Flames Defense

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

They also didn't need the space so there was no point in putting Rooney on LTIR. 

 

Rooney was wearing a sling during the Bonfire (kick off party) so I think he was always going to be out long term. 

 

Well, I wasn't suggesting that there was any benefit to placing him on LTIR until now.  

I do really question keeping Hunt on the roster vs waiving him.

Not sure of the order involved in calling up a guy like Zary and the LTIR placement, though.

What I am asking is how you would bring up Zary and waive Hunt.

Is there an order that maximizes LTIR or is it not impacted?

[cross16]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Well, I wasn't suggesting that there was any benefit to placing him on LTIR until now.  

I do really question keeping Hunt on the roster vs waiving him.

Not sure of the order involved in calling up a guy like Zary and the LTIR placement, though.

What I am asking is how you would bring up Zary and waive Hunt.

Is there an order that maximizes LTIR or is it not impacted?

 

Maximizing LTIR is more of a start of season activity that is not as relevant right now. 

 

I think with Zary it's more about what's best for him. I think when you bring a player like that up it's to keep him here and they likely are not in a position to do that right now. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Maximizing LTIR is more of a start of season activity that is not as relevant right now. 

 

I think with Zary it's more about what's best for him. I think when you bring a player like that up it's to keep him here and they likely are not in a position to do that right now. 

 

We are otherwise stuck with Hunt at 4C.

I don't know the extent of Ruzicka's shoulder injury, but if long term then maybe Zary is best.

 

I will be honest, I have not been impressed with Hunt.

[sak22]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We are otherwise stuck with Hunt at 4C.

I don't know the extent of Ruzicka's shoulder injury, but if long term then maybe Zary is best.

 

I will be honest, I have not been impressed with Hunt.

Ruzicka skated today and will not go tonight, I'm guessing its only day to day at this point.

[travel_dude]

30 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Ruzicka skated today and will not go tonight, I'm guessing its only day to day at this point.

 

That's awesome.  Hate to see him derailed when he was having a strong start.

On a side note, I would still like to see Zary gets games.

[The_People1]

Solovyov was steady.  Nothing fancy but that's okay.  He played the Xs and O's well.  Interested to see him a few more games and don't want to see Osterle back in the lineup again the rest of this season, unless the plan is to tank for a top pick.

[jjgallow]

23 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Do those new Kevlar undergear work?

 

100% works.   The only possible negative is some discussion about it being a tad warm depending on the brand and design.

 

But I just would have assumed by now that this would have been adapted to their jerseys etc, at least....

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Solovyov was steady.  Nothing fancy but that's okay.  He played the Xs and O's well.  Interested to see him a few more games and don't want to see Osterle back in the lineup again the rest of this season, unless the plan is to tank for a top pick.

So let me see if I have this straight. Oesterle, a 6-7 dman, is a big problem with this team. Do I have that straight?

So, like, what you'd expect to be the 23rd to 25th best player on your roster is presenting the problem we're wasting our breath discussing?

The other Dmen, they look good? The top one who took that incredibly dumb suspension, was he any good at D prior to that? But that 6-7 guy at league min, he was supposed to be the calming influence? Shoulda traded for Maatta then. He costs more. But he's likely the odd man out with Edvinsson.

Start at a 5th and negotiate. Him and Tanev would be good shutdown guys. Move Vladar to recoup the pick or waive him for space.

So now how are you going to score? I'm on pins and needles for Pelletier to come back. He can move the needle imho. We saw it last year, he brings elements to our game that we lack. He's fast up and down the ice, is NOT afraid of the puck or driving the net. Just a really smart player. He's not your PPG guy but he introduces a different look, especially for the players he's with. He'll add elements we need and maybe it can wake everyone up to think as fast as he does. Injects some youthful enthusiasm I hope.

[The_People1]

19 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So let me see if I have this straight. Oesterle, a 6-7 dman, is a big problem with this team. Do I have that straight?

So, like, what you'd expect to be the 23rd to 25th best player on your roster is presenting the problem we're wasting our breath discussing?

The other Dmen, they look good? The top one who took that incredibly dumb suspension, was he any good at D prior to that? But that 6-7 guy at league min, he was supposed to be the calming influence? Shoulda traded for Maatta then. He costs more. But he's likely the odd man out with Edvinsson.

Start at a 5th and negotiate. Him and Tanev would be good shutdown guys. Move Vladar to recoup the pick or waive him for space.

So now how are you going to score? I'm on pins and needles for Pelletier to come back. He can move the needle imho. We saw it last year, he brings elements to our game that we lack. He's fast up and down the ice, is NOT afraid of the puck or driving the net. Just a really smart player. He's not your PPG guy but he introduces a different look, especially for the players he's with. He'll add elements we need and maybe it can wake everyone up to think as fast as he does. Injects some youthful enthusiasm I hope.

 

Which Pelletier are you talking about?  Never saw this version before.  But an injection of energy in philosophy would be a huge boost.  I don't expect any offense from him though.  

 

Here I'm saying a bad 6-7 D could sink us to the absolute basement and you think a bottom 6 energy guy would completely change our fortunes?

 

Osterle is bad because he doesn't do the simple things right.  He is dangerous when he's on the ice.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

100% works.   The only possible negative is some discussion about it being a tad warm depending on the brand and design.

 

But I just would have assumed by now that this would have been adapted to their jerseys etc, at least....

 

Interesting.  I never tried them before but considering buying the Kevlar for wrists.

[conundrumed]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Which Pelletier are you talking about?  Never saw this version before.  But an injection of energy in philosophy would be a huge boost.  I don't expect any offense from him though.  

 

Here I'm saying a bad 6-7 D could sink us to the absolute basement and you think a bottom 6 energy guy would completely change our fortunes?

 

Osterle is bad because he doesn't do the simple things right.  He is dangerous when he's on the ice.

There are waaaaay bigger fish to fry. The rest of the roster has generally been yikes. Even your 18 to 23 guys reflect that. 1-17 is scarier.

[The_People1]

49 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

There are waaaaay bigger fish to fry. The rest of the roster has generally been yikes. Even your 18 to 23 guys reflect that. 1-17 is scarier.

 

Agreed.

 

But Osterle needs to go still.

 

But agreed, there are bigger problems here.

[jjgallow]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

There are waaaaay bigger fish to fry. The rest of the roster has generally been yikes. Even your 18 to 23 guys reflect that. 1-17 is scarier.

 

4 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.

 

But Osterle needs to go still.

 

But agreed, there are bigger problems here.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/sportsnets-2024-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-first-edition/

 

7 fish to fry in the first 12 picks (all D).

 

At this stage seems to be viewed as a "meh" draft, which is actually perfect for acquiring high picks and great D.

[conundrumed]

21 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Agreed.

 

But Osterle needs to go still.

 

But agreed, there are bigger problems here.

Hanifin-Andersson pairing bothers me a lot. They suck together on D. Tanev maybe can boost a partner, but either it has to be a specific type or the wear/frustration is really showing. Z has warts defensively, but re-up him and give him an A ahead of everyone else. His heart is real and he plays for the jersey. His sound bites are incredible. Typical of Russians, they aren't carefully manicured. He bleeds emotion. You almost feel like he's fighting back tears. The rest of the team has zero of leaving me feeling like their words are genuine. Just typical yeah yeah yeah yeah the long version.

Gilbert and Oesterle are whatever, 7th dmen. Solovyov is pretty sound with size and I hope he progresses into a reliable Maatta-type. Just play solid D coverage first and foremost.

[travel_dude]

18 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Hanifin-Andersson pairing bothers me a lot. They suck together on D. Tanev maybe can boost a partner, but either it has to be a specific type or the wear/frustration is really showing. Z has warts defensively, but re-up him and give him an A ahead of everyone else. His heart is real and he plays for the jersey. His sound bites are incredible. Typical of Russians, they aren't carefully manicured. He bleeds emotion. You almost feel like he's fighting back tears. The rest of the team has zero of leaving me feeling like their words are genuine. Just typical yeah yeah yeah yeah the long version.

Gilbert and Oesterle are whatever, 7th dmen. Solovyov is pretty sound with size and I hope he progresses into a reliable Maatta-type. Just play solid D coverage first and foremost.

 

I would sooner see Weegar-Ras.  Only 2 close to top pairing.

Z is a great team guy and not bad at clearing the net front.

Tanev is still solid, just losing a bit of a step with all the injuries.

Gilbert and Oesterle are whatever, probably better than they have played but nothing higher than a 6.

As risky as his play was, we really are missing Kylington.

Other than Z, he was our best skater.

 

I am almost to the point of just cutting bait with the guys like Hanifin.

He's not rreally showing as a 1/2 or even a 3/4.

Just playing okay.

Nothing he does is elite.

Would rather trade him for a young forward.

Couldn't be much worse results as we are seeing.

[jjgallow]

21 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Hanifin-Andersson pairing bothers me a lot. They suck together on D. Tanev maybe can boost a partner, but either it has to be a specific type or the wear/frustration is really showing.

 

I do not understand at all why this ever happened for even a single regular shift, ever.   Powerplay, fine whatever.

 

But actual hockey?  they should never be on the ice at the same time and the fact that we were makes me think someone does not know what they are doing at a fundamental level.  Frankly even PP, it raises eyebrows, the othe team will score some shorthanded goals that way.

 

21 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Z has warts defensively, but re-up him and give him an A ahead of everyone else. His heart is real and he plays for the jersey. His sound bites are incredible. Typical of Russians, they aren't carefully manicured. He bleeds emotion. You almost feel like he's fighting back tears.

 

Should have gotten captaincy that same day.

 

21 hours ago, conundrumed said:

The rest of the team has zero of leaving me feeling like their words are genuine. Just typical yeah yeah yeah yeah the long version.

Gilbert and Oesterle are whatever, 7th dmen. Solovyov is pretty sound with size and I hope he progresses into a reliable Maatta-type. Just play solid D coverage first and foremost.

 

We should experiment with free agents, waiver claims, PTOs.    It can't get worse.   What I'm more concerned with is the pipeline and this unfortunately is in a similar defensive state to what we see on the ice.

[conundrumed]

23 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

We should experiment with free agents, waiver claims, PTOs. 

The thing is, I think Oesterle is the best of the cheap 6-7 guys that were available. Even the higher level signings, Orlov and Klingberg haven't looked good. It's a tough gig finding consistent dmen, especially the ones that play solid in their own end.

Then there's the issue of tieing up contract spots in a search. Russia falling off of the map isn't helping. Sweden is getting ploughed hard by everyone. Nothing against Suniev and Lipinski, but there were a lot of Dmen around. But we need a year of being able to pile up some picks. We definitely see the end game of trading away far too many picks in the BT years. I get the whole mandate thing and there's enough blame to go around. Can only be hopeful that our current prospects blossom nicely. Because we sure fornicated ourselves.

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

The thing is, I think Oesterle is the best of the cheap 6-7 guys that were available. Even the higher level signings, Orlov and Klingberg haven't looked good. It's a tough gig finding consistent dmen, especially the ones that play solid in their own end.

Then there's the issue of tieing up contract spots in a search. Russia falling off of the map isn't helping. Sweden is getting ploughed hard by everyone. Nothing against Suniev and Lipinski, but there were a lot of Dmen around. But we need a year of being able to pile up some picks. We definitely see the end game of trading away far too many picks in the BT years. I get the whole mandate thing and there's enough blame to go around. Can only be hopeful that our current prospects blossom nicely. Because we sure fornicated ourselves.

 

He's good, but like you say earlier he can't have an impactful difference for us, what I mean is, get some more D in the system under 23 years old, because we have very little really.   Poirier, Morin.    The issue for me isn't that we're bad on defence, but that we don't really have a way in the next few years to make that better.   

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

He's good, but like you say earlier he can't have an impactful difference for us, what I mean is, get some more D in the system under 23 years old, because we have very little really.   Poirier, Morin.    The issue for me isn't that we're bad on defence, but that we don't really have a way in the next few years to make that better.   

 

So, not every D-man that gets NHL games when they are young is going to be a Makar.  Some develop with the competition.  Poirier is getting there but took a bad cut.  Solo is as well, but the track may be difficult since he hasn't developed entirely.  Kuz is a work in progress.  But saying we have nothing is strange.  

[jjgallow]

24 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

So, not every D-man that gets NHL games when they are young is going to be a Makar.  Some develop with the competition.  Poirier is getting there but took a bad cut.  Solo is as well, but the track may be difficult since he hasn't developed entirely.  Kuz is a work in progress.  But saying we have nothing is strange.  

 

Seriously is nobody concerned that all our assets are getting sliced up?    What is this, the industrial revolution?  we have nano-materials on the cheap these days, gsus.

 

I didn't say we have nothing, I said we have very little and imho that's what you just described too.

 

Imho, "they might not turn into Makar" is not a good justification for "winging it on D"

[The_People1]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:30 PM, conundrumed said:

The thing is, I think Oesterle is the best of the cheap 6-7 guys that were available. Even the higher level signings, Orlov and Klingberg haven't looked good. It's a tough gig finding consistent dmen, especially the ones that play solid in their own end.

Then there's the issue of tieing up contract spots in a search. Russia falling off of the map isn't helping. Sweden is getting ploughed hard by everyone. Nothing against Suniev and Lipinski, but there were a lot of Dmen around. But we need a year of being able to pile up some picks. We definitely see the end game of trading away far too many picks in the BT years. I get the whole mandate thing and there's enough blame to go around. Can only be hopeful that our current prospects blossom nicely. Because we sure fornicated ourselves.

 

It looks like Solovyov was more ready than Conroy gave him credit for.  Conroy sort of lied.  He said he would dangle the carrot.  He said he wouldn't fill every position with veterans so there would be room on the roster for the kids can fight for a job at camp.  Then he brings in Oesterle.

[conundrumed]

50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It looks like Solovyov was more ready than Conroy gave him credit for.  Conroy sort of lied.  He said he would dangle the carrot.  He said he wouldn't fill every position with veterans so there would be room on the roster for the kids can fight for a job at camp.  Then he brings in Oesterle.

Conroy assessed a potential need. He prolly assumed Kyl could be back also, after he said all of the right things.

The Oesterle hate is hilarious. Aren't Conroy and Tanguay buds? I'm sure Oesterle wasn't just a whim.

Huska liked his preseason, which I saw as taking liberties with joining the rush. I'm sure Lalonde would have been pissed to see him do that.lol

But Lalonde isn't our coach, and you play the way your coach tells you to and within whom he pairs you with. As a 6-7 dman, nobody's asking your opinion.

Oesterle needs to adjust to how this roster plays. Putting 10 more years behind him would likely be beneficial. The play has slowed down about 60%, no point in being hyper. Be a snail that can't pass/accept a pass and he'll fit like a glove.

Honestly, Oesterle has zero to do with how bad this team looks. It's like blaming your 4th line for not scoring in bunches.

"If it weren't for Oesterle, Greer and Vladar, we'd be crushing it".lol

JFC, Oesterle should regret signing here, which really has become a theme for this mess. Even the basement of the roster needs to be driven to hate it here. He coulda been a #5 on the Leafs/Oilers.lol

I'm entirely uncertain of what is more toxic, the playing environment or the fan environment.

The desserts are potentially quite just though. This is where magnifying the Satoshi Nakamoto out of every hint of a negative gets you.

[The_People1]

11 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Conroy assessed a potential need. He prolly assumed Kyl could be back also, after he said all of the right things.

The Oesterle hate is hilarious. Aren't Conroy and Tanguay buds? I'm sure Oesterle wasn't just a whim.

Huska liked his preseason, which I saw as taking liberties with joining the rush. I'm sure Lalonde would have been pissed to see him do that.lol

But Lalonde isn't our coach, and you play the way your coach tells you to and within whom he pairs you with. As a 6-7 dman, nobody's asking your opinion.

Oesterle needs to adjust to how this roster plays. Putting 10 more years behind him would likely be beneficial. The play has slowed down about 60%, no point in being hyper. Be a snail that can't pass/accept a pass and he'll fit like a glove.

Honestly, Oesterle has zero to do with how bad this team looks. It's like blaming your 4th line for not scoring in bunches.

"If it weren't for Oesterle, Greer and Vladar, we'd be crushing it".lol

JFC, Oesterle should regret signing here, which really has become a theme for this mess. Even the basement of the roster needs to be driven to hate it here. He coulda been a #5 on the Leafs/Oilers.lol

I'm entirely uncertain of what is more toxic, the playing environment or the fan environment.

The desserts are potentially quite just though. This is where magnifying the Satoshi Nakamoto out of every hint of a negative gets you.

 

I really should like Oesterle.  He's taking us to the promised land this season.  Top 3 lottery here we go.

 

The plan was to pump his value up and then trade him at TDL right?

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

I really should like Oesterle.  He's taking us to the promised land this season.  Top 3 lottery here we go.

 

The plan was to pump his value up and then trade him at TDL right?

We're doing that just fine without him. We're full on lousy regardless of him. If we never signed him, we'd be precisely where we are right now.

Jordan Oesterle is hardly the bane of this roster's ineptitude. I'm certain there are more pressing issues than crucifying Jordan Oesterle.

Maybe Backlund, Lindholm, Huberdeau, Kadri, Andersson, Hanifin and Mangiapane should distract from anything Oesterle is or isn't doing.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

It looks like Solovyov was more ready than Conroy gave him credit for.  Conroy sort of lied.  He said he would dangle the carrot.  He said he wouldn't fill every position with veterans so there would be room on the roster for the kids can fight for a job at camp.  Then he brings in Oesterle.

 

 

This is very misleading. Conroy said opportunity for young players but also clarified no one is going to get promised a job. Did Oesterle take away an opportunity for someone? someone couldn't beat him out for the job in pre season?

 

I think the carrot was dangled but that's all they can do is dangle it. Cant force someone to eat it. Not to mention it took them less than 10 games to call him up. Opportunity is not just about pre season, unless your Darryl Sutter.