the money in LA and it was , he said , the worst decision he ever made 

 

If I recall ..Johnnys last stalemate ended with BT going to NJ and talking to Johnny and his family 1-1

 

 

 

I dunno .this whole thing is kind of souring me ..

I totally get the family factor ..I do.. 

But right now he has a very fair market offer on the table 

He's looking at a legacy..some players would kill for that 

He's on the top line..getting top minutes and billing 

The city and fans love him.. word is he feels the same ..

His 2 other best options he's looking 2-3 years before a cup can likely even be discussed 

Calgary is offering the full package ..

 

If they were haggling over details , then fine you got a week to do that .. but word is they're not ..they're just waiting.. BT asked for a status update and got "nothing has changed " 

If he wants to go...then go.. no hard feelings .. but the hanging job currently happening is just agent posturing likely in hopes of a last minute , back against the wall pressure point..  I really hope we don't fall for it 

Has that ever been confirmed? I find it odd that some details about negotiations have leaked when BT usually plays these things very close to the vest.  I'm not as plugged in to the local channels as most but this seems like "insiders" trying to make news where there isnt any.

 

 

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Has that ever been confirmed? I find it odd that some details about negotiations have leaked when BT usually plays these things very close to the vest.  I'm not as plugged in to the local channels as most but this seems like "insiders" trying to make news where there isnt any.

 

 

I will say that guys like Friedman don't make up numbers ..if he's stating a number he has it from a reliable source ..even knowing that they're still flexible 

Wouldn't surprise me if Calgary leaked it .. kill the suspicion that were low balling him.. keep the ball in Johnny's court 

The other constant has been they've had the offer for over a month.. .. last update was yesterday with the agent telling Calgary nothing has changed 

[travel_dude]

28 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I will say that guys like Friedman don't make up numbers ..if he's stating a number he has it from a reliable source ..even knowing that they're still flexible 

Wouldn't surprise me if Calgary leaked it .. kill the suspicion that were low balling him.. keep the ball in Johnny's court 

The other constant has been they've had the offer for over a month.. .. last update was yesterday with the agent telling Calgary nothing has changed 

 

He said it's believed to be something like $9.5M.  Very possible it was leaked for a reason if it's accurate.  I just don't buy into the fact that they actually know it.  Gross isn't going to leak it.

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

He said it's believed to be something like $9.5M.  Very possible it was leaked for a reason if it's accurate.  I just don't buy into the fact that they actually know it.  Gross isn't going to leak it.

No that's something the flames wouid tho.. it's in their favor ..

 

I will say tho..hearing him speak in a couple of media interviews over the last hour or so has me more confident .. says theres been " much contact " over the last 48 hrs...that Johnny " wants to be in Calgary"  and that if he had doubt he'd " have moved to plan B already" 

 

Tells me there is at least some talk going on now .. I said from the start, although it's fair I didn't expect him to sign the offer on the table ..just Make a move that says which way he wants to go .. so spend the next 4 days get the details done 

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

No that's something the flames wouid tho.. it's in their favor ..

 

I will say tho..hearing him speak in a couple of media interviews over the last hour or so has me more confident .. says theres been " much contact " over the last 48 hrs...that Johnny " wants to be in Calgary"  and that if he had doubt he'd " have moved to plan B already" 

 

Tells me there is at least some talk going on now .. I said from the start, although it's fair I didn't expect him to sign the offer on the table ..just Make a move that says which way he wants to go .. so spend the next 4 days get the details done 

 

There's no benefit to the negotiation.  In fact it works opposite.  People on the fence start thinking that he ain't worth it.  Also how it impacts negotiations with Tkachuk.

 

Let me look at it a different way.  If Gross comes back a week after the offer with a counter, then he has to go sky-high or he loses any leverage.  He comes back without a number and just says nope, then what is that saying?  Better to not come back to counter.  It's not a game of chicken for Gross.  He doesn't have to do anything.  The final offer may not be what he expected, but that's not his decision, he has to get JH to decide. 

 

MKedia says there is no talk.  BT says there is.  FS seems to imply JH is wrapping his head around the impact of his signing to the team.  Probably a lot of advice came as a result of the last few days (draft etc).  Is Philly even a player now.  Tony D needs a deal.  Need a backup.  NY has a lot of work to sign the players they had.  NJ is positioned well, but not sure how they get to playoffs this year.

[The_People1]

48 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Tells me there is at least some talk going on now .. I said from the start, although it's fair I didn't expect him to sign the offer on the table ..just Make a move that says which way he wants to go .. so spend the next 4 days get the details done 

 

Agreed man.  I mean, if he's going to sign long term, then he needs to realize that by waiting so long the Flames are missing out on a few opportunities for trades and stuff.  He dictates the teams direction next season so the earlier he signs the earlier BT gets going on the rest of the roster.

[phoenix66]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

There's no benefit to the negotiation.  In fact it works opposite.  People on the fence start thinking that he ain't worth it.  Also how it impacts negotiations with Tkachuk.

 

Let me look at it a different way.  If Gross comes back a week after the offer with a counter, then he has to go sky-high or he loses any leverage.  He comes back without a number and just says nope, then what is that saying?  Better to not come back to counter.  It's not a game of chicken for Gross.  He doesn't have to do anything.  The final offer may not be what he expected, but that's not his decision, he has to get JH to decide. 

 

MKedia says there is no talk.  BT says there is.  FS seems to imply JH is wrapping his head around the impact of his signing to the team.  Probably a lot of advice came as a result of the last few days (draft etc).  Is Philly even a player now.  Tony D needs a deal.  Need a backup.  NY has a lot of work to sign the players they had.  NJ is positioned well, but not sure how they get to playoffs this year.

Tony D actually has his deal..2 year $10m,$5M AAV 

 

But what I'm saying is wtf is the point of waiting in that logic ? If he wants to stay.. then either take the deal or counter one he will sign right now ... If he wants to leave , say so and let the flames pivot ..   if the point Is to hold the flames hostage and arrive with a jacked up request at the last minute thinking the flames have no choice he likely ends up screwing his client if the flames say no and to enjoy Ufa 

 

But again ..if they are indeed talking that may very well be what's going on..

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

Tony D actually has his deal..2 year $10m,$5M AAV 

 

But what I'm saying is wtf is the point of waiting in that logic ? If he wants to stay.. then either take the deal or counter one he will sign right now ... If he wants to leave , say so and let the flames pivot ..   if the point Is to hold the flames hostage and arrive with a jacked up request at the last minute thinking the flames have no choice he likely ends up screwing his client if the flames say no and to enjoy Ufa 

 

But again ..if they are indeed talking that may very well be what's going on..

 

So, if you have any interest at all in seeing what the market will bear, then what good is it to sign before the draft?  Now that some of the draft splash is over, the teams left are a bit clearer.  BT is unlikely to say FU and enjoy FA.  His job is on the line.  He's not going to nickel and dime the deal.  If it comes down to a $11M offer in FA, he will match it or even offer something else.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I don't support the agent screwing the Flames.  He's there to get the best deal that his client wants.  Up to today was posturing.  This weekend is the hard work.  JH is going to start pressuring him to make a deal, assuming he even wants to be here.  Gross will tell him this is how it works, but he's basically a lawyer trying to get his client to sign a settlement.  Not the agent's decision, just the arguing. 

[The_People1]

Imagine this comes down to the 11th hour... Maybe even minutes before the deadline.   And then Johnny's agent tries to call BT to accept the offer...

 

But Rogers network is down.

[robrob74]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Imagine this comes down to the 11th hour... Maybe even minutes before the deadline.   And then Johnny's agent tries to call BT to accept the offer...

 

But Rogers network is down.

i think I’m gonna switch to Telus…

 

[phoenix66]

I don't know who subscribes to the athletic here..but a great recent story on how Johnny was drafted .. more detail than I've seen before ... For those that don't have it I'll summarize ..

 

They purposely never spoke to him or went to see him.. they were always scouting his teammate ... Blake Coleman 

 

The reason for avoiding any interest in him was primarily due to the fact that Peter Chiarelli had a stake in his team.. and Boston obviously was watching him too ..PC had later said he was their next pick 

 

Johnny never even attended the draft , he didn't think he would be drafted ..no team gave any indication he could be 

 

On draft day.. Feaster had his list to follow .. but Gaudreau was one of 2 "pocket players".. players not on the sequence list, but that Feaster would take when Button said to

They obviously played the Johnny card in the 4th..  the other player ? Nikita Kucherov..  who was taken one pick after we took Wotherspoon..  if both had been available in the 4th we were taking Kucherov..  Button thought both would be there 

 

 

Intersting stuff ... But also goes on to say that this just proves  scouting isn't perfect .. or we wouid have drafted them both instead of Sven and Wotherspoon obviously 

 

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I don't know who subscribes to the athletic here..but a great recent story on how Johnny was drafted .. more detail than I've seen before ... For those that don't have it I'll summarize ..

 

They purposely never spoke to him or went to see him.. they were always scouting his teammate ... Blake Coleman 

 

The reason for avoiding any interest in him was primarily due to the fact that Peter Chiarelli had a stake in his team.. and Boston obviously was watching him too ..PC had later said he was their next pick 

 

Johnny never even attended the draft , he didn't think he would be drafted ..no team gave any indication he could be 

 

On draft day.. Feaster had his list to follow .. but Gaudreau was one of 2 "pocket players".. players not on the sequence list, but that Feaster would take when Button said to

They obviously played the Johnny card in the 4th..  the other player ? Nikita Kucherov..  who was taken one pick after we took Wotherspoon..  if both had been available in the 4th we were taking Kucherov..  Button thought both would be there 

 

 

Intersting stuff ... But also goes on to say that this just proves  scouting isn't perfect .. or we wouid have drafted them both instead of Sven and Wotherspoon obviously 

 

 

Sven wasn't a bad pick, perhaps we should have chose otherwise, but guys like JT Miller did nothing in the draft year.  Sven was a productive player.  It was annoying that we picked both Granlund and Wotherspoon first.  That was a fail.  I heard the story about avoiding talking to Johnny's coaches, since that would signal interest.  It was smart.  

 

Sometimes you play smart poker but still bet too much on nothing burgers.

[phoenix66]

15 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sven wasn't a bad pick, perhaps we should have chose otherwise, but guys like JT Miller did nothing in the draft year.  Sven was a productive player.  It was annoying that we picked both Granlund and Wotherspoon first.  That was a fail.  I heard the story about avoiding talking to Johnny's coaches, since that would signal interest.  It was smart.  

 

Sometimes you play smart poker but still bet too much on nothing burgers.

Oh 100%..  hindsight drafting always annoys me .. I have no beef with who we did take ..nobody was a reach. 

Just love the connections like Coleman, and the fact Kucherov was on our radar .. the almost spy like undercover intrigue behind the scenes 

Obviously nobody saw Kuch as being as good as he's become. Every team passed on him at least once 

 

Probably what made them do the whole reach for Jankowski the next year