Goaltending

[jjgallow]

Feaster mentioned yesterday that Ortio and Brossoit were told to go to the Heat and compete for a spot. Apparently they have some games this weekend to play. Healso said the Flames do not intend to carry 3 goalies into the season. That  should mean 1 of the 3 remaining up here will be sent down to the Heat but he did not come right out and say that. (1+1 usually equals 2)

 

Well, that might just make Gillies our top goaltending prospect.   If they don't have intentions of giving Ortio enough games to develop this year, then he's headed down the same path as all other Flames goaltending prospects.   The one nice thing about US College, I suppose, is it saves us from ourselves.

[DirtyDeeds]

Well, that might just make Gillies our top goaltending prospect.   If they don't have intentions of giving Ortio enough games to develop this year, then he's headed down the same path as all other Flames goaltending prospects.   The one nice thing about US College, I suppose, is it saves us from ourselves.

I think Gillies is our best prospect anyway.

[cross16]

Well, that might just make Gillies our top goaltending prospect.   If they don't have intentions of giving Ortio enough games to develop this year, then he's headed down the same path as all other Flames goaltending prospects.   The one nice thing about US College, I suppose, is it saves us from ourselves.

You have to earn your time. If Ortio is to be the starter in Abby he simply needs to play better than everyone else down there. Very simple.

[jjgallow]

You have to earn your time. If Ortio is to be the starter in Abby he simply needs to play better than everyone else down there. Very simple.

 

oh gosh, lol

 

We'll see soon enough.  If your theory holds and they send the worst one of Jmac, Berra, and Ramo down, it might just be okay. 

 

But if your theory held, I'm not so sure they'd have $2.75 million contracts yet.

[conundrumed]

oh gosh, lol

 

We'll see soon enough.  If your theory holds and they send the worst one of Jmac, Berra, and Ramo down, it might just be okay. 

 

But if your theory held, I'm not so sure they'd have $2.75 million contracts yet.

That's good and well, but when you get sent down to the A, you have to show your salt or you won't play. Irving was an example of that.

To protect a salary, that's a lot of people in the org you'll piss off along the way, and you'll get called on it.

Burke is the POHO, I think playing agendas is over.

I liked what I saw of Ortio, but doing it consistently has to happen for him, he has some proving to do, as do all of our 'tenders.

To imply a contract will get in the way of what's best for the team, I'd go with no due to the addition of Burke.

 

Joey MacDonald kind of makes me wanna cheer for him. "This is it Joey, Detroit waived you". I can get behind a guy for circumstance.

If he doesn't play lights out here, I'm thinking NHL career on the outs.

I find it intriguing, can MacDonald step up and be extremely valuable?

As a starter I mean....

[jjgallow]

That's good and well, but when you get sent down to the A, you have to show your salt or you won't play. Irving was an example of that.

 

He's not really getting sent down to the A, he's getting sent up to the A from SM Liiga.   If the Flames aren't serious about developing him here, they should leave him in SM Liiga to let him develop there.   

 

If you clog up your development system with every 27 year old "best goalie not in the NHL", you're not going to get any successful young prospects out of that system.  

 

"It's that simple".

 

To protect a salary, that's a lot of people in the org you'll piss off along the way, and you'll get called on it.

Burke is the POHO, I think playing agendas is over.

I liked what I saw of Ortio, but doing it consistently has to happen for him, he has some proving to do, as do all of our 'tenders.

 

How is he supposed to prove he can play well consistently if he's not played consistently?  

 

The Flames have lost Soo many good prospects to this paradox.

 

I agree that's the proving he needs to do.  If the Flames don't want to give him that opportunity, they should let him go somewhere that he can play consistently.  

 

To imply a contract will get in the way of what's best for the team, I'd go with no due to the addition of Burke.

 

Should be interesting for sure.   I think/hope you're right, but I wouldn't bet on it quite yet.  

 

Joey MacDonald kind of makes me wanna cheer for him. "This is it Joey, Detroit waived you". I can get behind a guy for circumstance.

If he doesn't play lights out here, I'm thinking NHL career on the outs.

I find it intriguing, can MacDonald step up and be extremely valuable?

As a starter I mean....

 

Me too.  JMac rocks.

[Carty]

Looks like Ramo will get the start for the game against the Rangers and MacDonald will be the backup...   Also sounds like Berra will start against the Coyotes...

[conundrumed]

He's not really getting sent down to the A, he's getting sent up to the A from SM Liiga.   If the Flames aren't serious about developing him here, they should leave him in SM Liiga to let him develop there.   

 

If you clog up your development system with every 27 year old "best goalie not in the NHL", you're not going to get any successful young prospects out of that system.  

How is he supposed to prove he can play well consistently if he's not played consistently?  

 

The Flames have lost Soo many good prospects to this paradox.

 

I realize you're right on the "sent up" part.

I think everyone was handing the AHL starter to Irving last year though, and look at what happened.

Ortio gets his starts when he shows the coaches that his fundamentals are sound and his mechanics are sharp.

 

The paradox has many sides. When guys don't make it and come back strong elsewhere, it isn't always a "Flames failed".

I'll give that occasions arise when coaching missed something, but it is on the player too, and I think many times it comes down to a drastic wake up call for some players, where they look in the mirror and see they can't slough off the advice anymore and they're career is in jeopardy. Some rise to the occasion, some don't.

I'm not worried about Ortio vs other goalies, and hope he isn't either. He has NHL-quality tending coaches, and I'm certain they'll do what's right for each goalie based on skillsets they have and skillsets to work on.

They'll go with the guy that gives them the best chance to win, if it's Ortio, good on him.

If it's not, he has to work his butt off and prove he'll be that guy.

All of the diatribe is "no free passes".

[Redslinger]

It may be early but based on the game today it looks like Ramo will begin the season as the starter with McDonald as the backup.

 

I imagine that Berra will probably be the starter in Abbottsford with one of the remaining as his backup and the other either loaned to another AHL team or sent to Alaska.

[conundrumed]

I think we've got quite a bit to worry about, I'm not ready to say Ramo has emerged as the starter.

I see more of a 1A and a 1B scenario emerging. MacDonald has looked more the 1 than Ramo, who I think needs to adjust a bit to how small the ice actually is by comparison, more plays develop faster is the constant change vs the K.

Berra's holding the cards though, good goalie to have in the system compliments of JBo.

And while saying we have quite a bit to worry about, I mean in the here and now. I think our stable is looking better than ever at the position.

[jjgallow]

Jmac is a proven NHL goaltender.  One half-decent NHL preseason game by Ramo is not any where close enough to even think about dethroning Jmac in any way, shape, or form.  10 or 15 games into the NHL season, if one goaltender is clearly dominant over another, we can Start to talk about something like that.

 

I will admit, Ramo played well on Monday.   But not well enough to talk about NHL starter.   Just well enough to put him back into contention as backup.  Up until that game, to be completely honest, Berra had clearly outperformed him.   This is not about Jmac, and it won't be about Jmac until the regular season.  

 

It's not about Ramo and Berra either, because they've already given Ramo the contract.

 

The question is whether Ramo can maintain his position as a backup.  I expect Berra will WOW us when he plays in the preseason, and I expect that will be ignored.  Kind of hard to give Berra a chance when you're already $2.75m invested in the decision.

 

It's becoming clear that they want  Ramo to be the backup, Berra to go to the AHL, and Jmac to be the starter.

 

In the event that Ramo struggles in regular season games, and only in that event, they'll call Berra up.  And I fully expect that to happen.

 

But, in all that chaoss, the Flames' AHL program looks to continue to be a wasteland for prospects.   If I were Ortio, I'd want to go back to Finland.  I guess we'll see.

[s4xon]

It's becoming clear that they want  Ramo to be the backup, Berra to go to the AHL, and Jmac to be the starter.

 

Maybe in your mind, but there has been no indication from Hartley that this is the case.

[ScottMacMahon]

Maybe in your mind, but there has been no indication from Hartley that this is the case.

 

I agree... No clue why he is stating this as a fact. In my opinion it looks like they have Ramo slated to be the starter and that its up to Berra to oust Macdonald from the backup seat.

[geos]

Maybe in your mind, but there has been no indication from Hartley that this is the case.

 

Did I not hear on the FAN this week that Feaster was unimpressed with JMac's conditioning? I can't find a link or anything, maybe I'm mistaken. 

[s4xon]

Did I not hear on the FAN this week that Feaster was unimpressed with JMac's conditioning? I can't find a link or anything, maybe I'm mistaken. 

 

I've heard it too, although I can't find the source.  But there is nothing that suggests Hartley is favoring Mac over Berra or Ramo.  Ramo's played his way into the lead thus far IMO with only 3 goals in 2 games.  All on the PK.

[cross16]

Based on preseason up to the start of the third period, Ramo has outplayed Berra without question and deserves to be the starter contract or not.i don't think Ramo has played fantastic but I think he's outplayed Berra. I think the AHL would be good for Berra I still think he needs some refinement to his game. Too aggressive and he loses his technique and positioning which is what I also saw in development camp.

[jjgallow]

After watching tonight's game I have to eat some of my words.

 

I thought Berra played well, but ultimately Ramo had the best preseason game.   So, my speculation on his contract really becomes a moot point.    And, apparently, it sounds like they are treating Ramo as the starter.

 

I will stick to my prediction, though, that neither Berra or Ramo will have success at the NHL level.  I would have stuck to it even if they were spectacular in the preseason, and neither of them were.

 

Honestly, I'm more concerned with what will become of Ortio and Brossoit.   They represent a much more important part of our future (potentially).   I'm kind of wondering if....potentially both of them should go back.  To Finland, and the WHL, respectively.

 

I don't see much playing time in the AHL this year for either of them, with Berra there.

 

Lots of talk of trades these days too.   The numbers still don't add up, I guess we'll see shortly.

[Redslinger]

^ Yeah, I don't honestly believe that either Ramo or Berra are the long term solutions in Calgary.  At this point, I think the best goaltender in the Flames stable is Gillies.  I'm guessing that Ramo, Berra, whoever will hold the fort for two years and then we'll see Gillies come in, either as a starter or backup for one year before becoming a starter.

 

I have high hopes for Gillies.

[cross16]

I too think Gilles is their best goalie prospects and in fact would argue he is one of the flames top prospects in the organization regardless off postion

I don't think either Ramo or Berra will become stars by any means but I dont think its fair to write them off here. I've seen flashes from both that are good but I don't think your looking at the next flames star goalie by any means

[conundrumed]

We only have to look north to see what goaltending does for a rebuild...

I kinda wish management would get a little more desperate about it.

While I agree about Gillies, it's not the position I want to see us slide at and pray a saviour is coming.

Watching Lindback, Bishop and Bernier go elsewhere makes me scratch my head.

I hate to mention it, but Bobrovsky near single-handedly put Columbus on the map. Who saw that coming?

 

The move for Ramo, the subtler move for Berra, I don't know, it's all a little off the charts for me. Joey MacDonald picked up on waivers from Detroit for a "backup"... I don't know....it's weak.

The position is dire, no foresight to Kipper leaving, outside of Feaster's love-in for Ramo.

I hope the other guys I mentioned aren't good this year, because we were definitely in the market imho.

[s4xon]

We only have to look north to see what goaltending does for a rebuild...

I kinda wish management would get a little more desperate about it.

While I agree about Gillies, it's not the position I want to see us slide at and pray a saviour is coming.

Watching Lindback, Bishop and Bernier go elsewhere makes me scratch my head.

I hate to mention it, but Bobrovsky near single-handedly put Columbus on the map. Who saw that coming?

 

The move for Ramo, the subtler move for Berra, I don't know, it's all a little off the charts for me. Joey MacDonald picked up on waivers from Detroit for a "backup"... I don't know....it's weak.

The position is dire, no foresight to Kipper leaving, outside of Feaster's love-in for Ramo.

I hope the other guys I mentioned aren't good this year, because we were definitely in the market imho.

 

Hoping the current 'tenders the Flames have at this moment not having good years is a little shallow.  Having an opinion that the Flames are in the market for a goalie isn't a reason to wish a bad season on any of the 3 backstoppers.  Promising goalie prospects in the system or not. 

 

So what if Ramo ends up playing lights out, and the development path he took in the KHL was just the ticket he needed?  What then?  We trade him because Feaster has some faith in the kid?  Or because he's not your favorite?

 

[conundrumed]

Hoping the current 'tenders the Flames have at this moment not having good years is a little shallow.  Having an opinion that the Flames are in the market for a goalie isn't a reason to wish a bad season on any of the 3 backstoppers.  Promising goalie prospects in the system or not. 

 

So what if Ramo ends up playing lights out, and the development path he took in the KHL was just the ticket he needed?  What then?  We trade him because Feaster has some faith in the kid?  Or because he's not your favorite?

 

What? I meant the goalies the Flames didn't get...hence "the other guys"...

Now that you're out of context, ummm...

And I don't really hope for them to have bad years either...just in case.

[s4xon]

What? I meant the goalies the Flames didn't get...hence "the other guys"...

Now that you're out of context, ummm...

And I don't really hope for them to have bad years either...just in case.

 

Haha, just checking. 

 

But in reality, hoping any player has a bad year, other than Kessel, or all the Canucks, isn't nice.

[jjgallow]

I would also put Gillies as one of the entire organization's top prospects.

 

But, in my own mind, I see Ortio an Gillies as neck and neck, with Ortio out to slight lead.   I don't have a solid arguement to put Ortio out to a slight lead, that's just how I see it.   But I do think there is a solid arguement that Ortio is discounted in this organization right now.

 

I know some people were possibly dissapointed with Brossoit in training camp.  I was actually very impressed, and now consider him a legitimate goaltending prospect.   He would have to have an extremely solid year, or two years, before putting him in the category of Gillies or Ortio.   But, prior to the preseason, I really didn't see what the fuss was about.   A pylon could have done well backstopping the team he was on.  In the Flames training camp, however, he looked like, in my mind...a legitimate goaltending prospect his age should look like.

 

I can understand why some people put Gillies well ahead of Ortio.   But rather than argue that point, I think it's very fair to say that Anything can happen with young goaltenders and the more you develop properly, the better your odds.  So you don't have to be an Ortio fanatic to want him to get proper development.

 

From that perspective, the numbers game is unfortunate in that it hurts the development of our most legitimate prospects (at least the way it looks now).   Yes, we can ride it all on Gillies.   But we've done that before.  With Irving, with Trevor Kidd, with many others.  No matter how good Gillies looks, if there's one thing we've learned by now is that it doesn't hurt to have more than one trick up your sleave.

[geos]

I thought Berra looked pretty shakey last night. In fact, he reminded me a lot of Karlsson, in both style and faults. He's a big guy, but isn't very fast and seems prone to making stupid mistakes.

 

The one positive of Berra is it seems like the guy can play the puck at a high level. I like that in a goalie.