Goaltending

[Zirakzigil]

Fan 960 mentioned that Hartleys favorite of the 3 is Berra. He knows him and his abilities from the Swiss league.

 

That contradicts all the talk about the Hartley playing favorites??

 

Not really. Berra was sent down to the AHL to maximize his playing time. Even if he split NHL games 50/50 he still wouldnt play more then being in the AHL. If they actually allow Ramo to start playing some games Im still betting that him and Berra will be the Flames goalies that finish this year. 

[Young_Guns_V2]

I just think there needs to be more balance. We are in a rebuild and there is suppose to be some development. You cant just let Ramo rot on the bench. We cant even judge Ramo properly on 1 game.  I am sure he will get his chance on a back to back game I guess (after sitting cold for so long). I dont want to see a loss just to see another goalie in net but I think it will take getting lit up for Joey to lose his chair.

[kehatch]

?

 

So, now what...are condelences in order?  Another solid win, with steady goaltending.

 

I know this wasn't the 10-0 loss you were hoping for phoenix, but at least he let in a couple?

 

trying to look on the bright side...

 

The Flames are one of the top offensive teams in the NHL right now.  That is why they are getting points.  Last night wasn't any different.  I thought the Flames won in spite of goal tending.  Mac struggled handling the puck along the boards all night.  One ended up in our net.  He gave up some really bad rebounds.  The goals he did let in were stoppable.  

 

I am not saying he was horrible.  But he wasn't good either.  He has had one really good game.  That was against Montreal.  The other three games weren't very good.  It shows up in his stats.  

 

I understand the Flames don't want to mess with the success they are having.  But the Flames played well in front of Ramo as well.  If they are so fragile that they will only play well in front of MacDonald than we are in real trouble anyway.  It is in the best interest of the franchise (present and future) to see what they have in Ramo.  

[bosn111]

Ok, first off let's back off the whole emotional, and premonition based, oh my god the sky is and / or will be falling. Also looking at the aspects of goaltending, we the fans see games, the coaching staff sees games and practices. How can we as fans judge coaching decisions which take practices into account as well as games? 

 

Is JMac our goalie of the future? no.  Is Ramo our goalie of the future? Maybe but that is doubtful. At 27 years of age he will be lucky to see a decade in the NHL. With Berra a year younger and very similar in skill and style to Ramo knocking on the door, and Broissoit, Ortio and Gilles 22 or younger making cases for being the future goalies of the franchise, Ramo will have to be exceptional to stay with the Flames for half of his potential career in the NHL.

 

We lost out on goalies because we did not play them in the NHL? Please name them here and which team they currently play for. Irving is in Europe now. Lalande? Keetley? Spratt? McElhinney (Career Backup / call up at best). Please show me where we ruined a goalie because we did not play them. Irving LOST his spot on the Heat let alone the Flames. He is really the only one we can really say that we MIGHT have ruined by not playing.

 

If goalies do not develop in the AHL then why do so many goalies come out of the AHL? Do you expect them to develop in juniors and then jump right into the NHL? If so, and making them play in the NHL, then Berra, Brossoit and Ortio are all being ruined and will never play in the NHL.

 

While 5 games is a small sample to use in talking about and ranking NHL stats, that is what we are all doing on both sides of this argument. Ramo has not played much and we don't know for sure why not, but the coaching staff obviously has their reasons. JMac has started most of the games in the first 5 but that does not mean he will be the main starter all season. Perhaps Ramo just needs a couple more weeks of practices to be more comfortable with the angles of the smaller ice surface and then he will be the starter. You cannot call him the Flames starting goalie until he actually does have that position. As of right now, he obviously hasn't earned it.

 

This arguing back and forth about goalies who should or should not be in when the Flames have earned at least a point in each of their first 5 games is ridiculous. The coaches are hired to win games and do what they can to try and get the team to play it's best. Does that mean throw a goalie into the deep end and see if he swims? No, it means play the people who you think will win you the game. Sorry if you disagree, but that is professional hockey.

[jjgallow]

  It is in the best interest of the franchise (present and future) to see what they have in Ramo.  

 

I actually agree with this, 100%.

 

I don't agree that we should want Jmac to get pasted 10-0.

 

I don't agree that Ramo is better than Jmac.

 

I don't agree that Ramo is an NHL goaltender.

 

I don't agree that we are in a RUSH to see what Ramo offers, or that we need to "develop" him at his age.

 

But I think that any Flame's goalie, at his development stage, should get 10 NHL games minimum, to see what they're made of.

 

It just may not be as soon, or as urgent, as some on here want it to be.

 

When it happens, I'm not going to cheer against Ramo.  Or want him to get pasted 10-0.

 

But I wouldn't bet against it either.

[jjgallow]

 Mac struggled handling the puck along the boards all night.  One ended up in our net.  He gave up some really bad rebounds.  The goals he did let in were stoppable.  

 

We've watched Kipper let in 100's of these goals, and never spoken of it.  Even before he dropped off.  The same can be said of Ramo in his NHL game.  And, his first pre-game in Calgary was, in fact, a horror-show.  An absolute horror show.   Did he get better?  Yes.   Did he get brilliant?  No.  Did he scare the coaches?  I think so.   We're talking about a guy with multiple youtube videos of lettings goals in from one end of the rink to the other.  And he showed us why, as soon as he got here.

 

Jmac also made some nice saves.   

 

He's 3-0-1, his save percentage is the same as last year, and his save percentage is the same as Ramo's.  He hardly got any playing time in the preseason.  Struggling with the puck along the boards is common among goalies that haven't played much with their defense/wingers.

 

I'm not saying he's our saviour.   I'm just saying that we're experiencing a small miracle as a team right now, and the grass is very likely not greener on the other side.  Should we play Ramo?  yes.  Should we "develop" him if he sucks?  no.  Ramo Has been given a chance, and he failed to take advantage of his first one.  Jmac is already proven after many years, and the coaches made the right decision in terms of getting wins, by going with him.

 

Ramo Will get more chances.  but not 50 chances.   I think, at his age, 10 chances would be fair.  If he pulls it together, he may have an NHL career ahead of him.  Not personally betting on it.

[conundrumed]

The Flames are one of the top offensive teams in the NHL right now.  That is why they are getting points.  Last night wasn't any different.  I thought the Flames won in spite of goal tending.  Mac struggled handling the puck along the boards all night.  One ended up in our net.  He gave up some really bad rebounds.  The goals he did let in were stoppable.  

 

I am not saying he was horrible.  But he wasn't good either.  He has had one really good game.  That was against Montreal.  The other three games weren't very good.  It shows up in his stats.  

 

I understand the Flames don't want to mess with the success they are having.  But the Flames played well in front of Ramo as well.  If they are so fragile that they will only play well in front of MacDonald than we are in real trouble anyway.  It is in the best interest of the franchise (present and future) to see what they have in Ramo.  

 

there's plenty of time for that kehatch. There is little point in it being a #1 priority to throw Ramo to the wolves. You've gotta be patient man, Ramo will get his chance. For now, while we are having success, it's beneficial to let Ramo watch the pace for a few games and work things out in practice with the goalie coaches.

One thing that has always killed us in the past is zero patience. JMac is buying Ramo an extended training camp to adjust to a new league, hopefully it'll be a good thing.

You're creating a controversy that shouldn't exist, it's a very long year, be patient!!

The goalie coaching reports to Hartley and we have to give them some latitude, Ramo will get his chance, guaranteed.

[phoenix66]

Ok, first off let's back off the whole emotional, and premonition based, oh my god the sky is and / or will be falling. Also looking at the aspects of goaltending, we the fans see games, the coaching staff sees games and practices. How can we as fans judge coaching decisions which take practices into account as well as games? 

 

Is JMac our goalie of the future? no.  Is Ramo our goalie of the future? Maybe but that is doubtful. At 27 years of age he will be lucky to see a decade in the NHL. With Berra a year younger and very similar in skill and style to Ramo knocking on the door, and Broissoit, Ortio and Gilles 22 or younger making cases for being the future goalies of the franchise, Ramo will have to be exceptional to stay with the Flames for half of his potential career in the NHL.

 

We lost out on goalies because we did not play them in the NHL? Please name them here and which team they currently play for. Irving is in Europe now. Lalande? Keetley? Spratt? McElhinney (Career Backup / call up at best). Please show me where we ruined a goalie because we did not play them. Irving LOST his spot on the Heat let alone the Flames. He is really the only one we can really say that we MIGHT have ruined by not playing.

 

If goalies do not develop in the AHL then why do so many goalies come out of the AHL? Do you expect them to develop in juniors and then jump right into the NHL? If so, and making them play in the NHL, then Berra, Brossoit and Ortio are all being ruined and will never play in the NHL.

 

While 5 games is a small sample to use in talking about and ranking NHL stats, that is what we are all doing on both sides of this argument. Ramo has not played much and we don't know for sure why not, but the coaching staff obviously has their reasons. JMac has started most of the games in the first 5 but that does not mean he will be the main starter all season. Perhaps Ramo just needs a couple more weeks of practices to be more comfortable with the angles of the smaller ice surface and then he will be the starter. You cannot call him the Flames starting goalie until he actually does have that position. As of right now, he obviously hasn't earned it.

 

This arguing back and forth about goalies who should or should not be in when the Flames have earned at least a point in each of their first 5 games is ridiculous. The coaches are hired to win games and do what they can to try and get the team to play it's best. Does that mean throw a goalie into the deep end and see if he swims? No, it means play the people who you think will win you the game. Sorry if you disagree, but that is professional hockey.

Ok...lots og great points in here. Im at the point im going to assume the coaches have a plan, that there is something we dont see or have been told why ramo has been glued to the bench..but the big thing worrying me now, is we have a 5 game death valley road trip starting and youve already started jmac 4 straight games, I dont see a happy ending with him going 9 (I hope I am and want to be wrong) so to not have let ramo have a couple of the easy ones made no sense.

I misworded myself, goalies do develop in the AHL, but to expect them to turn a stellar AHL career into an nhl one takes transition..and you dont get it playing once every 10 games...or 4 a year like kippers backups used to get..or less than 10 per year

Confidence in a goalie is huge..some never get it back, and getting a one game pressure test and then sitting ruins it. If they are stellar in the minors, and lousy in the nhl, 90% of the time its a confidence issue

To answer a question, goalies we have likely ruined because they never got a fair shot at the nhl level:leland irving, henrik karlsson,mcilhenny

Goalies who became stars elsewhere after being disposed of by us:

Giguere, Roloson, Sabourin(star might be pushing it..but he definitely played well)

Ones we just ruined, period...Trevor Kidd. But thats a whole other story

[jjgallow]

woah.....Berra was just moments away from getting a shutout tonight...

 

I was about to post on here that he's gonna get the shutout callup....and they just scored on him.

 

My guess is they'll play Ramo soon enough.   

[C_worthy]

Berra was the first star regardless

[phoenix66]

We've watched Kipper let in 100's of these goals, and never spoken of it.  Even before he dropped off.  The same can be said of Ramo in his NHL game.  And, his first pre-game in Calgary was, in fact, a horror-show.  An absolute horror show.   Did he get better?  Yes.   Did he get brilliant?  No.  Did he scare the coaches?  I think so.   We're talking about a guy with multiple youtube videos of lettings goals in from one end of the rink to the other.  And he showed us why, as soon as he got here.

 

Jmac also made some nice saves.   

 

He's 3-0-1, his save percentage is the same as last year, and his save percentage is the same as Ramo's.  He hardly got any playing time in the preseason.  Struggling with the puck along the boards is common among goalies that haven't played much with their defense/wingers.

 

I'm not saying he's our saviour.   I'm just saying that we're experiencing a small miracle as a team right now, and the grass is very likely not greener on the other side.  Should we play Ramo?  yes.  Should we "develop" him if he sucks?  no.  Ramo Has been given a chance, and he failed to take advantage of his first one.  Jmac is already proven after many years, and the coaches made the right decision in terms of getting wins, by going with him.

 

Ramo Will get more chances.  but not 50 chances.   I think, at his age, 10 chances would be fair.  If he pulls it together, he may have an NHL career ahead of him.  Not personally betting on it.

Ok so I feel a little better since I read this.. http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=685949 but I still say ramo is being iced.

Ill concede and withdraw my 10-0 comment, I want the flames to win, so instead ill be hoping for 7-6 victories instead:)

Gotta know though, why do you have such a hate on for this guy?

You say you dont agree hes an nhl caliber goaltender..but there is no sample size to make that determination?

He was average on a bad tampa team 4 years ago, that proves nothing as he has developed since then. Kipper was brutal in san jose and look how that turned out?

Youve seen youtube videos where he whiffs on ice length shots,.. theres 8nes where Patrick Roy does the same thing..so I guess he wasnt nhl caliber? Every goalie has a blooper reel

A bad preseason game means about as much as a good one, and in this case probably less as it was his first nhl game in years. New team, new opponints..etc..if he had stunk out all his games then id be worried..every article and every sports news show I saw said he stood on his head in the rangers game

He played great against Washington and got us a point. But, if youre goung to use the argument that he was less than average in that game and got himself benched, then jmac was worse against vancouver, so ramo should have gone right back in

Like I say, just curious why he can do nothing right?

[jjgallow]

I want the flames to win, so instead ill be hoping for 7-6 victories instead:)

 

Lol

 

 

Gotta know though, why do you have such a hate on for this guy?

 

 

I've nothing against Ramo.   I'll admit that I never agreed with the original trade that brought him here, but that wasn't specifically about him.   But that's all in the past.   I am concerned that we've clogged our development system with 27 year olds.  

 

That being said, Ramo should get his chance at some point, and I will be cheering for him when he does.  I think it'll be soon.

[travel_dude]

Lol

 

 

 

I've nothing against Ramo.   I'll admit that I never agreed with the original trade that brought him here, but that wasn't specifically about him.   But that's all in the past.   I am concerned that we've clogged our development system with 27 year olds.  

 

That being said, Ramo should get his chance at some point, and I will be cheering for him when he does.  I think it'll be soon.

Why does it matter that 2 of our goalies are over 25?  Aren't goalies typically late bloomers?  Let's face it, Ortio is at least a year away from the NHL, assuming he even makes it.  Brossoit is more like 2 years away.  Gillies is at least 1 year away from turning pro, and could need a year or two in the A. 

 

Whether Berra or Ramo are our short-term solution, or merely a stop-gap like JoeMac, we really aren't clogged with NHL ready goalies.  We have several options now and for the future.  Much like prospects, one or more could become stars.  Mane than 2?  Trade assets.

[Redslinger]

MacDonald has demonstrated why he's been an NHL backup and never been a starter.  He'll play solid one game, exceptionally another game and then really bad the game after.  He has no consistency to his performance and, as a result, can't be counted on to carry the mail for this team.

 

He was fortunate that New Jersey is a really bad team because he gave up some horrific rebounds including one that resulted in a goal.

 

I hope Ramo gets the next start.  I also hope that they play whoever the hot goalie is.  Based on the last start it isn't MacDonald at the moment.  I don't blame Hartley for starting MacDonald for the last 4 games though.  The team is playing well and getting points.  You don't necessarily want to mess with what's working.  But now that they have a long break between games it's safer to switch things up.

[jjgallow]

Why does it matter that 2 of our goalies are over 25?  Aren't goalies typically late bloomers?  Let's face it, Ortio is at least a year away from the NHL, assuming he even makes it.  Brossoit is more like 2 years away.  Gillies is at least 1 year away from turning pro, and could need a year or two in the A. 

 

Brossoit is really struggling in the ECHL right now.  He convinced me in training camp that he is a legimate prospect, but by far on the bottom of our list, even adjusting for age.  He is far more than 2 years away.   4-5, imho, if things go well for him.

 

Ortio is an absolute minimum of 2 years out, if he gets playing time.  He hasn't played yet this year, due to the number of goalies we have this in the system.  If he doesn't get a decent amount of games in, then imho, it's a massive setback to his development.   I would go as far as to say it's the difference between being a potential NHL starter, to never making the NHL.  Sad.

 

Gillies could in fact be our saviour.    But he is also probably 2 years out.   And, with the way we have spread our development resources out, it is clear that the Flames are banking on Gillies, and Gillies alone.  Or just plain not thinking past this year.  He's great, but it makes me nervous that he's the only impressive prospect we're properly developing right now.

 

Whether Berra or Ramo are our short-term solution, or merely a stop-gap like JoeMac, we really aren't clogged with NHL ready goalies.  We have several options now and for the future.  Much like prospects, one or more could become stars.  Mane than 2?  Trade assets.

 

We have 3, if you go by what the Flames are saying.  So, I agree with you, lol.  NONE of them are EVER going to be stars in the NHL.   We only have one prospect with that potential:  Gillies.  Or two, if we chose to develop Ortio.

[Lucid_Flame91]

Gillies could in fact be our saviour.    But he is also probably 2 years out.   And, with the way we have spread our development resources out, it is clear that the Flames are banking on Gillies, and Gillies alone.  Or just plain not thinking past this year.  He's great, but it makes me nervous that he's the only impressive prospect we're properly developing right now.

 

Well our saviour is off too a good start lol. He seems to be building a trophy case with all his awards.

 

Calgary Flames prospect Jon Gillies has been named one of Hockey East's Co-Defensive Players of the Week.

 

The 19-year-old sophomore backedstopped Providence College to two wins over Minnesota State this weekend, stopping 63 of 64 shots. He recorded his first shutout of the season on Saturday, making 38 saves in the 3-0 Friars victory. It was his sixth shutout in Providence College silks, which now places him in second on the Friars career shutouts list. He is one behind all-time leader Tyler Sims.

 

Gillies, the Flames third round pick in 2012, has a 0.50 goals-against-average and a .984 save percentage.

This is Gillies' fifth Co-Defensive Player of the Week award and, combined with his five Rookie of the Week honors, his 10th weekly Hockey East award.

 

The Friars were named Hockey East's Team of the Week. Gillies fellow Flames prospects Mark Jankowski andJohn Gilmour played big roles in the two wins over Minnesota State as Jankowski scored twice on Friday night and Gilmour, who currently leads the team in scoring, registered three points (two goals, one assist) on Friday night.

[DirtyDeeds]

I'm chuckling at some people around here. They already seem know that the Flames are incapable of developing the goalies in the system, so won't ever make the team. Or they want their flavor of the week to get starts when the coaches have already said the better of the bunch will get the starts.

 

Too much hookinging and complaining going on around here if you ask me, considering we haven't recorded a regulation loss yet.

 

I said it last year and stand by my opinion that this is our goaltender of the future:

 

Everyone else in the meantime has to figure out how to get past the "replacing Kipper" tag.

[phoenix66]

This will likely stir things up, but id be leery of banking our hopes and future on any north American trained goalie.admittedly I havent watched him play, and he possibly could be that good, north America has slipped badly in developing goaltenders. Ever since every little kid wanted to be Patrick Roy and learned the butterfly, europe has become the source for goalies. Outside of Ryan miller, no north american has consistently carried a team. Before you argue tim thomas, hes a freak..who did his learning playing in europe.

UntIl we get back to goalies using reflexes and being athletic as opposed to just using position and butterfly.theyre going to keep getting owned in the nhl

[CastleMania]

This will likely stir things up, but id be leery of banking our hopes and future on any north American trained goalie.admittedly I havent watched him play, and he possibly could be that good, north America has slipped badly in developing goaltenders. Ever since every little kid wanted to be Patrick Roy and learned the butterfly, europe has become the source for goalies. Outside of Ryan miller, no north american has consistently carried a team. Before you argue tim thomas, hes a freak..who did his learning playing in europe.

UntIl we get back to goalies using reflexes and being athletic as opposed to just using position and butterfly.theyre going to keep getting owned in the nhl

Umm, Stanley Cup champion goalies since the lockout:

 

2013 Crawford - Canada

2012 Quick - USA

2011 Thomas - USA

2010 Niemi - Finland

2009 Fleury - Canada

2008 Osgood - Canada

2007 Giguere - Canada

2006 Ward - Canada

 

I think your point is moot.

[phoenix66]

Umm, Stanley Cup champion goalies since the lockout:

 

2013 Crawford - Canada

2012 Quick - USA

2011 Thomas - USA

2010 Niemi - Finland

2009 Fleury - Canada

2008 Osgood - Canada

2007 Giguere - Canada

2006 Ward - Canada

 

I think your point is moot.

I said consistently..none of these goalies have been dominant outside of maybe one good playoff run, and a couple were a major result of the team in front of them.

2013 Crawford - Canada it was said many times during the playoffs that he was an average goaltender on a great team. As the stanley cup goaltender they invited him to olympic camp but if he makes it at all, it will be as #3.

2012 Quick - USA he played amazing that year, but last year wasnt as much so, the book is out on him,shoot it high through traffic. His success was due mostly by spreading kipper-like across the ice

2011 Thomas - USA -I already discounted thomas as being a european experienced style goalie

2010 Niemi - Finland- again, not a dominant goalie, won because of the team in front of him. Hasnt taken san Jose anywhere, but if I was picking just one, a better goaltender than Crawford

2009 Fleury - Canada an extremely good goalie, but highly inconsistent.not the major reason they won the cup, but definitely the major reason they havent been back.

2008 Osgood - Canada again, a very average goaltender. Detroit (aside from the hasek years when you may as well have handed them the cup in training camp) went the opposite of most teams and built from the front, back..went with very average goaltending behind an incredible forward line and defense. If you need proof of this, look at his time in st louis. Couldn't stop a beach ball..went back to detroit, suddenly he was good again?

2007 Giguere - Canada one good playoff run. Missed the playoffs the following year, when they got back in, against calgary..was benched in favor of bryzgalov when they were down and facing elimination

2006 Ward - Canada, granted, the only good thing about this team for a number of years, but not even in the discussion for team Canada?

When I say consistent, I mean the ones who instantly make their teams better just by being on the ice. The ones where they win games their teams have no right winning..Eg : kipper, lundqvist, Bobrovsky, varlamov, hasek, nabakov,khabibulin (pre edmonton), bryzgalov (pre philly)

Right now, about the only one who seems to do that whos not european is craig Anderson

[travel_dude]

An interesting twist today; Ortio assigned to Alaska and Brossoit recalled to the Heat.  I guess its the only way Ortio will get consistent starts.  Brossoit could actually play a game soon.  Practices and the occasional start might show what he has to offer.

 

Ortio, on the other hand, needs to play.  Whether that is the Heat, the Aces, or the Flames, he needs to play on NA ice again to get his game on track.  I hope this isn't a bad thing for him, as he did show some promise in the pre-season.

[phoenix66]

My bad..for giguere I was referencing the 02/03 ducks run where they lost.

When they won in 07, yes he was very good, ill add him to the list of consistents, but that was an amazing team from front to back. As much as I detest the guy, the pronger factor was in play there

An interesting twist today; Ortio assigned to Alaska and Brossoit recalled to the Heat.  I guess its the only way Ortio will get consistent starts.  Brossoit could actually play a game soon.  Practices and the occasional start might show what he has to offer.

 

Ortio, on the other hand, needs to play.  Whether that is the Heat, the Aces, or the Flames, he needs to play on NA ice again to get his game on track.  I hope this isn't a bad thing for him, as he did show some promise in the pre-season.

I did see that. I believe youll see that switch a few times this year to ensure they both get plenty of games. Great move in my opinion

[cross16]

Cue the JJ meltdown.....

Probably makes sense. Heat don't play till Friday and Alaska plays tomorrow and Wednesday I think and Ortio needs a game before getting put in cold on the weekend so that would appear to be the plan.

[CastleMania]

I said consistently..none of these goalies have been dominant outside of maybe one good playoff run, and a couple were a major result of the team in front of them.

2013 Crawford - Canada it was said many times during the playoffs that he was an average goaltender on a great team. As the stanley cup goaltender they invited him to olympic camp but if he makes it at all, it will be as #3.

2012 Quick - USA he played amazing that year, but last year wasnt as much so, the book is out on him,shoot it high through traffic. His success was due mostly by spreading kipper-like across the ice

2011 Thomas - USA -I already discounted thomas as being a european experienced style goalie

2010 Niemi - Finland- again, not a dominant goalie, won because of the team in front of him. Hasnt taken san Jose anywhere, but if I was picking just one, a better goaltender than Crawford

2009 Fleury - Canada an extremely good goalie, but highly inconsistent.not the major reason they won the cup, but definitely the major reason they havent been back.

2008 Osgood - Canada again, a very average goaltender. Detroit (aside from the hasek years when you may as well have handed them the cup in training camp) went the opposite of most teams and built from the front, back..went with very average goaltending behind an incredible forward line and defense. If you need proof of this, look at his time in st louis. Couldn't stop a beach ball..went back to detroit, suddenly he was good again?

2007 Giguere - Canada one good playoff run. Missed the playoffs the following year, when they got back in, against calgary..was benched in favor of bryzgalov when they were down and facing elimination

2006 Ward - Canada, granted, the only good thing about this team for a number of years, but not even in the discussion for team Canada?

When I say consistent, I mean the ones who instantly make their teams better just by being on the ice. The ones where they win games their teams have no right winning..Eg : kipper, lundqvist, Bobrovsky, varlamov, hasek, nabakov,khabibulin (pre edmonton), bryzgalov (pre philly)

Right now, about the only one who seems to do that whos not european is craig Anderson

It's funny that in a league where success is determined by Stanley Cups, you discount goaltenders who have won and add value to those goaltenders who you claim are "athletic."

 

You know why Stanley Cup teams tend to have goalies that are positional instead of athletic? It's simple, positional goalies are consistent from night to night. The team in front of them knows what they are going to get and can adjust their play to suit the needs of the goalies. Let's take it one step further. Here's the losing (second place) team in those seasons goaltenders:

 

2013 Rask - Finland

2012 Brodeur - Canada

2011 Luongo- Canada

2010  Leighton - Canada

2009 Osgood - Canada

2008 Fleury - Canada

2007 Emery - Canada

2006 Roloson - Canada

 

So what is that? 14 goalies from North America who have started in a Stanley Cup finals since the lockout in comparison to 2 (I may have missed a goalie). It's nice that you make all these value statements about North American goalies, but it looks to me that when it comes to winning cups--the only thing that matters in my books--North American goalies are rather apt for the task.

[jjgallow]

Cue the JJ meltdown.....

Probably makes sense. Heat don't play till Friday and Alaska plays tomorrow and Wednesday I think and Ortio needs a game before getting put in cold on the weekend so that would appear to be the plan.

 

 

 

lol

 

I've already melted down a long time ago over this...I actually agree with you.  I don't care if it's pee wee hockey, if Ortio is getting minutes it's a good thing.   I don't believe for a second that this is because Laurent has moved up on their depth chart:  He was struggling in the ECHL.   

 

Ortio should dominate.  Perhaps after a brief loss of confidence, of course.   I guess he should have stayed in SM Liiga.  But this is far, far better than just watching the Heat play (we can all do that too).

 

I consider Ortio's development now stagnated, but not destroyed.   And I doubt the stint will be more than 15 games.   Big changes are still coming.