Flames Defense

[The_People1]

18 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

We're doing that just fine without him. We're full on lousy regardless of him. If we never signed him, we'd be precisely where we are right now.

Jordan Oesterle is hardly the bane of this roster's ineptitude. I'm certain there are more pressing issues than crucifying Jordan Oesterle.

Maybe Backlund, Lindholm, Huberdeau, Kadri, Andersson, Hanifin and Mangiapane should distract from anything Oesterle is or isn't doing.

 

No man, at least Gilbert is an NHLer.  I also don't complain about Deuhr, Greer, etc.  They are meeting baseline expectations for their roles. 

 

Oesterle can skate well and outside of that, has AHL-level IQ.  Shouldn't be in the NHL anymore.  Gilbert can get beat by high talent.  Oesterle can get beat by Oesterle himself.  Oesterle is Oesterle's worst enemy.  These are not the same thing.

[The_People1]

13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

 

This is very misleading. Conroy said opportunity for young players but also clarified no one is going to get promised a job. Did Oesterle take away an opportunity for someone? someone couldn't beat him out for the job in pre season?

 

I think the carrot was dangled but that's all they can do is dangle it. Cant force someone to eat it. Not to mention it took them less than 10 games to call him up. Opportunity is not just about pre season, unless your Darryl Sutter. 

 

I know it's hindsight but Solovyov looks so ready just three weeks after the season started.

 

And I mean, I guess it comes down to how bad Oesterle has been.  If he was actually steady, then no complaints from me.  For example, Stetcher was decent last season.  So there is a case to not give the carrot if an obvious upgrade from outside was available.

[conundrumed]

8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

No man, at least Gilbert is an NHLer.  I also don't complain about Deuhr, Greer, etc.  They are meeting baseline expectations for their roles. 

 

Oesterle can skate well and outside of that, has AHL-level IQ.  Shouldn't be in the NHL anymore.  Gilbert can get beat by high talent.  Oesterle can get beat by Oesterle himself.  Oesterle is Oesterle's worst enemy.  These are not the same thing.

Gilbert sucks too, but has the advantage of familiarity. Still, none of this actually matters. We can literally say the same things about a Andersson-Hanifin pairing. Defensively, they are generally hot garbage, not at league min salaries. Neither are good defensively.

Regardless, here's what Treliving thinks for building a D. Sutter added Z and Guddy probably.

I'm sure Toronto will love him adding Klingberg to a team starving for actual Dmen. BT's teams need to outscore his builds. Alternatively, they're us.

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Conroy assessed a potential need. He prolly assumed Kyl could be back also, after he said all of the right things.

The Oesterle hate is hilarious. Aren't Conroy and Tanguay buds? I'm sure Oesterle wasn't just a whim.

Huska liked his preseason, which I saw as taking liberties with joining the rush. I'm sure Lalonde would have been pissed to see him do that.lol

But Lalonde isn't our coach, and you play the way your coach tells you to and within whom he pairs you with. As a 6-7 dman, nobody's asking your opinion.

Oesterle needs to adjust to how this roster plays. Putting 10 more years behind him would likely be beneficial. The play has slowed down about 60%, no point in being hyper. Be a snail that can't pass/accept a pass and he'll fit like a glove.

Honestly, Oesterle has zero to do with how bad this team looks. It's like blaming your 4th line for not scoring in bunches.

"If it weren't for Oesterle, Greer and Vladar, we'd be crushing it".lol

JFC, Oesterle should regret signing here, which really has become a theme for this mess. Even the basement of the roster needs to be driven to hate it here. He coulda been a #5 on the Leafs/Oilers.lol

I'm entirely uncertain of what is more toxic, the playing environment or the fan environment.

The desserts are potentially quite just though. This is where magnifying the Satoshi Nakamoto out of every hint of a negative gets you.

I bolded the part there. And I think a lot of us do place a lot of blame on fourth liners for contributions or lack thereof yet it's the rest of the team that is the problem. 

[The_People1]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I bolded the part there. And I think a lot of us do place a lot of blame on fourth liners for contributions or lack thereof yet it's the rest of the team that is the problem. 

 

Certainly lots of blame to go around.  Let's not kid ourselves.  But on the topic of Oesterle specifically, like in isolation, he needs to go.  Even if we are 8-0-0, he needs to go.  He's not NHL material.

 

Okay let's move on and talk about the rest of the team.

[robrob74]

The Flames signed organizational depth by signing Mark Pysyk today.

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, robrob74 said:

The Flames signed organizational depth by signing Mark Pysyk today.

Wings signed him last year. Missed the entire season to Achilles surgery - the career killer.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

*Bump

 

Calgary Flames assign Oliver Kylington to AHL Wranglers on conditioning assignment | TSN

 

A change to the D landscape on the horizon?

[zima]

I hope he can play his way back on the top 2 lines . Here's hoping. Been meaning to ask any one know how his absence will affect his contract is he still able to take advantage of hisd lack of play and still be able to leave when his contract is over even though he wasn't here for most of it  

[The_People1]

36 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

*Bump

 

Calgary Flames assign Oliver Kylington to AHL Wranglers on conditioning assignment | TSN

 

A change to the D landscape on the horizon?

 

Nice.  Good to hear he's on his way back.  Timing is interesting as we near TDL.

[robrob74]

41 minutes ago, zima said:

I hope he can play his way back on the top 2 lines . Here's hoping. Been meaning to ask any one know how his absence will affect his contract is he still able to take advantage of hisd lack of play and still be able to leave when his contract is over even though he wasn't here for most of it  

it is probably a lot like being injured I would assume.

[zima]

6 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

it is probably a lot like being injured I would assume.

Okay and that means what? He has not played for almost 2 seasons and if his contract ends this yr he just starts playing for a couple of months and he is able to leave when his contract ends just like he has played the whole time?

[robrob74]

18 minutes ago, zima said:

Okay and that means what? He has not played for almost 2 seasons and if his contract ends this yr he just starts playing for a couple of months and he is able to leave when his contract ends just like he has played the whole time?

i think so. It would be the same as someone going on injury reserve, if a player was injured the whole time they'd be able to leave. 
 

It sounds like he was dealing with very harsh mental illness. For him being alive today might be a big feat. I don't think it's a case of him taking advantage of the system and money... some people, in these situations could be a life or death thing. Of course we don't know the depth, and that is about as worst case as it gets. 
 

We think, wow, what would we do for those millions, but until we are put in those situations, we don't know. I left a 120K per year job because it took my soul away. I hated myself in it. If I stayed I might have gotten up to around 200K per year. But I would have killed myself if I stayed. I wasn't willing to sacrifice parts of my being to be in that position. Of course at the time I also just got through a lot of life stuff, with some deaths in the family including my dad, my cancer, a few surgeries, a sick nephews, and a lot more that builds up. We all have something going on. 
 

we don't know how healing happens or how long it takes because it is different for everyone. My sister has been off work for three years because her son has nearly died twice with needing double lung transplants and then having two different ones in just over a year. She's been going through hell! 
 

i wouldn't begrudge him if he goes, good on him that he might have the ability to have a change of scenery and fresh start. Some don't have that luxury.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

*Bump

 

Calgary Flames assign Oliver Kylington to AHL Wranglers on conditioning assignment | TSN

 

A change to the D landscape on the horizon?

There is one coming in 2 months anyways, I don't think this news is going to expedite things.  The two guys most likely on the way out are #1 and #2 in PK TOI/g, Kylington has spent less time killing penalties as a Calgary Flame than Connor Mackey in 100 more games, so I don't get any thought that he makes anyone expendable, he just pushes out Oesterle and then can look into a bigger role after the deadline when he should be adjusted.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, sak22 said:

There is one coming in 2 months anyways, I don't think this news is going to expedite things.  The two guys most likely on the way out are #1 and #2 in PK TOI/g, Kylington has spent less time killing penalties as a Calgary Flame than Connor Mackey in 100 more games, so I don't get any thought that he makes anyone expendable, he just pushes out Oesterle and then can look into a bigger role after the deadline when he should be adjusted.

 

So, we likely have to trade Hanifin.

If Kyl can get back up to the level he played, then we won't miss Hanifin so much.

But Tanev then needs to be kept.

I think we are a defensive D-man short whether we keep or trade Hanifin.

Offesnive guys, we have enough even if we trade Hanifin.

[cross16]

I too don't think the Kylington news relates to the roster at all. The Flames will let Kylington work as he needs to and do whatever he needs. The roster and any changes made to it I don't think will impact how and when Kylington plays. 

 

Good for Kylington to continue to work to come back. Hope it continues to go well. 

[sak22]

 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if Gilbert misses some significant time.  Hope Kuz gets a look or two while up, still like Solo better but the last few viewings of Kuznetsov for me have been better.  Still good to give the opportunities to the kids.

[cross16]

Interesting. 

 

I like the fact the Flames want to give him a shot and so far I think this is my favorite thing about this season. Flames are willing to apply a "let's see what happens" mentality as opposed to needed to fit everything into s specific box. 

 

Be honest I've never really liked his game when I watch him but hoping he can prove me wrong. I like Solo better as well but I can understand the decision here. 

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Interesting. 

 

I like the fact the Flames want to give him a shot and so far I think this is my favorite thing about this season. Flames are willing to apply a "let's see what happens" mentality as opposed to needed to fit everything into s specific box. 

 

Be honest I've never really liked his game when I watch him but hoping he can prove me wrong. I love Solo better as well but I can understand the decision here. 

 

Solo was given a minor shot here and they need him to work on some things.

Kiz coming up is to see where he is as well.

More in the defensive mold, so it makes some sense.

I will be happier when we get a look at Poirier.

Gilbert, Desimone and Oesterle are passable, but not really the future.

Gilbert has surprised a bit, but he is a 3rd pairing guy at best.

No issue.

Oesterle is a bit of a waste of time.

Doesn't seem capable of fixing his issues.

Cheap depth, but not good cheap depth.

[conundrumed]

2020 could yet be a productive draft yet, considering most didn't play much hockey in 2020 for development.

Solovyov did, and Poirier a bit less, so should realistically be ahead of the curve. Although Poirier is now losing that development time.

Zary and Kuz played less, and each between 3 different teams, Kerins pretty much not at all. Hoping Kerins can be as effective as Zary once he adds muscle and experience (& injury-free).

[sak22]

 

Either the just wanted a spare body for the back to backs or Gilbert is close.

[cross16]

27 minutes ago, sak22 said:

 

Either the just wanted a spare body for the back to backs or Gilbert is close.

 

Probably right. 

 

but man it sucks watching Ostserle play when guys like this are on the farm. 

[MP5029]

Here’s my take on the current UFA stuff…

 

1. we really don’t know much

2. we know none of them have signed

3. teams have engaged 

4. nothing has happened either way yet

5. very reasonable and generous offers have been given 

 

that’s what we know fore sure, my speculation is that if they wanted to stay they would have signed already, not one of the pending UFA’s have produced career years or number or have been extremely notable in play.  So, theses are not quite the same situations as was with Gaudreau and Tachuck….both of whom had stand out years, so UFA would be easy for them to pick and choose, I don’t especially get that sense with the current group, hence why Conroy is playing the wait game…clearly the situation is looking like trades for all, with a lot talk in between and some positing stuff like re-engaged contract talks, but in the end we have not seen or heard any deals being even close to that.

 

to me it sounds more like the current contract talks are just a positioning thing more than anything else to get other teams to pull the pin…I think starting around Jan 30/1Feb thing will be heating up, I think the lack of moves is mostly due to one of 2 things:

 

1. teams are not quite ready to make any significant moves just yet (mostly this)

 

and

 

2. offers have been pretty underwhelming (probably because of the first reason)

 

At the end of the day I figure they will all be traded maybe even a few surprises in package deals (possible but unlikely), and I say this cause if not, they all would have signed already.

 

its kinda black and white at this point if they are not signed they are being traded 

 

 

[sak22]

18 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

 

that’s what we know fore sure, my speculation is that if they wanted to stay they would have signed already,

 

 

I don't necessarily agree with this, I don't think Nylander spent all year on the fence and woke up and decided to sign.  Lots of guys go down to the wire with their teams and a lot are more important pieces to their team (Ovechkin, Malkin, Letang, Landeskog, Stamkos, Nuge) you always let the negotiations dictate your next move.  If there is no communication its a good indicator to move on, if you are nowhere close in terms then it is also an indicator to move on.  If communications are good and close why not continue.  Just because a player wants to get the best offer possible doesn't mean he doesn't want to be here, the team also needs to make sure the terms are best for the team.  One thing to remember is that the teams pulled all offers and ended negotiations after the Heritage Classic and decided to take time to reflect.

[conundrumed]

News! Likely belongs in the Wranglers thread, but...

https://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/calgary-wranglers/oliver-kylington-ready-to-return-to-game-action-with-flames-farm-team