Realistic (and unrealistic) Trades - 2024 Edition

[JTech780]

I am big fan of Sharangovich and was really excited when we got him in return for Toffoli, that being said you don't shell out lots of money for wingers, for centers and defense yes, maybe for a goalie, but I think that is debateable, but wingers should be pretty low on the list. 

[MP5029]

Ok so here’s a new rumor…

 

Huby to Chi for Jones

 

dose this make sense for either team?

[JTech780]

Just now, MP5029 said:

Ok so here’s a new rumor…

 

Huby to Chi for Jones

 

dose this make sense for either team?

Interesting, where did this rumour come from?

 

It would save Calgary a million in cap space and a year on the deal.  
 

Would either player be willing to waive their NMC to go to the other team?

 

I have never been a huge fan of Jones, he has the physical tools but not the hockey IQ. I think Huberdeau has the better chance to regain his form, especially if you put him on a line with Bedard.

[sak22]

12 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Interesting, where did this rumour come from?

 

It would save Calgary a million in cap space and a year on the deal.  
 

Would either player be willing to waive their NMC to go to the other team?

 

I have never been a huge fan of Jones, he has the physical tools but not the hockey IQ. I think Huberdeau has the better chance to regain his form, especially if you put him on a line with Bedard.

I think Huberdeau would, Jones I doubt it.

[MP5029]

45 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Interesting, where did this rumour come from?

 

It would save Calgary a million in cap space and a year on the deal.  
 

Would either player be willing to waive their NMC to go to the other team?

 

I have never been a huge fan of Jones, he has the physical tools but not the hockey IQ. I think Huberdeau has the better chance to regain his form, especially if you put him on a line with Bedard.

One of the sports writers…can’t recall where SN? Posted to Facebook from their site I think!?

 

I agree also Jones is a year younger too.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, MP5029 said:

One of the sports writers…can’t recall where SN? Posted to Facebook from their site I think!?

 

I agree also Jones is a year younger too.

think it was Hockey News? 

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, JTech780 said:

Interesting, where did this rumour come from?

 

It would save Calgary a million in cap space and a year on the deal.  
 

Would either player be willing to waive their NMC to go to the other team?

 

I have never been a huge fan of Jones, he has the physical tools but not the hockey IQ. I think Huberdeau has the better chance to regain his form, especially if you put him on a line with Bedard.

 

can we have Rinzel and Commesco instead?

[MP5029]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

can we have Rinzel and Commesco instead?

Lol prob not for Huby 

[conundrumed]

16 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

That's why I'm not a fan of extending Sharongovich, Kuzmenko, Mange, etc.  those are not core players.  They are support players.  Pump up their stats on their contract years and sell to the highest bidder at the TDL.  This is how small market teams need to conduct business.  Buy low sell high.  Only lock up core super stars.

Why would you lump him in with those 2? First off, that was his 25yo season, so you have to assume that he's a year or 2 away from hitting his prime years. That alone separates him from those 2.

You are surmising that he's not a core player, but stating it as fact. Wingers, particularly finishers, are core players all over the league. He's shown he can be a difference-maker without being a liability (Kuzmenko).

Are you sure this roster is pumping his stats, and it's not actually him doing that?

PKs, PPs, 85mph accurate wrister, prefers up-tempo, the best shootout guy.

Are you absolutely certain that these aren't the types of qualities that we're looking for?

[jjgallow]

36 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Why would you lump him in with those 2? First off, that was his 25yo season, so you have to assume that he's a year or 2 away from hitting his prime years. That alone separates him from those 2.

You are surmising that he's not a core player, but stating it as fact. Wingers, particularly finishers, are core players all over the league. He's shown he can be a difference-maker without being a liability (Kuzmenko).

Are you sure this roster is pumping his stats, and it's not actually him doing that?

PKs, PPs, 85mph accurate wrister, prefers up-tempo, the best shootout guy.

Are you absolutely certain that these aren't the types of qualities that we're looking for?

 

I think Sharangovich adds a lot, both ways.      I think we benefit from Kozmenko too actually, even if he's one-dimensional, it's a dimension we lack.

 

My reasons for putting them up for sale are simply that Sharangovich, as young as he is, won't be in his prime the next time it matters for us.    I'd say keep him as a mentor but his value is too high.   Give him another season with big minutes and he'll be a 1st rounder at the TDL, easy.  Maybe more.   But take it.   Not because of him, because of us.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Lol prob not for Huby 

 

then I wouldn't do deal imho, or I would modify it.

 

Point is, there are lots of trades to be had for meaningful prospects.      We should be looking for those, imho, rather than pointless veteran swaps.   If you don't have the pieces, you don't have the pieces.    You either create a void somewhere to fill a gap somewhere else (like this proposal), or you give up future and achieve short term mediocrity (last decade or so), or you acquire future pieces.     We should always be acquiring future pieces.

[MP5029]

9 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

then I wouldn't do deal imho, or I would modify it.

 

Point is, there are lots of trades to be had for meaningful prospects.      We should be looking for those, imho, rather than pointless veteran swaps.   If you don't have the pieces, you don't have the pieces.    You either create a void somewhere to fill a gap somewhere else (like this proposal), or you give up future and achieve short term mediocrity (last decade or so), or you acquire future pieces.     We should always be acquiring future pieces.

Well I get where you’re coming from, however, Jones is a Vet D which we have a need for.  He’s a year younger, a year less on his contract and about 1 mil per cheaper. 
 

all These factors line up as positive improvements 

[conundrumed]

11 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I think Sharangovich adds a lot, both ways.      I think we benefit from Kozmenko too actually, even if he's one-dimensional, it's a dimension we lack.

 

My reasons for putting them up for sale are simply that Sharangovich, as young as he is, won't be in his prime the next time it matters for us.    I'd say keep him as a mentor but his value is too high.   Give him another season with big minutes and he'll be a 1st rounder at the TDL, easy.  Maybe more.   But take it.   Not because of him, because of us.

He fits Conroy's description of a fast team. Watching him in preseason I could see off of the hop that he doesn't hesitate and stagnate the puck. The rest of us do that, though. I figured he would have a tough start trying to slow his game down to fit our game. But we want to be more like how he wants to play than how we play.

I say we have to wait. See if we can turn to a fast game slowly. If we take 3-4 years, he'll only be better then regardless. Most vets at 30 have refined their game to know the space and timing a lot better.

A TDL 1st rder is always a late one, so it's kind of whatevs.

All I'm suggesting is we pull back the reins and see how things play out before worrying what we can get for whom. Keep cycling through players and you're a team with no identity. Same endless trap that we need to escape.

[JTech780]

So to add a wrinkle to the Necas story, his Dad said in an interview that he has asked for a trade. So he might be looking for a place where he can get more opportunities.

[jjgallow]

56 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Well I get where you’re coming from, however, Jones is a Vet D which we have a need for.  He’s a year younger, a year less on his contract and about 1 mil per cheaper. 
 

all These factors line up as positive improvements 

 

If you are thinking near-term, yes.  But, that means you're ruling out a cup, basically.  If you are thinking next 10 years....do we have a need for lower picks?

and do we have a need for less minutes to develop our D prospects?

 

imho, we should be loaded up with youth at D, give them a chance, develop them, keep the good ones.

[jjgallow]

50 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

He fits Conroy's description of a fast team. Watching him in preseason I could see off of the hop that he doesn't hesitate and stagnate the puck. The rest of us do that, though. I figured he would have a tough start trying to slow his game down to fit our game. But we want to be more like how he wants to play than how we play.

I say we have to wait. See if we can turn to a fast game slowly. If we take 3-4 years, he'll only be better then regardless. Most vets at 30 have refined their game to know the space and timing a lot better.

A TDL 1st rder is always a late one, so it's kind of whatevs.

All I'm suggesting is we pull back the reins and see how things play out before worrying what we can get for whom. Keep cycling through players and you're a team with no identity. Same endless trap that we need to escape.

 

I get what you're saying and agree with all of it, except for the one bolded line.  those add up.  and if he keeps trending, it might be more than just one.

 

But if you want to trade him for 100 6th rounders at tdl I am cool with that too 😅

[cberg]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

 

I think Sharangovich adds a lot, both ways.      I think we benefit from Kozmenko too actually, even if he's one-dimensional, it's a dimension we lack.

 

My reasons for putting them up for sale are simply that Sharangovich, as young as he is, won't be in his prime the next time it matters for us.    I'd say keep him as a mentor but his value is too high.   Give him another season with big minutes and he'll be a 1st rounder at the TDL, easy.  Maybe more.   But take it.   Not because of him, because of us.

Although anyone can be traded for the right price, I’d be keeping both Sharangovich and Kuzmenko as they have both proven themselves and we need what they offer.  On paper we can make a plan that says “strong and rising Fall 2027” and focus everything on that, but those plans rarely work out.  We can have that plan, but also need to build/retain great and effective players while we slowly assemble a winning team.  One or two amazing draft picks, a lottery win or just effective trading/use of cap space can change everything.  

[jjgallow]

3 minutes ago, cberg said:

Although anyone can be traded for the right price, I’d be keeping both Sharangovich and Kuzmenko as they have both proven themselves and we need what they offer.  On paper we can make a plan that says “strong and rising Fall 2027” and focus everything on that, but those plans rarely work out.  We can have that plan, but also need to build/retain great and effective players while we slowly assemble a winning team.  One or two amazing draft picks, a lottery win or just effective trading/use of cap space can change everything.  

 

you're right.  but....i also think, a sort of fear-based thinking has been instilled in here.

 

like....the kind of thinking where if anything goes good, it's a miracle and we should hold on for dear life.

 

It's the kind of thinking that comes from years of lack of player development.    We got those Sharangovich and Kuzmenko cheap.  Then there's this fear...."we can't flip them, they fill a need"....and then they get old, and "we have to sign them, they fill a need" and then they leave, and "we have to sign X old player to too much money, because they fill a need".

 

None of them fill any needs if you don't have a long term plan because you will Never get anywhere close the cup, ever.

 

So we saved both of their careers giving them a fresh start.   Sweet.   I'm not saying we Have to flip them for Way more at TDL.   but I am saying, we shouldn't be afraid to (not for cheap, I agree on that).

 

So like who cares?   We pick up 4 more guys who either:

1.  Need a chance
2.  are coming up in our development system
3.  Need a second chance with a new team, like these guys did

 

Keep the guys who save their careers, drop the guys who don't.   Sharangovich and Kozmenko are not One-Time-Things.   They are what happens to good organizations who do smart things.

 

and they can do them more than once.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

So to add a wrinkle to the Necas story, his Dad said in an interview that he has asked for a trade. So he might be looking for a place where he can get more opportunities.

 

Maybe I am one of the few that would like this player.  Assuming he can play C.  I thought that Sharky was good at C, but he had a bit of a time adjusting to the increased responsibilities.  I don't know if we ever had the perfect fit for that line on RW, though.  

 

Let's assume for a moment that we could make a deal with CAR using Mangiapane.  We could use him on the wing to start with, but transition him to C.  Perhaps we use him with the kids and we move Kadri to the Huberdeau line, and move Sharky over to RW on the top line.

 

Huberdeau-Kadri-Sharky

Zary-Necas-Kuzmenko

Coleman-Backlund-Pospisil

Pelletier-Rooney(Klapka)-Coronato

 

I would say that the top 9 has interchangeable parts.  

 

Not the ideal lineup, but we can structure the line (if we want) to build up the young guys.

Necas gives us an additional C, and leaves Zary to do that voodoo he does, so well.  

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Why would you lump him in with those 2? First off, that was his 25yo season, so you have to assume that he's a year or 2 away from hitting his prime years. That alone separates him from those 2.

You are surmising that he's not a core player, but stating it as fact. Wingers, particularly finishers, are core players all over the league. He's shown he can be a difference-maker without being a liability (Kuzmenko).

Are you sure this roster is pumping his stats, and it's not actually him doing that?

PKs, PPs, 85mph accurate wrister, prefers up-tempo, the best shootout guy.

Are you absolutely certain that these aren't the types of qualities that we're looking for?

 

Sharangovich is not core.  He's a very good player and like you said, his prime is in a year or two.  And so, sell at the top.  Don't pay at the top.  Think of what we can get in return moving a 30-G player at the TDL.  We should get something good.

 

Bottom line is, rebuild.  Get the picks and prospects.  Peak at the same time.

[sak22]

9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Sharangovich is not core.  He's a very good player and like you said, his prime is in a year or two.  And so, sell at the top.  Don't pay at the top.  Think of what we can get in return moving a 30-G player at the TDL.  We should get something good.

 

Bottom line is, rebuild.  Get the picks and prospects.  Peak at the same time.

Another Hanifin return probably.

[420since1974]

Personally, I'd trade both Mangiapane and Kuzmenko no later than next season's TDL.

They will both be 30 when they are up for their next contracts and collectively are currently costing the Flames $11.3M.

Sharangovich will only be 26 when his current contract expires and Calgary should have plenty of Cap Space to offer him a contract commensurate to his production at that time.

[Thebrewcrew]

This trade never made sense. Now you lose the player after 9 games.

 

Think it’s fair to question the pro scouting department on this one.

 

Not the end of the world, but it’s still pretty poor asset management. 

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

3 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

This trade never made sense. Now you lose the player after 9 games.

 

Think it’s fair to question the pro scouting department on this one.

 

Not the end of the world, but it’s still pretty poor asset management. 

I think he's still RFA so the Flames could/would hold his rights til hes 27?  Not sure how or why it would be done.

[Thebrewcrew]

16 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I think he's still RFA so the Flames could/would hold his rights til hes 27?  Not sure how or why it would be done.

Yes that is true.

 

They may issue a QO. I think it’s a case for Okhotiuk where he can go home and make more money. In the NHL he’s likely making his QO, or league minimum.

 

I don’t think we see him back in NA, unless his game takes significant strides.