cross16 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 I wonder if the Oilers are going to go the route of the Flames and find someone like Brian Burke to fix this. One thing you notice about all of their management staff from their owner right down to their scouts is a ton of nepotism and a desire to stay with the Old Boys club. Messier Brother, Gretzky's brother. Scott Howson (who has limited experience outside of Edmonton) etc etc. I'ts not hard to see what the problem is in Edmonton, they consistently do not hire the best people they hire the people that certain people just want to work with. King started down this path in Calgary and if it weren't for the decision to bring in Burke i'm not sure he would have changed course. Oilers need to bring in someone who can be the bad guy to fire all these guys and get actual qualified scouts, GMs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, cross16 said: I wonder if the Oilers are going to go the route of the Flames and find someone like Brian Burke to fix this. One thing you notice about all of their management staff from their owner right down to their scouts is a ton of nepotism and a desire to stay with the Old Boys club. Messier Brother, Gretzky's brother. Scott Howson (who has limited experience outside of Edmonton) etc etc. I'ts not hard to see what the problem is in Edmonton, they consistently do not hire the best people they hire the people that certain people just want to work with. King started down this path in Calgary and if it weren't for the decision to bring in Burke i'm not sure he would have changed course. Oilers need to bring in someone who can be the bad guy to fire all these guys and get actual qualified scouts, GMs etc. Let's just blame the water..... Honestly, they could not have let Chia negotiate the Koskinen deal, so he must have been a lame duck. Whomever they decide upon (Sutter?) will need to have 100% autonomy. You can only blame Chia for the trade results, not the targets of the trade. Somebody identified Spooner as a faster version of Strome. Or identified that Strome was a good target in the first place. Lowe or MacT calling the shots right now is just crazy. Old Boys Club, who couldn't even get it right with the first three 1st overall. Nuge is fine, but that was a no-brainer decision. They had bigger needs than just one junior player. Lack of defense. Poor goalie development. Lack of high end prospects beyond the 1st round. KG is probably the worst choice for an interim GM. Just find a temp coach and ask Hitch to manage the interim GM duties. Replace the GM before the draft. Give up on the season already. PLayoffs not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fins&FIre15 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 It sucks for them man...and I don't feel one bit sorry for 95% of their fanbase. They need to rebuild, yet can't, with the risk of wasting years off mcdavids contract, and he's also good enough to drag them away from higher draft picks, making it a very counterproductive situation. And the current state of their farm is also dreadful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Whomever they decide upon (Sutter?) will need to have 100% autonomy. You can only blame Chia for the trade results, not the targets of the trade. Somebody identified Spooner as a faster version of Strome. Or identified that Strome was a good target in the first place. As fun as it has been to dump on Chiarelli, you're right it's not just him and it goes deeper becuase like you say who is recommending these guys? Their pro scouts are clearly no good either and it's not realistic for chiarelli to scout everyone. Has to rely on his team and his team is to blame as well. Why i think while you had to do this, simply replacing him with someone else and not making deeper changes it not going to change anything. I've said this before and i'll keep saying it, it is not difficult to see why the Oilers suck, it lies right in this fact: Since 2006 (that's 13 drafts) they have 7 players currently on their roster. That includes 4 1st overall picks and a total of 9 picks in the top 10 (not including Bouchard so it's actually 10 but not fair to count him). Only 5 players they drafted are regular and contribution players elsewhere (Petry, Nash, Eberle, Pitlick,Gustafasson) That predates him and spans across multiple GMs. That is an atrocious draft record. Until you fix that, they'll stay a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 The fans and management are all delusional. I mentioned earlier that after the loss to us, they would crash hard. For Nicholson to stand before the masses and proclaim that the current club is good enough just solidifies the utter stupidity of this organization. The lack of hockey IQ on the ice is directly correlated with the lack of hockey IQ up stairs on player selection. See if it was 1 or 2 years you could say, sure we got it wrong, this has been 10-12 years of stupidity. The biggest joke was the hire of Hitchcock and his self glorifying statement " I can fix this" to now " well its up to the guys in the room". I think he now realizes they have 22 plays with minimal hockey IQ!!! But it still continues, you than sign a back up to $4.5 Million who proceeds to let in 2 muffins against Detroit. Hell even the dumbest fan's knew that Lucic's contract would be a boat anchor. Larson for Hall another classic. Now you have ZERO left from the Eberle trade, yet management still has their positions. Getting rid of Chia is just a start, everyone up stairs should be removed, even the janitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 5 hours ago, cross16 said: I wonder if the Oilers are going to go the route of the Flames and find someone like Brian Burke to fix this. I thought that's why they brought in Bob Nicholson. Someone from outside the old boys club who has respect from the hockey world and when he speaks, everybody listens. He's been there 3 years and it looks like the same results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: I thought that's why they brought in Bob Nicholson. Someone from outside the old boys club who has respect from the hockey world and when he speaks, everybody listens. He's been there 3 years and it looks like the same results. He's like King for the Flsmes, the CEO of the whole sports and entertainment corp. He is responsible for much of the business side of things with hockey reporting up to him. I think the Oilers need that "hockey guy" President of Hockey Ops role in between Nicholson and the GM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 4 hours ago, travel_dude said: Let's just blame the water..... Honestly, they could not have let Chia negotiate the Koskinen deal, so he must have been a lame duck. Whomever they decide upon (Sutter?) will need to have 100% autonomy. You can only blame Chia for the trade results, not the targets of the trade. Somebody identified Spooner as a faster version of Strome. Or identified that Strome was a good target in the first place. Lowe or MacT calling the shots right now is just crazy. Old Boys Club, who couldn't even get it right with the first three 1st overall. Nuge is fine, but that was a no-brainer decision. They had bigger needs than just one junior player. Lack of defense. Poor goalie development. Lack of high end prospects beyond the 1st round. KG is probably the worst choice for an interim GM. Just find a temp coach and ask Hitch to manage the interim GM duties. Replace the GM before the draft. Give up on the season already. PLayoffs not happening. I believe that they call them "Red Wine Summits". I am not aware of the origin of the phrase. While it sounds conspiratorial, it does explain some of the problems in their organization. If a committee of older Oilers are making the important decisions, and the GM is seriously constrained, it might explain some of their chaotic choices. It also explains why the Oilers keep making similar mistakes even when the GM is fired. Chiarelli certainly was not the first to offer crazy salaries and term. Anyhoo, I wish the next guy luck. I think they said some newbie named Gretzky or whatever, will take the GM position until they find MacT Lowe the next permanent replacement. He is gonna have to start with a long talk with McLottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 9 hours ago, The_People1 said: That had to be said, and repeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Hey, do you think that Treliving will retire a jersey, or make Chiarelli "Forever a Flame"? ETA: Would it not make sense to consider trading McDavid away now? Perhaps they could complete another rebuild before he is 30, but the last few have not worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...attle-alberta/ A fascinating read from Edmonton's finest that was put out two years ago yesterday. It is full of humour and for those who don't want to read I'll pull out some of the best quotes. Quote The Oilers moved nine points ahead of the Flames in the standings and will not be caught by their rivals this season. In the bigger picture, Edmonton is where Calgary was supposed to be by now, well on their way to being a top-10 National Hockey League team with an long and bright future. I'll just ignore the horrible grammar there and admire the long and bright future that lasted a whopping 4 months from the article date. Quote The Flames are stalled for now, trying to figure out how to be any good in front of sub-par goaltending, wondering if leaders like Johnny Gaudreau and Sean Monahan are the real deal, truly able to carry this team beyond its current state. Numbers speak for themselves, with sup-par goaltending on many nights. Quote Ironically, the pre-game goaltending concerns lied up north, where Oilers fans wondered if they were throwing the two points away by giving AHL call-up Laurent Brossoit his first start of the season. In the end, Brossoit was by far the best goalie in the gameWith Jonas Gustavsson well out of the Oilers’ plans, Broissoit is here to stay. Brossoit has been a phenomenal pick up.... for Winnipeg Quote Calgary’s a wild card team at best now, while the Oilers are well in contention for the Pacific Division lead. It’s a big change in Alberta, and it won’t be changing back soon. Just pure gold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Am I the only one kind of curious about what Chiarelli's plans were in the end? Like, was he about to move Draisaitl out for Mrazek? Buy out Lucic's contract at double the rate? I wonder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 This is important to note. (Though this was done last night before we found out the GM got fired between periods). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Khrox said: This is important to note. (Though this was done last night before we found out the GM got fired between periods). 4th best season? Well, again, i think they will make the playoffs. A 3 game winning streak and they are right back in the pack. They just need to hang in there. I'm still hoping for a Flames vs Oilers first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khrox Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: 4th best season? Yeah, which is sad. But 2 of their top 4 seasons in the last 13 years came under Chia. And they fired him just over halfway through one. That is just how god-awful that organization is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, Khrox said: Yeah, which is sad. But 2 of their top 4 seasons in the last 13 years came under Chia. And they fired him just over halfway through one. That is just how god-awful that organization is. The thing is, they aren't THAT far out of a playoff spot and they fired Chia. I get they fear he may trade away the long term for short term gains but still. The Oilers just might make the playoffs even without trades and this makes the organization look panicky. Any qualified candidates out there looking for a GM job would almost certainly avoid working for the Oilers if they had a choice. I mean, if you are having one of the best seasons in recent franchise history and still get fired, then there's no job security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 13 hours ago, cross16 said: He's like King for the Flsmes, the CEO of the whole sports and entertainment corp. He is responsible for much of the business side of things with hockey reporting up to him. I think the Oilers need that "hockey guy" President of Hockey Ops role in between Nicholson and the GM. That's even worse. What business and entertainment qualifications does Bob Nicholson have? He's a hockey guru through and through. He should be scouting the international leagues and minor leagues for the best players and bringing them to his team. He should write up the Oilers development program from the ground up. He should dictate player development in general and head the draft. When he was with Hockey Canada, did he not do that? Was he just business development for Hockey Canada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 12 hours ago, Cowtownguy said: Am I the only one kind of curious about what Chiarelli's plans were in the end? Like, was he about to move Draisaitl out for Mrazek? Buy out Lucic's contract at double the rate? I wonder... Lucic's contract is almost buyout proof for 4 years after this. Cap hits of $3.65, $5.65, $4.125, and $5.625m. That's not much of a cap savings for his cont6ract years remaining. Add $625k for 4 years after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: The thing is, they aren't THAT far out of a playoff spot and they fired Chia. I get they fear he may trade away the long term for short term gains but still. The Oilers just might make the playoffs even without trades and this makes the organization look panicky. Any qualified candidates out there looking for a GM job would almost certainly avoid working for the Oilers if they had a choice. I mean, if you are having one of the best seasons in recent franchise history and still get fired, then there's no job security. You sound almost as delusional as some of the Kool-Ade drinkers. Yes, they are 3 wins out of a playoff spot. They are also only 5 points up on last place LA. 9 teams all fighting each other for 2 spots. They don't have a winning record against the West. It's possible, and the GM will try to find something that helps get them there. But, let's face it, they are looking worse over the last month than better. 5-6-0 this month. 6-8-0 last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fins&FIre15 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 14 hours ago, sak22 said: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...attle-alberta/ A fascinating read from Edmonton's finest that was put out two years ago yesterday. It is full of humour and for those who don't want to read I'll pull out some of the best quotes. I'll just ignore the horrible grammar there and admire the long and bright future that lasted a whopping 4 months from the article date. Numbers speak for themselves, with sup-par goaltending on many nights. Brossoit has been a phenomenal pick up.... for Winnipeg Just pure gold. Haha wow, I posted this article in a different topic without realizing it had been brought up in this one. XD What a read though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, The_People1 said: The thing is, they aren't THAT far out of a playoff spot and they fired Chia. I get they fear he may trade away the long term for short term gains but still. The Oilers just might make the playoffs even without trades and this makes the organization look panicky. Any qualified candidates out there looking for a GM job would almost certainly avoid working for the Oilers if they had a choice. I mean, if you are having one of the best seasons in recent franchise history and still get fired, then there's no job security. The losing culture in Edmonton is quite obvious right now. All of their fans are whining about how the club is ruined for the next GM. Is it that complex? Surely, they have enough players on their roster to form a 4th line. They also have enough bums to form a 1st line (McDavid, Draisiatl, someone). Once Sekera and Klefbom return, they should have a decent foundation for defence along with Larsson. So, the next guy just needs to address that middle 6. After the draft, they may have a another piece for the second line. Yamamoto and Puljujarvi should be coming up soon. 4 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Lucic's contract is almost buyout proof for 4 years after this. Cap hits of $3.65, $5.65, $4.125, and $5.625m. That's not much of a cap savings for his cont6ract years remaining. Add $625k for 4 years after that. Can you explain this to me? I have heard it before. How can a contract be buyout proof and why would Lucic want that? Last year, he claimed that he would be in great physical condition and skate faster. The guy has demonstrated no effort at all given he is unfit. Maybe they should bring in Hartley for a bit to get him into shape or leave of his own volition. The GM needs full autonomy (meaning an old fart like Hitch or Sutter) and the coach needs to be able to spank the players a bit. Hire a Hartley type of guy who will get them into shape and press them hard enough that the rot becomes obvious. Trade the losers who are dragging them down. As a Flames fan, keep on doin' what you are doin' up there folks. Looks great on ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 34 minutes ago, travel_dude said: You sound almost as delusional as some of the Kool-Ade drinkers. Yes, they are 3 wins out of a playoff spot. They are also only 5 points up on last place LA. 9 teams all fighting each other for 2 spots. They don't have a winning record against the West. It's possible, and the GM will try to find something that helps get them there. But, let's face it, they are looking worse over the last month than better. 5-6-0 this month. 6-8-0 last month. But by this logic, the Canucks, Coyotes, Ducks, Blues, etc should all fire their GMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 4 hours ago, The_People1 said: That's even worse. What business and entertainment qualifications does Bob Nicholson have? He's a hockey guru through and through. He should be scouting the international leagues and minor leagues for the best players and bringing them to his team. He should write up the Oilers development program from the ground up. He should dictate player development in general and head the draft. When he was with Hockey Canada, did he not do that? Was he just business development for Hockey Canada? No, and Yes, sort of. He got his start in minor player development and coaching, but since the 90s his roles have been more business development roles. He oversaw everything at Hockey Canada and while he would help pick the management terms for international events, he wasn't involved in the player selection process. He worked more on everything from grassroots development, safety in minor hockey but also growing the revenues of Hockey Canada through sales/Marketing (he negotiated the TV rights deal for the World Juniors with TSN as well as the agreement that Canada hosts every 3rd WJC) So while he does have a bit of a technical background in Hockey it was't his focus at Hockey Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, cross16 said: No, and Yes, sort of. He got his start in minor player development and coaching, but since the 90s his roles have been more business development roles. He oversaw everything at Hockey Canada and while he would help pick the management terms for international events, he wasn't involved in the player selection process. He worked more on everything from grassroots development, safety in minor hockey but also growing the revenues of Hockey Canada through sales/Marketing (he negotiated the TV rights deal for the World Juniors with TSN as well as the agreement that Canada hosts every 3rd WJC) So while he does have a bit of a technical background in Hockey it was't his focus at Hockey Canada. Thanks. I always thought he was more involved in selecting the team's players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Cowtownguy said: Can you explain this to me? I have heard it before. How can a contract be buyout proof and why would Lucic want that? Last year, he claimed that he would be in great physical condition and skate faster. The guy has demonstrated no effort at all given he is unfit. Maybe they should bring in Hartley for a bit to get him into shape or leave of his own volition. It has to do with the breakdown of his contract and salary vs signing bonus. When you buyout a player you still have to pay them 100% of their signing bonuses and those count 100% against the cap. Cap relief in the form of a buyout only comes by applying 2/3 of the remaining salary against the cap spread over over the years remaining. In Lucic's case his salary is small relative to his cap hit, so the Oilers get almost no relief by the buyout. Here is what it would look like. You can see they basically get no cap relief except the first season. Cap Savings 2019-20 $3,000,000 $6,000,000 $625,000 $2,375,000 $3,625,000 2020-21 $1,000,000 $6,000,000 $625,000 $375,000 $5,625,000 2021-22 $2,500,000 $6,000,000 $625,000 $1,875,000 $4,125,000 2022-23 $1,000,000 $6,000,000 $625,000 $375,000 $5,625,000 2023-24 $0 $0 $625,000 -$625,000 $625,000 2024-25 $0 $0 $625,000 -$625,000 $625,000 2025-26 $0 $0 $625,000 -$625,000 $625,000 2026-27 $0 $0 $625,000 -$625,000 $625,000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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