travel_dude Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: But by this logic, the Canucks, Coyotes, Ducks, Blues, etc should all fire their GMs. Armstrong is probably facing the same pressure at Chia was. Ducks are injury ridden. Blues lost their captain, but have underperformed. Coach fired already. Yotes were decimated. They are coming back and are hot. Nucks were never expected to contend. Like at all. None of those teams made the same types of moves that Chia did. Year after year. He needed to go, but he's only the poster boy for the problems they have. They could, potentially, make the playoff by going all in. Trade Puljujarvi + 1st for a top 6 winger. Trade Talbot + 3rd for McBackup. Trade Nuge for Nylander. Trade Bear and Jones for a top 4 D-man, Seabrook or something like that. Trade Kassian for Martinook. These are just suggestions, none of them move the needle that much. The problems are deep seated. No scoring past McDavid and Draisaitl. Defense is weak. Klefbom will help, but Sekera is overrated and struggled last year after injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, cross16 said: It has to do with the breakdown of his contract and salary vs signing bonus. When you buyout a player you still have to pay them 100% of their signing bonuses and those count 100% against the cap. Cap relief in the form of a buyout only comes by applying 2/3 of the remaining salary against the cap spread over over the years remaining. In Lucic's case his salary is small relative to his cap hit, so the Oilers get almost no relief by the buyout. Here is what it would look like. You can see they basically get no cap relief except the first season. Cap Savings 2019-20 $3,000,000 $6,000,000 $625,000 $2,375,000 $3,625,000 2020-21 $1,000,000 $6,000,000 $625,000 $375,000 $5,625,000 2021-22 $2,500,000 $6,000,000 $625,000 $1,875,000 $4,125,000 2022-23 $1,000,000 $6,000,000 $625,000 $375,000 $5,625,000 2023-24 $0 $0 $625,000 -$625,000 $625,000 2024-25 $0 $0 $625,000 -$625,000 $625,000 2025-26 $0 $0 $625,000 -$625,000 $625,000 2026-27 $0 $0 $625,000 -$625,000 $625,000 I see. It seems irrational for the NHL to demand a cap (which I have always liked) in order to ensure cost certainty, only to allow teams to borrow from the future today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: I see. It seems irrational for the NHL to demand a cap (which I have always liked) in order to ensure cost certainty, only to allow teams to borrow from the future today. I would suspect this will be a CBA issue. From what i've read the NHL hates these deals but has no grounds to overturn them as they are legal. Was a loophole they likely didn't forsee. Agents and the NHLPA are pretty crafty and are usually ahead of the NHL and NHL GMs when it comes to using the CBA to their advantage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 59 minutes ago, cross16 said: I would suspect this will be a CBA issue. From what i've read the NHL hates these deals but has no grounds to overturn them as they are legal. Was a loophole they likely didn't forsee. Agents and the NHLPA are pretty crafty and are usually ahead of the NHL and NHL GMs when it comes to using the CBA to their advantage. That makes sense to me. Some of those agents must have spent time in real estate or worked on Wall Street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 8 hours ago, The_People1 said: Any qualified candidates out there looking for a GM job would almost certainly avoid working for the Oilers if they had a choice. I mean, if you are having one of the best seasons in recent franchise history and still get fired, then there's no job security. I get where you are going with this and while I think you have a point I don't think just making the playoffs (barely) with the best player in the game is really meeting your standard. Especially when you've seen very little success when you took the team over 4 years ago and continue to made bad decision after bad decision. With the talent he inherited and being gifted McDavid, there is zero question in my mind that the OIlers should be more than a team that barely gets into the playoffs. I think that's different than the other teams you mentioned. I think the "best season in recent franchise history" speaks more to the level of failure of the organization then it does the work of Chiarelli. Could also look at it this way. The whole Jordan Eberle mess was a GM disaster and probably would be the worst move previous GM like Tambellini or MacT ever made and i'ts probably 3rd or 4th on the list of bad moved Chiarelli made. Why it makes the OIlers job a bit of a double edged sword as well. I do really wonder if they are going to get qualified people that are interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 25 minutes ago, cross16 said: I get where you are going with this and while I think you have a point I don't think just making the playoffs (barely) with the best player in the game is really meeting your standard. Especially when you've seen very little success when you took the team over 4 years ago and continue to made bad decision after bad decision. With the talent he inherited and being gifted McDavid, there is zero question in my mind that the OIlers should be more than a team that barely gets into the playoffs. I think that's different than the other teams you mentioned. I think the "best season in recent franchise history" speaks more to the level of failure of the organization then it does the work of Chiarelli. Could also look at it this way. The whole Jordan Eberle mess was a GM disaster and probably would be the worst move previous GM like Tambellini or MacT ever made and i'ts probably 3rd or 4th on the list of bad moved Chiarelli made. Why it makes the OIlers job a bit of a double edged sword as well. I do really wonder if they are going to get qualified people that are interested in. I'm kind of wondering, and I haven't heard anyone wonder this, how much did the Flames success this season factor into the Oilers firing Chia? Because under normal circumstances, they probably should have given Chia the rest of this season. Given articles written 2 years ago showing the sentiment that the Oilers are passing the Flames for good, it must annoy them that the Flames are Cup contending this season while they are barely making playoffs and almost certainly a one and done if they even get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, The_People1 said: I'm kind of wondering, and I haven't heard anyone wonder this, how much did the Flames success this season factor into the Oilers firing Chia? Because under normal circumstances, they probably should have given Chia the rest of this season. Given articles written 2 years ago showing the sentiment that the Oilers are passing the Flames for good, it must annoy them that the Flames are Cup contending this season while they are barely making playoffs and almost certainly a one and done if they even get in. Great point. I bet it was a lot. Oilers and Flames were supposed to be rebuilding on a similar schedule and here you see the Flames having success and the Oilers stuck at the same level. I know if that was an owner that would eat at me, let alone the fact that it's your biggest rival too. Even if you were trying to rationalize that Chiarelli was doing an OK job, looking 3 hours down the road is all you need to do to really highlight just how poor a job he was actually doing. The Oilers should be better than the Flames right now, and really due to poor management (not just GM but higher) they are not. That has to be very frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, cross16 said: Great point. I bet it was a lot. Oilers and Flames were supposed to be rebuilding on a similar schedule and here you see the Flames having success and the Oilers stuck at the same level. I know if that was an owner that would eat at me, let alone the fact that it's your biggest rival too. Even if you were trying to rationalize that Chiarelli was doing an OK job, looking 3 hours down the road is all you need to do to really highlight just how poor a job he was actually doing. The Oilers should be better than the Flames right now, and really due to poor management (not just GM but higher) they are not. That has to be very frustrating. I think it was 2 different approaches after the first bit of success in the Flames '15 season vs. the Oilers '17 season. The Flames were humbled by the Ducks in the second round and it was obvious they weren't close to their level, they added Hamilton and Frolik while being non committal to guys like Hudler and Russell. The '17 Oilers lost in 7 to a Ducks team that I don't even think played great in sweeping us and thought they were also unimpressive against the Oilers, they had McDavid and felt they were on the brink so rewarded everyone including Russell without acknowledging any areas for improvement. I don't want to say the Flames have been perfect throughout their rebuilding years, but Treliving has always had a better reading of the pulse of the club than Oilers management and I believe its why the two teams are in different directions at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 4:02 PM, The_People1 said: Because under normal circumstances, they probably should have given Chia the rest of this season. Given articles written 2 years ago showing the sentiment that the Oilers are passing the Flames for good, it must annoy them that the Flames are Cup contending this season while they are barely making playoffs and almost certainly a one and done if they even get in. And again, statistically, this season is one of the best seasons the Oilers have had since their cup final appearance in '06. That should say something about how bad it's been. It's definitely not just Chia, but the moves Chia made compared to the moves Tre made just compounded the issues. They trade a first and a second for Griffith Reinhart, we trade the same+an extra second for Dougie Hamilton. They trade Hall and Eberle for Larsson and Strome (Spooner). We trade Ferland and Hamilton for Lindholm and Hanifin. They make the playoffs once, we make it twice. They had a rebuild that was supposed to be finishing under Chia, while ours was just starting. Our rebuild is practically complete, and they basically are worse off than they started. As much as they have problems from the top down, it was just made that much worse from their biggest rivals down the block making similar moves and being successful from it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 Put a fork in the Hitch team, they are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 19 hours ago, travel_dude said: Put a fork in the Hitch team, they are done. Edmonton, where coaches go to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Edmonton, where coaches go to die. And goalies. And 1st overall picks. And reclammation projects that go back to the scrap heap. And GM's go to be replaced by former Oilers or buddies of former Oilers or brothers of former Oilers. They know a little something about winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: Edmonton, where coaches go to die. And OBC go to live. Long live the red wine summits! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 20 hours ago, travel_dude said: Put a fork in the Hitch team, they are done. Yaaaaa... They're cooked. If they go 19-0-0 the rest of the way, they only hit 97-points. Plus, they have to leapfrog 5 teams to get to 8th. It's not happening. Their season is done. I thought they would make the playoffs. I gave them too much respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Yaaaaa... They're cooked. If they go 19-0-0 the rest of the way, they only hit 97-points. Plus, they have to leapfrog 5 teams to get to 8th. It's not happening. Their season is done. I thought they would make the playoffs. I gave them too much respect. lol. C'mon peeps, you're better than that. I'd love to manage the Oilers. Me: I need buyouts. Katz: how many? Me: let's just start with yes. What a mess. I don't even see how this gets corrected in the next few years. Keepers: McD, Draisaitl, RNH, Klefbom, Nurse. Everyone else, drain the swamp. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, conundrumed said: lol. C'mon peeps, you're better than that. I'd love to manage the Oilers. Me: I need buyouts. Katz: how many? Me: let's just start with yes. What a mess. I don't even see how this gets corrected in the next few years. Keepers: McD, Draisaitl, RNH, Klefbom, Nurse. Everyone else, drain the swamp. lol I would suggest that Nurse needs to move as well. He actually has a high value to other teams. Should trade him before his current bridge deal expires. The other 4 are the only real players on the team. Kassian might give you something back in trade, for an overpaid goon/power forward. Lucic is basically untradeable and buyout proof. Retain 3m, maybe he gets you a 3m player like a Spooner. $71m committed to that team. Just amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 21 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I would suggest that Nurse needs to move as well. He actually has a high value to other teams. Should trade him before his current bridge deal expires. The other 4 are the only real players on the team. Kassian might give you something back in trade, for an overpaid goon/power forward. Lucic is basically untradeable and buyout proof. Retain 3m, maybe he gets you a 3m player like a Spooner. $71m committed to that team. Just amazing. I disagree. Nurse provides a template for up-and-coming dmen in the future as a talented dman that they stuck with. With him and Klefbom, gotta start somewhere. Plus, with both of these guys, what are you getting in a trade that doesn't create a bigger hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 https://oilersnation.com/2019/02/28/jesse-puljujarvi-out-for-the-season-for-edmonton-oilers/ Puljujarvi is out for the season with hip surgery. I didn't know egos were located in the hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, conundrumed said: I disagree. Nurse provides a template for up-and-coming dmen in the future as a talented dman that they stuck with. With him and Klefbom, gotta start somewhere. Plus, with both of these guys, what are you getting in a trade that doesn't create a bigger hole? They way they pay people there, they won;t be able to afford him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 I hope Peter Chiarelli is a guest of Iggy's on Saturday night so we can give hime the standing ovation he truly deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 hours ago, conundrumed said: I disagree. Nurse provides a template for up-and-coming dmen in the future as a talented dman that they stuck with. With him and Klefbom, gotta start somewhere. Plus, with both of these guys, what are you getting in a trade that doesn't create a bigger hole? That's the problem with the Oilers management, they risk exposing either Klefbom and Nurse come expansion draft time. NTC/NMC's were candy for Chiarelli. Kris Russell, Sekera, Koskinen!!...Lucic if course...they'll have to make a decision on Pool Party too! Condors are outplaying their NHL affiliate, what inspiration does that give your prospects ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 Anyone else see that tilt between Gabriel and Lucic? Gabriel was pretty good and got in a few hard blows. The dude has clearly worked on his balance, and those guys make for difficult fighters. Glad guys never figured that out when I was playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 On 3/14/2019 at 10:22 AM, Cowtownguy said: Anyone else see that tilt between Gabriel and Lucic? Gabriel was pretty good and got in a few hard blows. The dude has clearly worked on his balance, and those guys make for difficult fighters. Glad guys never figured that out when I was playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 I counted 24 jersey jabs, 10 rights and 4 lefts thrown by Gabriel, 19 rights thrown by Lucic. Neither of them landed every punch, but I feel that Gabriel made Lucic appear rather unimpressive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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