Goaltending

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

He didn't elaborate, but the problem we saw a lot was the timeliness of the goal he let it.

There are probably at least 5 examples of a goal that pushes us to OT.

No way to say what a save does overall.

Without looking it up there are some things that may have happened.

Instead of the win streak ending at 2 or 3 with a loss, winning the next one then losing....

We have confidence after winning 4, so 5 is a win too.

well, it didn't happen. What if we drafted so and so instead of whoever doesn't make it? It's a stat, but it can't say whether things would be different, because even in games where goalies played good we still only scored 1 or 2 goals and still lost. 

[jjgallow]

On 4/13/2023 at 7:55 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I think trading Vladar is low risk.

Not that he won't become the next Georgiev, since that's possible.

But, that Wolf fails in his first season as a backup.

He struggles, you go back to Markstrom and get a backup to cover.

 

Maybe not the best strategy, but we need to do something.

Wolf seems like he can't improve much with AHL competition.

 

If you can trade Vladar, I think you do it.   Same with Markstrom obviously but that's another story 

 

I agree, it's low risk.  You never know, I mean Kipper didn't even get good until 26.   But I don't think you can manage assets on the off-chance they turn into Kipper at 26.  I don't think Calgary is an easy place for a goalie to be and I think Vladar has a bit of an NHL future ahead of him.

 

But, if other teams also recognize that and are willing to pay accordingly....   

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

If you can trade Vladar, I think you do it.   Same with Markstrom obviously but that's another story 

 

I agree, it's low risk.  You never know, I mean Kipper didn't even get good until 26.   But I don't think you can manage assets on the off-chance they turn into Kipper at 26.  I don't think Calgary is an easy place for a goalie to be and I think Vladar has a bit of an NHL future ahead of him.

 

But, if other teams also recognize that and are willing to pay accordingly....   

 

I'm up and down on this thought.  Some days I think we would be nuts to trade Vkladar while he is just starting out.  The problem is that if we traded Markstrom and Vladar couldn't handle 40+ starts, we would be worse off.  The same is true if trading Vladar and Markstrom sucks again.

 

I think Vladar has the ability to bounce back with this team.  He was great before coaching got their hands on him.  What I mean is that he started off good and didn't really tail off as much as not get the starts when he needed them.  Maybe they adjusted his style a bit.  In a breakaway situation, Vladar was the guy I would think stops the puck.  We could have 5-8 years out of him.  Markstrom may only last 3.

[DirtyDeeds]

I don't hear anyone questioning our goalie coaching.

 

This present bunch of goalie coaches ... most have a long history of ineptness of being able to help any of our goalies.

 

What they get a pass because we have one top goaltending prospect in the system?

 

 

[robrob74]

Just now, DirtyDeeds said:

I don't hear anyone questioning our goalie coaching.

 

This present bunch of goalie coaches ... most have a long history of ineptness of being able to help any of our goalies.

 

What they get a pass because we have one top goaltending prospect in the system?

 

 

I didnt like Sigalet as a GC when he was. He seems like he can spot talent more than he can develop it. 
 

the others were new last year, but i feel that they got the pass because Markstrom did so well last year. Vladar was ok too. 
 

but like you say, they don't get a pass when it goes bad as they were probably touted when it went so well. 

[jjgallow]

11 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm up and down on this thought.  Some days I think we would be nuts to trade Vkladar while he is just starting out.  The problem is that if we traded Markstrom and Vladar couldn't handle 40+ starts, we would be worse off.  The same is true if trading Vladar and Markstrom sucks again.

 

I think Vladar has the ability to bounce back with this team.  He was great before coaching got their hands on him.  What I mean is that he started off good and didn't really tail off as much as not get the starts when he needed them.  Maybe they adjusted his style a bit.  In a breakaway situation, Vladar was the guy I would think stops the puck.  We could have 5-8 years out of him.  Markstrom may only last 3.

 

Letting Markstrom go was always the better move, even before this season.   When he's playing well it's unpopular to do, when he's not playing well it's impossible to do so.   If they get a chance to let him go it would be better.   But very hard.

 

There is that real risk trading Vladar could come back to bite us.   but that's also the only reason he's still tradeable.   Do that trade 10 times, 9 times it ends up being a good trade.

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I don't hear anyone questioning our goalie coaching.

 

This present bunch of goalie coaches ... most have a long history of ineptness of being able to help any of our goalies.

 

What they get a pass because we have one top goaltending prospect in the system?

 

 

A lot was written about how awesome they are last year. Notsomuch this year. Seems like some mechanics issues, not getting square, not playing at the top of the crease. Then there's the issue of dmen that aren't very good harassing guys in front of the net doesn't help. 

They have more than enough evidence on tape I would think, but goals keep coming the same way or no one is tieing up sticks on rebounds. Kinda why I was hoping we'd trade for Maatta because it feels like how to defend your net without taking penalties is a lost art. Or take the penalty vs a certain goal.

But Detroit extended him prior to tdl so he became off the table. I think puck-moving dmen have become more value than actual defencemen so this is where it ends up maybe. Fans tend to cheer the points and overlook D atrocity.

Case in point, Erik Karlsson and his ungodly number of even strength goals against. Doesn't seem to matter. He could win the Norris by being the anti-christ of defencemen. Not even a remote possibility he should win it.

[travel_dude]

19 hours ago, travel_dude said:

He was great before coaching got their hands on him.  What I mean is that he started off good and didn't really tail off as much as not get the starts when he needed them.  Maybe they adjusted his style a bit. 

 

9 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I don't hear anyone questioning our goalie coaching.

 

This present bunch of goalie coaches ... most have a long history of ineptness of being able to help any of our goalies.

 

What they get a pass because we have one top goaltending prospect in the system?

 

 

 

I alluded to it being a possible reason to falling off.  I don't know that they would have as big an impact on the vet as much as the rookie.  There are some inescapable facts.  Markstrom played well in the Dallas series, then fell apart in the EDM one.  Markstrom last season was way better than this season.  

 

This season there was a lot of "unstoppable goals" but many times at least one "wish he had it back".  I hate to say it, but the unstoppable ones were saves by other goalies at times.  Many "Markstrom unstoppable" goals.  I saw a lot of far post shots from the circle.  Or Markstrom playing too deep.

 

I am concerned that our best current backup changed.  His glove was getting beat a lot.  His stance in the crease (deep and down) left some holes.  

 

I am also concerned that we bring in Wolf into the coaching that we have.  There is no reason why we can't replace the goalie coach.  There isn't some great success that we can lean on.

[jjgallow]

10 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I don't hear anyone questioning our goalie coaching.

 

This present bunch of goalie coaches ... most have a long history of ineptness of being able to help any of our goalies.

 

What they get a pass because we have one top goaltending prospect in the system?

 

 

 

I need to apologise as criticism is kind of my job.

 

Honestly I kind of just gave up.

 

The problem with going after specific coaches, and ...if you go back, I did a lot of this on here with goaltending coaches, is it's...you know...almost ...personal.    They have at least one goalie coach who is a great person, but not a great goalie coach.   They brought in more, I'm not sure if the idea was for them to fill in gaps, or what...but clearly what they are doing is not working, and has not worked since Kipper.    At least.  And Kipper didn't really need much of this, he came to us developed.   So , would not be wrong to say it's never worked in modern times.

 

Your two top NHL goalies both slumping at the same time, one experienced and the other entering their prime, you should get some kind of spark at least.  Nothing.  

 

But even for me, it's a bit hard to just, you know. attack individuals.   When the problem is, larger than just them.  

 

So I focus on the GM and higher.   That's who's responsible for how our goalies are coached.  Or not coached.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

So I focus on the GM and higher.   That's who's responsible for how our goalies are coached.  Or not coached.

 

I get the other part of your argument, but what does the GM and higher have to do with coaching or not coaching goalies?  You bring in coaches because they are hiring decisions made either by the coach or without that, based on the record or reputation/results of the goalie coach.  Once they are here, the head coach has the final say, not the GM.  Much like Sutter can do what he wants, the goalie coach doesn't answer to the GM until the end of the year, or when they fire the lot.

 

Nobody was telling Mike Smith how to play, but maybe Labarbara decided that something needed to change with Markstrom after the weak glove in the playoffs.  I don't know.  He was a good (perhaps) development coach for junior or U18 and U20's.  

[robrob74]

16 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get the other part of your argument, but what does the GM and higher have to do with coaching or not coaching goalies?  You bring in coaches because they are hiring decisions made either by the coach or without that, based on the record or reputation/results of the goalie coach.  Once they are here, the head coach has the final say, not the GM.  Much like Sutter can do what he wants, the goalie coach doesn't answer to the GM until the end of the year, or when they fire the lot.

 

Nobody was telling Mike Smith how to play, but maybe Labarbara decided that something needed to change with Markstrom after the weak glove in the playoffs.  I don't know.  He was a good (perhaps) development coach for junior or U18 and U20's.  

I think that's JJ's way of saying the goalie coaches aren't the problem, the goalies are. He thinks Markstrom is old and Vladar is ok entering his prime, not a starter, just a backup. The coaches can only work with what they have and the GM built the team with these two in net...

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get the other part of your argument, but what does the GM and higher have to do with coaching or not coaching goalies?  You bring in coaches because they are hiring decisions made either by the coach or without that, based on the record or reputation/results of the goalie coach.  Once they are here, the head coach has the final say, not the GM.  Much like Sutter can do what he wants, the goalie coach doesn't answer to the GM until the end of the year, or when they fire the lot.

 

Nobody was telling Mike Smith how to play, but maybe Labarbara decided that something needed to change with Markstrom after the weak glove in the playoffs.  I don't know.  He was a good (perhaps) development coach for junior or U18 and U20's.  

 

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I think that's JJ's way of saying the goalie coaches aren't the problem, the goalies are. He thinks Markstrom is old and Vladar is ok entering his prime, not a starter, just a backup. The coaches can only work with what they have and the GM built the team with these two in net...

 

I am saying that the GM decides who coaches the goalies, and the GM decides who the goalies are.

 

My only other alternative is just starting an "I told you so thread" , which I'm sure would be super well received by all.  Nonstop likes from @cross16.  I could always balance that by changing my profile picture to Ortio.

 

I did Not like the Markstrom acquisition and I Hated.. absolutely hated...the contract.

      He was...never that good.  and the contract was a nightmare.

          Had lots of fights on here about it. 
            In the end, he did have that one hot season.  Admittedly to my surprise.

           But was it worth our currrent death sentence?  That would be a no and that was the GM.
         We had options to pick up guys like Sarros and others that are:

         Actually contributing to their clubs right now.

                            "far too risky" said everyone as we:

                              boat-anchored ourselves for a half decade to a not very good starter.
               But BT has always tried to find "quick fixes", especially goaltending:

                              as if the next 6 years for us don't exist.

              GM.

 

I hated the Vladar acquistion, and I liked Vladar, but I felt it would impede our prospects.  Not just Wolf, others too.
            The Flames have a habit of acquiring barely-NHL goalies and hoping they pull a  Kipper at the age of 26.
               Yeah.  It is cool what happened with Kipper but that is NOT a plan.

              PIcking up 3 great goalie prospects and giving them NHL time.

              Would have been a plan, and we'd be in the playoffs right now.

           GM.

 

Our coach:   Our goaltending coach is bad.  He is.  He is bad.  I have gone off about it here, I don't like attacking him, and I'm kinda done with it, it's not enjoyable for me to write about or think about anymore.   Anyone can see it.
   I believe even BT sees it.   In fact, I believe he tried, and failed, to fix it.

    The reason he failed, again, was he tried to do another "quick fix" at the coaching level, avoiding what really needed to be done.

    GM.

 

I blame GM, becuase it's the GM.    And if it's not, it's the owners.
           I'm not interested in attacking some really nice, great person for being asked to coach goalies when he's not a great goalie coach.

          I'm not interested in attacking Markstrom for accepting mountains of cash in his mid 30's.  Not his fault.

          I'm not interested in attacking Vladar for doing the very best he can with the skiills that he has in an organization that is not very good with helping to develop those skills.

 

It's none of their fault.  I already know the typical responses to this:

      "Hindsight is 20/20",   "Wasn't BT's decision", "Markstrom is just in a slump", etc.

 

Results are in gents.    I'm just saying, there's a lot of attacking goalies and players in this forum right now, I know it's an attempt to uphold hope.    But the best way to maintain hope imho is to fix the actual problem.  That's how you get real light at the end of the tunnel.   Attacking the goalie coaches is totally valid but also totally futile.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

 

I am saying that the GM decides who coaches the goalies, and the GM decides who the goalies are.

 

My only other alternative is just starting an "I told you so thread" , which I'm sure would be super well received by all.  Nonstop likes from @cross16.  I could always balance that by changing my profile picture to Ortio.

 

I did Not like the Markstrom acquisition and I Hated.. absolutely hated...the contract.

      He was...never that good.  and the contract was a nightmare.

          Had lots of fights on here about it. 
            In the end, he did have that one hot season.  Admittedly to my surprise.

           But was it worth our currrent death sentence?  That would be a no and that was the GM.
         We had options to pick up guys like Sarros and others that are:

         Actually contributing to their clubs right now.

                            "far too risky" said everyone as we:

                              boat-anchored ourselves for a half decade to a not very good starter.
               But BT has always tried to find "quick fixes", especially goaltending:

                              as if the next 6 years for us don't exist.

              GM.

 

I hated the Vladar acquistion, and I liked Vladar, but I felt it would impede our prospects.  Not just Wolf, others too.
            The Flames have a habit of acquiring barely-NHL goalies and hoping they pull a  Kipper at the age of 26.
               Yeah.  It is cool what happened with Kipper but that is NOT a plan.

              PIcking up 3 great goalie prospects and giving them NHL time.

              Would have been a plan, and we'd be in the playoffs right now.

           GM.

 

Our coach:   Our goaltending coach is bad.  He is.  He is bad.  I have gone off about it here, I don't like attacking him, and I'm kinda done with it, it's not enjoyable for me to write about or think about anymore.   Anyone can see it.
   I believe even BT sees it.   In fact, I believe he tried, and failed, to fix it.

    The reason he failed, again, was he tried to do another "quick fix" at the coaching level, avoiding what really needed to be done.

    GM.

 

I blame GM, becuase it's the GM.    And if it's not, it's the owners.
           I'm not interested in attacking some really nice, great person for being asked to coach goalies when he's not a great goalie coach.

          I'm not interested in attacking Markstrom for accepting mountains of cash in his mid 30's.  Not his fault.

          I'm not interested in attacking Vladar for doing the very best he can with the skiills that he has in an organization that is not very good with helping to develop those skills.

 

It's none of their fault.  I already know the typical responses to this:

      "Hindsight is 20/20",   "Wasn't BT's decision", "Markstrom is just in a slump", etc.

 

Results are in gents.    I'm just saying, there's a lot of attacking goalies and players in this forum right now, I know it's an attempt to uphold hope.    But the best way to maintain hope imho is to fix the actual problem.  That's how you get real light at the end of the tunnel.   Attacking the goalie coaches is totally valid but also totally futile.

haven't we had Markstrom for 3 seasons now? 
 

he's had 2 bad seasons out of 3. Everyone gives him a break for the Covid season. 
 

looking at his numbers, he's basically a league average goalie. Sometimes slightly over. Last year was not a norm for him. 

[bombcomputers]

15 hours ago, conundrumed said:

A lot was written about how awesome they are last year. Notsomuch this year. Seems like some mechanics issues, not getting square, not playing at the top of the crease. Then there's the issue of dmen that aren't very good harassing guys in front of the net doesn't help. 

They have more than enough evidence on tape I would think, but goals keep coming the same way or no one is tieing up sticks on rebounds. Kinda why I was hoping we'd trade for Maatta because it feels like how to defend your net without taking penalties is a lost art. Or take the penalty vs a certain goal.

But Detroit extended him prior to tdl so he became off the table. I think puck-moving dmen have become more value than actual defencemen so this is where it ends up maybe. Fans tend to cheer the points and overlook D atrocity.

Case in point, Erik Karlsson and his ungodly number of even strength goals against. Doesn't seem to matter. He could win the Norris by being the anti-christ of defencemen. Not even a remote possibility he should win it.

My thoughts too. There's got to be a way (I know there is) for the D to knock a guy in front of the net without bloody cross checking him. 

That's what I said too about 'good penalties'. Has everyone lost that part of their hockey vocabulary and intellect? 

This infactuation with scoring while ignoring good defense is flippin stupid. That kind of hockey, and not jyst the flames but all around the league, is not worth the millions the players are being paid. I can watch similar foolishness at the recreational level or at a game of shinny. I don't like what I'm seeing in 'today's game'. 

[LouCifer]

Interesting points on all accounts. I will share that I’ve held management positions at many different businesses, organizations, and associations, and in each and every one of them I never had complete autonomy to do as I saw fit. There are always marching orders, policies, and politics that confine and restrict you to play within the parameters of ownership. So, why stop short of pointing the finger at the GM? There’s been 1 constant throughout the consistent mediocrity that is the flames. Do we honestly believe the Sutter hire was BT? Do we truly believe that BT doesn’t require a rubber stamp of approval prior to every team decision? Word is that an extension offer has been made to BT, and that he is the one considering whether or not to accept returning to the flames. Odd behavior from BT, no? I think the evidence points to multiple rifts in the organization from player-level to coaches, coaches to GM, and GM to ownership. I’d wager that 💩 rolls downhill, and that the hill goes higher than BT. 
 

edit. I should comment on the goaltending since that’s the title of the thread. 
 

We’ve all been waiting for the next kipper. The next Vernon.  The next “messiah” in goal, if you will. I never expected Markstrom to reach that level, but I was happy to see the turnstile of goalies from Ramo to Hiller to Toskala to Smith stop with someone I believed had more consistency. Well, who is Markstrom after all? Is he the guy we saw last season, or the guy we saw during COVID and this season? Hard to say. But, if you look at our player contracts, we’ve got many expiring at the end of next season and I think it’s a prime opportunity to go younger. I’m of the opinion to trade Markstrom and go with Vladar and Wolf in net. 

[bombcomputers]

18 hours ago, LouCifer said:

Interesting points on all accounts. I will share that I’ve held management positions at many different businesses, organizations, and associations, and in each and every one of them I never had complete autonomy to do as I saw fit. There are always marching orders, policies, and politics that confine and restrict you to play within the parameters of ownership. So, why stop short of pointing the finger at the GM? There’s been 1 constant throughout the consistent mediocrity that is the flames. Do we honestly believe the Sutter hire was BT? Do we truly believe that BT doesn’t require a rubber stamp of approval prior to every team decision? Word is that an extension offer has been made to BT, and that he is the one considering whether or not to accept returning to the flames. Odd behavior from BT, no? I think the evidence points to multiple rifts in the organization from player-level to coaches, coaches to GM, and GM to ownership. I’d wager that 💩 rolls downhill, and that the hill goes higher than BT. 
 

edit. I should comment on the goaltending since that’s the title of the thread. 
 

We’ve all been waiting for the next kipper. The next Vernon.  The next “messiah” in goal, if you will. I never expected Markstrom to reach that level, but I was happy to see the turnstile of goalies from Ramo to Hiller to Toskala to Smith stop with someone I believed had more consistency. Well, who is Markstrom after all? Is he the guy we saw last season, or the guy we saw during COVID and this season? Hard to say. But, if you look at our player contracts, we’ve got many expiring at the end of next season and I think it’s a prime opportunity to go younger. I’m of the opinion to trade Markstrom and go with Vladar and Wolf in net. 

Go with Vladar and Wolfe, period. 

[robrob74]

19 hours ago, bombcomputers said:

My thoughts too. There's got to be a way (I know there is) for the D to knock a guy in front of the net without bloody cross checking him. 

That's what I said too about 'good penalties'. Has everyone lost that part of their hockey vocabulary and intellect? 

This infactuation with scoring while ignoring good defense is flippin stupid. That kind of hockey, and not jyst the flames but all around the league, is not worth the millions the players are being paid. I can watch similar foolishness at the recreational level or at a game of shinny. I don't like what I'm seeing in 'today's game'. 

I think Sarich talks about it all the time, Warrener too, about the change in ways defenders defend. 
 

im with you. It seems that every team but us tend to take liberties and nearly almost always gets away with it. There aren't enough prices paid. It was what I liked about Gudbranson. Maybe Zadorov is a bit like that, but we need another.

[bombcomputers]

19 hours ago, bombcomputers said:

My thoughts too. There's got to be a way (I know there is) for the D to knock a guy in front of the net without bloody cross checking him. 

That's what I said too about 'good penalties'. Has everyone lost that part of their hockey vocabulary and intellect? 

This infactuation with scoring while ignoring good defense is flippin stupid. That kind of hockey, and not jyst the flames but all around the league, is not worth the millions the players are being paid. I can watch similar foolishness at the recreational level or at a game of shinny. I don't like what I'm seeing in 'today's game'. 

I forgot to comment on the inability of the players to even tie up a stick in front of the net. conundrumed, you were seeing all the things I was seeing. Stupid hockey, lacking the basic fundamentals we all learned about the game. 

I say bring center ice and the neutral zone back. There is more to hockey than speed. Next we'll see the goalies using tennis rackets. 

[bombcomputers]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

I think Sarich talks about it all the time, Warrener too, about the change in ways defenders defend. 
 

im with you. It seems that every team but us tend to take liberties and nearly almost always gets away with it. There aren't enough prices paid. It was what I liked about Gudbranson. Maybe Zadorov is a bit like that, but we need another.

Here here! I was sad to see Gudbranson go. He dished things out, and he was a fine scrapper. Maybe he had more to do with Markstrom's shutouts than has been realized.

I have heard Sarich talk like that too. Fine analyst in my opinion. I am growing sick of Kelly Rhudey's color content. He's becoming a wussy. I suppose he likes the IIHF 'no screening the goalie' rule. BOGUS!! 

 

Stetcher isn't that big but does he ever play big. Nice addition to my team. 

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, bombcomputers said:

I forgot to comment on the inability of the players to even tie up a stick in front of the net. conundrumed, you were seeing all the things I was seeing. Stupid hockey, lacking the basic fundamentals we all learned about the game. 

I say bring center ice and the neutral zone back. There is more to hockey than speed. Next we'll see the goalies using tennis rackets. 

 

So, 75% of the goals were scored outside the slot in my estimation.

You can blame not clearing out the crease on some of those goals (deflections/screens).

But how many goals from the circles have been clear looks for the goalie(s).

Goaltending sucked this year.

Last year we had Guddy to clear out the front.

He was on the ice for 1/4 of the total ice time of the D.

Our PK was top 10 this year, so I think that's implying we did a good job there.

[tmac70]

Wanted to comment on this a while back. With Wolfe, he has been great at every level, and he is one of the better prospects we have. However, we should proceed with caution here.  The kid is good been lighting the AHL up but he may struggle at the NHL level. He has holes and that will get exposed very quickly with NHL players. Let him slowly adapt and adjust before tossing him 3 miles out in the ocean hoping he can swim to shore. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

Wanted to comment on this a while back. With Wolfe, he has been great at every level, and he is one of the better prospects we have. However, we should proceed with caution here.  The kid is good been lighting the AHL up but he may struggle at the NHL level. He has holes and that will get exposed very quickly with NHL players. Let him slowly adapt and adjust before tossing him 3 miles out in the ocean hoping he can swim to shore. 

 

I am really liking your posts lately.   This probably isn't a good thing for you lol

 

He does have holes.    This could turn into an Ortio situation extremely quickly.   

 

I'm not saying it will, and I'm not saying I don't like Wolf.  He is my favorite flames prospect right now.   And he has grown on me.   Despite everyone's amnesia, there was a time that Ortio was Extremely popular here, as much as Wolf or more.  And Ortio had a better frame too.   And about 4-5 other goalies of prominence inbetween these two.

 

all were killed off.

 

It's not Wolf I don't trust (his size is a bit of a thing, but not enough to stop him).  

 

It's the Flames I don't trust.  In this regard.

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I am really liking your posts lately.   This probably isn't a good thing for you lol

 

He does have holes.    This could turn into an Ortio situation extremely quickly.   

 

I'm not saying it will, and I'm not saying I don't like Wolf.  He is my favorite flames prospect right now.   And he has grown on me.   Despite everyone's amnesia, there was a time that Ortio was Extremely popular here, as much as Wolf or more.  And Ortio had a better frame too.   And about 4-5 other goalies of prominence inbetween these two.

 

all were killed off.

 

It's not Wolf I don't trust (his size is a bit of a thing, but not enough to stop him).  

 

It's the Flames I don't trust.  In this regard.

I am with u man. I watch the Wranglers Wolf has a ton of positives but I would just like to see expectations tempered a bit with him. This organization has a great record for ruining prospects he could be a great goaltender for us. 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, tmac70 said:

Wanted to comment on this a while back. With Wolfe, he has been great at every level, and he is one of the better prospects we have. However, we should proceed with caution here.  The kid is good been lighting the AHL up but he may struggle at the NHL level. He has holes and that will get exposed very quickly with NHL players. Let him slowly adapt and adjust before tossing him 3 miles out in the ocean hoping he can swim to shore. 

 

Let him start about 25-games next season in a backup role.  It's the perfect way to both ease him into the NHL plus shelter/mentor him under a veteran like Markstrom.

[oldschoolplayer]

4 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I am with u man. I watch the Wranglers Wolf has a ton of positives but I would just like to see expectations tempered a bit with him. This organization has a great record for ruining prospects he could be a great goaltender for us. 

I don't trust this organization to do anything. They are keystone cops. BT should never have hired those two guys who didn't want to play Sutter's game. Those two guys knew they were coming to Sutter's style of play. What were they doing signing up here? I hope Sutter goes to Arizona and gets a couple more cups. 

I like what you two guts are saying about hardening Wolfe up a bit before leaving him in the elements. Those few young guys were the highlight of the season. Toffoli and Backland and others played real well too. This team tear down is a knee jerk pxss off. I'm losing my faith in this administration, for the first time since the flames came to Cowtown.